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DACK FAYDEN posted:honestly this is one of the most satisfying single-point definitions I've seen, sucks to be slay the spire I guess
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Oct 20, 2023 06:52
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| # ? May 27, 2024 09:05 |
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Eh, bosses existing is ok. If the last level was much the same as every other one it'd be a huge letdown. Cryptark tries to just turn it all up to 11 which works due to the ammo/economy system, but even then it wasn't remarkable. For rift wizard, at that point in the game, what can even truely challenge a build that was bulletproof five+ rifts ago? 1k hp enemies with 200% resists? Stripping the player of all items including mana pots? A single enemy that teleports around creating new terrain and chaff is tame in comparison.
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Oct 20, 2023 07:21
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SKULL.GIF posted:I've noticed kind of a soft pattern among roguelikes/roguelites where the random encounters are significantly harder than the actual designed bosses. For Rift Wizard in particular, Mordred is very vulnerable to weakness exposing (e..g, Aether Daggers) and has a crippling weakness of only acting once per turn. He's much less threatening than facing down five aether fiends or void titans or whatever you've been fighting in rifts 20-24. Haven't played Rift Wizard, but I've noticed this on occasion in some other games I've played, I think it's a consequence of rigorously testing every boss to make sure they're all beatable on any difficulty, but being slightly less diligent with the 'regular' enemies and failing to consider how their gimmicks interact with the difficulty modifiers. I remember one game where, prior to a rebalance, there was an enemy that was a relatively trivial speedbump on lower difficulties but pretty much an instant game-ender if it ever showed up in higher difficulties. It was a walking bomb with a 4-turn lifespan, after which it would explode and deal its remaining health in damage to you. On lower difficulties this was fine, but on higher difficulties the vastly increased HP and percentage-based healing moves it had made it nearly impossible to chip down to a level that didn't instantly kill you unless you had an absurdly overtuned build running by the time you met it.
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Oct 20, 2023 08:01
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I prefer a weaker end boss to a stronger one. There's little more demoralizing than dying to the final encounter after getting to it fairly easily. And then there's the bosses where the game is basically about building to beat the boss specifically because it requires very specific things you don't necessarily need to get to them. I'm perfectly happy to have the final encounter be a thing where if you get to it you've probably won. I haven't played Nethack since the time I died in the astral plane 2 games in a row. Now a lot of that is Nethack being a loving miserable slog at the end, especially for my lawful characters, but I also haven't played FTL since I died something like 4-5 times in a row to the end boss on hard. Could I have figured it out if I kept playing? Sure. But if I'm getting to the boss 4-5 times in a row then the rest of the game is basically just a massive timesink between boss attempts and it just didn't feel worth it. Phigs fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 09:23
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FTL trains you to be prepared for the boss, though 
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Oct 20, 2023 09:50
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It clearly didn't for me. All those times I got to the last boss fairly easily and died to the boss feeling like I never stood a chance.
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Oct 20, 2023 10:10
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Rappaport posted:FTL trains you to be prepared for the boss, though There's a lot of ways you can play FTL where you can comfortably cruise through the rest of the game with minimal difficulty and get completely shitblasted into space dust by the final boss because literally nothing else in the game trains you to prepare for an opponent with multiple phases that utilizes multiple different methods of attack.
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Oct 20, 2023 10:32
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Yeah I actually like FTL's endboss - it's a great, tense, tough-as-nails final battle, and beating it feels genuinely satisfying - but it's not really fair to say that the game prepares you for it. The game can throw any of its individual threats at you during a run, but nothing is guaranteed and there's no part of FTL that explicitly or implicitly tell you, "your ship and crew must have some kind of countermeasure for all of the following things or you are almost definitely going to eat poo poo at the last possible moment." For the entire rest of the game, "have a well-upgraded ship, a decent crew, and good weapons" is a valid counter-strategy for almost everything, but trying to beat the final boss in a straightforward, toe-to-toe slugfest will always put you at a disadvantage since it inherently has more crew, more shields, more health, and bigger guns than you are ever capable of acquiring. And it has a whole toolbox of dirty tricks. And you have to kill it repeatedly. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 11:25
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boss fights are one of the hardest things to get right in roguelikes, especially final bosses they very often end up being either a superfluous victory lap, or an impossible challenge you could not prepare for at the end of a long run, that's really really painful if permadeath is involved tbf boss fights in general are tough to do well, all the normal crappy boss problems are just exaggerated when dealing with roguelike design probably the best mechanical method I've seen is normal enemies or mini bosses that teach elements of the final boss, with the failsafe being a training room type area neither of those are perfect solutions, but difficult bosses with no option to practice them wind up being game killers or fund content creator videos and fandom wikis
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Oct 20, 2023 11:42
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victrix posted:boss fights are one of the hardest things to get right in roguelikes, especially final bosses This is why I think Rift Wizard has the right idea, even if it's not executed perfectly. The general idea of having a final challenge that's largely orthogonal to the rest of the game means that there's room to fail even if you dunk on the rest of the game, while still keeping the bar low enough that it's a very reasonable hurdle to clear. There are still tradeoffs--it can be a very rude surprise to new players since there's no signposting that the final challenge will be something completely different, and it does mean beating the boss becomes pretty perfunctory once you know what you're dealing with, but it does at least exert a little pressure on your build choices.
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Oct 20, 2023 16:45
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I suppose this is why most of the classic roguelikes are variations of 'go down, get a thing, come back up', after aping the idea from each other, that is.
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Oct 20, 2023 16:49
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the holy poopacy posted:This is why I think Rift Wizard has the right idea, even if it's not executed perfectly. The general idea of having a final challenge that's largely orthogonal to the rest of the game means that there's room to fail even if you dunk on the rest of the game, while still keeping the bar low enough that it's a very reasonable hurdle to clear. There are still tradeoffs--it can be a very rude surprise to new players since there's no signposting that the final challenge will be something completely different, and it does mean beating the boss becomes pretty perfunctory once you know what you're dealing with, but it does at least exert a little pressure on your build choices. Jupiter Hell kind of did this, but I think it was just about the weakest part of what was otherwise a very strong start to end run I believe the endgame is getting a revamp in the next update so I'll probably give it another shot when that happens
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Oct 20, 2023 16:53
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I like slay the spire's where the fake final boss doesnt require that much preparation but true final boss does. You opt into true final boss so you dont feel cheated by it. If they ever made a roguelike based on slay the spire it would be a good setup.
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Oct 20, 2023 16:57
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Unless you have an excellent build and get lucky the boss in FTL will straight up murder you the first time unless you've spoiled it for yourself. If you have a ship that has gotten through the game by killing crew and you try to use the same strategy it just doesn't work. The drone attack on phase 2 can also completely end you if you don't have cloak or it hits a key system. Same with the laser barrage on phase 3. Or if you don't realize it even has phases at all and you blow all your missiles/drones on phase one. It's one of my favorite games but I would understand someone feeling like they got screwed if they didn't know what to expect going into that fight.
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Oct 20, 2023 17:10
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Sifting through the roguelite games on Steam and I came across one that looks really fascinating and promising. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1494560/Rogue_Voltage/ No cards or dice or whatever. You do your own electrical wiring and engineering to enable your attacks/powers.
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Oct 20, 2023 17:46
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SKULL.GIF posted:Sifting through the roguelite games on Steam and I came across one that looks really fascinating and promising. I played the demo of this and it's pretty good, yeah. The guy who is making it is a fan of modular synths and it's incorporating that kind of thing. One I've definitely been looking out for the full release.
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Oct 20, 2023 19:34
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Rappaport posted:FTL trains you to be prepared for the boss, though Hard disagree, you can truck the game with lots of builds the boss outright ruins
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Oct 20, 2023 20:50
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FTL is a really extreme example where the entire game is about final boss preparation. Nothing can really prepare you for it on your early runs because you dont really know what to do before seeing its mechanics.
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Oct 20, 2023 20:52
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Upsidads posted:Hard disagree, you can truck the game with lots of builds the boss outright ruins Yeah they re-did the final boss some time after release. You now need a fairly specific build that deals with multiple things, to beat it. I wouldn't know what those things are since I haven't beat the final boss after the update, and stopped playing after seeing it's second or third phase and getting instantly murdered. Before the update it was doable.
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Oct 20, 2023 21:21
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No Wave posted:I like slay the spire's where the fake final boss doesnt require that much preparation but true final boss does. You opt into true final boss so you dont feel cheated by it. If they ever made a roguelike based on slay the spire it would be a good setup. DoomRL does something similar -- the Spider Mastermind is fairly spicy, but if you've handled the game thus far you can almost certainly take it out. The optional true final boss requires you to bring a nuclear weapon and source of invincibility to the final bossfight and nuke the mastermind, so it's not something you're likely to stumble across if you're new to the game.
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Oct 20, 2023 21:44
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Why the hell would any game take its cues from Ghosts and Goblins?!??
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Oct 20, 2023 22:21
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Veryslightlymad posted:Why the hell would any game take its cues from Ghosts and Goblins?!?? because it rules OP
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Oct 20, 2023 23:20
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Drone Incognito posted:Unless you have an excellent build and get lucky the boss in FTL will straight up murder you the first time unless you've spoiled it for yourself. If you have a ship that has gotten through the game by killing crew and you try to use the same strategy it just doesn't work. I beat it the first time i played the game, and it was pretty easyI played it on easy
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Oct 21, 2023 01:06
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You need the systems to counter the flag ship, but you can also run into a sector seven Slug cruiser and that thing is just as unfair. Plus, there are all these god drat missile boats running around. The enemy gets ten freaking missiles to shoot at you! Good luck dodging that. And these are just random encounters, never mind the big boss.
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Oct 21, 2023 01:33
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https://twitter.com/RubyBenji/status/1715488074694595025 Some more metaprog for Tiny Rogues :P At least he promises not having silly +3% dmg upgrades
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Oct 21, 2023 08:22
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looks like the game got better, i am the metaprogression joker 🤪
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Oct 21, 2023 08:30
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I'm seeing a lot of games ripping off Backpack Hero's main mechanic. Is Backpack Hero itself popularize that mechanic or did it take the "your inventory/moveset is laid out on a grid and it's relative positioning affects stats" mechanic from some other game that I'm not aware of?
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Oct 21, 2023 10:40
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id think noted roguelike pioneer diablo 2, the resident evils, and/or minecraft inventory/crafting could have all inspired it; also maybe even like xcom base building stuff with the adjacency bonuses also moonlighter had a similar kind of thing iirc(?) and was fairly recent
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Oct 21, 2023 11:08
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Snooze Cruise posted:i only care about the definition of roguelike so much... because its the only "like" i will ever get to experience 🥹 If you buy a roguelike, is that a roguesubscribe?
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Oct 21, 2023 11:46
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Roughly yearly, despite it having been quite some years now, the oddly design silo'd Lost Labyrinth DX sees an update of some kind of character---they've managed to make it to a clean v2.0.0 "Phoenix" mark with a more robust update. IF you can actually get the game to run correctly as it is...finnicky(though to their credit the fixes section does seem to maybe finally conquer some tech woes), it is surely A Something constantly doubling down on tilting at the windmills perhaps only it can perceive: https://roguebasin.com/index.php/Lost_Labyrinth_DX https://www.labydx.com/download quote:NEW FEATURE: Added new trait Shadowdancer (1 CP: unlocks special shadow powers)
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Oct 21, 2023 13:41
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adjacency bonuses have been around a long time, but more in stuff like base building or spaceship games. diablo 2 had the rune words and such which was kind of a similar concept of managing finite slots for maximum power. backpack hero definitely took the concept and ran with it though, and each character has a pretty unique interpretation of the basic mechanic
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Oct 21, 2023 14:38
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Jack Trades posted:I'm seeing a lot of games ripping off Backpack Hero's main mechanic. Beyond the God of Weapons game that is 50% Brotato - 50% Backpack hero, and that Backpack autobattler, are there any other new ones I should be aware of?
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Oct 21, 2023 14:45
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Broken Cog posted:Beyond the God of Weapons game that is 50% Brotato - 50% Backpack hero, and that Backpack autobattler, are there any other new ones I should be aware of? What is the temperature check on god of weapons anyway
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Oct 21, 2023 15:40
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Captain Foo posted:What is the temperature check on god of weapons anyway kind of meh response in the vampire survivor thread. i didnt like the demo very much myself but i didnt try the full game.
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Oct 21, 2023 16:06
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Awesome! posted:kind of meh response in the vampire survivor thread. i didnt like the demo very much myself but i didnt try the full game. tbh that’s the thread i thought i was in
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Oct 21, 2023 16:14
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Captain Foo posted:What is the temperature check on god of weapons anyway I would place it solidly in OK. It pretty much is just 3D Brotato+Backpack Hero, but not remotely as well balanced as either of them. If you've played out Brotato, and want more of the same, it's worth a shot, but otherwise, just play Brotato instead.
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Oct 21, 2023 16:22
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Been playing World of Horror on-and-off the last few days. I wasn't impressed with the gameplay at first, but as I get accustomed to its interface (and unlock more content via achievements) I'm appreciating it more. Gameplay aside, flawless horror vibes. Broken Cog posted:Beyond the God of Weapons game that is 50% Brotato - 50% Backpack hero, and that Backpack autobattler, are there any other new ones I should be aware of? There's a couple posts about Rogue Voltage higher up on this page.
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Oct 21, 2023 17:03
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Bleh. I was really starting to get into Halls of Torment and finally completed a level with my first run as Cleric, unlocked a ton of poo poo, then the game froze and when I reloaded it my save was gone. I tried rebooting my Deck after the patch applied per the hot fix patch notes, but no dice and my previous profile is from before that run. It’s a roguelike, I’m going to do a ton more runs anyway, but for some reason this is really discouraging and I’m not looking forward to playing it now. E: Steam taunts me by listing the achievements I got! But it also thinks I only have 20 mins of playtime. 
Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Oct 21, 2023 |
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Oct 21, 2023 19:37
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ToxicFrog posted:JH is cool, but DoomRL: Hmm, that does sound good! I wonder how best to get it onto my Steam Deck. Maybe there’s a flatpak.
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Oct 21, 2023 19:43
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| # ? May 27, 2024 09:05 |
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cleared the rogue mode of cryptark on my first shot thanks to the recycler and the entire pile of nukes that it dropped into my lap. thanks, cryptark. thryptark.
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Oct 21, 2023 23:52
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