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Private Witt posted:Is there any tangible evidence that it was an Israeli bomb or that hundreds of people died? I realize reporting can be very hard in Gaza. Fascinating line of questioning. Perhaps nobody died at all!
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Oct 18, 2023 07:28
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EDIT: link deleted because not sure if there was gore or black fire scorching. Definitely a mass casualty event, but hopefully 500+ was wrong. More evidence to support it being a failed rocket rather than targeted IDF munitions like a JDAM. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 18, 2023 07:31
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There seems to be a consensus among US based media to report, either through passive voice that an explosion happened without attribution or to uncritically repeat the IDF position that the rocket was fired by Palestinians to destroy their own hospital. Even with this consensus of US based media and government sources asserting this, while I don't have proof, I can say that I simply do not believe this narrative. It is as credible to me as the wallet inspector. It sounds like a lie. It smells like a lie. It is as simple as that. I do not believe them. Ordinarily I would trust these sources but they have over the past few days demonstrated a complete lack of empathy for the Palestinian side in the conflict. They have been like this for decades and public figures who challenge the consensus that favors Israel find their careers in shambles. Journalists who should know better have demonstrated a lack of due diligence, professional skepticism, and objectivity. They have irresponsibly reported Israeli claims in the headlines knowing full well that much of their audience are going to read "Pentagon officials say x happened" as "x happened." On this issue and quite a few others, US based media is not objective or credible. They have a horse in the race. It is a habitual and pervasive pattern that Noam Chomsky once called "manufacturing consent." No one comes in an tells them what to write. There is no smokey board room where they plot this out. This is a boring dystopia, routine. I am not someone who believes in conspiracy theories. No conspiracy is necessary. People with heterodox views that conflict with the interest of the owners of news media simply are not hired to be journalists for mainstream publications. Israel has a far right government that serves as constituency of far right settlers and religious zealots who have a worldview that is fundamentally incompatible with ideas like all people being created equal. They are a self selecting sample. Jewish people who are appalled by these views frequently do not move to Israel. Israelis who do not agree with these views are a shrinking minority though it is not easy to pack your bags and switch countries. These people wanted a better life, a safe place to live, but that is not what Israel is. It is a supremacist project, a colony and this attempt to reduce the population of Gaza to zero after some people broke out of the open air prison and killed people in retaliation for years of oppression are the fruits of a hateful ideology. It didn't have to be this way. This didn't have to happen. Jews and Muslims could have worked to share the region, created a state where Jewish people and Muslims and Christians had constitutional protections and a 1 person 1 vote democracy and still offered a homeland for Jewish people, just not one where they were the only voice that mattered. Nobody needed to lose their house. Nobody needed to die. There didn't have to be a Hamas. If I believed in God I would pray that he scoop up this land in his hand and teach his children be nice to each other. I find this whole situation to be depressing. I often think about what I would do if I lived in the same time as the holocaust and it is apparently this. Israels government is fully committed to genocide and my government and tax dollars are fully committed to helping. Any attempt to help the Palestinians is treated as treason and terrorist financing. Funny how money equals speech if you want to give to a superPAC but not to help Palestinians survive this. In the mean time journalists must reflect upon who's side they are on and if they are as committed to the truth as they were trained to be. They are bringing dishonor to their profession.
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Oct 18, 2023 07:32
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Rakosi posted:EDIT: link deleted because not sure if there was gore or black fire scorching. there's footage of piles of dead children and a ton of other horrible stuff. the aftermath is as bad as literally anything I've ever seen out of any other war in the last 20 years Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 07:34
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Brucolac posted:Fascinating line of questioning. Perhaps nobody died at all! Not saying that at all, I am just seeing pictures and I don't see how or where hundreds of people could have died. The impacted area is a parking lot that looks small in size, and surrounding buildings seem to barely have been damaged. Not going to post pictures in case there is NMS stuff in there, but they're out there now. There definitely seems to be at least a small crater where it happened.
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Oct 18, 2023 07:36
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Rakosi posted:EDIT: link deleted because not sure if there was gore or black fire scorching. How is that more evidence? You keep saying that about everything despite not really having a clue what you are talking about.
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Oct 18, 2023 07:39
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Rakosi posted:EDIT: link deleted because not sure if there was gore or black fire scorching. Unofficial counts are approaching a thousand dead. More reliably at the moment between 300-500 depending on which government agency you listen to. As already noted, there is no valid proof to exculpate the IDF. There is only the latest in a sequence of inconsistent and unreliable narratives to have come from them, and they have a storied history of denial, obfuscation, and falsifying evidence to cover for their more outrageous actions.
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Oct 18, 2023 07:40
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If this wasn't the IDF, and they wanted to have any credibility at all in this, they probably shouldn't have: - threatened to bomb a bunch of hospitals - threatened to bomb this hospital specifically - say that they did it - say that it was good actually - put out a bunch of fake videos/videos from the past as evidence that it wasn't then All they had to say was that this is bad/we're investigating. Given the above plus their history of lying about poo poo that looks bad for them, I dunno why anyone would take anything that comes from them into account with figuring out what happened here.
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Oct 18, 2023 07:46
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Rakosi posted:There is going to have to be far more responsible reporting going forward if the world is trying to avoid this conflict escalating; last night's events were immediately picked up by Al-Jazeera who started signal-boosting "ISRAEL BOMBS OVER 500 PEOPLE" in a big red chyron minutes after the first reports came out, and whose only source were Hamas. No facts were known at that time, and even though more info was coming out piece by piece that this may not be true, it spread around the world as a truth. There was a lot of protesting and rioting in the region and things escalated in Lebanon. The Iranian embassy started tweeting cryptic threats and then... It seems that the worst didn't happen and that the explosion was not as damaging as initial reports indicated. Certainly doesn't seem like it was a JDAM, and at this point, even the causality numbers of this event should probably be questioned. Hopefully, without the confusion of fire, smoke and night, we'll find out it was less people killed. The postmodernist/woke types who dominate these forums (and the mainstream in general) are apparently not interested in "responsibly" consuming content related to this conflict. They have already made up their minds a priori that, in the case of the large gorilla and the lemur locked away in a cage together, the smaller beast is unable to do any wrong or indeed any real damage even if it tried (as it does). Weakness and victimhood are high moral stature, and the gorilla exploits the lemur at every turn, for the inverse is impossible by nature. It's somewhat forgivable as a lapse in judgement, given the obvious emotional impact of the strong beating up on the weak. But as you said, if it becomes the basis of one's worldview, it only perpetually clouds judgement, and of course media outlets will be all too ready to feed into that core narrative. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 18, 2023 07:46
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Pvt. Parts posted:The postmodernist/woke types who dominate these forums (and the mainstream in general) are apparently not interested in "responsibly" consuming content related to this conflict. They have already made up their minds a priori that, in the case of the large gorilla and the lemur locked away in a cage together, the smaller beast is unable to do any wrong or indeed any real damage even if it tried (as it does). Weakness and victimhood are high moral stature, and the gorilla exploits the lemur at every turn, for the inverse is impossible by nature. It's somewhat forgivable as a lapse in judgement, given the obvious emotional impact of the strong beating up on the weak. But as you said, if it becomes the basis of one's worldview, it only perpetually clouds judgement, and of course media outlets will be all too ready to feed into that core narrative. What the hell is this post? Does Jordan Peterson have an SA account?
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Oct 18, 2023 07:50
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Kchama posted:How is that more evidence? You keep saying that about everything despite not really having a clue what you are talking about. Because the damage is much more similar to what you’d expect from rockets fired from within Gaza. IDF bombs destroy whole buildings and city blocks, and leave huge craters, not just set cars on fire. The proof so far is circumstantial, yes, but it seems a very large portion of what I shared from information that looked like it made objective sense during the night’s events turned out to be true, or close to the truth. Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Unofficial counts are approaching a thousand dead. More reliably at the moment between 300-500 depending on which government agency you listen to. Hoping that death toll does come down. I do get this, and completely understand the reasons why anyone sane would be skeptical of the IDF, but “they’ve done it before” is not stronger proof than the images currently now being released in the daylight, and in my opinion, the footage of the malfunction and geolocating released soon after the event. It won’t be long, unfortunately, until they get back to their regularly scheduled war crimes. I just think it’s becoming clear now that this probably wasn’t one of theirs. Directly, anyway. There has been a lot of geopolitical rammifications over something that may not have happened as it was reported it did, and that’s crazy dangerous.
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Oct 18, 2023 07:51
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Pvt. Parts posted:The postmodernist/woke types who dominate these forums (and the mainstream in general) are apparently not interested in "responsibly" consuming content related to this conflict. They have already made up their minds a priori that, in the case of the large gorilla and the lemur locked away in a cage together, the smaller beast is unable to do any wrong or indeed any real damage even if it tried (as it does). Weakness and victimhood are high moral stature, and the gorilla exploits the lemur at every turn, for the inverse is impossible by nature. It's somewhat forgivable as a lapse in judgement, given the obvious emotional impact of the strong beating up on the weak. But as you said, if it becomes the basis of one's worldview, it only perpetually clouds judgement, and of course media outlets will be all too ready to feed into that core narrative. thousands of people are being murdered by israel every day
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Oct 18, 2023 07:51
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Pvt. Parts posted:The postmodernist/woke types who dominate these forums (and the mainstream in general) are apparently not interested in "responsibly" consuming content related to this conflict. They have already made up their minds a priori that, in the case of the large gorilla and the lemur locked away in a cage together, the smaller beast is unable to do any wrong or indeed any real damage even if it tried (as it does). Weakness and victimhood are high moral stature, and the gorilla exploits the lemur at every turn, for the inverse is impossible by nature. It's somewhat forgivable as a lapse in judgement, given the obvious emotional impact of the strong beating up on the weak. But as you said, if it becomes the basis of one's worldview, it only perpetually clouds judgement, and of course media outlets will be all too ready to feed into that core narrative. Mods change my name to postmodernist lemur Responses to this on Norwegian social media is complete and utter condemnation, but I can't say anything for our politicians because they're pretty much in lockstep with whatever the Americans are doing. I don't know what to hope for or even expect with Biden's visit now to Israel as the summits and meetings with leaders in the region has effectively been cancelled in the wake of this incident.
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Oct 18, 2023 07:51
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fatelvis posted:If this wasn't the IDF, and they wanted to have any credibility at all in this, they probably shouldn't have: Add to the list that they bombed the home of the hospital's medical director.  https://www.episcopalnewsservice.org/pressreleases/crisis-at-ahli-arab-hospital-in-gaza-diocese-of-jerusalem-sounds-urgent-call-for-support/
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Oct 18, 2023 07:52
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Pvt. Parts posted:The postmodernist/woke types who dominate these forums (and the mainstream in general) are apparently not interested in "responsibly" consuming content related to this conflict. They have already made up their minds a priori that, in the case of the large gorilla and the lemur locked away in a cage together, the smaller beast is unable to do any wrong or indeed any real damage even if it tried (as it does). Weakness and victimhood are high moral stature, and the gorilla exploits the lemur at every turn, for the inverse is impossible by nature. It's somewhat forgivable as a lapse in judgement, given the obvious emotional impact of the strong beating up on the weak. But as you said, if it becomes the basis of one's worldview, it only perpetually clouds judgement, and of course media outlets will be all too ready to feed into that core narrative. I do genuinely believe the stronger party in a conflict, the one with vastly more clout, education, resources, and support from outside has a higher responsibility to treat the other party fairly. I do believe that Israel holds all of the cards so I believe they should be held to a higher standard, especially since it is my tax dollars that are funding them. It's not a matter of weakness being a moral virtue. It is about what we owe to each other.
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Oct 18, 2023 07:53
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are there rockets launched out of gaza with larger warhead than the grad? i guess this is something i know nothing about, but on a zeroth order approximation it just feels impossible for a rocket in that size range to kill 500 people unless it was air bursting over a dense crowd or something. a i mean, i remember during the insurgencies in iraq and afghanistan you'd have car bombs detonating in crowded markets and "only" kill scores 500 at once is just such a staggering number. a little digging on the topic and i came across a non-profit attempting to characterize effects of different common munitions which include a number of case studies, an excerpt of which is quoted below: quote:CASE STUDY NO 1 http://characterisationexplosiveweapons.org/studies/annex-a-122-mm-mbrl/ this incident killed an entire order of magnitude more people than the highest casualty case study, which involved an 18 hour bombardment by two dozen grad launchers and other artillery. for a single rocket to kill so many it seems like the crowd in the courtyard would be so dense you risk crush injuries i don't know, i guess that no matter what this just seems like the worse time in this terrible conflict that i can remember, it makes the second intifada seem low intensity
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Oct 18, 2023 07:56
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Rakosi posted:Because the damage is much more similar to what you’d expect from rockets fired from within Gaza. IDF bombs destroy whole buildings and city blocks, and leave huge craters, not just set cars on fire. The proof so far is circumstantial, yes, but it seems a very large portion of what I shared from information that looked like it made objective sense during the night’s events turned out to be true, or close to the truth. This attack didn’t level the building because it hit outside of it, but it did severe damage to it and killed a huge amount of people. This is just not the kind of damage that a Qassam could do. Qassams and other Gazan missile and rocket attacks have hit busy places before and the usual casualty rate is in the single digits. Your circumstantial evidence seems to be “It feels right to me” and not based off of any knowledge you have.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:00
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IT BURNS posted:That's surprising, because Jordan is one of the more peaceful/stable countries in the Middle East. There's no way this isn't escalating further. Palestinian refugees make up a significant portion of Jordan's population, so something like this is going to have an outsized impact there. ImpAtom posted:I genuinely do think it's too early for anyone to say anything. At this point anything less than 100% absolute evidence is probably not going to move anyone's personal metric a single meter and even then I admit I (and I assume a lot of other people) would have to wonder if anything provided by the IDF is faked (and even if it was 100% real there would be people making pretty good arguments for why it must be fake because most of us know only the absolute bare minimum about this stuff and we're largely depending on twitter experts and 'experts.') I think it's entirely reasonable to view the entire thing has a horrifying atrocity that is the result of the razing of the area and even if it was a misfire or an accident it's still the end result of a battle in these situations. I agree here - there's basically no evidence to speak of at the moment. Until more evidence comes out (which will likely take days), I think it's more important to look at how the various players are reacting. In particular, it struck me that Israel did not blame Hamas, but instead blamed Islamic Jihad, despite the fact that they've literally declared war on Hamas and are using Hamas as their excuse to invade. It's rare for Israel to do that. Even if an attack was clearly and obviously done by Islamic Jihad, the Israeli government usually treats it as Hamas' fault anyway and reacts accordingly. Usually when they pin the blame on Islamic Jihad like this, it's because they're seeking to negotiate or deescalate. Engorged Pedipalps posted:2. This is a hospital operating deeply over capacity in the most heavily sanctioned war zone on planet earth, where did they get enough oxygen to level a hospital, and why wasn't that being consumed by patients? There's an oxygen production plant in Gaza. Oxygen isn't particularly difficult to produce as long as you've got the right equipment and the electrical power to run it - you don't need a bunch of raw materials or anything.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:03
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I24news English on youtube has a livestreaming briefing from the IDF explaining how everything happened as predicted by the footage/OSINT posted during the night. Seems like the larger fireball came from excess fuel from a failed launch.Kchama posted:This attack didn’t level the building because it hit outside of it, but it did severe damage to it and killed a huge amount of people. This is just not the kind of damage that a Qassam could do. Qassams and other Gazan missile and rocket attacks have hit busy places before and the usual casualty rate is in the single digits. Your circumstantial evidence seems to be “It feels right to me” and not based off of any knowledge you have. My dude, answers to these have been posted before but you either aren’t convinced or don’t want to be convinced. We’re just going to disagree on this. Badr 3s could do this but the point is moot as it is now officially being claimed the heavy fuel load of the missile greatly exacerbated the fireball. Even a small missile will kill more or less people depending on if it lands on a heavily populated camp of sheltering people or not. Casualty numbers are not metrics for how ‘big’ a missile is.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:08
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Pvt. Parts posted:The postmodernist/woke types who dominate these forums (and the mainstream in general) are apparently not interested in "responsibly" consuming content related to this conflict. They have already made up their minds a priori that, in the case of the large gorilla and the lemur locked away in a cage together, the smaller beast is unable to do any wrong or indeed any real damage even if it tried (as it does). Weakness and victimhood are high moral stature, and the gorilla exploits the lemur at every turn, for the inverse is impossible by nature. It's somewhat forgivable as a lapse in judgement, given the obvious emotional impact of the strong beating up on the weak. But as you said, if it becomes the basis of one's worldview, it only perpetually clouds judgement, and of course media outlets will be all too ready to feed into that core narrative. I'd ask you to define exactly what on earth you mean with the pejorative usage of "postmodernist/woke," but I am assuming, based on that gorilla analogy, you refer to the rejection of the notion that all viewpoints are inherently valid and credible, and that in particular the views held by those in positions of power should be subjected to the most scrutiny. If you're positing that it is impossible to make a rational judgement when presented with one claim from a credible institution, such as MSF, and another from an institution known for denial and obfuscation, such as the IDF, you may want to reexamine your definition of unclouded judgement.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:10
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Rakosi posted:I do get this, and completely understand the reasons why anyone sane would be skeptical of the IDF, but “they’ve done it before” is not stronger proof than the images currently now being released in the daylight, and in my opinion, the footage of the malfunction and geolocating released soon after the event. It won’t be long, unfortunately, until they get back to their regularly scheduled war crimes. I just think it’s becoming clear now that this probably wasn’t one of theirs. Directly, anyway. It defies my understanding that anyone would accept the word of an entity that murders with impunity and has been caught covering up and lying about its murders repeatedly, over the most probable and explicable sequence of events without waiting for truly independent analysis. But your position has been consistently that the IDF didn't do it from the moment you started posting in this thread, even as the IDF story has altered and evolved. So I don't know what to say other than I cannot understand your position, and I think it is naive beyond the bounds of credulity. Main Paineframe posted:In particular, it struck me that Israel did not blame Hamas, but instead blamed Islamic Jihad, despite the fact that they've literally declared war on Hamas and are using Hamas as their excuse to invade. It's rare for Israel to do that. Even if an attack was clearly and obviously done by Islamic Jihad, the Israeli government usually treats it as Hamas' fault anyway and reacts accordingly. Usually when they pin the blame on Islamic Jihad like this, it's because they're seeking to negotiate or deescalate. I believe the first iteration of the IDF defence was that it was a Hamas rocket. This was roughly at the same time as Hamas tunnels under the hospital were also being used as an excuse for it being a legitimate strike.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:13
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Rakosi posted:I24news English on youtube has a livestreaming briefing from the IDF explaining how everything happened as predicted by the footage/OSINT posted during the night. Seems like the larger fireball came from excess fuel from a failed launch. I've pointed out that you're wrong though, and you've just merrily ignored it. Hence why it's so obvious you're just doing this because 'it feels right'. Unless I've been lied to, the Badr-3 is a solid-state fuel rocket, which means that the fuel load is not the type to explode, so the 'heavy fuel load' you claim (with zero evidence) wouldn't matter. I'm not convinced because you're just posting theories with zero substance about them. You just hear what someone who says what you want it to be and then parrot that.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:15
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Rakosi posted:I24news English on youtube has a livestreaming briefing from the IDF explaining how everything happened as predicted by the footage/OSINT posted during the night. Seems like the larger fireball came from excess fuel from a failed launch. as has been posted before, the rockets use solid-state fuel that does not explosively combust except under pressure. the contortions required to make this attack come from any source besides israel are absurd, and leaves an impression of either extreme credulity or motivated reasoning.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:16
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We saw the same thing happen when they murdered Shireen. Don't ever trust what Israel says.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:19
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I’m watching da war retard channel on YouTube right now and he says that North Korea blew up that hospital sounds good to me (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 18, 2023 08:23
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Rakosi posted:I24news English on youtube has a livestreaming briefing from the IDF explaining how everything happened as predicted by the footage/OSINT posted during the night. Seems like the larger fireball came from excess fuel from a failed launch. I don't get how you can (in the same post even) lecture people for bringing up that the casualties caused by this explosion are completely out of scope with anything that Hamas or PIJ has ever sent at Israel as being unfounded, but your entire argument for it being a "failed" PIJ rocket is that the damage / aftermath photos seems (to you, completely unqualifed to make these assessments) more like a PIJ rocket than an Israeli bomb.. based on some vague reasoning that Israeli bombs knock down buildings.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:23
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Starsfan posted:I don't get how you can (in the same post even) lecture people for bringing up that the casualties caused by this explosion are completely out of scope with anything that Hamas or PIJ has ever sent at Israel as being unfounded, but your entire argument for it being a "failed" PIJ rocket is that the damage / aftermath photos seems (to you, completely unqualifed to make these assessments) more like a PIJ rocket than an Israeli bomb.. based on some vague reasoning that Israeli bombs knock down buildings. I mean he's the person who in the same post cautioned that we need to 'get this right' because it was 'important' but then in the same breath said that he was going to do that by latching onto whatever theory he thinks sounds good to him. TheNakedFantastic posted:"Killed a huge amount of people" is also "just feels right to me" taking casualty claims at face value immediately after a bombing in the middle of the night. And so far all video evidence shows the hospital was not destroyed and the primary point of impact was likely the parking lot, with no clear distinction of even an impact crater. Both sides agree that hundreds of people were killed, so I'll take it as at least a good baseline to start with. And I think 'hundreds' counts as a 'huge amount of people'. Kchama fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 08:26
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Kchama posted:This attack didn’t level the building because it hit outside of it, but it did severe damage to it and killed a huge amount of people. This is just not the kind of damage that a Qassam could do. Qassams and other Gazan missile and rocket attacks have hit busy places before and the usual casualty rate is in the single digits. Your circumstantial evidence seems to be “It feels right to me” and not based off of any knowledge you have. "Killed a huge amount of people" is also "just feels right to me" taking casualty claims at face value immediately after a bombing in the middle of the night. And so far all video evidence shows the hospital was not destroyed and the primary point of impact was likely the parking lot, with no clear distinction of even an impact crater.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:27
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Charliegrs posted:I mean since everyone else is throwing out theories based on some grainy rear end videos I might as well too. How do we know Hamas didnt blow up the hospital? Maybe they stuffed a shitload of explosives in a tunnel underneath it? By the way, I'm not in any way supportive of Israel I think they are guilty of genocide before anyone goes and says I'm some Israel supporter. I am sorry but with all due respect this simply does not fit with Hamas's manifest goals at all. Blowing up their own friends and family just to make Israel look bad is just not a trade off that makes any sense. This would seem to qualify as "just asking questions" and "concern trolling." Just asking question is a bad faith argument technique that poses pointed accusations with no evidence as mere questions. When I say concern trolling, it means that I believe you are arguing in bad faith by posing as an ally and a proponent of an argument but you just have concerns. You may not be an Israeli supporter but your devil's advocacy is unnecessary. The devil has an abundance of advocates. TheNakedFantastic posted:"Killed a huge amount of people" is also "just feels right to me" taking casualty claims at face value immediately after a bombing in the middle of the night. And so far all video evidence shows the hospital was not destroyed and the primary point of impact was likely the parking lot, with no clear distinction of even an impact crater. It is unlikely we we know a more exact figure until the dust settles and this is the Israel Palestine conflict. The dust is never settled. But that doesn't mean a very large number are not dead who do not need to be. We can see the bodies in the press conference with the doctor. It is heartbreaking. Also remember the first casualty in any war is the truth. Zoeb fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 08:27
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Rakosi posted:I24news English on youtube has a livestreaming briefing from the IDF explaining how everything happened as predicted by the footage/OSINT posted during the night. Seems like the larger fireball came from excess fuel from a failed launch. Why dont you post the stream. Or, in fact, any frickin source. All youve been doing is contorting information to fit into the slot of "idf didnt do it". Its ridiculous. The IDF have intent and capability to bomb hospitals and kill hundreds of people.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:29
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:It defies my understanding that anyone would accept the word of an entity that murders with impunity and has been caught covering up and lying about its murders repeatedly, over the most probable and explicable sequence of events without waiting for truly independent analysis. But your position has been consistently that the IDF didn't do it from the moment you started posting in this thread, even as the IDF story has altered and evolved. So I don't know what to say other than I cannot understand your position, and I think it is naive beyond the bounds of credulity. I simultaneously think Israel is committing genocide while trying to remain objective when huge, unfolding events happen, and base my conclusions on what seems most likely based on the physical evidence available. Immediately after the explosion, it was claimed by Hamas that IDF struck and 500+ were killed. No one waited for evidence of this, they just believed Hamas officials and ran the story. 11 hours ago Gaza Report posted that there were no sign of mass casualties being evacuated to nearby health centers, so unless this information is false it’s likely the death toll is an exaggeration too. And I’m sure we all hope it is. https://twitter.com/gaza_report/status/1714358870217306385?t=JcDCZzPOlammrEw1w1UDGA&s=19 Kchama posted:I've pointed out that you're wrong though, and you've just merrily ignored it. Hence why it's so obvious you're just doing this because 'it feels right'. Unless I've been lied to, the Badr-3 is a solid-state fuel rocket, which means that the fuel load is not the type to explode, so the 'heavy fuel load' you claim (with zero evidence) wouldn't matter. If you don’t believe these pictures and images then don’t. I don’t know what to tell you. I’m not a rocket expert. But everything together, the launch footage, the mid-air malfunction, the large fireball and now the daytime pictures coming out are showing, to me, it is more unlikely that it was an IDF JDAM not less. We do not need to believe the IDF were responsible for this particular incident to believe that the IDF do war crimes. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 18, 2023 08:31
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The doctors who work at the hospital **who were interviewed on TV* said there were no casualties to be sent to other hospitals, everyone present died from the explosion.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:33
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A big flaming stink posted:as has been posted before, the rockets use solid-state fuel that does not explosively combust except under pressure. the contortions required to make this attack come from any source besides israel are absurd, and leaves an impression of either extreme credulity or motivated reasoning. solid state rockets can absolutely explode what the hell are you talking about
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Oct 18, 2023 08:37
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Rakosi posted:I simultaneously think Israel is committing genocide while trying to remain objective when huge, unfolding events happen, and base my conclusions on what seems most likely based on the physical evidence available. Immediately after the explosion, it was claimed by Hamas that IDF struck and 500+ were killed. No one waited for evidence of this, they just believed Hamas officials and ran the story. 11 hours ago Gaza Report posted that there were no sign of mass casualties being evacuated to nearby health centers, so unless this information is false it’s likely the death toll is an exaggeration too. And I’m sure we all hope it is. Who is saying we need to believe that the IDF was responsible? It's right now farrrrrr more likely than it isn't. Why do you need to believe that they aren't responsible? I am telling you how rockets work! "I'm not a rocket expert, so I'll just ignore being told that my talking point is wrong and continue to parrot it" is not what you should do. A solid-state fuel rocket would not 'massively fireball' and cause extra damage in this situation, because the point of solid-state fuel is that it doesn't do that! Also Gaza Report is a no-name Twitter that you should not be using as a primary source for your theories. Acebuckeye13 posted:solid state rockets can absolutely explode what the hell are you talking about They can explode, but not in the way that is being described. They don't cook off like liquid fuel rockets do. Kchama fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 08:37
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I don't think Rakosi's Just Asking Questions act is fooling a single person posting or lurking in this thread tbh. Not even with the occasional "of course, i deplore some of the actions of the IDF" thrown in.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:40
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Acebuckeye13 posted:solid state rockets can absolutely explode what the hell are you talking about as kchama notes, Kchama posted:They can explode, but not in the way that is being described. They don't cook off like liquid fuel rockets do. i was using "explosively combust" as shorthand for "blow up in a huge fireball", my bad about imprecise wording
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Oct 18, 2023 08:42
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https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1714539311914266931 IDF release alleged communications between Hamas operatives discussing it being a PIJ rocket.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:42
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CeeJee posted:The PIJ's Badr 3 missile carries a warhead which is hundreds of kilos. Why the gently caress have they not been using thosr then against the idf!?!? They saving them in case the idf bust out a gundam?!?
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Oct 18, 2023 08:42
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I have definitive audio and video evidence of CCP agents smuggling SCUD missiles into Gaza *uses fingers to push edges of my eyelids so they look squinty*
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Oct 18, 2023 08:47
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Rakosi posted:https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1714539311914266931 do you think that is compelling evidence of Israel's version of events?
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Oct 18, 2023 08:47
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