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Sadly I don't think the opposition have enough seats to override Duda's veto.
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Oct 15, 2023 20:11
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At least the Left has more votes than Konfederacja, which I find encouraging, although that's one of these things that might very well shift from exit polls to the actual vote counts
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Oct 15, 2023 20:11
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I'm currently visiting Poland and it seems like you guys have something going on?
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Oct 15, 2023 20:11
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Left is pretty much dead, KO doesn't even need them in coalition anymore seeing how Trzecia Droga has over 2x votes. At least Konfederacja lost too.
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Oct 15, 2023 20:13
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Residency Evil posted:I'm currently visiting Poland and it seems like you guys have something going on? Not much, just general elections  .
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Oct 15, 2023 20:15
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Residency Evil posted:I'm currently visiting Poland and it seems like you guys have something going on? Apparently a fire sale on pistachios.
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Oct 15, 2023 20:16
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Congratulations. It appears that PiS has lost their majority.
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Oct 15, 2023 20:20
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Rest in PiS
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Oct 15, 2023 20:27
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Bemused Observer posted:Edit: also, I struggle to imagine what kind of economic policy a KO/TD/Lewica government could possibly agree on. They are probably going to ditch Lewica, KO and TD alone have majority
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Oct 15, 2023 20:30
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Szarrukin posted:They are probably going to ditch Lewica, KO and TD alone have majority Not quite. You need 231 mandates. They will lack like 10 of them so and actually they should work together.
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Oct 15, 2023 20:32
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Yep, according to the exit polls the only possible configuration that gets a majority is KO+TD+Left. Though obviously this could shift in the actual results given different districts and so on Edit: actually Left is likely to get hosed in the count because their support is concentrated in the most populous districts where voting power is low.
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Oct 15, 2023 20:39
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Yeah, if KO+TD get the 230+ on their own, then on the one hand it sucks for the Left, but on the other these two parties probably *could* sustain a government (not that they'd be able to push trough much legislation, considering who controls the presidential veto and the constitutional tribunal).
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Oct 15, 2023 20:46
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In the long run it'd probably be healthier for the Left to spend a couple years in opposition to a center-right governmenr rather than forever chained to the libs out of sheer enforced anti-PiS unity... but in more practical terms I'd greatly prefer it if a hypothetical Tusk government has some kind of checks keeping it from going full bore neoliberal.
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Oct 15, 2023 21:18
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All I want is for Czarnek to get banned from setting foot within 1000m of a school or school administration institutions and to never see Błaszczak's ugly mug again
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Oct 15, 2023 21:37
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I want to see Ziobro in prison, probably just a dream though
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Oct 15, 2023 21:58
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TVP is on severe copium right now, they just mentioned the idea of PiS and Lewica coalition. xD
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Oct 15, 2023 22:07
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TVP right now.
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Oct 15, 2023 22:24
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^- lol.
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Oct 15, 2023 22:34
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72.9% voting population is impressive by any standard. Also, the referendum is dead at 40% opting to even participate.
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Oct 15, 2023 22:38
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Paladinus posted:TVP right now. Lol "šukám"
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Oct 15, 2023 22:59
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It’s cool seeing all the Canadians/Americans of Polish decent on my social media feeds talking about how “Poland has fallen”. Meanwhile it’s been 100+ years since their ancestors arrived here and no one in their family has been back to Poland since before WW2.
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Oct 16, 2023 00:06
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plywood poles are loving worst.
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Oct 16, 2023 00:45
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Tentative goongrats, Poligoons? 
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Oct 16, 2023 02:32
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Rest in PiS
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Oct 16, 2023 02:35
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Time to take the PiS out of the government
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Oct 16, 2023 03:48
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Turns out PiS is not stored in the ballots
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Oct 16, 2023 07:06
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Tentative congrats to all Poland goons, it's nice to have some good news for a change It'll be interesting to see if the opposition will be able to make a meaningful start at getting rid of all the PiS stored in the judiciary and the police.
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Oct 16, 2023 08:04
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I wonder what’s gonna happen to TVP. Like surely it’s beyond salvaging now??
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Oct 16, 2023 08:09
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I don’t think PiS will concede that easy. They already grumbled in interviews they technically won and the president is obligated to give the task of forming the government to the party with the most votes. For PiS every day in power longer, even with a minority government unable to dk anything, is much better than being in opposition.
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Oct 16, 2023 08:58
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goblin week posted:I wonder what’s gonna happen to TVP. Like surely it’s beyond salvaging now?? TVP and Polska Press both. That’s going to be interesting to see
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Oct 16, 2023 08:59
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There will be no minority government as it requires actually being voted in by sejm. Also I hope very much that TVP CAN be salvaged because i dread to think about the media landscape without the public option. We used to have a passably bipartisan tv station and we can have it once again.
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Oct 16, 2023 09:08
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Wouldn't the new government just turn it into a propaganda organ for their side?
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Oct 16, 2023 11:05
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anilEhilated posted:Wouldn't the new government just turn it into a propaganda organ for their side? That would still be an improvement. State TV was never 100% unaligned, but there was always some degree of dignity to it, somewhat biased towards the owners but not outright inventing an alternate reality. PiS went full Orban/Putin with how shameless they subjugated the state media. But at the very least, if we assumed the new government will go "gently caress it, war has changed" and chose to be just as shameless with it (which they won't, it would be a massive, fundamental compromise of their "gently caress PiS" platform, both in substance and optics), it would still be better because it's a coalition of several parties, several of whom can and will be bratty about some issues. You either give some leeway for them to peddle their differing viewpoints, making it inherently more open and honest, or go full Subjugation Under God-Emperor Donald Tusk, which would very quickly antagonize coalition partners, who are all able to paralyze the government.
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Oct 16, 2023 11:21
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Not that the government will need much paralysing, considering the presidential veto and the constitutional tribunal. Speaking of which, I wonder what the hell they are going to do about the tribunal, because with the presidency you just wait two years (and can blame any lack of progress on the president), but the tribunal is probably compromised beyond repair now.
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Oct 16, 2023 12:10
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Mr. Apollo posted:It’s cool seeing all the Canadians/Americans of Polish decent on my social media feeds talking about how “Poland has fallen”. Meanwhile it’s been 100+ years since their ancestors arrived here and no one in their family has been back to Poland since before WW2. This flavor of chud is personally embarrassing to me, and I take so much pleasure in their unhappiness.
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Oct 16, 2023 12:59
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Bemused Observer posted:Not that the government will need much paralysing, considering the presidential veto and the constitutional tribunal. If they have any balls, they could brute force changes by claiming/reminding everyone that the nominations were illegal. Like PiS, just... do it, call them null and void and have security pack their things into a box. What helps is that they would generally have the backing of EU and the judiciary community (and, tbh, their own supporters at the peak of PiS-purging sentiment). Just get those lawyer friends to cook up some nice legal excuse so everyone can pretend this nullification is more rooted in rule of law. Just gotta strike iron while it's hot, keep the new nominations clean.
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Oct 16, 2023 13:08
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It's not that easy. Remember that the double seating crisis only actually affected three of fifteen judges, and the remaining twelve have been introduced by PiS without controversy. Even if you force through the three legal judges (whom the president is refusing to swear in, which may or may not be a real issue), PiS nominees are still likely to decide nearly all cases. After that, the next seats open up in December of next year (two), April 2025 (one), December 2025 (one), and June 2026 (one), at which point the non-PiS nominees will have a majority (although it is still likely that many cases will be decided by PiS nominees). One more seat opens in September of 2026, maybe you get one more in January of 2027 (very unlikely), and then you have to win another election. Pawłowicz and Piotrowicz will remain in their seats until December of 2028.
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Oct 16, 2023 13:29
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All cases ruled on by these three judges can be considered null and void. You could also make a case that cases where they weren’t directly ruling on could also be questioned, because they might have had were they chosen to. Not to mention, the head of the court is past her term limit, and that further invalidates things.
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Oct 16, 2023 13:34
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The question of how to approach the cases decided by the wrongly nominated judges is a giant can of worms that might create a fresh constitutional crisis all on its own, but I will say the reasoning of "but they could have ruled, if not for the fact that they weren't on the board for the case" seems extremely weaksauce to my non-lawyer brain. In any event, it does nothing to stop the remaining twelve PiS judges from revisiting the "tainted" cases and just upholding the original ruling.
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Oct 16, 2023 13:40
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Oh absolutely I agree that would be extreme and stretching things, but I’m ashamed to admit this is my post-PiS brain at work.
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Oct 16, 2023 13:54
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