The US will lose WW3

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > The US will lose WW3

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Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Isn't "real life lore"... just... knowledge?

# ? Oct 19, 2023 14:30

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# ? May 28, 2024 08:54

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Frosted Flake posted:

Isn't "real life lore"... just... knowledge?

yes but for special people that have to think about everything as a video game

you know how liberals have a massive problem acknowledging history, well if you think about it that makes the real world a bit like dark souls to them, where everything has to be slowly pieced together yet always remains somewhat nebulous

# ? Oct 19, 2023 14:40

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Frosted Flake posted:

Isn't "real life lore"... just... knowledge?

folklore

# ? Oct 19, 2023 14:43

Centrist Committee: Aug 6, 2019

Gripweed posted:

ok but have you guys considered

lol I�ve never watched a politics on my youtube and this one in my recommendations too. love to live in freedomlamd baby

# ? Oct 19, 2023 14:45

Breakfast All Day: Oct 21, 2004

taiwan's grimdark origin lore (deleted scenes SPOILERS)

# ? Oct 19, 2023 14:48

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Breakfast All Day posted:

taiwan's grimdark origin lore (deleted scenes SPOILERS)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_28_incident

# ? Oct 19, 2023 14:50

Zodium: Jun 19, 2004

Trabisnikof posted:

that might be true for the steel mills, but it certainly isnt true for energy or aerospace. and even in the steel industry we didnt see real declines until the 1970s, well after the start of anti-communist cold war fever.

it isn't an ideological opposition to the soviets that made america abandon the industrial base, but instead the overarching nature of finance capitalism. your return on assets ratio looks great whenever you sell off a massive asset. the investment in maintenance or construction of new industrial capacity cant compete with the roi of paper assets and other financial trickery.

why didnt these forces impact the energy industry (and oil & gas in particular)? in part because we give O&G special tax statues that let them achieve lower costs of investment and better roi than even financial investments, but also because the most expensive capital investments, refineries, are requisite for the high roi extraction industry that is able to take place all across the globe and leverage those typical cross-border imperial benefits. the refineries themselves are teetering on collapse, because even with that core position, it still doesnt pay to maintain them, their margins are slim, and companies are trying to get out of that business. which is the pattern you'd assume from the larger trends. but its still cheaper to keep cancer alley in the US rather than ship the products in.

if anything, the traditional MIC grift and anti-communistic ideology is what kept american industry alive as long as it did. both through military spending and also through a desire for direct economic competition in countries we were economically targeting. if america couldn't provide a resource or a good the threat was the soviets might provide that instead.

absent the cold war, the Business School-facation of the MIC was able to take complete hold and we get companies like our modern Boeing.

# ? Oct 19, 2023 14:58

Centrist Committee: Aug 6, 2019

just got a flurry of push notifications that RED CHYNA IS BUILDING NUKES so the genocide in Gaza must have pushed up some propaganda timelines at the pentagon

# ? Oct 19, 2023 15:10

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Centrist Committee posted:

just got a flurry of push notifications that RED CHYNA IS BUILDING NUKES so the genocide in Gaza must have pushed up some propaganda timelines at the pentagon

Texts from your uncle are not �push notifications�

# ? Oct 19, 2023 15:12

Gripweed: Nov 8, 2018

Centrist Committee posted:

just got a flurry of push notifications that RED CHYNA IS BUILDING NUKES so the genocide in Gaza must have pushed up some propaganda timelines at the pentagon

Doesn't China already have nukes?

# ? Oct 19, 2023 15:19

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

They're making more.

# ? Oct 19, 2023 15:28

Gripweed: Nov 8, 2018

Lostconfused posted:

They're making more.

How many do they need?!

# ? Oct 19, 2023 15:39

Hatebag: Jun 17, 2008

Gripweed posted:

How many do they need?!

they're building new nuke launcher subs and long range nuke bombers in addition to hundreds of icbms, so they need new nukes to fill out their triad because they only had about 400 compared to the roughly 6000 warhead arsenals of us and russia.
they probably don't want to be entirely reliant on russia to keep the us in check as the us empire collapses and you could hardly destroy the whole world with a paltry 400 nukes

# ? Oct 19, 2023 15:45

Gripweed: Nov 8, 2018

That's 400 warheads? I might be talking out my rear end her but don't nuclear missiles carry multiple smaller warheads these days so they can saturate a whole area with explosion instead of wasting a lot of energy from one big bomb?

So 400 warheads isn't actually that many missiles.

# ? Oct 19, 2023 15:47

Centrist Committee: Aug 6, 2019

Gripweed posted:

Doesn't China already have nukes?

the point is you should fear the red menace to the east and support the forthcoming omnibus war

# ? Oct 19, 2023 16:05

cat botherer: Jan 6, 2022; I am interested in most phases of data processing.

Gripweed posted:

That's 400 warheads? I might be talking out my rear end her but don't nuclear missiles carry multiple smaller warheads these days so they can saturate a whole area with explosion instead of wasting a lot of energy from one big bomb?

So 400 warheads isn't actually that many missiles.

Yeah, they're called MIRVs (multiple independent reentry vehicles). The main goal is to be a credible way of negating antimissile systems.

# ? Oct 19, 2023 16:11

fits my needs: Jan 1, 2011; Grimey Drawer

https://x.com/Reuters/status/1715026613551653135?s=20

# ? Oct 19, 2023 16:27

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

fits my needs posted:

https://x.com/Reuters/status/1715026613551653135?s=20

bad news for China - USA has an order of magnitude more.

# ? Oct 19, 2023 16:48

Hatebag: Jun 17, 2008

cat botherer posted:

Yeah, they're called MIRVs (multiple independent reentry vehicles). The main goal is to be a credible way of negating antimissile systems.

lol the antimissile system mirvs negate is anti-proliferation treaties. they were created because treaties were signed limiting the number of carrier vehicles so instead they slap a bunch of warheads on one missile.
it's impossible to shoot down an icbm or slbm when it's coming down anyway because they're going like mach 13 or some crazy poo poo

# ? Oct 19, 2023 17:11

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

China should reach warhead parity with the US as fast as possible.

# ? Oct 19, 2023 17:21

cock hero flux: Apr 17, 2011

antimissile systems are bad and are going to at best slightly mitigate a nuclear attack, they're mostly a propaganda thing because people feel safer if there's going to at least be an attempt to prevent them from being carbonized

# ? Oct 19, 2023 17:22

Hatebag: Jun 17, 2008

the only type of nuke an antimissile system could stop would be cruise missiles (as opposed to ballistic missiles) because they only go around mach 1.5.
maybe hypersonic cruise missiles? they go about mach 5. they might not be powerful enough to carry nukes at that speed, though, idk

anyway antimissile defenses are part of a first strike package with the idea being you cripple your enemy in a surprise attack and then they can't nuke you back as effectively. they're not actually for defense

# ? Oct 19, 2023 17:29

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Centrist Committee posted:

just got a flurry of push notifications that RED CHYNA IS BUILDING NUKES so the genocide in Gaza must have pushed up some propaganda timelines at the pentagon

And one of the nukes winked at me!

# ? Oct 19, 2023 17:32

PawParole: Nov 16, 2019

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/JeanneTheoharis/status/1714808818830319640?t=bhWPPXuDjIfwWD_sgPtlXw&s=19

Does this mean draft or nat guard being called up?

# ? Oct 19, 2023 17:32

Best Friends: Nov 4, 2011

PawParole posted:

Does this mean draft or nat guard being called up?

that wording means reserve / guard.

I don�t think it�s anything meaningful. reserve and guard units and members are called up all the time. Palestine situation and American subconscious guilt have people imagining it will affect them here in America. The burger thought dimension.

# ? Oct 19, 2023 17:39

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

cock hero flux posted:

antimissile systems are bad and are going to at best slightly mitigate a nuclear attack, they're mostly a propaganda thing because people feel safer if there's going to at least be an attempt to prevent them from being carbonized

Hatebag posted:

the only type of nuke an antimissile system could stop would be cruise missiles (as opposed to ballistic missiles) because they only go around mach 1.5.
maybe hypersonic cruise missiles? they go about mach 5. they might not be powerful enough to carry nukes at that speed, though, idk

anyway antimissile defenses are part of a first strike package with the idea being you cripple your enemy in a surprise attack and then they can't nuke you back as effectively. they're not actually for defense

Nuclear armed ABM systems certainly can work against a wide variety of nuclear weapons and doesn�t have to be part of a first strike posture, see the A-35 system around Moscow.

What American military planners decided was that it was more cost effective to build more missiles and let the cities get nuked instead of investing in shelters or defensive missile systems. They used the logic that more missiles means a greater chance of destroying Soviet missiles first and thus preventing the need for the shelters or defensive systems in the first place.

# ? Oct 19, 2023 19:07

Crazycryodude: Aug 15, 2015; Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?

ABM systems could theoretically stop (or at least pull the teeth) from a strike launched by a small power with a dozen or two warheads, but it's protection against your North Koreas and Israels and South Africas rather than a major nuclear power with more than a couple dozen warheads to throw at you.

# ? Oct 19, 2023 19:11

PawParole: Nov 16, 2019

Trabisnikof posted:

Nuclear armed ABM systems certainly can work against a wide variety of nuclear weapons and doesn�t have to be part of a first strike posture, see the A-35 system around Moscow.

What American military planners decided was that it was more cost effective to build more missiles and let the cities get nuked instead of investing in shelters or defensive missile systems. They used the logic that more missiles means a greater chance of destroying Soviet missiles first and thus preventing the need for the shelters or defensive systems in the first place.

Suburbs in America were built as nuclear sponges

# ? Oct 19, 2023 19:22

Hatebag: Jun 17, 2008

Trabisnikof posted:

Nuclear armed ABM systems certainly can work against a wide variety of nuclear weapons and doesn’t have to be part of a first strike posture, see the A-35 system around Moscow.

What American military planners decided was that it was more cost effective to build more missiles and let the cities get nuked instead of investing in shelters or defensive missile systems. They used the logic that more missiles means a greater chance of destroying Soviet missiles first and thus preventing the need for the shelters or defensive systems in the first place.

i don't know how much a-35 and its successors could intercept in a defensive capacity. if it's ww3 nuke shootin time moscow's gonna have nukes coming in from at least 4 countries, all of which would be shooting icbms with mirvs. i doubt it could stop them because there would be hundreds of warheads coming in. seems like part of a first strike system

# ? Oct 19, 2023 19:24

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

PawParole posted:

Suburbs in America were built as nuclear sponges

yeah the american sprawl is certainly tied to the official abandonment of civil defense strategies, obviously not entirely, but it was a factor.

there was a short while there in the 50-60s when american civil defense planners were vaguely considering building nuclear powered bomb shelters for all the people in NYC, for example. it would have been a massive underground complex with subway station sized entrances every few blocks. obviously we decided it was "cheaper" to just build more missiles instead, but it is an interesting what-if

http://atomic-skies.blogspot.com/2013/09/rock-to-hide-me.html

# ? Oct 19, 2023 19:37

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Hatebag posted:

i don't know how much a-35 and its successors could intercept in a defensive capacity. if it's ww3 nuke shootin time moscow's gonna have nukes coming in from at least 4 countries, all of which would be shooting icbms with mirvs. i doubt it could stop them because there would be hundreds of warheads coming in. seems like part of a first strike system

i mean, the soviets never had a first strike policy, only america has ever considered nuclear first strikes. so the A-35 system was part of a defensive system.

sure its likely it would have been overwhelmed, especially by MIRVs, but nuclear ABMs are fundamentally better able to intercept and defend than non-nuclear ABMs. they do provide defensive capabilities by mitigating the first strike by the aggressor.

# ? Oct 19, 2023 19:43

Hatebag: Jun 17, 2008

Trabisnikof posted:

i mean, the soviets never had a first strike policy, only america has ever considered nuclear first strikes. so the A-35 system was part of a defensive system.

sure its likely it would have been overwhelmed, especially by MIRVs, but nuclear ABMs are fundamentally better able to intercept and defend than non-nuclear ABMs. they do provide defensive capabilities by mitigating the first strike by the aggressor.

yeah it's pretty telling that the abm treaty limited the us & ussr to one abm site each so the soviets put theirs up around moscow and the us put theirs at an icbm facility lol

interesting stuff with missile killers:

quote:

In the 1960s Project Defender and the Ballistic Missile Boost Intercept (BAMBI) concept replaced land-launched Nike missiles with missiles to be launched from satellite platforms orbiting directly above the USSR. Instead of nuclear warheads, the BAMBI missiles would deploy huge wire meshes designed to disable Soviet ICBMs in their early launch phase (the "boost phase"). No solution to the problem of how to protect the proposed satellite platforms against attack was found, however, and the program was canceled in 1968.

i love the idea of just dropping a big net on an icbm from space

# ? Oct 19, 2023 19:58

101923_2nd: Oct 19, 2023

stretched thin abroad, domestic chaos at home

# ? Oct 19, 2023 20:29

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Hatebag posted:

yeah it's pretty telling that the abm treaty limited the us & ussr to one abm site each so the soviets put theirs up around moscow and the us put theirs at an icbm facility lol

interesting stuff with missile killers:

i love the idea of just dropping a big net on an icbm from space

yeah by the time of star wars, the US ABM systems were fully grifts.

my personal favorite was Project White Horse, a plan to put linear particle accelerators in space. of course we would have to make every single component 10x more powerful, 10x smaller, and 10x more efficient for it to even be possible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm6B3edLyec

but hey they made a top secret propaganda ad about it with Charlton Heston as the narrator!

# ? Oct 19, 2023 20:50

Stairmaster: Jun 8, 2012

Frosted Flake posted:

Isn't "real life lore"... just... knowledge?

i think its what one would call a joke

# ? Oct 19, 2023 20:57

Delta-Wye: Sep 29, 2005

tip

of

the

spear

# ? Oct 19, 2023 21:01

captainbananas: Sep 11, 2002; Ahoy, Captain!

Delta-Wye posted:

tip

of

the

spear

modern hardware and code will be the sneaky route to disarmament. ancient-rear end FORTRAN or whatever the gently caress SACCS was built on is orders of magnitude more stablethan some fuckin python quilted together from stackoverflow and khan academy tutorials courtesy of BAH's team of crackpot software engineers led by shrike82

# ? Oct 19, 2023 21:12

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

Delta-Wye posted:

tip

of

the

spear

TBF, they prefer lower tech solutions because of EMP concerns.

Though a floppy disk is not what I would call robust.

# ? Oct 19, 2023 21:12

Centrist Committee: Aug 6, 2019

captainbananas posted:

modern hardware and code will be the sneaky route to disarmament. ancient-rear end FORTRAN or whatever the gently caress SACCS was built on is orders of magnitude more stablethan some fuckin python quilted together from stackoverflow and khan academy tutorials courtesy of BAH's team of crackpot software engineers led by shrike82

# ? Oct 19, 2023 21:14

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# ? May 28, 2024 08:54

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

They should use DVD-RW IMO.

# ? Oct 19, 2023 21:15

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > The US will lose WW3

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