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Last Celebration posted:Deku is kinda weird because when you really stop to think about it, his tendency to automatically analyze everyone’s quirks and theorycraft their potential downsides really, really makes him way better suited to major in support equipment. To be fair, it also makes him excellent as a combat hero, because being able to guess what your opponent's limitation is on the fly is a really good way to win a fight.
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Oct 18, 2023 07:01
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Casey Finnigan posted:tbh I think the world in this comic would be in better shape if All Might never gave his power to Deku at all. Even now, Deku, with all his abilities, still isn't as strong as "injured All Might in the process of losing his power, while wearing heavy weights as a handicap." Someone who could use the "base" OfA power as well as Toshinori would definitely be stronger than Deku, especially since they'd have access to *more* power than All Might. Deku adapted as well as he could, but that can only do so much. Granted, this is all partly because the story portrayed All Might as being absurdly powerful. Dude could knock down buildings with the shockwave created by throwing a handicapped jab, it was pretty silly.
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Oct 18, 2023 10:16
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Aside from being a natural genius at using it to the point where he literally couldn't explain to Deku how he used it, All Might was naturally a lot bigger than weedy little Deku, and he had the advantage that OfA wasn't quite as strong for him as it is for Deku so he probably had more time to adjust to it when learning it. Plus Deku has only had OfA for like a year and a half or so(he got it right before taking the UA entrance exam and they're in their second year), while All Might had it for decades. Deku's kind of had the raw end of things here, since Deku went through a crash weightlifting regimen to even accept OfA and then has been constantly fighting for his life against apocalyptic villain assassination squads ever since. It honestly wouldn't make any sense for *anyone* All Might gave the power to to actually be remotely as good at it as he was given how little time there has been to actually adjust to it and practice using it. Plus there's the whole "OfA might just kill someone who already has a quirk in like a month now or something because it's gotten so strong" thing. The fourth gen guy died after 18 years of using it, and Deku is the ninth gen. Kanos fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 10:32
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Kanos posted:Aside from being a natural genius at using it to the point where he literally couldn't explain to Deku how he used it, All Might was naturally a lot bigger than weedy little Deku, and he had the advantage that OfA wasn't quite as strong for him as it is for Deku so he probably had more time to adjust to it when learning it. It was quite the leap for him, wasn't it. I dunno if the manga explains Nana's death more but I got the impression AFO just curbstomped her. Granted, she would have already passed on One for All and not been at her best but I think the conclusive fact is nobody until Toshi was any match for him. So it's like all the previous holders gave like 5% increase to OFA and Toshi gave like 50%. Maybe it has to do with time. As you note in your next paragraph, All Might was "contributing" to the quirk for decades, and that's exactly how the quirk works, right. It stockpiles energy so the more time you have with it, the more power added to it? So he added 50% to it because of all those decades.
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Oct 18, 2023 13:56
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NikkolasKing posted:It was quite the leap for him, wasn't it. I dunno if the manga explains Nana's death more but I got the impression AFO just curbstomped her. Granted, she would have already passed on One for All and not been at her best but I think the conclusive fact is nobody until Toshi was any match for him. So it's like all the previous holders gave like 5% increase to OFA and Toshi gave like 50%. Also, Toshinori's muscular body was something he earned via exercise legitimately, which probably helped supercharge the physical power stockpiling the quirk was doing.
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Oct 18, 2023 13:59
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Lord_Magmar posted:Also, Toshinori's muscular body was something he earned via exercise legitimately, which probably helped supercharge the physical power stockpiling the quirk was doing. No loving way all that was natty
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Oct 18, 2023 14:40
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Don’t we see him in flashbacks before he has OFA and he just looks like a kinda weedy kid?
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Oct 18, 2023 14:45
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I think Deku would have functioned better as being this dork that figures out how to win in all these situations via his knowledge. I think giving him all these abilities was too fast, he'd have been better as a competent hero but a liability if he used his powers. Culminating with the typical shonen power up of him using all his abilities to slam dunk AFO, saving All Might breaking Nighteye's prophecy and becoming "The Greatest Hero."
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Oct 18, 2023 14:58
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I know it’s cliche but I think the series would be cool if Deku didn’t have a quirk. Hes just so analytical and observant that he could bluff through UA by claiming he has some kind of foresight quirk. I guess that would just turn him into Joseph Joestar, but any series would be improved by making Joseph the protagonist
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Oct 18, 2023 15:05
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Honestly i figured Deku would be like Batman with him figuring out opponents weakness. I always found it weird dude smashed his body to pieces just to be like his superhero idol. edit: You aint the only one. Woulda loved it if Deku was helping solving crimes behind the scenes. Like a Vigilante. 
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Oct 18, 2023 15:06
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TheKingofSprings posted:No loving way all that was natty Need an alternate version of the story where All Might tells Deku to start taking lots of steroids.
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Oct 18, 2023 15:14
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I think Deku getting the super quick was fine. The problem was when he got all these extra powers and the threat of him destroying his body was removed. So instead of even having to pretend he had to use his analytical mind to offset the very real physical penalty of using his top tier ability, he can just go ham all the time and it's a lot more boring. When it is compounded with a similar villain that just no sells every ultimate move thrown at him and in many cases gets stronger from them it makes everything outside of the obvious final battle seem meaningless yet the comic has spent over two years spinning its wheels getting there.Rhonne posted:Need an alternate version of the story where All Might tells Deku to start taking lots of steroids. That paper he showed his mom during his initial training montage wasn't a meal schedule it was a forged prescription. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 15:19
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Rhonne posted:Need an alternate version of the story where All Might tells Deku to start taking lots of steroids. "Young Midoriya! You can't get these gains alone! Sorry that's the reality! HOWEVER! You can be a hero young man with this!" *Pulls out needle* "Now, LIFT YOUR SACK! Don't want the UA officials to go poking their noses they don't belong!"
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Oct 18, 2023 15:19
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Eggplant Squire posted:When it is compounded with a similar villain that just no sells every ultimate move thrown at him and in many cases gets stronger from them it makes everything outside of the obvious final battle seem meaningless Especially when it has been offscreen quite a bit. Like oh hey thats still happening. Right.
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Oct 18, 2023 15:25
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Last Celebration posted:Don’t we see him in flashbacks before he has OFA and he just looks like a kinda weedy kid? And getting the quirk obviously doesn't super-beef you up, Toshinori as we've seen him gets broader and stronger over time because he worked out. It's also why he knows how to help Izuku make proper exercise plans, but doesn't know poo poo about teaching. He's a body-builder (but not the self-harming kind). Him being 7 foot tall is natural, maybe the sheer size he achieved wasn't. But it's not like he's the only guy with that build, Endeavour to a lesser extent, and Knuckleduster in Vigilantes are both built like brick shithouses without OfA.
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Oct 18, 2023 15:26
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Eggplant Squire posted:When it is compounded with a similar villain that just no sells every ultimate move thrown at him and in many cases gets stronger from them it makes everything outside of the obvious final battle seem meaningless yet the comic has spent over two years spinning its wheels getting there. Since Deku got all of his extra powers, his only real fights have been what, Shigaraki, a rematch with Muscular, Nagant, a bunch of off-screen villains, and now Shigaraki again? Muscular was more a one-sided beat down to show how far Deku had come, but the Nagant fight was fun. The problem is that Shigaraki is just a boring final villain.
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Oct 18, 2023 15:46
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Lord_Magmar posted:And getting the quirk obviously doesn't super-beef you up, Toshinori as we've seen him gets broader and stronger over time because he worked out.
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Oct 18, 2023 16:39
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Tampa Bae posted:remember when he did all that intense training just to support the quirk and couldn't even throw a baseball as hard as the girl who's only power was being invisible lol She probably just ran across the field with the ball and claimed she threw it. Who’s gonna prove otherwise?
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Oct 18, 2023 16:48
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CharlestonJew posted:She probably just ran across the field with the ball and claimed she threw it. Who’s gonna prove otherwise? Being invisible would make it harder to conceal a ball. Unless she put it in a pocket, which anyone could do.
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Oct 18, 2023 20:22
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oh jay posted:Being invisible would make it harder to conceal a ball. Unless she put it in a pocket, which anyone could do. No I mean you just run forward holding it up in the air going “wow look how far it’s going zoom”. Since the challenge was “use your quirk however you can” Aizawa was probably like “I’ll allow it”
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Oct 18, 2023 22:30
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Last Celebration posted:Don’t we see him in flashbacks before he has OFA and he just looks like a kinda weedy kid? When he was younger he's not built like Buff All Might yet, but he's a giant compared to Deku.
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Oct 18, 2023 22:53
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Kanos posted:Aside from being a natural genius at using it to the point where he literally couldn't explain to Deku how he used it, All Might was naturally a lot bigger than weedy little Deku, and he had the advantage that OfA wasn't quite as strong for him as it is for Deku so he probably had more time to adjust to it when learning it. I'm not blaming Deku for anything. He's done better than anyone could ask for given his circumstances. But it probably would have been better if Toshinori had found someone else more like himself (at least without inserting some kinda silly "actually it would have blown up anyone else" logic). Toshinori couldn't have known either (due to being a genius), so no one is to blame. Just a hindsight thing. Edit: And I think the core issue on a meta level is that All Might was simply portrayed as being too unreasonably strong. Hard to write fights like that. Hell, early self-harming Deku was also portrayed as being too strong. He could output enough power in a single finger to smash a huge block of ice with the air pressure. He hasn't come close to reclaiming that ludicrous level of power (and can't reasonably do so without it causing problems for the writing). Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 23:28
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I don't know if anyone else would have been a better choice, honestly. It's likely that anyone who got OfA probably would have had to deal with the "blowing yourself to bits" phase of the power because it's just that strong at this point, and most people who aren't wired for insane heroic selflessness would have probably have started hesitating to use the power at all if doing so involved turning your arms to splinters.
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Oct 18, 2023 23:43
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Tampa Bae posted:remember when he did all that intense training just to support the quirk and couldn't even throw a baseball as hard as the girl who's only power was being invisible lol Ehhhh, I suspect Aizawa was bullshitting a lot more than just the "worst person is expelled" bit. He's trying to force Izuku to "safely" use his blow his own arms up quirk or accept that he's too much of a liability to be a hero. Aizawa wanted people to use their quirks, not using his quirk was probably why Izuku was last, rather than lacking physical capability. Also Izuku was absolutely letting nerves get to him there regardless. Plus might not have been used to his own physical increases and overthinking his need to use a quirk and thus not actually doing as well as he should anyway. Heck, he only did a lovely little weedy throw because Aizawa interrupted him using his quirk the first time.
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Oct 19, 2023 04:06
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With all this talk about how Deku's a letdown, was there a reveal that actually you can totally have a Quirk and OfA just fine that I forgot about? People are talking about how All Might should've found an Andrew Garfield-sized teenager without a Quirk instead of Deku and I feel like I forgot a key part of the story.
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Oct 19, 2023 08:10
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iirc you can have a quirk + OFA since that's the entire reason there's so many different powers to begin with, it just wasn't until Deku that someone was able to use them all at once. Mirio was originally the one being groomed by All Might to take over to begin with which was why All Might was at the academy to begin with
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Oct 19, 2023 08:25
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RareAcumen posted:With all this talk about how Deku's a letdown, was there a reveal that actually you can totally have a Quirk and OfA just fine that I forgot about? People are talking about how All Might should've found an Andrew Garfield-sized teenager without a Quirk instead of Deku and I feel like I forgot a key part of the story. Every user of OfA until Toshinori had a quirk before receiving OfA, and the concept that having OfA and another quirk at the same time has negative effects/can kill you over time was a very late reveal in the story that wasn't really hinted at until Deku found out the secret behind the third OfA user(he died at like age 40 from OfA-induced stress). It was also a major thrust of the Overhaul arc that Mirio was a candidate for OfA and Nighteye considered him a superior choice, and Mirio is definitely much bigger, more built, and more conventionally heroic-looking than Deku is.
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Oct 19, 2023 08:26
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Is there anything that has happened so far that shows Mirio wouldn’t have been a better choice?
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Oct 19, 2023 10:27
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He would obviously be the better choice. He was older, altruistic, way more experienced and ridiculously competent. But nah, lets give it to some child we just met and hope for the best
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Oct 19, 2023 10:33
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Mirio convinced Izuku to let a child remain with her abusers and both of them regretted the gently caress out of it afterwards. Also All Might hadn't even met Mirio when he gave Izuku the quirk, he was going to work at UA to find a successor and happened to find Izuku before that and decided Izuku was the choice and they both did their best. Edit: Also also All Might thought All for One was loving dead and Izuku would have plenty of time to learn how to use the quirk safely. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Oct 19, 2023 |
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Oct 19, 2023 10:44
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Kanos posted:Every user of OfA until Toshinori had a quirk before receiving OfA, and the concept that having OfA and another quirk at the same time has negative effects/can kill you over time was a very late reveal in the story that wasn't really hinted at until Deku found out the secret behind the third OfA user(he died at like age 40 from OfA-induced stress). It was also a major thrust of the Overhaul arc that Mirio was a candidate for OfA and Nighteye considered him a superior choice, and Mirio is definitely much bigger, more built, and more conventionally heroic-looking than Deku is. That kinda did come out of left field, didn't it. Although it put to rest all the old theories I used to read about how the doctor from Chapter 1 was actually AFO's doc and just lying about Deku being Quirkless. Deku def has no quirk, even a "useless" one like AFO's brother, and that is why he gets to live a nice, long life. Ytlaya posted:Edit: And I think the core issue on a meta level is that All Might was simply portrayed as being too unreasonably strong. Hard to write fights like that. Hell, early self-harming Deku was also portrayed as being too strong. He could output enough power in a single finger to smash a huge block of ice with the air pressure. He hasn't come close to reclaiming that ludicrous level of power (and can't reasonably do so without it causing problems for the writing). Ah, powerscaling. Base Freeza can blow up a planet with a finger, start of Z Piccolo can casually destroy the Moon with a hand blast, but Super Saiyans and above can barely destroy mountains with their ultimate attacks. Just one of those things you gotta roll with I guess. Lord_Magmar posted:Mirio convinced Izuku to let a child remain with her abusers and both of them regretted the gently caress out of it afterwards. Yeah, a ton of completely unforeseeable poo poo happened all at once and then over and over again. I don't think it's anyone's fault. I think everyone involved did the best they could. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Oct 19, 2023 |
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Oct 19, 2023 11:03
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PringleCreamEgg posted:Is there anything that has happened so far that shows Mirio wouldn’t have been a better choice? One of the throughlines of the Overhaul plot is that Mirio is definitely strong and heroic, but he didn't have the same level of absolute selfless heroism that Deku has, which led to him counseling Deku to leave Eri with her abuser because it wasn't part of the plan and eventually led him to suicidally throw himself at Overhaul to buy time despite being dequirked as penance for doing that. Deku goes through an entire crisis of confidence about whether he should just give up OfA to Mirio, it's addressed on panel. I'm not sure where the idea that Deku has done so badly with OfA that he wasn't a good pick came from. The time frame of this series is ridiculously compressed compared to the amount of time the manga has been running; it hasn't even been two years in-story since Deku initially met All Might, and even less time since he ate the hair and inherited OfA. Him learning to use it as well as he has given that he's been almost constantly under immediate threat to his life and for half of that time period society has been collapsing is honestly about as good as one can expect. Mirio isn't some kind of super genius who could instantly master OfA either - he specifically talks about how it took him a lot of work and effort to master how to use his own quirk effectively, and his own quirk doesn't automatically horribly maim him if he fucks up in practice like OfA would.
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Oct 19, 2023 11:15
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The thing is that "ah but you see you must be quirkless to properly inherit OFA" always felt like a last minute borderline retcon to avoid "All Might made a bad decision giving it to Deku". Deku both sucks at using the quirk and doesn't have a quirk of his own for it to synergize with, which means almost anyone else would have been a better pick if you're trying to make a strong fighter who can defeat the demon king. It's literally captain america's origin copy-pasted, except the other options aren't dickhead US army recruits, they're more or less as heroic as Deku. I think it's fine if All Might gave his quirk to the wrong kid, things could still work out fine even without retroactively making him correct all along.
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Oct 19, 2023 11:29
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Kanos posted:I'm not sure where the idea that Deku has done so badly with OfA that he wasn't a good pick came from. The time frame of this series is ridiculously compressed compared to the amount of time the manga has been running; it hasn't even been two years in-story since Deku initially met All Might, and even less time since he ate the hair and inherited OfA. Him learning to use it as well as he has given that he's been almost constantly under immediate threat to his life and for half of that time period society has been collapsing is honestly about as good as one can expect. Mirio isn't some kind of super genius who could instantly master OfA either - he specifically talks about how it took him a lot of work and effort to master how to use his own quirk effectively, and his own quirk doesn't automatically horribly maim him if he fucks up in practice like OfA would. Reddit was asking about the most emotional moments of MHA and I will always, always love Izku vs. Muscular 1. That ending is everything I want in a battle shounen. I bring it up though because Izuku kinda chastises himself for loving up his arms so he couldn't save Bakugo. And of course that was the super serious damage to his arms that could potentially cripple him so he needed to learn Shoot Style. But the point is...he absolutely had no choice. If he hadn't wrecked both his arms, he and Kota both be dead, Muscular probably would have killed everyone else at camp too since absolutely no one could have stopped him save maybe Aizawa, and Bakugo would have still been abducted. The fandom sometimes buys into Deku's excessive self-effacing, like he's somehow reckless or dumb, when in reality he just keeps being put in impossible situation after impossible situation.
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Oct 19, 2023 11:30
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Mymla posted:The thing is that "ah but you see you must be quirkless to properly inherit OFA" always felt like a last minute borderline retcon to avoid "All Might made a bad decision giving it to Deku". Deku both sucks at using the quirk and doesn't have a quirk of his own for it to synergize with, which means almost anyone else would have been a better pick if you're trying to make a strong fighter who can defeat the demon king. It's literally captain america's origin copy-pasted, except the other options aren't dickhead US army recruits, they're more or less as heroic as Deku. You know who else didn't have a cool quirk for OfA to synergize with? All Might. Even without the "ah you must be quirkless to safely use OfA" thing, the point is that Deku is meant to be a mirror of Toshinori. Toshinori was also a gormless goober with no power or abilities of his own who had a hero's heart and a willingness to help. If Nana was just playing for the win, she could have found someone with a sick battle quirk to pair with OfA, but she didn't. She gave it to the quirkless nobody because she liked what she saw in him, just like All Might did to Deku. She didn't even get the chance to see that her choice was absolutely right because she handed it off right before she went to her death. All Might then had years and years to train himself into becoming an unstoppable force of nature, even going so far to basically go hide in America to have more time to do so without AfO finding and killing him before he was strong enough to win, which is unfortunately an opportunity that Deku never got to have. OfA is very much not an optimal quirk mix eugenics project like Endeavor was doing, it's a series of decisions made in extremis or on the spur of the moment based on the gut feelings and beliefs of the current holders. Kanos fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Oct 19, 2023 |
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Oct 19, 2023 12:20
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midoriya at his best was a reflection of everything admirable about hero society, a walking quirk encyclopedia who fully bought into all its ideals because he’d spent his life as an outsider looking in. the fact that following those ideals was literally, graphically killing him was a fault of that society, not himself - because the same thing happened to all might, just not as obviously he was absolutely the best inheritor of one for all, the problem is that his character and the series in general didn’t survive impact with the usual tired shounen cliches. gotta be all about the most popular character hollering and punching an invincible badguy for months on end
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Oct 19, 2023 12:28
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Also I was listening to MHA OPs and going from the intense, emotional OP about Eri to the fun, silly OP with Jiro reminded me of a post I made in the anime thread. Someone had said they wanted MHA to be more of a slice of life series and I disputed that, saying MHA has always had these big, "epic fight" arcs. It was never just humdrum school life at hero school. Someone corrected me on that and having given it more thought, I can see why people are dissatisfied with the unending focus on Action that has been going on for, what, years now. Sure we had extremely intense arcs like Kamino Ward or Overhaul but immediately following this things de-escalated, going back to trying out for hero exams or partaking in a school festival. There was a balance of cool hero stuff and fun teenager stuff which I guess has been lost with all out war starting.
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Oct 19, 2023 13:11
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Deku spent more time preparing his body for OfA than he was actually being at UA lmao, the timeline for this series is nuts.
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Oct 19, 2023 13:43
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Kanos posted:I don't know if anyone else would have been a better choice, honestly. It's likely that anyone who got OfA probably would have had to deal with the "blowing yourself to bits" phase of the power because it's just that strong at this point, and most people who aren't wired for insane heroic selflessness would have probably have started hesitating to use the power at all if doing so involved turning your arms to splinters. This is something I kinda wonder on, like yeah All Might was unusually proficient in using the strength part but also there was never a champion of justice with insane super strength wielding OFA before him, whereas it’s noted as a significant problem that Deku isn’t using OFA properly partly because his All Might hero worship means he’s thinking of it in terms of the super strongest quirk ever and not his own thing, but also because he has to learn how to use a quirk for the first time on top of that. It makes me wonder if someone like Mirio or Koichi would really struggle with using it nearly as much, because they already turned unwieldy quirks of dubious potential into cracked poo poo.
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Oct 19, 2023 14:42
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| # ? May 26, 2024 00:24 |
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https://tcbscans.com/chapters/7529/my-hero-academia-chapter-404
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