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This thread tried hope and got covid. Try again and we're getting something worse.
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Oct 20, 2023 10:21
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That thing: Keith 2024
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Oct 20, 2023 10:22
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Tesseraction posted:Fianna is fail but that's a fine Gail. That's how I nmemonic the two parties. At least your president fuckin' rules. Vote Sinn Féin: Chaos is a ladder. 
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Oct 20, 2023 10:24
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Mint isn't a fruit. Is there a way to express this information visually, perhaps in the form of overlapping shapes
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Oct 20, 2023 10:26
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Looking forward to "the 2024 election is the most important of our lifetimes" analysis.
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Oct 20, 2023 10:27
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Tesseraction posted:That thing: Keith 2024 The Novel Staromervirus
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Oct 20, 2023 10:29
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domhal posted:Looking forward to "the 2024 election is the most important of our lifetimes" analysis. Jeremy Corbyn somehow wins 400 seats despite only running in Islington N
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Oct 20, 2023 10:31
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Condoning genocide and war crimes only lost the oval office 1% https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1715293764585980001 gently caress this country
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Oct 20, 2023 10:33
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Eh I think the public is still confused what's going on given the wall to wall media screaming that Hamas did three 9/11s and the push to downplay the hospital sitch. Might need more time to permeate the particularly thick skulls of the rotulace.
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Oct 20, 2023 10:36
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Gasmask posted:You can’t take even the slightest joy in watching tories lose massively safe seats? You’re letting perfect be the enemy of good. With Keir it's perfectly understandable. I mean I agree with not letting perfect be the enemy of good, but there are limits to that saying and Keir broke those limits like star trek breaks lightspeed.
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Oct 20, 2023 10:37
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Tesseraction posted:Eh I think the public is still confused what's going on given the wall to wall media screaming that Hamas did three 9/11s and the push to downplay the hospital sitch. Might need more time to permeate the particularly thick skulls of the rotulace. It was 15 9/11s apparently, so says Joe Brandon a man with soup for brains.
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Oct 20, 2023 10:37
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https://twitter.com/MichaelTakeMP/status/1715271272148398226 e: Ooops, I forgot to paste the punchline - https://twitter.com/LewisJWarner/status/1715207893828452455 I found a nice lolnugget for people to laugh at 
fuctifino fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 10:37
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fuctifino posted:Condoning genocide and war crimes only lost the oval office 1% Is that an accurate conclusion to draw? I ask because so many people now will only be voting Labour because they're not the tories, or are the only viable vote to get a tory out of a seat. I don't like him, I don't like what he's said, but in my (Labour) constituency a vote cast for a less cunty alternative would make it more likely the tories would get in. In 2019, 7% sat between Lab/Con compared to 40% between Lab/LD.
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Oct 20, 2023 10:41
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National Lib Dems are loving awful I hate them so drat much.
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Oct 20, 2023 10:43
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Tesseraction posted:Jeremy Corbyn somehow wins 400 seats despite only running in Islington N Less than 418 smdh.
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Oct 20, 2023 10:44
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Tesseraction posted:National Lib Dems are loving awful I hate them so drat much. Excuse me but my dad's copy of Lib Dem News tells me that Davey Edwards came out on stage to rapturous applause. Winning here!
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Oct 20, 2023 10:45
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What actually are labour policies right now? Other than 'not the current blue tories, just previous blue tories' I will not be voting for them at a general election (or the actual tories or the yellow tories) but what policies and things do they stand for if you were to vote for them in an election or a by-election that makes them a better alternative to tories? Have they made any concrete statements?
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Oct 20, 2023 10:47
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They have promised GrowthTM.
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Oct 20, 2023 10:48
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I don't think they've made any statements that they haven't walked back immediately after, so even if a statement alleges to be concrete it's that aero concrete that the schools are made out of. E: yeah I guess you could say their pitch is that there is no need for specific changes, once they're in charge everything will magically work and the problems will solve themselves because Growth will happen.
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Oct 20, 2023 10:50
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I don’t know what would actually be good from this thread’s perspective any more. What hope is there if everything is poo poo no matter who you vote for? What are you actually hoping will happen that would make things better? Or is it just terminal doomerbrain all the way down?
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Oct 20, 2023 10:54
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Modern Video Games posted:What actually are labour policies right now? Other than 'not the current blue tories, just previous blue tories' *war crimes not included Gasmask posted:What hope is there if everything is poo poo no matter who you vote for?
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Oct 20, 2023 10:55
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Gasmask posted:I don’t know what would actually be good from this thread’s perspective any more. What hope is there if everything is poo poo no matter who you vote for? What are you actually hoping will happen that would make things better? Or is it just terminal doomerbrain all the way down? I do not think I am terminal doomerbrained, I just wanted to know why Labour winning was better. What are they offering the public that will improve conditions for the many? What can we say for certain that Labour will do. What policies they have announced that their party will follow. What things voted on by the membership at the conference they were going to take onboard. What pledges they have made to enact. Just simple stuff really.
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Oct 20, 2023 10:57
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Gasmask posted:I don’t know what would actually be good from this thread’s perspective any more. What hope is there if everything is poo poo no matter who you vote for? What are you actually hoping will happen that would make things better? Or is it just terminal doomerbrain all the way down? A political party that gives some impression of being actually committed to making things better, which the current labour party seems to be trying very hard to not be. Being as it is, stuffed with new labour ghouls, the shadow chancellor who hates the welfare state, a health secretary who wants to futher privatize the NHS and fix things with "AI", a leader who has all the moral fortitude of a waterlogged windsock, and which has consistently tried to distance itself from the policy positions of the previous leadership which would have made my life a lot better had they been implemented and has devoted a lot of effort to marginalizing left wing ideas altogether. What else am I supposed to think other than that they just don't like me and don't want my life to improve? Yeah it loving sucks that there's nobody to vote for who seems like they do want things to get any better, but I can't respond to that by just imagining that one of the parties is different to what they plainly appear to be when you look at them? It shouldn't be a big ask for a political party to look at the state of the country and say "we should fix the problems with it" but apparently it is still beyond any of them to do that. I don't think that makes me unreasonably pessimistic, I think that means we just have loving poo poo politicans.
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Oct 20, 2023 11:00
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:Is that an accurate conclusion to draw? It's not. I'm posting a lot out of anger and frustration at the moment. I don't know what I was expecting to be honest. It just pains me to see keith on the verge of a landslide victory for doing absolutely nothing except being pro war crimes. And I'm actually more terrified of a competent fascist oval office like Keith in charge than the incompetent Tories, and I never thought I'd ever see myself typing out those words in that order.....
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Oct 20, 2023 11:01
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What would be good is a party with stated and demonstrably held progressive and ideally socialist values, which if elected would begin the long and gruelling task of rebuilding this shattered country after decades of tory and tory-lite mismanagement. But when we had that, it was torn to shreds by the media and traitors within, so now our only options are literally Tories and figuratively Tories.
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Oct 20, 2023 11:02
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Gasmask posted:You can’t take even the slightest joy in watching tories lose massively safe seats? You’re letting perfect be the enemy of good. Sunak was an improvement on Boris Johnson until it turned out he wasn't.
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Oct 20, 2023 11:03
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Gasmask posted:I don’t know what would actually be good from this thread’s perspective any more. What hope is there if everything is poo poo no matter who you vote for? What are you actually hoping will happen that would make things better? Or is it just terminal doomerbrain all the way down? The best* outcome at the next election is probably a Labour minority that relies on other parties and gives the SCG some influence, leading to PR being brought in and the ultimate fragmentation of Labour and the Tories into smaller parties for the next time out. Also at least one more Green seat would be nice. But even that means four/five years of PM Kieth doing gently caress all to fix anything, and then probably a bland blob of centrist-Labour and centrist-Tory and Lib Dem running things after that. I don't see any likely route from where we are now to an actual good government. 2017 was that chance and it won't come again for a long time. *least shite
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Oct 20, 2023 11:04
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Modern Video Games posted:I do not think I am terminal doomerbrained, I just wanted to know why Labour winning was better. What are they offering the public that will improve conditions for the many? What can we say for certain that Labour will do. What policies they have announced that their party will follow. What things voted on my the membership at the conference they were going to take onboard. What pledges they have made to enact. Here are some of the policies that Labour have publicly committed to: Increasing income tax on the top 5% of earners. Abolishing Universal Credit and reforming the welfare system. Common ownership of public services. Can I guarantee that they will deliver on all of these? No. But these policies are still much more appealing that the alternative hellscape offered by the demonstrable psychopaths in the Tory party. If they don’t appeal to you, fine. But I ask again, what are you hoping for instead and how do we make that happen?
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Oct 20, 2023 11:06
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Honestly I think you're expecting a level of joviality from this thread that might be expected more if the tories were doing something really loving funny* but given the events in Gaza this thread is going to be a little less chipper than usual. *stupid
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Oct 20, 2023 11:11
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Gasmask posted:Here are some of the policies that Labour have publicly committed to: Increasing income tax on the top 5% of earners. Abolishing Universal Credit and reforming the welfare system. Common ownership of public services. Hi, two of those policies have been formally dumped.
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Oct 20, 2023 11:12
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Gasmask posted:Here are some of the policies that Labour have publicly committed to: Increasing income tax on the top 5% of earners. Abolishing Universal Credit and reforming the welfare system. Common ownership of public services. I'm not sure if you've heard about the value and quality of Keir's pledges... but.... fuctifino fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 11:13
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And direct contraditctions like those are what make it extremely difficult to take anything they say seriously, because they keep doing it. So what are you left with other than what you want to believe is true? Because I think demonstrably you can't put much stock in what they say because they keep saying the opposite shortly afterwards.
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Oct 20, 2023 11:15
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Gasmask posted:Here are some of the policies that Labour have publicly committed to: Increasing income tax on the top 5% of earners. Abolishing Universal Credit and reforming the welfare system. Common ownership of public services. I do not believe them. If they abolish Universal Credit, it will be to replace it with something worse, or nothing at all.
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Oct 20, 2023 11:16
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Now that's just not true. He hasn't said that Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself.
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Oct 20, 2023 11:16
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Gasmask posted:Here are some of the policies that Labour have publicly committed to: Increasing income tax on the top 5% of earners. Abolishing Universal Credit and reforming the welfare system. Common ownership of public services. I like the sound of increasing tax on the rich. Did they say how much by? Does common ownership mean nationalising all the utilities? I love that too - especially taking back power, water, trains, buses and housing. Did they say how they will reform welfare? If they get in and do not do any of this, though, then what was the point? The only way I know of us to make changes electorally is that we have to be offered something people want and the media has to be on our side. I feel a little weirded out that I am just supposed to vote for Labour because they are not Tories. That means I am not really given a choice, and I thought voting was about having my choice. I do like the idea of those above policies if they are enacted, but if there is no guarantee then I have just been lied to and helped enable a party who could do whatever they wish. This might just be me being dumb here, but I do not really get the voting system and struggle to figure out why I have to vote for Labour. If it is because 'we get the tories out' then why did those same people asking me now go against their own advice and not do it in 2017 or 2019?
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Oct 20, 2023 11:17
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Keir is an authoritarian fascist with a passion for punishing people. Just look at his history, what he's focused on, who he's friends with and what his values are. From his membership of the trilateral commission to the 'ex' senior MI6 spooks who are filling up the ranks of senior Labour staff. Keir tried and failed to prosecuted student protester Alfie Meadows three times for the crime of having his skull smashed by a police baton. It takes a certain kind of oval office to do that. Look at what he promised, and look at what he's delivered. If people genuinely believe that Keir's Labour is going to offer anything to the left of Cameron in 2015, then prepare yourselves to be bitterly disappointed.
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Oct 20, 2023 11:19
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Gasmask posted:Here are some of the policies that Labour have publicly committed to: Increasing income tax on the top 5% of earners. Abolishing Universal Credit and reforming the welfare system. Common ownership of public services. Can you guarantee that they'll deliver on any of them? No. But what you can say is that Labour have publicly committed to many other decent sounding policies and then reversed that commitment, sometimes within hours. I wouldn't trust them if they made a policy commitment to have the sun rise tomorrow. You talk about not making perfect the enemy of good. The problem is that a Labour victory is not good. In fact, long term it's probably worse than a Tory victory because Keith and his scum will use the validation to rid the party of any remaining left wing influences. At that point our best case is neoliberalism forever where the only thing that will ever change is the colour of the rosettes. Our worst case is the Tories go full fascist and win. So bluntly, gently caress off with your talk of "perfect is the enemy of good". It's like telling a rape victim to look on the bright side, at least they weren't murdered.
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Oct 20, 2023 11:25
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Gasmask posted:I don’t know what would actually be good from this thread’s perspective any more. What hope is there if everything is poo poo no matter who you vote for? What are you actually hoping will happen that would make things better? Or is it just terminal doomerbrain all the way down? I'd happily cheer on a Millaband style Labour. Far from ideal but a much better alternative to Tories. Starmers Labour seems to me very similar to Camerons conservatives though. The only hope is that labour shift to the left again while in power. Something Starmer seems determined to prevent by chasing out all remaining aspects of left that still cling on in the party. Jedit posted:
That's a loving gross analogy dude.
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Oct 20, 2023 11:26
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"shaking off the fleas"
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Oct 20, 2023 11:28
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Jedit posted:It's like telling a rape victim to look on the bright side, at least they weren't murdered. No yeah it is just like that to be fair
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Oct 20, 2023 11:29
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