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Mr. Nice! posted:GNB has really good burst every two minutes and average burst every minute. You wouldn't use your continuation combo at all during AOE because fated circle is just too good. Hmm, I forgot about Bloodfest. Despite being my only other tank at 90, I don't play it much.  Using Bloodfest, GNB gets an average of 466.5 potency per enemy (plus one 1080 on a single enemy) per attack for 8 GCDs (oGCD damage added, but not counted as an attack). Without is 415.5 (plus one 1080 on a ST), and averaging them gives 441. For PLD I just realized I used the Requiescat bonus on the extra Holy Circles instead of Divine Might, and fixing that brought it down a bit more in line. 442.2 average potency (plus one 2450 on a ST).
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Oct 18, 2023 18:40
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Dungeons are good and they should homogenize the jobs more. MORE! Also, I like all of the revamps more than the originals with the sole exception of the healer overhaul in shb. Removing the ghosts is a minor sadness. Being a fat floaty ghost was fun, but no big deal. Failboattootoot fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 18:46
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Dungeons are fine IMO. They are bite-sized, easy content. I want more of them. First time is a slow trust run. Subsequent attempts, with or without trusts, is podcast time. Ither fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 19:01
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Homogenized classes suck because I'd rather everyone have 2-3 jobs that feel amazing and tailor made for them rather than 20 jobs that you just sorta pick whichever for roulette you haven't played in a while. I don't need to like AST or WAR or DNC or DRG because theres thousands of people who do and I can play the job I currently love
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Oct 18, 2023 19:13
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I'm a freak and I love the dungeon experience. Leveling all the trust NPCs was just me playing the game leveling jobs like I would have anyway. Losing the little bits of charm here and there like the ghosts does such though. I don't believe it would have been too hard to program the buff to trigger on the npcs and untrigger when they reached the other side. Who knows though.
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Oct 18, 2023 19:18
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With regards to the jobs, I wish the healers (especially White Mage & Scholar) had more attack buttons.
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Oct 18, 2023 19:19
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Kerrzhe posted:based on my experience of farming the Starbird the class you actually bring for speedrunning trusts is Reaper It's true. Reaper does enough AoE damage that it doesn't really matter that much that the Trusts don't.
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Oct 18, 2023 19:22
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Countblanc posted:Homogenized classes suck because I'd rather everyone have 2-3 jobs that feel amazing and tailor made for them rather than 20 jobs that you just sorta pick whichever for roulette you haven't played in a while. I don't need to like AST or WAR or DNC or DRG because theres thousands of people who do and I can play the job I currently love this is a good ideal but difficult to achieve in practice given that a lot of classes take tens of hours of playtime to actually come online and develop a real feel, imo. as a practical matter of time spent and rewarding player investment it's simpler to put the onus on the team to design every class with a relatively wide spectrum of players in mind rather than to ask players to spend hours leveling classes to figure out which one they like or redesign the game so that isn't necessary. Plus trusts and duty supports have amped up the need for job parity (now they all have to be able to function acceptably alongside dumb, slow computers). plus imo the recent trend of class homogenization seems to have less to do with gamefeel concerns (except for probably SMN) and it's more that the constraints of controllers and the dance fight paradigm and uptime and code issues (ghosting so no pets, debuff limits, etc) and the need for every class to be comp-agnostic and the need to function comparably in trusts/duty support create a venn diagram with a fairly narrow window for what's considered acceptable design by the team. Valentin fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 19:27
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Countblanc posted:Homogenized classes suck because I'd rather everyone have 2-3 jobs that feel amazing and tailor made for them rather than 20 jobs that you just sorta pick whichever for roulette you haven't played in a while. I don't need to like AST or WAR or DNC or DRG because theres thousands of people who do and I can play the job I currently love This works in a vacuum but in practice people will either exclude jobs for underperforming or people won't play jobs they like if they are (or feel like) they are underperforming. People were declaring that Scholar was doomed and hated forever because it has a skill that was good and but shiny enough. Everyone thinks they'd be fine with this until their favorite class/classes are the ones undertuned or out of meta.
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Oct 18, 2023 19:30
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There should be a “training grounds” area where you could try any class synced up to level cap with all abilities unlocked. That way you can gently caress around and get the vibe of the class before dedicating time to leveling it.
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Oct 18, 2023 19:31
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Countblanc posted:Homogenized classes suck because I'd rather everyone have 2-3 jobs that feel amazing and tailor made for them rather than 20 jobs that you just sorta pick whichever for roulette you haven't played in a while. I don't need to like AST or WAR or DNC or DRG because theres thousands of people who do and I can play the job I currently love Yeah this is cool and all and if this weren't an mmo I would agree with you. But this is an mmo so all of this is meaningless in the face of, "at some point players of this job will have to interact with other players in order to do content and if we give people a reason to be exclusive, they will. As seen in literally every other mmo on the planet and also this mmo from ARR until SHB and then also again in EW for a tier."
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Oct 18, 2023 19:32
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Ither posted:With regards to the jobs, I wish the healers (especially White Mage & Scholar) had more attack buttons. give me an aoe dot option to burn addersting on imo. it's such an annoying job trait/gauge. one trick pony
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Oct 18, 2023 19:38
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Given I do savage raids as my "main activity" in this game I appreciate dungeons as an opportunity to press my AoE buttons. That's why I love wall-to-wall pulls and anything else feels like a huge waste. As someone who's been a caster main since ARR hitting the AoE buttons really feels good. I don't mind dungeons where there's gimmicky bosses but then everyone complains about the second boss of Bardam's Mettle. You almost never get to use AoE abilities effectively in raids anymore. It used to pop up now and then, especially with SMN's Bane, but not so much these days. With that said I've been raiding on summoner since ARR and the rework is mostly great, but it needs like one more mechanic for more ability-weaving and I'm hoping Dawntrail will add one.
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Oct 18, 2023 19:47
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Jonny 290 posted:give me an aoe dot option to burn addersting on imo. it's such an annoying job trait/gauge. one trick pony Addersting feels like a completely useless mechanic outside of high-end content. Toxikon is the only ability that uses it, its single-target potency is equal to Dosis, and its AoE potency is 10 less than Dyskrasia. Sure you can use it while moving more effectively than you can use either of those, but that basically doesn't matter unless you're challenging Extreme/Savage/Ultimate content.
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Oct 18, 2023 19:52
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Anything that gets the game away from FFXI and other like minded MMOs and their "if you're not this class or meet my personal minimums you're not even human" approach to end game stuff. There are of course minimums for content, but I'm talking more "I've only ever done it this way and if you try anything different I'll quit immediately." I played a lot of XI and I think I hated everyone on it.
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Oct 18, 2023 19:56
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Failboattootoot posted:Yeah this is cool and all and if this weren't an mmo I would agree with you. But this is an mmo so all of this is meaningless in the face of, "at some point players of this job will have to interact with other players in order to do content and if we give people a reason to be exclusive, they will. As seen in literally every other mmo on the planet and also this mmo from ARR until SHB and then also again in EW for a tier." Why is this exclusive to MMOs? In literally any other game i can tell these people to gently caress off and play what i want, but in ffxiv they have absolute rule to decide which jobs are allowed to play? Getting real tired of hearing how we cant have nice things because some gamers are idiots and/or assholes.
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Oct 18, 2023 20:06
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Tengames posted:Why is this exclusive to MMOs? In literally any other game i can tell these people to gently caress off and play what i want, but in ffxiv they have absolute rule to decide which jobs are allowed to play? It isn't exclusive to MMOs but it is something that is a part of any game with a significant or entirely online presence.
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Oct 18, 2023 20:12
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quiggy posted:Addersting feels like a completely useless mechanic outside of high-end content. Toxikon is the only ability that uses it, its single-target potency is equal to Dosis, and its AoE potency is 10 less than Dyskrasia. Sure you can use it while moving more effectively than you can use either of those, but that basically doesn't matter unless you're challenging Extreme/Savage/Ultimate content. Mmm. The only thing i use it on are trash packs that are too far away to dyskrasia and i dont have icarus up, or if i HAVE to move during a boss mechanic and my dot has more than 6 seconds left or so
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Oct 18, 2023 20:16
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Tengames posted:Why is this exclusive to MMOs? In literally any other game i can tell these people to gently caress off and play what i want, but in ffxiv they have absolute rule to decide which jobs are allowed to play? Any game where you spend majority of your time online and interacting with other people will see this trend. Dungeons or equivalent content will be optimized. You'll see people discouraged/shunned if they try anything but the most optimal route. Hence why we get have dungeons that are always two wall pulls followed by a boss. We will never get dungeons with side paths because they have no value. Just look at FFLogs/WarcraftLogs to see how insane people get about data parsing. Classes that require higher skill to perform at the level of other classes, will, on average have lower parses because not everyone has high skill. Thus these classes will be shunned. People want things done fast and efficiently. Why bring a class that has a high chance of under performing when you can bring a class that has more consistent performance?
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Oct 18, 2023 20:17
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It's universal in games, it's an issue of how much the playerbase controls what happens. If you run a crummy build into a horde shooter then they might vote kick you but usually there isn't enough intimate knowledge for a group finder pressing 4 strangers together to do anything but sulk and disband if you wipe. Pick a verboten character in your League of Legend or DOTA 2 and you might send nerds into apoplectic rage, though outside of throwing they can't do much there either. Lord knows the Overwatch 2 community has a laugh(at best) when a Lifeweaver main shows up to a discussion. Run a contrarian deck in Hearthstone or Magic and you either put up the skills to back it or the other guy chuckles as he sweeps you with his meta deck. Same for fighting games. You can do what you want but so can jackasses organizing groups. In MMOs or player hosted partying, especially with widespread and extensively tested knowledge people rapidly lose the patience to give benefit of the doubt. I'm all for letting a talented player do what they want: somebody who can pull 100% out of a 90% class is gonna do better than the meta clown who eats idiot checks fore breakfast. But people are trying to stack the odds for easier clears and if you give them an excuse to pass on you they'll find it. So yeah, he's got absolute rule to not invite you or boot you. At least you can host your own group, though if the sentiment is spread enough people will be reluctant to join. This plays out at an accelerated rate in the M+ metas of WoW as an example. If there's a competitive edge in balance, it'll happen. That's why devs either need to hit some truly elegant balance or at least mitigate the damage the playerbase can do to itself and well, I think FF14 lost that battle a decade ago. This Cutscene May Not Be Skipped.
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Oct 18, 2023 20:17
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Doomykins posted:This Cutscene May Not Be Skipped. MSQ Roulette and the recent Alliance Raid Roulette changes say it all. Hell, there were even people in this very thread trying to justify removing their gear to force Crystal Tower raids. People are lovely. This is a universal constant. You cannot change it. You can only work around it and try to mitigate.
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Oct 18, 2023 20:20
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Tengames posted:Why is this exclusive to MMOs? In literally any other game i can tell these people to gently caress off and play what i want, but in ffxiv they have absolute rule to decide which jobs are allowed to play? It is very much not exclusive to mmo's. Same poo poo happens literally everywhere. Like lol for example. Sure, you can pick your pet bad champ and play it but every time you do that you're raising the odds that some insane fucker will hit you with a screed of vitriol and/or do something to gently caress the game up entirely. How much you want to put up with that is up to you, but most people aren't looking to have to deal with mad people during their leisure time.
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Oct 18, 2023 20:26
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This is going to be an extremely spicy take and should not surprise anyone but the playerbase has pretty much always been misguided at best and on average straight up wrong about the impact of "meta" picks on group success. It doesn't loving matter, play what you want. 99% of the time, the problem in any group's success on hard mechanics cannot be fixed by changing the jobs involved because the mechanics don't care if your DPS class does 1% more damage on average. As a general rule, if you can execute mechanics without deaths and damage downs, you're making the DPS check.
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Oct 18, 2023 20:45
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Olesh posted:This is going to be an extremely spicy take and should not surprise anyone but the playerbase has pretty much always been misguided at best and on average straight up wrong about the impact of "meta" picks on group success. Yes we all know that, doesn't mean you won't get blocked from joining PF groups
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Oct 18, 2023 20:47
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quiggy posted:Addersting feels like a completely useless mechanic outside of high-end content. Toxikon is the only ability that uses it, its single-target potency is equal to Dosis, and its AoE potency is 10 less than Dyskrasia. Sure you can use it while moving more effectively than you can use either of those, but that basically doesn't matter unless you're challenging Extreme/Savage/Ultimate content. As a scholar who occasionally does sage for dungeons it just feels like Inconvenient Ruin 2. Actually a lot of sage stuff is just inconvenient versions of scholar things and it's a little frustrating that they added a new healer job but didn't do anything that interesting with it. I guess Icarus and Haima/Panhaima are neat.
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Oct 18, 2023 20:50
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also while there's less reason to be as mean as people are, there's not no reason. i remember that in deltascape the group i was with did nin/drg/brd/rdm, and in alphascape the group i was with did nin/sam/mch/blm, and the latter group had way less room for error and deaths even on reclears when we were mostly bis.
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Oct 18, 2023 20:50
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God. Does anyone else here remember WotLk era Gearscore mods?
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Oct 18, 2023 20:50
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Genovera posted:As a scholar who occasionally does sage for dungeons it just feels like Inconvenient Ruin 2. Actually a lot of sage stuff is just inconvenient versions of scholar things and it's a little frustrating that they added a new healer job but didn't do anything that interesting with it. I guess Icarus and Haima/Panhaima are neat. LOL, i started as sch and then switched sge and stuck with it, and i feel the exact opposite. every time i go on sch and try to yeet shields between pulls i'm like..."poo poo, that's right. I can't do it on the move. Oh yeah and i gotta take my hand off the mouse and place soil's ground target. Ugh i hate this" I may end up playing scholar more as i get closer to Serious Endgame Raids though - i hear their sprinty ability is really good and i think pneuma is a wet fart
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Oct 18, 2023 20:52
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Mordiceius posted:
If they had variant dungeons from the beginning, Qarn would have been one of those, as opposed to what it was in ARR and what it eventually became in the update. It's the perfect example of a dungeon where they had an idea that sounded cool on paper but was annoying for most of the players who got it in roulette. Also, the rewards for solving the puzzles were terrible for a very long time. But if Qarn was a variant dungeon, there'd be all kinds of neat traps and puzzles to solve and different branching paths to explore. As far as regular dungeons being two pulls, a wall, and a boss x3, that's fine with me because I like what they've done by making them interesting visual setpieces. Sure, after running it 100 times it can get boring, but generally speaking I don't feel like I'm running down a long hallway to a room with a boss in it. I'm running through a warzone or a forest fire or I'm on the back of dragon flying over a field of golden grass.
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Oct 18, 2023 20:55
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Expedient is awesome, but you lose out on Zoe+Pneuma which is like the second strongest heal in the game. I bounce back and forth in high end stuff, but the QoL Sage has generally wins me back in the end.
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Oct 18, 2023 20:55
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Mordiceius posted:God. Does anyone else here remember WotLk era Gearscore mods? i sure fuckin' do also they didn't stop in WotLK i think they are still around, now focused on your mythic dungeon score or whatever the gently caress it is
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Oct 18, 2023 20:55
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on the other hand you gain soteria which is basically an empty ogcd slot
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Oct 18, 2023 20:56
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Isn't gearscore basically just ilvl?
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Oct 18, 2023 20:56
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Meta matters if you're in a world first prog group in the first week a savage tier or ultimate fight opens up. If you're not in that very rarified company, meta means gently caress all. You'll get further and have more fun by playing the job you enjoy well.* It's unfortunate that a lot of XIV players have internalized the idea that the meta must be followed. But at least you're less likely to encounter agro maniacs here than in certain other games? *in HW and StB there were cases where a really bad comp could actually hold you back, but that hasn't really been true for a long time unless you count intentional gimmick parties.
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Oct 18, 2023 20:57
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Expedient is awesome, but you lose out on Zoe+Pneuma which is like the second strongest heal in the game. yeah i'm aware of the pneuma combo and maybe i'll find it useful later on but i've tried it and it just doesn't wow me. The lovely smug answer is that maybe i'm just so good of a healer that i never need that fat heal, lol. if it was an ogcd i could see it being more interesting but you'd lose the zoe boost with that, so.
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Oct 18, 2023 20:59
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sge and sch are both good but sch has deploy, a cheater button
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Oct 18, 2023 21:01
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aers posted:sge and sch are both good but sch has deploy, a cheater button deploy aka i had to gcd shield heal the tank and it crit, so now I get to negate the next raidwide 
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Oct 18, 2023 21:04
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HackensackBackpack posted:If they had variant dungeons from the beginning, Qarn would have been one of those You're absolutely write. Qarn would have made a perfect Variant Dungeon. Honestly, I feel like there are quite a few dungeons that would have been more interesting as Variant Dungeons. Personally, I hope they find a way to better handle rewards for variant dungeons. They're some of my favorite content in the game - if only because it is content that my wife and I can run with just the two of us, casually, and at our own pace. We generally will follow the NPC to their chosen path until we get stumped on what to modify and then we'll just look up the solutions to the paths we're missing. Often times we find 4-6 paths and then look up the rest. It almost feels crazy to say "Well we only have to do 12 runs total of variant dungeons" because 12 runs is still a decent number. But I just wish there was any reason to keep going back. Because it really feels like after you do your 12 paths, there is zero reason to ever return.
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Oct 18, 2023 21:04
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Also when you do maps you have to keep applying Kardia when you get a portal, while Selene just hangs out and does her job. I swear that was like 50% of why I switched back to scholar (the other 50% was Ruin 2). I think maybe I've just played scholar too long and now my brains gone weird. The fact that sage is very similar but not the same gets me. Though I have had some fun doing it in dungeons just to mix things up.
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Oct 18, 2023 21:06
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Jonny 290 posted:yeah i'm aware of the pneuma combo and maybe i'll find it useful later on but i've tried it and it just doesn't wow me. The lovely smug answer is that maybe i'm just so good of a healer that i never need that fat heal, lol. If I remember you're still pretty fresh in Endwalker, so yeah, not a lot of opportunity to need a big level 90 heal yet. A recent trial for example drops everyone to 1 hp, and if they're not healed to full in 10 seconds they die. Also plenty of raidwides or mechanics that can knock of 80% of a party's hp. It's also damage neutral for a GCD and does aoe damage, so it's even a handy tool in dungeons. That said SCH and SGE can pretty much answer for each of eachother's abilities 1 for 1. Neither is a wrong choice.
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Oct 18, 2023 21:07
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