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Qwertycoatl posted:So long as the one button is Fell Cleave you'll be fine 
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Oct 18, 2023 10:55
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NachtSieger posted:You might as well worry that FFXIV will become a gacha autobattler. Yoshi P hits the stage for European Fanfest wearing a Noelle and Genshin Impact shirt. That's right, the new magical DPS class is Maid. Corsair will be added to Scouting but there will be a new category of caster armor that isn't robes and only one class uses. Yoshi P will hold the mic to his face and stare into the camera. "Never ask me for anything again." The butt slider is revealed.
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Oct 18, 2023 10:59
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On one hand I can understand Endorph's worry cause it's undeniable that starting from ShB and intensifying in EW the devs have been homogenizing jobs a bit too much for the sake of equality and also forcing the 2 min meta (which iirc it was because of Trick Attack/Mug anyways), which is starting to make jobs a bit too similar. And while EW SMN is absolutely more SMN than the DoT mage with a pet they kinda made it a bit too simple which would piss off SMN mains who liked the complexitiy (I didn't so I like new SMN but I understand the point). Like, Warrior is basically a less complex DRK since you only manage one gauge, while the other tanks have their stuff (Blood and MP, cartidges and being ranged sometimez). On the other hand MCH ammo isn't the best example to use cause it was a mechanic whose only purpose was "remove RNG from your 1-2-3). Like, MCH had debuff turrets and Heat used to be something to control since you wanted to OH at your burst, which I'd say are more defining and unique than "make your 1-2-3 work like every other job" TL;DR: Given the track record fearing the devs might oversimplify jobs isn't wrong, but if Mudras have survived since 2.4 I doubt they'll change them any time soon (they just added QoL related to them like Kassatsu, refreshing Huton so you can use other jutsu, Ten-Chi-Jin, making Hyoton something you'd actually use) GiantRockFromSpace fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 11:37
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Joe Chip posted:Thank you for this. I got my P10S clear and a (surprisingly easy) reclear this week. P11S fresh starts tomorrow. 
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Oct 18, 2023 12:13
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They'll ruin Mudra by telling you point blank that only the last one cast matters, removing the illusion. Thanks A Crap Guide and Jo-Cat
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Oct 18, 2023 12:30
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Doomykins posted:They'll ruin Mudra by telling you point blank that only the last one cast matters, removing the illusion. Hey now, the number of mudra matters too! Cause there's nothing harder about Ninja (for me) that remembering which mudra matches each 2 mudra jutsu, at least the 3 mudras force you to use 3 different ones.
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Oct 18, 2023 12:45
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 This roulette is actually pretty fun since you never know what you are going to get! It's mostly guildhests/raids as DPS Every ex trial I've gotten so far we've managed to clear save for Sephirot (seems it's just too many mechanics to take in for most people) and a suprprise Shinryu ex we abandoned after the 15min. I suppose getting Stormblood trial is going to become a lot more common now.
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Oct 18, 2023 13:25
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Mr. Neutron posted:Every ex trial I've gotten so far we've managed to clear save for Sephirot (seems it's just too many mechanics to take in for most people) se phi rot
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Oct 18, 2023 13:26
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It must be Retainer Video Month... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiM6U-IxNkE
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Oct 18, 2023 14:15
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Vitamean posted:Wouldn't this be because of the number squish in EW? A lot of older instanced content got the 2nd Echo buff, but that wouldn't apply to the overworld.
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Oct 18, 2023 14:18
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MCH and SMN both got changed to be more like the jobs they were based on instead of Gunmage and Dotmage. You can make arguments about play style but they gave them more personality, not less. Also I feel like adding Trusts with their own dialogue and behavior counts as adding flavor to a dungeon, and flavor more relevant than Turn Into A Ghost Because ? ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 14:28
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ImpAtom posted:MCH and SMN both got changed to be more like the jobs they were based on instead of Gunmage and Dotmage. You can make arguments about play style but they gave them more personality, not less. Turning every dungeon into even more similar hallways isn’t really justified by adding in npc dialogue that you might see once if and only if you run them with the bots to see themlines as a novelty. The other 90 times you'll see that dungeon in your playtime it's going to just be a less flavorful/more homogenized dungeon that it was as every bit of difference, even small detail stuff, is sanded off to better fit the ai bots they can't program to get a debuff and move 10 feet. Which is uh...exactly the same poo poo we've seen in other parts of the game's design like the constant consolidation of Tank classes.
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Oct 18, 2023 14:38
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New SMN may be super simple, but it feels a hell of a lot more like a Summoner than before, even without having a pet out at all times.
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Oct 18, 2023 14:39
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Turning every dungeon into even more similar hallways isn’t really justified by adding in npc dialogue that you might see once if and only if you run them with the bots to see themlines as a novelty. The other 90 times you'll see that dungeon in your playtime it's going to just be a less flavorful/more homogenized dungeon that it was as every bit of difference, even small detail stuff, is sanded off to better fit the ai bots they can't program to get a debuff and move 10 feet. That is literally what people want though? Like the overwhelming demand of the playerbase is for dungeons to be quick on replay, with big pulls and minimal friction. People get angry if players don't just drag everything to the walls. Criterion Dungeons exist for the exploring and cool bits stuff now. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 14:43
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ImpAtom posted:MCH and SMN both got changed to be more like the jobs they were based on instead of Gunmage and Dotmage. You can make arguments about play style but they gave them more personality, not less. The real problem with Trusts is they don't AOE. I'm accustomed to dungeons finishing in ~15 minutes or so. While I know they can't make the trusts as effective as a good party running fast, standard DF groups are still double pulling and aoeing down packs. Trusts take 2x as long as running the dungeon with people. I want to enjoy trusts and do more things with them, but it is such a miserable slog to get through anything. A first time group in a dungeon can sight see and get all chests/read all lore and still be out of a place in 20 minutes with cutscenes.
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Oct 18, 2023 14:43
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“But surely if they make jobs all have unique benefits and drawbacks for bringing them, my job won’t be the one excluded from PFs for being off meta” The forced 2 minute is the same as TP removal and no more physical resistance down buffs - it was done in response to what players were doing to each other, and the very real, very noticeable gap in performance between “good” and “bad” group comps. Abyssos showed that the broader community isn’t better than that behavior now or anything, it’s just because the mechanical enforcement works. FuturePastNow posted:People cry nonstop if a job does 2% less damage than the other jobs in its role But that’s all they do now is cry, not make that job unplayable by removing it from all the PFs. The damage contribution gap was way worse when the mandatory phys ranged slot had a straight up damage variance of 10% based on whether or not you had a dragoon, and when samurai would run out of TP if it wasn’t fed goad Mister Olympus fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 14:58
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People cry nonstop if a job does 2% less damage than the other jobs in its role
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Oct 18, 2023 15:01
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If you have a static, the meta doesn't matter. We cleared P8S with war/pld/drg/brd/mch/rdm/sch/ast before the PLD buffs and DPS was never really an issue. I mean, life is definitely easier with a more "meta" comp, but every comp has been pretty viable through Panda.
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Oct 18, 2023 15:01
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Mr. Nice! posted:If you have a static, the meta doesn't matter. We cleared P8S with war/pld/drg/brd/mch/rdm/sch/ast before the PLD buffs and DPS was never really an issue. I mean, life is definitely easier with a more "meta" comp, but every comp has been pretty viable through Panda. Static recruitment during the PF exclusion era was subject to the same issues. The abyssos thing wasn’t even a real problem outside of week 1/2 clears, but it had a real impact and showed everyone that the behavior can and will come back at any time.
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Oct 18, 2023 15:04
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Bring back Dark Arts
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Oct 18, 2023 15:13
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100%.
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Oct 18, 2023 15:24
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Mister Olympus posted:But that’s all they do now is cry, not make that job unplayable by removing it from all the PFs. I definitely remember MCH being explicitly excluded from Abyssos and Barb EX PFs for physranged slots.
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Oct 18, 2023 15:41
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A group that excludes jobs from Extreme or early Savage floors is probably full of poo poo players and they probably wouldn't prog much or clear anyway. As Olympus mentioned, it was a week 1-2 issue for players trying to clear the tier that quickly. Any players that think the issue extended down to Extremes are dumbasses.
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Oct 18, 2023 16:00
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the other week i got neverreap in a roulette and the boss where you had to pick up totems and move them around made me nostalgic for dungeons asking you to do literally anything other than the two minute rotation engine they’ve come up with. i actually don’t do dungeon roulettes anymore. people say they don’t want friction and they just want their daily tomes but like. at what point am i even really playing something anymore. i’ve done this straight shot hallway double pull wall to wall aoe burn fest four thousand times and it just never changes. gets old, man back in shadowbringers i hit a really strange niche in solo speedrunning ARR dungeons. there was actually a weird amount of optimization in like— what path is the shortest? what enemies do i actually have to kill? as a nin, how can i maximize my mudra refreshes for when i need them? it’s nothing that can exist today, and they’ve gone back and redone most of these dungeons entirely so i can’t even do that anymore. anyway all i really play these days is solo deep dungeon, but even with EO it’s kinda clear they’re trying to fit it into their overall raid/battle design ethos
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Oct 18, 2023 16:15
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Too many people complain that any sort of friction or thought requirement is elitist or bigoted towards them so we're stuck with lovely awful dungeons with nothing interesting mechanically in them forever, sadly.
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Oct 18, 2023 16:23
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I personally would be fine with more complex or harder dungeons but I also am 100% sure that if they did it people would complain nonstop or you'd get situations like people dropping any dungeon that has a 'bad' mechanic. Like hell, I remember people flat-out noping out of Totorok or Copperhell and those were just boring. Like we're not even a patch away from "I refuse to unlock dungeons/will remove gear to reduce my ilevel just so I don't have to do anything but the easiest dungeon in a roulette" being an ongoing issue.
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Oct 18, 2023 16:31
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Like, Warrior is basically a less complex DRK since you only manage one gauge, while the other tanks have their stuff (Blood and MP, cartidges and being ranged sometimez). I agree with your statement but WAR has two gauges, or should anyway since Surging Tempest is exactly Darkside other than how you activate it. Baffling why one gets a gauge to look at and the other needs you to scrutinize your buff list.
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Oct 18, 2023 16:40
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The gauges were pretty much thrown in arbitrarily and some jobs needed mechanics invented just to justify them. Only a couple like BLM really seem to make use of the system.
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Oct 18, 2023 16:42
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If you are going to have a dungeon that has a sliding block puzzle or something to do to spice things up it better be shorter than a normal dungeon overall.
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Oct 18, 2023 16:48
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Tekopo posted:my main is WAR and I'm scared that they are gonna make the job just pressing one button over and over again But that's how all the other healers are designed.
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Oct 18, 2023 16:55
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Summoner and Warrior are my two favorite jobs so hell yeah I'll take more jobs like that
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Oct 18, 2023 17:42
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Give me a dungeon with a tower of Hanoi and infinite spawns until it is solved.
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Oct 18, 2023 17:45
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Mr. Nice! posted:The real problem with Trusts is they don't AOE. I'm accustomed to dungeons finishing in ~15 minutes or so. While I know they can't make the trusts as effective as a good party running fast, standard DF groups are still double pulling and aoeing down packs. Trusts take 2x as long as running the dungeon with people. I want to enjoy trusts and do more things with them, but it is such a miserable slog to get through anything. A first time group in a dungeon can sight see and get all chests/read all lore and still be out of a place in 20 minutes with cutscenes. I do my first MSQ run of the dungeons with Trusts, because I like the little character bits that get put in. I run them as PLD since that's my main, and I've always pulled wall-to-wall since I've hit 80 and they usually only take 20-25 minutes, the high end really only happening when I mismanage my mitigation and wipe. Tank AoE DPS plus the occasional bits of AoE the Trusts do throw out has been reasonable enough that we can make it through before I run out of cooldowns before a boss. Maybe it's a PLD thing at high levels? With only doing a little math since I'm not at my computer, it seems each tank's regular AoE combo and filler is fairly comparable, but PLD's 60 second AoE burst seems better than the other tanks'. Not by a huge amount, ~400 compared to ~500 average potency per enemy across 20 seconds, but there's multiple 60 second windows when wall-pulling with Trusts. PLD's 25% damage buff pairs really well with Confiteor and Holy Circle/Blade combo. The Confiteor + Blade combo is huge across multiple attacks, and there's still 10 seconds left over on the buff for a regular AoE combo plus a couple oGCDs. GNB has a 20% boost and they get one really hefty AoE hit, but after burning stacked Cartridges on Fated Circle they're stuck with their regular AoE stuff after that since Continuation is ST only. DRK I'm a bit iffy about because I haven't really played it much. (It's still in the 60s, and isn't as simple to understand by just reading abilities as WAR.) Their burst seems to have more medium hits and more oGCDs than the other tanks, plus Living Shadow, but I'm not sure it's enough to win out, especially with Salted Earth at 90 seconds. I have to read up on their AoE burst, it's been too long since I last played it since I've been too busy leveling my DPS. WAR I'm also not sure on. They don't have a big damage boost buff, just the continuous 10% one (DRK has it too), but they do have several big hits. The problem is, those hits are guaranteed Direct Criticals, so I can't really get a solid number since crits can scale. I used double potency since that's what I saw people say it roughly works out to, but I'm not sure if that's accurate or not. Their big Primal Rend hits hard on one target, but the 70% AoE reduction on it really hurts. Chaotic Cyclone carries a bit, but you don't get very many and Decimate just doesn't scale as well. Onean fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 17:45
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Tremors posted:Give me a dungeon with a tower of Hanoi and infinite spawns until it is solved. this but unironically
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Oct 18, 2023 17:49
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GNB has really good burst every two minutes and average burst every minute. You wouldn't use your continuation combo at all during AOE because fated circle is just too good. The problem GNB has is sustain. They just do not have as much self healing as WAR or PLD. They're worlds better than DRK when it comes to self-heal, but it's nothing like WAR/PLD. It's not an issue with a player party because enemies die faster, but it becomes an issue on trusts. You can WAR+3DPS every EW endgame dungeon and probably a handful of the story ones. I haven't tried with PLD, but it seems like their self healing is more than enough to do it, too. I could solo every dungeon boss before the revamp, and I see no reason that would have gotten more difficult.
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Oct 18, 2023 17:54
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I also do my first run of MSQ dungeons with trusts, and it takes me around 30 minutes doing single pulls. That's the lore run, baby. Average double the time it takes for a normal roulette group to run it is fine by me, especially since I'm only gonna run it a couple times for explicit lore reasons and then again only once I want to work on capping trusts late in the expansion. if you wanted to use them for exp you'd make that decision after seeing the projected wait time on a leveling roulette queue hit 15+ minutes. either jump into a trust run or go do something in the overworld like level your gatherers or do dailies or something.
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Oct 18, 2023 18:00
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W.T. Fits posted:But that's how all the other healers are designed. lol But seriously I wish SCH had something to do other than Art of War for aoe damage. They could have been the poison mage over SMN or something
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Oct 18, 2023 18:02
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FFXIV dungeons are an interesting topic because I feel like there are multiple different groups unhappy with the current methodologies behind them and thus have multiple different desires on what they want them to be. This is on top of those people upset that we only get one dungeon per patch. With the topic of Skalla, I see people saying "they removed the ghosts and that killed the character of that dungeon" and idk if I'm just dismissive but that ghost section never felt critical to the vibe of the dungeon and, honestly to me, it was more of a chore than it was fun or interesting. Overall, that kind of change doesn't really bother me? I guess majority of the dungeon changes don't bother me? Like them removing the slow slime floors in Toto-rak. Good riddance. I am all for them smoothing over the rough edges of some of these dungeons. As for when people complain about us only getting one dungeon per patch (not speaking to this thread but just in general) - at this time, we have over 80 dungeons in this game. It gets to the point of diminishing returns. When going through blue mage spell acquisition lately, there were multiple dungeons where I've though "gently caress, I haven't been here in 4+ years." I think the real elephant in the room is the numbers roulette as that gives poo poo rewards and is long overdue a good rebalance. Another thing I see frequently is "dungeons are boring. it's all two wall pulls and then a boss" and I get that on a level. I also feel that, at this point, that is the formula for dungeons and mixing that up is going to annoy people more than it is going to make dungeons interesting. Because we all know that collecting the oil for Wanderer's Palace is a super interesting and fun mechanic. /s I feel like my perfect scenario would be leaning in to making Variant Dungeons more of puzzle/odd mechanics dungeon and then create a Variant Dungeon roulette. And then have every patch add a normal MSQ dungeon as well as a Variant dungeon.
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Oct 18, 2023 18:12
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I thought this meant they removed the ghosts from the aulus mal asina fight and I was like oh that fuckin blows but it turns out it's skalla and I honestly don't remember that ghost mechanic. that's my story. oh and WAR is the best trust tank because none of those bastards in the scions can heal correctly, so WAR makes proper double pulls way smoother e: I think a lot of dungeon design change from ARR to EW is linked to a stronger understanding of how to tell stories in dungeons, too. Pretty much all of the EW leveling dungeons have an actual arc or some level of storytelling happening in them, and I think a lot of the design shift is down to deciding that e.g. the 85 dungeon benefits more from people being able to pay attention to the mob pack dialogue and shouts instead of focusing on mechanics. It's much easier to guide the players eye when they're not scanning the environment for clickables or small keys. Then the level cap dungeons are also simple because they're for grinding on a daily basis and getting them to a point of smooth, painless runs is the point. Agreed that this means they should amp up the weirdness of variant dungeons, though. Valentin fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 18:21
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based on my experience of farming the Starbird the class you actually bring for speedrunning trusts is Reaper
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Oct 18, 2023 18:30
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