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Tunicate posted:Everyone gathers around, trying to figure out what's up with this hispanic guy called 'Jesus'. I'm not clickin on CapnAndy's or eke out's spoilers but this would be the biggest dick move by Brando Sando
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Oct 17, 2023 22:38
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Way of Kings Part 3 PROGRESS! I have made progress! Part 3 is done! I'm 70% through the book! Only 13ish hours of audiobook remain! Finally some things happened!!! Not much, but goddamn I'll take anything I can get. Talkin about Shallan: Once more Shallan is the more interesting of the two viewpoints. The stuff with the symbolheads was loving cool and creepy until it became the closest thing Brandon has ever written to a horror scene. I never liked Cabsil (or his name Capsil? I could never quite tell if it was a p or b in the narration). I blame that partially on the narration. I don't think Kate Reading is a bad narrator. Not by a long shot. For the most part, she is incredible. I feel like she just has a much smaller range when it comes to male characters. Michael Kramer is better at voicing female characters than Kate Reading is at male characters. She ends up having about two, maybe three, different voices that she alternates through for male characters and I feel like a bit of the personality gets lost in the mix. So Cabsil never came across as charismatic or even really likable to me. Good riddance. One of the most annoying things out of this section was honestly the very end. Shallan is still hiding the whole truth, which makes her half-truths feel more hollow. Babe, Jasnah could help you and your family but instead you just make yourself seem like a loving idiot by not being honest about what's going on. Like pik_d, I don't give a gently caress about Shallan's family. We've seen so little of them and the one interlude chapter with one of her brothers showed him to be a loving psychopath. One thing I noticed that I didn't see pik_d mention - SHALLAN MIGHT HAVE A SHARDBLADE?!!?!?!!?!??!?! There was one brief moment where she was counting to 10 heartbeats, but was cut off. It was brief and never mentioned again. Curious to see if I am right. Another note I made "Voidbringers demons Jasnah goth" - I just love the descriptions of the voidbringers and their role within religion and society and it makes it feel like how our society treats demons and demonology. It feels like Jasnah is hunting for the equivalent of the Solomon Key and I can't help but think of her as a goth girl. Another note "Jasnah vs Liren 'kill for the greater good'" - I forgot to even talk about Jasnah vaporizing the bandits. That was great. I haven't talked about the Kaladin flashbacks yet, but I don't think it was by accident that only a few chapters later, we see Lirin and Kaladin have a similar discussion about killing for the greater good. All I will say is: gently caress Liren. Talkin about Kaladin: Some stuff happened!!! Not a lot, but there was some! The side carry fiasco was great because gently caress Sadeus. Honestly, I found very little talk about with the actual goings on in Kaladin's present because... not a lot has gone on. There were three "major" events - the side carry, the stormwall "judgment," and dream/vision with the Odium namedrop (also hilarious that it is 2/3 of the way through the book that we finally get a namedrop of our primary antagonist). The dream vision of Kaladin floating over the continent was interesting but also threw a lot of information at us and I remember very little of it. I'm sure it is far more meaningful on reread when the reader is more familiar with the different areas of the world. There was one part that stood out to me - they talk about the plateau at the center of the Shattered Plains (the Tower?) and how it stood out compared to the rest. My big, galaxy brain theory is that the Shattered Plains were not originally "shattered" and that the Tower was not originally there. Perhaps in a previous god battle or something, someone threw a mountain at someone else, and it felt to the ground, creating the Tower and shattering the area. We know that when Vin fought Ruin, they caused cataclysmic damage. I assume the Shattered Plains were created in a similar means. Kaladin's sections were frustrating - mainly because the frequency of flashbacks. Of the 15 Kaladin chapters in this section, 6 were flashbacks. Over one third of our time with Kaladin is flashbacks and most of those flashbacks were... idk, they just broke the flow in a way I didn't like. I feel like, generally speaking, they way the flashbacks are used to convey information ends up making the overall narrative lesser. We get so much telling until the flashblacks finally show. But you've been telling me so much that the showing is less impactful. We have chapters and chapters of Kaladin say "rah rah gently caress lighteyes rah rah lighteyes all suck!!!" and we see a little of that in his story but then we see Shallan and Dalinar's chapters where we see lighteyes just acting no different from darkeyes. By the time we get to Tien being shipped off or Amaram betraying Kaladin, I can't muster more than just a shrug because we've already been talking about this so much that there is no surprise or suspense to the showing. The most surprising thing out of the Kaladin flashbacks was the reveal that Liren did steal the spheres. Liren loving sucks and so much of Kaladin's misery is Liren's fault. Liren refused to ever accept payment for his services (loving idiot) and then stole spheres and put his family through so much suffering because of it. Yet Kaladin is never like "oooh gently caress darkeyes." This made Kaladin feel like a bit it of an moron in all of this, but he was young so I guess I can excuse it slightly. I don't think that the Amaram flashback was interesting enough or enlightening enough to keep it from us this long. There is no reason that shouldn't have been at the end of section one at the latest. I spent the first section of the book wondering how Kaladin became a slave but by waiting so long to reveal it, by the time of the reveal, I just don't care anymore because it's so far in the past and it doesn't really matter now. And I think that's the overall problem with Kaladin's flashbacks. He is frequently talking about his feelings on certain things and then by the time the flashbacks roll around to show us the events behind the feelings, it's way after the fact and I just don't care anymore. Talkin about Interludes: These continue to be frustrating to me because they're such little peeks into the world but have next to no context that by the time I'm a few chapters in to the next part, I've completely forgotten everything. When I hit the post-part 3 interludes, I was trying to remember anything from the second set interludes and remembered nothing. I had to come back here and look at what I wrote to remember anything from that section. One last thing: Talkin about Spren: I, obviously, do not know the full picture of Spren and I'm sure it will be explained more over time, but at the current time, spren just make no sense as a concept and I feel like their creation was Brandon being too clever by half. There are spren for everything from physical objects to sensations to emotions to thoughts and it just doesn't make much sense to me. The onions you're growing have onion spren. The waves are strong, so you'll see wave spren. The wind is blowing, thus wind spren. You got angry and now there are anger spren. You got hurt and now you're seeing pain spren. You solved a math equation and saw a math spren. If they were in the present day would there be iphone spren? Internet spren? If onions went extinct, what would happen to all of the onion spren? In fact, if you eat an onion, what happens to its onion spren? How can you have spren for physical objects as well as for emotions as well as just for abstract concepts? But then some of the spren are sentient? others are sapient? Makes no sense!!!  On to part 4!!
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Oct 18, 2023 19:23
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(split into a second post so there's no chance of spoilers in case pik_d hits quote on the previous post) PIK_D NO READ More Ghostblood talk, this time by Amaram. That was interesting. This is the third time we've had talk of Ghostbloods or Thaidakar - First was Gavalar, second was Shallan's butler, and third is Amaram.We still have no indication on what the Ghostbloods (or Kelsier) want or why they're loving around on Roshar and I'm curious if they're going to continue to be an antagonistic force or turn out to be "allies with different methods that happen to occasionally clash with the protags." Up to this point, I've gotten the vibe that I'm supposed to not trust Ghostbloods/Thaidakar as Gavalar assumed they were behind his assassination - though that has never been confirmed why Szeth did that to begin with, so maybe they were. By that logic, Amaram may be a fucker, but maybe not a bad person? I know the Ghostbloods get mentioned far more as the series goes on so I'm curious to see how this all plays out. I definitely am coming at this from a different angle than pik_d, so that's exciting.
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Oct 18, 2023 19:23
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Mordiceius posted:We have chapters and chapters of Kaladin say "rah rah gently caress lighteyes rah rah lighteyes all suck!!!" and we see a little of that in his story but then we see Shallan and Dalinar's chapters where we see lighteyes just acting no different from darkeyes. By the time we get to Tien being shipped off or Amaram betraying Kaladin, I can't muster more than just a shrug because we've already been talking about this so much that there is no surprise or suspense to the showing. Full SA spoilers: Kaladin's bouts of cognitive dissonance when he becomes lighteyed are extremely funny. Especially when Teft has to be like "ummmm boss...." when Kaladin just instinctually goes on a rant about how lighteyes are all uniformly scum, no exceptions, and when Kaladin returns to Hearthstone only to finally internalize just how lighteyes he's become; he's so high ranking and has spent so much time being on familiar terms with royalty that Roshone no longer even registers as nobility to him, and the money Roshone and Lirin were feuding over is literally less than pocket change, he's carrying more cash than that right now. Also it's not a cognitive dissonance moment, but when Adolin has to actually spell out "hey, dummy, since I got married you are literally the bachelor with the highest title in the entire kingdom, all those noble ladies outside your clinic door don't actually have headaches", that's fun too. quote:Talkin about Spren:
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Oct 18, 2023 21:24
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Mordiceius posted:Way of Kings Part 3 Kabsal
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Oct 18, 2023 21:56
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CapnAndy posted:I will be deeply unhappy if Roshar ends up as the baddies. They're cooler than Scadrial, fight me.
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Oct 18, 2023 22:21
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CapnAndy posted:Yes it does. You're just lacking a lot of key information right now -- but to be fair, so is everyone in the book so far, so you're in good company. You do have information that they don't, being up-to-date on Mistborn, so if you want to think about ways it could make sense, it might not be a waste of time -- you showed some really good insight in parts I didn't quote. But if you don't want to, don't worry. Characters in the book are going to be seeking those answers too. I'm assuming at this point that Spren (WoK and General Cosmere spoilers) are some weird manifestation of investiture. Probably living in the Cognitive Realm (since it seems Shallan can see into the Cognitive Realm and that's where the Symbolheads are) and peeking over - like how the Mist Spirit was. I had wondered if they were something like Seons from Sel, but that doesn't seem like a perfect fit either. I think the thing that I still struggle with is just that spren aren't just attached to physical objects, but they manifest as representations of abstract concepts. Looking at Emperor's Soul, Shai talks about every object, even non-living (like tables or windows) having a "soul" so I could understand Table Spren or Window Spren. But then I still get hung up on stuff like Anger Spren or Rot Spren. Hell, even Wind Spren. The only things that don't have spren seem to be sentient beings. You don't hear about Chull Spren or Cremling Spren, but you will hear about onion spren (I can't remember the name of the veggie Kaladin's mom was chopping). However, sentient beings can attract spren like anger spren - but where do these come from? Another oddity in this is Dalanar noticing odd spren coming from the corpse of the chasm fiend. I wonder what that could mean. CapnAndy posted:Kaladin's opinions should not be assumed to be accurate on this matter. He is extremely biased, having been shaped by both his upbringing and his experiences. Eye color has nothing to do with character, as you've already noticed. Oh totally. I wish the flashbacks were handled differently to better tell Kaladin's story. I supremely do not give a poo poo about anything happening in those flashbacks.
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Oct 18, 2023 22:42
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Mordiceius posted:
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Oct 18, 2023 22:52
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CapnAndy posted:I don't remember quite where you're at -- and if I asked the question that would narrow it down, it'd risk a spoiler -- so I will err on the side of generality and say that at some point that may have already happened, Syl is going to ask Kaladin a question that is very close to the ones you're asking right now. Just to reassure you that, yes, characters in the book are paying attention to this too. Yeah there hasn't been any questions yet. I assume that will probably come shortly. The only interactions really between those two have been Syl being like "weird, I'm taking on more human characteristics HOW ODD" repeated about 10 different ways, and then Kaladin asked "Who is Odium" and Syl freaked out momentarily, but that hasn't been followed up on yet. I will say, my thoughts on Spren should not be considered frustration and anger at the text. More so just me working through my confusion on them as a concept. It's clear that I'm missing big pieces of things. Speaking more generally, Way of Kings/Stormlight Archive have been interesting because then there are just certain things that I have some foreknowledge on. (PIK_D NO READ) Like, obviously, I know about the Ghostbloods, but that is just from staying current on the Mistborn series and "getting ahead" of published order. But some things I've just picked up by seeing it mentioned in passing though I didn't have the context before. Things I know that haven't been covered in the text: Shards can be shattered? Splintered? I don't remember the terminology. I know that Odium has done that in the past. I believe the Seons on Sel are part of a shattered shard. I think that Roshar's gods have been shattered by Odium in the past? I assume that when Kelsier was called "The child of Tanavast" that Tanavast was a shard holder at some point. None of this knowledge really bothers me though because it's more "high concept general spoilers." I do find it fascinating that at some point we're going to have to go from "yo this guy is just chilling in a slave camp for an entire book" to "he is fighting gods now" but hell, Mistborn did it. People were talking earlier about the length of book where Sanderson is most effective and I'm probably biased since it was my first foray into his writing, but I think the Mistborn Era 1 books are his sweet spot. Elantris and Warbreaker land in this category as well (despite me disliking the general plot of Elantris). I feel like his Mistborn Era 2 books are a bit too short (though Lost Metal is closer to what I want from him and the best book from that era). On the other side, I don't know how I'll feel when I make it through three more books, but so far, Way of Kings is way longer than it needs to be. I don't know that I would say it should be cut down to "a 200 page prologue" but I think that you could lose a good third of it and the book would be better for it. Mordiceius fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 23:08
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CapnAndy posted:I will be deeply unhappy if Roshar ends up as the baddies. Always have been
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Oct 18, 2023 23:46
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re: all cosmere spoilers including that unpublished sixth of the dust sequel story the bigger surprise will be if Alethi in particular somehow escape being baddies, because they are especially insane. the Future Rosharan with the gun sure seems like a Singer but his my people "will allow you to fight alongside us, if you wish, to gain status and elevation" thing felt uncomfortably alethi eke out fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Oct 19, 2023 |
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Oct 19, 2023 00:27
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The Alethi are the Viltrumites of the Cosmere.
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Oct 19, 2023 00:32
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Klingons, and not the cool klingons.
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Oct 19, 2023 00:37
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Throughout Way of Kings, I keep wanting to say "Yo, Kaladin, maybe it's not all of the Lighteyes who suck - maybe it's a very Alethi problem."
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Oct 19, 2023 00:39
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#NotAllLighteyes
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Oct 19, 2023 00:41
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Mordiceius posted:Throughout Way of Kings, I keep wanting to say "Yo, Kaladin, maybe it's not all of the Lighteyes who suck - maybe it's a very Alethi problem." eke out posted:re: all cosmere spoilers including that unpublished sixth of the dust sequel story
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Oct 19, 2023 00:58
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Mordiceius posted:Way of Kings Part 3 My understanding, and I may be wrong, is that there is no onionspren or longrootspren (she was cooking longroot), but instead lifespren seem to cover the bases for plants. Here's a few examples from earlier in the book. WoK Chapter 4 posted:Kaladin noted a half-dozen windspren flitting overhead, their translucent forms chasing after—or perhaps cruising along with—the highstorm’s last gusts. Tiny lights rose around the plants. Lifespren. They looked like motes of glowing green dust or swarms of tiny translucent insects. WoK Chapter 11 posted:Eventually, Shallan made her way out of the Conclave; there were no gates on the front, just pillars set before the open maw. She was surprised to discover how dim it was outside. She trailed down the large steps, then took a smaller, more cultivated side path where she would be out of the way. Small shelves of ornamental shalebark had been grown along this walkway, and several species had let out fanlike tendrils to wave in the evening breeze. A few lazy lifespren—like specks of glowing green dust—flitted from one frond to the next. WoK Chapter 14 posted:He stalked away from the chasm, bare feet splashing in puddles and stepping heedlessly on rockbud vines. The incline he’d come down was covered with flat, slatelike plants that had opened like books to the rain, ruffled lacy red and green leaves connecting the two halves. Lifespren—little green blips of light, brighter than Syl but small as spores—danced among the plants, dodging raindrops. As for "mathspren," please observe Brandon's greatest burn on Shallan: WoK Chapter 7 posted:Shallan raised the end of her brushpen to her lips as she considered her next step. The creationspren slowly faded away, vanishing. There were said to be logicspren—in the form of tiny stormclouds—who were attracted to great arguments, but Shallan had never seen them. pik_d fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Oct 19, 2023 |
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Oct 19, 2023 01:11
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pik_d posted:My understanding, and I may be wrong, [spoiler]is that there is no onionspren or longrootspren (she was cooking longroot), but instead lifespren seem to cover the bases for plants. Here's a few examples from earlier in the book. Ah. That makes sense. I'm still of the opinion that Brandon just wanted a way to create anime in book form and then wrote lore to justify it. Spren are just anime effects.
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Oct 19, 2023 01:24
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SP4 spoilers/full cosmere. What if the planet that is absorbing investiture is reforging a broken shard or changing the intent of an existing shard? Like metamorphosis. My original theory was that its a dragon egg or a baby Aether gathering energy, but based on the themes of Sunlit man about Intent and Connection, I feel like I'm onto something. Hell, the Threnodites were lead here. It could be someone reforging their shattered shard. Wildly speculating mostly to quote myself if I'm somehow right.
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Oct 19, 2023 01:26
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Mordiceius posted:Spren are just anime effects. Mordiceius posted:I do find it fascinating that at some point we're going to have to go from "yo this guy is just chilling in a slave camp for an entire book" to "he is fighting gods now" but hell, Mistborn did it.
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Oct 19, 2023 03:05
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CapnAndy posted:You say that I mean, fair, but at the same time I feel like the first Mistborn book, despite being only 55% the length of this book, covered far more ground. But hey, maybe the final 30% of WoK will surprise me. I wonder how far off I am from this book's Sanderlanche. I figure they can't keep this up too much longer because something has to happen eventually and I can feel the edges of change on the horizon.
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Oct 19, 2023 03:19
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The one note I have for Mordiceius is that the people of Roshar find spren so normal and universal that they assume that anything that could have one does. Even if no one has ever seen it. They also call everything spren even when you know it's clearly not. Kleenex effect for spren.
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Oct 19, 2023 03:22
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M_Gargantua posted:They also call everything spren even when you know it's clearly not. I need an example for this, because I’m drawing a blank having read SA 1-4 but not the latter two secret projects.
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Oct 19, 2023 03:33
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mewse posted:Kabsal On this note, I found his GraphicAudio voice actor to be quite charismatic. Sexy Antonio Banderas. Sad to hear the regular audiobook doesn’t capture him well. (GA gets the Herdazian = Hispanic accents thing right. Love The Lopen too.)
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Oct 19, 2023 08:40
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Grundulum posted:I need an example for this, because I’m drawing a blank having read SA 1-4 but not the latter two secret projects. SA4 spoiler: They call the Seon a spren. Although the difference is honestly pretty small. SA2 spoiler: Most people on Roshar also call all birds "chickens", which is pretty funny when you read about the multi-colored "chickens" with the big beaks. Torrannor fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 19, 2023 11:31
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Wow spoilers. I was waiting for Mordiceius to get to that part to reveal my trolling!!
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Oct 19, 2023 12:08
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I'm about 1/3 through The Sunlit Man, and so far so good. I'm going to echo Mordiceius's complaint about Fantasy Vocabulary. spoiler for the first bit of Sunlit, I guess Holy poo poo please tell us what the deal with Torment is. The Torment comes up frequently, and it seems like Nomad is intimately familiar with what it is, where it came from, what it means, why it doesn't allow him to do harm to others, but there doesn't seem to be a convincing reason not to have at least given us SOME information. I think there was some kind of bread crumb that happens when they break oaths? or something? but it's just so frustrating at this point. Is this "torment" thing something that has occurred in other parts of the cosmere too that I missed from some other book? Or is Brandon just concealing it for some reason?
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Oct 20, 2023 18:08
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Not reading that spoiler but goddamn was there a point where I was begging Brandon to use a new word. WoK interludes light spoilers: When Szeth is fighting there was a whole lot of "He full Lashed this. And then quarter Lashed that. And then he Lashed his Lashings. There were Lashings coming out of Lashings with full Lashings and half Lashes." Like goddamn. I understand that's some sort of name of power, but at least with Allomancy there was a lot of Push and Pull. And even when Wax fights, he wasn't wholly Pushes. Other things happened. LASH LASH LASH Also - Shardblades are basically just Brandon doing lightsabers, aren't they.
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Oct 20, 2023 18:20
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Stormlight is his 15 year old selfs anime take on all the formative fantasy and sci-fi he experienced
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Oct 20, 2023 18:23
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Mordiceius posted:Not reading that spoiler but goddamn was there a point where I was begging Brandon to use a new word. WoK interludes light spoilers: When Szeth is fighting there was a whole lot of "He full Lashed this. And then quarter Lashed that. And then he Lashed his Lashings. There were Lashings coming out of Lashings with full Lashings and half Lashes." Like goddamn. I understand that's some sort of name of power, but at least with Allomancy there was a lot of Push and Pull. And even when Wax fights, he wasn't wholly Pushes. Other things happened. Specifically, they're lightsabers but what if Final Fantasy
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Oct 20, 2023 18:29
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Mordiceius posted:Also - Shardblades are basically just Brandon doing lightsabers, aren't they. Kind of. I think canonically they're literally big anime swords, but I just tried to search for a Word of Brandon on that and all I could find was tons of speculation on what they can and can't cut
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Oct 20, 2023 18:30
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Shardblades are Keyblades. They can dissipate into mist and get recalled at any time by their owner, if a bunch of people get together and drive them all into the ground and abandon them that's a very big deal, and (end of WoR) they can shapeshift to be whatever the wielder wants them to be.
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Oct 20, 2023 18:41
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road potato posted:I'm about 1/3 through The Sunlit Man, and so far so good. I'm going to echo Mordiceius's complaint about Fantasy Vocabulary. spoiler for the first bit of Sunlit, I guess Holy poo poo please tell us what the deal with Torment is. The Torment comes up frequently, and it seems like Nomad is intimately familiar with what it is, where it came from, what it means, why it doesn't allow him to do harm to others, but there doesn't seem to be a convincing reason not to have at least given us SOME information. I think there was some kind of bread crumb that happens when they break oaths? or something? but it's just so frustrating at this point. (Sunlit Man/Dawnshard spoilers) I think it's just a word Nomad coined. It's the lasting effect of carrying a Dawnshard, since Hoid carried the same one and has the same restriction. Sigzil just calls it a Torment (and is the only person so do so) because he's a trained fighter and limiting him that way feels more frustrating. Hoid is more flexible in his approaches, so doesn't consider it as such. There's only 4 Dawnshards, only one has a name so far, and we've only seen three holders. Hoid, who gave one to Sigzil, and Rysn, who is carrying Change. I don't think Rysn's shard has much detail given. There's just not enough shardbearers to standardize what to call it yet. Echophonic fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 18:50
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Mordiceius posted:Also - Shardblades are basically just Brandon doing lightsabers, aren't they. IIRC the specific impetus was "How would carrying around the Buster Sword actually work?"
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Oct 20, 2023 18:51
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Does he ever come up with another word for using magic other than Lashing? Because goddamn it's painful when ever 3rd word is "Lash/Lashing"
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Oct 20, 2023 19:02
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Mordiceius posted:Does he ever come up with another word for using magic other than Lashing? Because goddamn it's painful when ever 3rd word is "Lash/Lashing" Lashing stays lashing but it gets de-emphasized as we meet other magic users with different abilities
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Oct 20, 2023 19:11
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Mordiceius posted:Does he ever come up with another word for using magic other than Lashing? Because goddamn it's painful when ever 3rd word is "Lash/Lashing" Just like with allomancy, wielding stormlight provides different types of magics but yes, there are other words for how different people utilize stormlight. The capitalization of random words early on with no context is something you just have to accept, knowing it'll be fleshed out later on.
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Oct 20, 2023 19:12
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mewse posted:Lashing stays lashing but it gets de-emphasized as we meet other magic users with different abilities
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Oct 20, 2023 19:16
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Louisgod posted:Just like with allomancy, wielding stormlight provides different types of magics but yes, there are other words for how different people utilize stormlight. The capitalization of random words early on with no context is something you just have to accept, knowing it'll be fleshed out later on. Oh totally. It was probably just because there was only one person with powers in the scene that it felt like that word lost all meaning when I heard it for the 100th time in 30 seconds.
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Oct 20, 2023 19:17
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It does get kind of silly how many capital-letter Cosmere words there are, especially in Stormlight Archive. Like, just for Lashing you have Surgebinders, specifically Windrunners (and sometimes Bondsmiths), of the Orders of the Knights Radiant, using the Surges of Adhesion and Gravitation, which are a form of Investiture granted through Nahel bonds with spren. I don't even know if that counts as a spoiler because it's just gibberish if you don't know any of those words. It's both my favorite and least favorite part of the Cosmere.
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Oct 20, 2023 19:33
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