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SlowBloke posted:The Aptera is supposedly regulated as a motorcycle and all the interior pics make it look even less sturdy than an euro quad. I'm not seeing this huge hurdle if Stellantis decide to import it. The huge hurdle is they would have to chop off the fourth wheel. The Aptera is legal because it's a tricycle, and it is tricycle only so it can be called motorcycle.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:41
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Saukkis posted:The huge hurdle is they would have to chop off the fourth wheel. The Aptera is legal because it's a tricycle, and it is tricycle only so it can be called motorcycle. https://mrsc.org/explore-topics/pub...ph%20or%20less. These specs seems very tame otherwise all those aliex pseudo golf carts wouldn't be able to imported in the us. The Ami family is limited to 45 kmh, which converts to about 27 mph. A sliver over the 25mph golf car limit that can be easily sorted on the vehicle ecu. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 09:22
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The Changli is somehow legal to drive in the US, isn't it?
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Oct 18, 2023 10:22
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California and North Carolina both have carve outs for stuff like this under the banner of "low speed vehicle" which is mostly a way for rich boomers to legally drive their golf kart to the golf club and then buzzed back home again In North Carolina there are like three companies you can pay a fee and they'll rivet a VIN plate to the frame and then it's a legal vehicle so long as you have the lights and seat belts Catalina Island in California has thousands of Yamaha golf karts with ca plates and registration stickers There's probably other states with similar carve outs Renault had their goofy looking electric quadricycle in the US for a couple of years, you could rent them in San Francisco the same way you might rent one of those sidewalk scooters https://www.wired.com/2015/10/frances-funkiest-car-finally-hits-america/    Roll out of the Ami from a new factory in Morocco has been glacial, it'll be a few years until we see them, if ever, probably Hadlock fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 11:08
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Olympic Mathlete posted:In other non EV news, a rare glimpse of But it's such a sexy beast. 
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Oct 18, 2023 11:10
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Apparently every year in October they hold 24H 2CV ... which is a 24 hour endurance race for 2CVs at SPA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkkxgUwfGhI    I guess they run with C1 now as well as the C1 is a popular spec class over there
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Oct 18, 2023 11:58
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I wanna know how many laps they can do in 24h.
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Oct 18, 2023 12:07
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Looks like north of 300 laps on average, with the winner at 377 laps? Average lap time somewhere around 3:35, eyeballing it. That maths out to about 22 hours of on track time   https://results.ris-timing.be/2cvrt/24h2cv/2021/2021_24H2CV_24H_Race_H23.pdf  Dyane is a more modern body style but still the same 2cv chassis and engine. French equivalent of a type 3 beetle sorta Hadlock fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 12:19
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Hadlock posted:Looks like north of 300 laps on average, with the winner at 377 laps? Average lap time somewhere around 3:35, eyeballing it. That maths out to about 22 hours of on track time The racing 2CVs are usually running about 45-50bhp from a 602cc engine (stock power is 29bhp). They have a standardised high-performance camshaft but otherwise the inlet, exhaust, carb and compression ratio is fairly freehand. Because the running gear of a 2CV is so over-specced for their standard performance, they don't need much upgrading. The transmission is stock (and mandated), the brakes are standard (other than high-performance front pads, iirc). The standard LHM fluid in the brakes is already boil-resistant and the front discs are already force-ventilated from the cooling fa . Steering rack is stock. They do nearly all have a tweak to the front hubs to increase the caster angle. They run the later 'wide' (by 2CV standards) tyres from the AK400 van. Most changes are to the suspension - they chop the springs and wind in the pullrods to lower and stiffen them and fit adjustable dampers. The real fun (and strategy) of 2CV racing is that because power is still so low and the car still had the aerodynamics of a brick, momentum is vital and slipstreaming is key to maintaining it. You often get strings of 4 or 5 2CVs inches off each others' bumpers on straights, then at a corner the one at the back will break out, hoping that it can slingshot past the file. They all do this in sequence from the rear, leading to multiple cars in line-abreast, virtually touching wing mirrors in the corners.
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Oct 18, 2023 15:45
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BalloonFish posted:The racing 2CVs are usually running about 45-50bhp from a 602cc engine (stock power is 29bhp). They have a standardised high-performance camshaft but otherwise the inlet, exhaust, carb and compression ratio is fairly freehand.
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Oct 18, 2023 15:48
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BalloonFish posted:The real fun (and strategy) of 2CV racing is that because power is still so low and the car still had the aerodynamics of a brick, momentum is vital and slipstreaming is key to maintaining it. You often get strings of 4 or 5 2CVs inches off each others' bumpers on straights, then at a corner the one at the back will break out, hoping that it can slingshot past the file. They all do this in sequence from the rear, leading to multiple cars in line-abreast, virtually touching wing mirrors in the corners. Can I watch this somewhere?!? Edit: I'm dumb video is above
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Oct 18, 2023 15:53
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mobby_6kl posted:So.... can you do forced induction? I think that is against the rules. It's certainly against the spirit. But the Dyane did have extremely mild forced induction from the factory - the air cleaner intake was trunked from the fan casing so it got cooler and slightly pressurised air. Dyane carburettors were jetted slightly differently than 2CVs for that reason.  So you could perhaps build a supercharged racing Dyane and claim that it's merely an improved version of what Citroen built. People have built super- and turbocharged 2CVs but they tend to have problems with high EGTs which make them catch fire... 
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Oct 18, 2023 16:02
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ishikabibble posted:They're deffo not blunting new car sales, but they probably are blunting the sales of poo poo like Club Cars, John Deere, etc. The offroad only truck-like vehicle makers who make them shittier and less featured than kei trucks but sell them for 2x the price. The first part is good, I do think that could be a big or contributing motivation. Certainly one I didn't think about. I'm with Ambassador on the second half though. Safety isn't a driving factor it's a fog leaf at best for this. There's no money behind it. I've seen quite a few JDM cars in my corner of Denver and plenty of Kei trucks at home depot but I've yet to see someone take a Kei truck on the interstate. In the suburbs you can get wherever you need without it, just slow. In the mountain and Foothill communities it's similar, there's a lot of highways that are either not condusive to high speed or too congested to hit it. In the western slope anything is too far to take a Kei truck out, you don't want to go 50 miles to the supply store. But it's useful around town or around the ranch. Safety would be driven by a Mother's Against Kei Trucks group after a teenager dies in a rollover. Not some seemingly NGO organization claiming to do administrative work.
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Oct 18, 2023 17:14
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It's a 2CV, if you run a straw from the the driver's helmet to the intake and blow hard into it when you want to pass, does that count as forced induction?
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Oct 18, 2023 17:17
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Olympic Mathlete posted:
No, that's a bit of a reach. I would prefer to not double my very normal 30 minute suburban commute because my dumb little tin can can of a car can only go 28mph.
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Oct 18, 2023 21:41
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kill me now posted:No, that's a bit of a reach. I would prefer to not double my very normal 30 minute suburban commute because my dumb little tin can can of a car can only go 28mph. Maybe this lifestyle is unsustainable and should be viewed with the same incredulity as somebody who commutes 100+ miles / day.
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Oct 18, 2023 21:50
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Safety Dance posted:Maybe this lifestyle is unsustainable and should be viewed with the same incredulity as somebody who commutes 100+ miles / day. I don't think individuals are in a position to meaningfully solve systemic issues like affordable housing vs. job locations and lack of public transit between the two.
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Oct 18, 2023 21:54
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kill me now posted:No, that's a bit of a reach. I would prefer to not double my very normal 30 minute suburban commute because my dumb little tin can can of a car can only go 28mph. You'll be the first against the wall when the green revolution comes
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Oct 18, 2023 21:55
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Motronic posted:I don't think individuals are in a position to meaningfully solve systemic issues like affordable housing vs. job locations and lack of public transit between the two. You're absolutely right, but it's so tiring watching individuals cross their arms and smugly shoot down any potential progress because they can't imagine changing their lifestyle in the least.
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Oct 18, 2023 21:56
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If I need a car instead of a quadricycle so there's room for the kids does this mean I've been cucked by marketing? Anyone know a good dna test provider?
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Oct 18, 2023 22:00
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Kids, hm? <checks the "Selfish monster destroying the world" box on the form>
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Oct 18, 2023 22:09
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    My kids take up approx. 69 cubic feet of space at all times
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Oct 18, 2023 22:19
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Safety Dance posted:Maybe this lifestyle is unsustainable and should be viewed with the same incredulity as somebody who commutes 100+ miles / day. If I lived close enough that the Ami/Topolino was an option I would just ride my bike to work like I did when I was 2.8mi away from my old job. Its an answer to a problem that doesn't exist for most people. In the meantime I will just continue to drive my small 4cyl hatchback back and forth on my 24-34mi round trip commute. mobby_6kl posted:You'll be the first against the wall when the green revolution comes I'm already there. I got an iX for my wife when we had our surprise 2nd and 3rd kid at the same time. 
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Oct 18, 2023 22:21
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Safety Dance posted:Maybe this lifestyle is unsustainable and should be viewed with the same incredulity as somebody who commutes 100+ miles / day. Got 1 million so I can have a sub 180km commute round trip?
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Oct 18, 2023 23:14
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kill me now posted:No, that's a bit of a reach. I would prefer to not double my very normal 30 minute suburban commute because my dumb little tin can can of a car can only go 28mph. "I drive a thousand miles a day and haul a quarter ton of paving slabs and also carry my 5 dogs in the back there's no way I could ever use that tiny thing  " I'm going to need the people who have this line of thinking whenever small cars are pointed out that you may not be the target audience. So you don't need to feel personally attacked by their existence or by people suggesting that they're probably all the car some others would actually need for their day to day. You don't need to be the main character at all times, please have some sense when reading and replying. A bit of reading comprehension wouldn't go amiss either.
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Oct 18, 2023 23:37
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I once drove a thousand miles in one day but it was in a 190 Cosworth not a F950 Lariat King Ranch Laramie Platinum Freedom Patriot Edition
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Oct 18, 2023 23:51
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Yeah kind of frustrating that to shorten your commute to walking distance, you need a million bucks to get a 1000 sq ft 2 bedroom at any top 100 global city these days. The people who can afford the most transit oriented housing also are the most likely to buy the v8 kompressor model Very few are going to buy the Ami, unless they can get their hands on the limited edition safari model (which is a real thing)
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Oct 18, 2023 23:55
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DJ Commie posted:I once drove a thousand miles in one day but it was in a 190 Cosworth not a F950 Lariat King Ranch Laramie Platinum Freedom Patriot Edition Pshaw. Luxury. I did 1700 in a day in a Volvo 240 with cloth seats, no AC.
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Oct 18, 2023 23:58
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If the sodomizing would just come to me, I wouldn't need a car at all.
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Oct 18, 2023 23:58
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Olympic Mathlete posted:"I drive a thousand miles a day and haul a quarter ton of paving slabs and also carry my 5 dogs in the back there's no way I could ever use that tiny thing Well I was thrown off when you said "most people" when its demonstratively true that most people wouldn't want a stylish golf cart to fulfill their transportation needs. Maybe it fits your specific needs, but maybe don't be the main character either when making broad declarative statements. Also I drive a 2dr MINI for fucks sake, I AM YOUR TINY CAR PERSON.
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Oct 19, 2023 00:30
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I would love if my condo added like 3 of those for the community use. Sometimes you just need too many heavy items to carry them home, and it seems churlish to drive one of your four extremely not-efficient cars 400m to the grocery store.
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Oct 19, 2023 00:36
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Ether Frenzy posted:I would love if my condo added like 3 of those for the community use. Sometimes you just need too many heavy items to carry them home, and it seems churlish to drive one of your four extremely not-efficient cars 400m to the grocery store. If we're stuck in a car dominated society, community use electric cars wouldn't be the worst bandaid we could put on things Ambassadorofsodomy posted:If the sodomizing would just come to me, I wouldn't need a car at all. 
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Oct 19, 2023 01:30
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Olympic Mathlete posted:"I drive a thousand miles a day and haul a quarter ton of paving slabs and also carry my 5 dogs in the back there's no way I could ever use that tiny thing I'm going to need people who do this to explain why they aren't riding bicycles because thats all a person really needs day to day(*) But to not completely shitpsot, the true fact is that these microcars are actually really dire and dont support what people do day to day except in very specific circumstances - where to be completely forthright other transport solutions *would* be better. They are a niche that shouldnt actually be relevant at any point if city planning didnt suck rear end. Most people if they arent cycling or can usepublic transport would be better suited to smaller hatchbacks and wagons. (*) I'm being ridiculous to do the point, I know this isnt Denmark or Victoria in British Columbia where cycling infrastructure actually supports cycling. And nor are the posters here lunatics that think nothing of 50km rides apart from a few glaring counter examples
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Oct 19, 2023 01:34
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wow. wrong thread.
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Oct 19, 2023 01:47
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Ambassadorofsodomy posted:If the sodomizing would just come to me, I wouldn't need a car at all. Fucken oath.
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Oct 19, 2023 02:17
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Hadlock posted:Very few are going to buy the Ami, unless they can get their hands on the limited edition safari model (which is a real thing) Given the immense lead in times, Stellantis won't be crossed about it. Non-fleet sales is seven to nine months. (Source: a colleague that purchased one with the dealer running like headless chickens due to all the clients asking where are for several months, received last week with an original order date of jan 2023).
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Oct 19, 2023 06:26
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If we’re dreaming about small electrics getting imported I’d rather get that little Honda e car. Just a little bit bigger, gets 100+ miles range and can go American road speeds and frankly I think it looks better And I agree I don’t really see much of a point in a car that size. Why not just get an electric scooter with some luggage.
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Oct 19, 2023 06:32
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The Ami is makes much more sense when you consider it's mostly oriented towards fleet sales, it's the kind of thing you rent by the hour from roadside chargers in touristy places, not general purpose transportation.
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Oct 19, 2023 06:48
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ADINSX posted:
If you're commuting distance and don't need to carry much, a motorbike of some description is the superior choice. Just cut through any traffic you may find and be well on your way when everyone else hauling 4 empty seats is just seething sat in several mile long tailbacks. And this is where someone will say "but they're dangerous" and just ignore that cars make everything worse for everyone no matter what situation it may be. Less cars is a net gain, as mentioned by a few other people here recently there needs to be a push for better public transport (ANY In the case of most of American cities) plus a lot more safe active travel. Plus lower speed limits and proper driver training but that is of course madness if you ask your average driver "everything's all good lol" as they join another line of traffic moving 5mph "why would we need to improve anything generally? Just add another lane".
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Oct 19, 2023 07:31
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Kafouille posted:The Ami is makes much more sense when you consider it's mostly oriented towards fleet sales, it's the kind of thing you rent by the hour from roadside chargers in touristy places, not general purpose transportation. In this stellantis marketing blurb (which admittedly is over a year old at this point, july 2022) they're citing private ownership sales as 83%, 94%, 75%, 55% for france, italy, spain, belgium Turkey indeed has more commercial users, although simply due to the fact that they did 400 commercial orders, and private orders were limited to 50 units. And I guess 200 orders for Morocco https://www.media.stellantis.com/em-en/citroen/press/citroen-ami-success-without-borders If they somehow figure out how to add two more seats and get it crash-worthy up to ~35 or 40 mph that could be a real winner for people with kids I guess they're ramping up production from 10 to 18 to 20,000 units per year, and planning to go to 50k units next year(?)
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Oct 19, 2023 08:43
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