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SirFozzie posted:So, what is the new new new new plan? (did I put enough "new" in there? Never mind Plan A (McCarthy), Plan B(Scalise), Plan C(Jim Jordan) We're on what, Plan G? H, with a trip back to Plan C? As of right now we're doing the patented Jordan move of ignoring reports and evidence that something bad is happening, and pressing through. The question is how many votes he can run before either the opposition gives in, or his support fully collapses. My guess is that we get one or two more votes before there's a full collapse of the hold your nose and vote Jordan block.
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Oct 20, 2023 06:55
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:McHenry Speakership dream dead about 2 hours after it was born. Who are the R noes on McHenry? All the usual suspects? They don’t need to compromise with Dems to get to 217 so it’s baffling that they can’t get even this done among themselves.
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Oct 20, 2023 07:01
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yronic heroism posted:Who are the R noes on McHenry? All the usual suspects? They don’t need to compromise with Dems to get to 217 so it’s baffling that they can’t get even this done among themselves. MTG, Gaetz and Bobert all publicly said no. There were a few others that I forget.
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Oct 20, 2023 07:05
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yronic heroism posted:Who are the R noes on McHenry? All the usual suspects? They don’t need to compromise with Dems to get to 217 so it’s baffling that they can’t get even this done among themselves. The McHenry play ran into issues from both sides of the caucus. Madmen hat that he's not willing to kill a baby and drink it's blood on the floor just to get a rise out of the Dems. "Moderates" saw it as a play to get Speaker Jordan in January. Those in the middle were pissed about kicking the can down the road. Also it doesn't seem like McHenry has much if any personal support, which is kind of necessary when essentially making him Speaker of the House.
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Oct 20, 2023 07:13
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I AM GRANDO posted:I’d like to know more about these threats of personal violence Jordan is apparently delivering to members of congress. That seems like a very bad strategy for winning people over. Maybe he's threatening to Gianforte them
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Oct 20, 2023 08:13
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James Garfield posted:I mean it's people making death threats because Hannity is calling those representatives uniparty swamp RINOs. It's not like Jim Jordan is personally calling them because the minimum age for congress is 25 I thought one of the republicans said that he was threatening to hurt people and that’s why she changed her vote. The news story was about her getting death threats from her constituents afterward, but as I take another look, the wording of the statement is ambiguous.
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Oct 20, 2023 14:00
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I AM GRANDO posted:I thought one of the republicans said that he was threatening to hurt people and that’s why she changed her vote. The news story was about her getting death threats from her constituents afterward, but as I take another look, the wording of the statement is ambiguous. From what I've gathered the entire core of Jordan's pitch to be Speaker is currently "I wanna be Speaker and if I don't get the votes everyone is going to know that YOU hate the Republican party/Trump/etc".
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Oct 20, 2023 14:39
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So, like, all "because these are very stupid people" joking aside (because while that is true, stupidity informs means, not ends, generally.), why the gently caress does Jordan or anyone else even want to be speaker? Like I don't understand it. At the end of the day it's not truly that meaningfully powerful of a position - particularly given the looming election and the general ungovernable nature of the GOP at this juncture, especially in the house - and even if it were, it's not like a necessary stepping stone towards the presidency. Like I don't understand, joking and hyperbole aside, why any of these idiots are subjecting themselves to this humiliation. You stand to gain very little, and you stand to lose basically everything.
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Oct 20, 2023 14:45
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I AM GRANDO posted:I thought one of the republicans said that he was threatening to hurt people and that’s why she changed her vote. The news story was about her getting death threats from her constituents afterward, but as I take another look, the wording of the statement is ambiguous. It's probably not likely that we will get a verbatim transcript of what going on behind closed doors. I think you can infer though that Jordan is using Hannity and Trump to make threats of cutting off their grift train and primary attacks on their position. However, for many 'purple district' republicans those are really hollow threats because there is no primary hard right Trumpy challenger that can get those seats. It's the compete opposite of a power play , the R's actually needs those people to stay in power for the republican party to be relevant and I bet they are hearing loudly from their constituents that they won't countenance an Insurrectionist for Speaker yes vote. Jordan is playing the far rights, 'my way or the highway' bomb throwing but that just doesn't seem likely to work this time around. Possibly influenced by the fact that the Trump money machine seems to be running dry as it diverts everything to his legal defenses and promises of making it good on the back end when he's president look pretty iffy as his cases spiral out of control and dominate the news cycle.
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Oct 20, 2023 14:49
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:So, like, all "because these are very stupid people" joking aside (because while that is true, stupidity informs means, not ends, generally.), why the gently caress does Jordan or anyone else even want to be speaker? Like I don't understand it. At the end of the day it's not truly that meaningfully powerful of a position - particularly given the looming election and the general ungovernable nature of the GOP at this juncture, especially in the house - and even if it were, it's not like a necessary stepping stone towards the presidency. The Speaker basically rules the House and has far more power than leaders in the Senate. There's no filibuster and the Speaker can prevent bills from even coming up for a vote. Additionally, all spending bills have to start in the House. The Speaker is a very powerful and prestigious position that gives you more direct influence on legislation that any single other position in government except for arguably the President due to his veto power. The chaos and weakening of the Speaker position recently are all self-inflicted wounds by Kevin McCarthy.
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Oct 20, 2023 14:49
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The Speaker basically rules the House and has far more power than leaders in the Senate. There's no filibuster and the Speaker can prevent bills from even coming up for a vote. I know that, but like you're not going to pass poo poo right now anyway, even if the House was functioning normally with this level of GOP/Dem split. And the GOP is never interested in governing, anyway. Plus that sort of things is done along party lines so I can see why the GOP as a party cares about holding the speakership, which they do, but frankly I fail to see how/why it matters who's butt is in that seat. Like it just does not seem remotely worth it right now.
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Oct 20, 2023 14:51
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:So, like, all "because these are very stupid people" joking aside (because while that is true, stupidity informs means, not ends, generally.), why the gently caress does Jordan or anyone else even want to be speaker? Like I don't understand it. At the end of the day it's not truly that meaningfully powerful of a position - particularly given the looming election and the general ungovernable nature of the GOP at this juncture, especially in the house - and even if it were, it's not like a necessary stepping stone towards the presidency. Jordan wants the job for a few reasons. 1. Power. Jordan is 100% the type of Republican who wants power purely to enforce his ways on everyone else. 2. Visibility. I don't think Jordan is capable of walking away from a camera or microphone without making a comment first. 3. MAGA Bullshit. Jordan is one of the few that are in soooo deep they have to do everything they can to keep reasonable people away from positions of power so his own actions are covered. Note: None of these are reasons that would make him an effective Speaker. If he got the job most likely it'd just be Jordan on Fox telling everyone how bad the Democrats are while the House is completely paralyzed by his inability to get the votes put together for anything.
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Oct 20, 2023 14:58
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:I know that, but like you're not going to pass poo poo right now anyway, even if the House was functioning normally with this level of GOP/Dem split. And the GOP is never interested in governing, anyway. Plus that sort of things is done along party lines so I can see why the GOP as a party cares about holding the speakership, which they do, but frankly I fail to see how/why it matters who's butt is in that seat. You're not going to pass things right now, but there is going to be negotiating if the House and Senate disagree and since spending bills have to start in the House, the Speaker is going to set the tenor of those negotiations and still have an impact. Also, there is an election next year. Republicans might win the Senate or Presidency and being Speaker at that point will give you a huge amount of influence on U.S. policy. Everyone sort of hopes that this current situation will also result in rules/popular opinion that prevent the Speaker from being dumped by a single person again. That means that you can be the Speaker without hanging by a thread.
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Oct 20, 2023 15:01
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Thanks, I suppose it makes a bit more sense, although I still can't help but feel even if I were Jordan I would not find it worth it. Feel like there's better ways to achieve the goals of power and visibility. But yeah, that's I suppose where 'is an idiot' and 'has severe personality defects' come into play.
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Oct 20, 2023 15:04
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I think the more narrow, personal context plays in to it a lot more than the national implications. For representatives their job is to be a representative in the house (theoretically, let's just ignore "go on Fox and spew bullshit" as a career goal). If that's what you do as a job then the speaker of the house is in charge of where you work. If you're, say, a power seeking self-aggrandizing rear end in a top hat that sees nothing beyond yourself then that's the person in charge, and you want to be the person in charge.
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Oct 20, 2023 15:14
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Retro42 posted:Jordan wants the job for a few reasons. 4. 3rd in the Line of Succession. He's the type of rear end in a top hat who would hope and pray some MAGA rear end in a top hat would try to off Biden and Harris.
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Oct 20, 2023 15:14
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Zapp Brannigan posted:4. 3rd in the Line of Succession. He's the type of rear end in a top hat who would hope and pray some MAGA rear end in a top hat would try to off Biden and Harris. I'm not entirely sure Jordan would limit his actions to something so passive
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Oct 20, 2023 15:15
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Retro42 posted:Jordan wants the job for a few reasons. The senate and the presidential veto both stand in the way of him doing any horrible stuff, but he still should never be in the discussion for the gavel honestly. Its too bad the Dems screwed up New York so bad though kind of funny that one of the guys the GOP got in there is one of Jordans loudest critics on any side of the aisle.
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Oct 20, 2023 15:25
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The 3rd public humiliation of Gym Jordan will begin soon.
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Oct 20, 2023 15:32
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Zapp Brannigan posted:4. 3rd in the Line of Succession. He's the type of rear end in a top hat who would hope and pray some MAGA rear end in a top hat would try to off Biden and Harris. 2nd. First is the VP. 3rd in line is the President pro tempore of the Senate, Patty Murray
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Oct 20, 2023 15:35
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Rigel posted:The 3rd public humiliation of Gym Jordan will begin soon. What's the over/under for number of votes for Jordan today?
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Oct 20, 2023 15:37
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Randalor posted:What's the over/under for number of votes for Jordan today? The over-under is 217.
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Oct 20, 2023 15:38
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Randalor posted:What's the over/under for number of votes for Jordan today? He had 198 yesterday. I bet we could go as low as 190.
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Oct 20, 2023 15:39
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Randalor posted:What's the over/under for number of votes for Jordan today? Most likely he loses more votes. I haven't really seen any information since last night though regarding the numbers. The overall impression is he's pushing this votes purely because the attempt to empower McHenry fell apart and he wants to leverage that into "Vote me because there isn't another option"
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Oct 20, 2023 15:41
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Morrow posted:The over-under is 217. Oh! I'll take that! Under! Definitely under!
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Oct 20, 2023 15:42
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Cimber posted:2nd. First is the VP. 3rd in line is the President pro tempore of the Senate, Patty Murray Well, yes that is what I meant, but thanks for the clarification.
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Oct 20, 2023 15:49
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lol, Kevin McCarthy is being forced to humiliate himself by nominating Gym
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Oct 20, 2023 15:50
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They've got McCarthy giving the Jordan nomination speech today.
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Oct 20, 2023 15:51
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 15:51
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This is just absurd, McCarthy is being openly mocked on the floor as he tries to say with a straight face that Jordan is an effective legislator who listens to colleagues and can reach a compromise.
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Oct 20, 2023 15:53
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Reek pleads "join the house of Jordon!"
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Oct 20, 2023 15:54
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Rigel posted:This is just absurd, McCarthy is being openly mocked on the floor as he tries to say with a straight face that Jordan is an effective legislator who listens to colleagues and can reach a compromise. I can't tell if McCarthy is trying to make Jordan look good or bad. Could just be McCarthy's complete inability to tell the truth though.
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Oct 20, 2023 15:55
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Somebody said it earlier this week in the thread, but I can't find it to quote it. I don't understand how the Republicans can be considered a unified caucus at this point. Democrats are a unified plurality on these votes while Republicans are really two right wing parties, one more extreme than the other. I know it won't happen, but congress needs a rule that if the party can't agree on a speaker than it has to dissolve in the house and reform as separate parties to show where the actual vote counts lie.
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Oct 20, 2023 16:15
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 16:16
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gurragadon posted:Somebody said it earlier this week in the thread, but I can't find it to quote it. I don't understand how the Republicans can be considered a unified caucus at this point. Democrats are a unified plurality on these votes while Republicans are really two right wing parties, one more extreme than the other. I mean, 96% of Republicans agreed on not vacating McCarthy. It is just a small fraction that wanted to. There's not a ton of ideological issues in the Speaker's race. It's basically a combination of personal grudges, people thinking that X will embarrass them, and disagreements on what tactics work best.
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Oct 20, 2023 16:18
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:So, like, all "because these are very stupid people" joking aside (because while that is true, stupidity informs means, not ends, generally.), why the gently caress does Jordan or anyone else even want to be speaker? Like I don't understand it. At the end of the day it's not truly that meaningfully powerful of a position - particularly given the looming election and the general ungovernable nature of the GOP at this juncture, especially in the house - and even if it were, it's not like a necessary stepping stone towards the presidency. No, it's still a pretty powerful position. Control over committee appointments and the ability to prevent bills you don't like from going up for a vote are fairly nice powers to have. The powers of the Speaker aren't really related to passing poo poo.
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Oct 20, 2023 16:20
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This is also a product of the House being almost perfectly balanced this term. Normally the majority's edge is in the low double digits; you would need a lot more than 8 assholes to jam it up if that were the case. The freedom caucus has been around since the early 2010s but this is the first time they've actually had the power to singlehandedly gently caress the entire Congress
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Oct 20, 2023 16:21
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 16:23
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I mean, 96% of Republicans agreed on not vacating McCarthy. Politics is a combination of ideological issues and the social work required to accomplish those ideological positions. If the party has so many personal divides that they cannot elect a leader in the house, they are not a unified party in the house. It could be 99% of Republicans and one holdout preventing it and it wouldn't be any different. They are not unified to the level they need to be to even lead the government because they can't decide who is leader.
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Oct 20, 2023 16:25
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Main Paineframe posted:No, it's still a pretty powerful position. Control over committee appointments and the ability to prevent bills you don't like from going up for a vote are fairly nice powers to have. The powers of the Speaker aren't really related to passing poo poo. Yes and No. A moderate or coalition Speaker could easily put forward bills that would pass the House BUT would likely not have majority Republican support. As things are now, the Speaker is beholden to fringes of the party in ways that makes the job pointless for making sure things pass. Which at the core is the real issue for the GOP. The different wings of the party are so opposed that making a functional Republican majority is almost impossible except for rare issues. Edit: 19 No votes and only in the L's. Anyone know which votes flipped to no? Retro42 fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 16:26
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