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Were those guys experienced tankers or new soldiers?
A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 17:08
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 03:06 |
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They're probably also competent tankers, and just needed to be crosstrained to the leo2, not a fresh conscript with no understand of how tanks work.
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Oct 20, 2023 17:10
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They might also be motivated students, what with their country under attack and such
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Oct 20, 2023 17:12
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Just Another Lurker posted:The IRA ones were mostly single use types converted from gas cannisters (14 inch diameter) and could be launched from the back of a van/lorry with holes cut in the roof or just plopped down in a field. Also fired some from the back of a van at 10 Downing Street that time. I remember seeing the burning Transit on telly. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_mortar_attack
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Oct 20, 2023 17:19
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Charlz Guybon posted:Those numbers just look too high to be true. 55 tanks and 120 IFV in one day? Footage from one of the latest pushes. (Its just exploding vehicles shown) https://vxtwitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1715300569689059648 They just keep pushing the same areas again and again as seen at 11 seconds with the graveyard of destroyed vehicles. This isn't even the real big attack they stopped but that video is full of infantry getting cluster munitioned to hell and back at the end.
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Oct 20, 2023 17:19
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JudgeJoeBrown posted:Footage from one of the latest pushes. (Its just exploding vehicles shown) I read that Ukraine laid a lot of mines, so that's probably why they're all pushing in the same place. That, or incompetence.
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Oct 20, 2023 17:43
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goomsnarr posted:Also fired some from the back of a van at 10 Downing Street that time. I remember seeing the burning Transit on telly. I clicked on this and the ad in the comments could not have been better 
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Oct 20, 2023 17:53
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Sure, you drive in a column with a mine clearing vehicle in the front, but normally you'd suppress enemy positions with artillery and lay down lots of smoke. The only smoke I'm seeing is from burning Russian vehicles… e: original idea do not steal Antigravitas fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 17:59
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Antigravitas posted:Sure, you drive in a column with a mine clearing vehicle in the front, but normally you'd suppress enemy positions with artillery and lay down lots of smoke. The only smoke I'm seeing is from burning Russian vehicles… Ssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh don't give them any ideas
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Oct 20, 2023 18:00
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I am reasonably certain nobody would take military advice from me, but I edited my post just in case.
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Oct 20, 2023 18:09
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Antigravitas posted:I am reasonably certain nobody would take military advice from me, but I edited my post just in case. My wife is a family court lawyer, and I've seen a LOT of Law and Order so I feel very comfortable telling you that you are all set now. Teamwork makes the loving dream work
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Oct 20, 2023 18:11
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But if we go single file, we hide our numbers AND get free route clearance! Bing Bong, so simple! No, I don't think these myths and stories of small flying robots directing magic death from the sky are nothing more than enemy propaganda.
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Oct 20, 2023 18:28
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To be fair, this looks a bit like week one of the Ukrainian counter-offensive. So we’ve seen both Ukraine and Russia be broken up at the tactical level by prepared defenses only a few months apart.
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Oct 20, 2023 18:32
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If I remember correctly from one of the secret diary articles of a Ukrainian soldier, they were already training on the T64 when they got sent to Germany to train on the Leopard instead
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Oct 20, 2023 18:33
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Fragrag posted:If I remember correctly from one of the secret diary articles of a Ukrainian soldier, they were already training on the T64 when they got sent to Germany to train on the Leopard instead That's a loving upgrade.
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Oct 20, 2023 18:35
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JudgeJoeBrown posted:Footage from one of the latest pushes. (Its just exploding vehicles shown) loving hell, it's literally like watching a bunch of World of Tanks pubbies lemming-rush an open field one by one. Hell, at 0:15 there's even a tomato pushing their teammate into the enemy's field of fire so that both promptly explode.
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Oct 20, 2023 18:37
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Invalido posted:As someone who's been though the Swedish Leo2 training I find that hard to believe. Back in my day tank crew were conscripted, I did 15 months in uniform 10 of which was all tank stuff more or less. Training was intense, days were often very long, and at the end I would describe us as "barely competent". Most of the guys I served with were pretty smart and quick learners too (one of the advantages of the conscription system I guess, the army gets to pick and choose) This was for the commander role though, drivers and gunners were in 12 months total, loaders 10, and those guys spent less time than I did on non-tank things. I can see training a decent loader happening in 9 weeks, especially if the person being trained can already tie their shoes and make their bed and fire a rifle. Driving a Leo2 in easy terrain in daylight isn't hard at all if you've ever driven a car but the tactical stuff our drivers were expected to handle as well as the repair/maintenance side of things isn't trivial to learn. Also all the finer details. For example we spent several days just learning to camouflage the things in a hurry. Mundane things like loading/unloading on trailers or rail cars, using various bridges, fording, recovery/towing etc. all took time. Especially night operations is really hard to do reasonably well compared to daylight despite all the gadgets and requires lots of practice (like several weeks of it) especially for drivers and commanders. As far as I know its not new recruits being trained? So it's more like already experienced tankers, retrained onto new gear. So safety, maintenance, repair, manual of arms stuff.
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Oct 20, 2023 18:57
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Re: tank training, I don't know if the Ukrainian trainees were raw recruits, or if they already had experience as tank crews. If it's the latter, I suppose the curriculum could be somewhat abridged. Just give the important bits that vary with that model tank.
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Oct 20, 2023 19:37
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Some other video going around which provides some more context for the huge losses. I guess there was some light snow or ash or something, the field was covered in a layer of something white. Armored columns advancing and melting it with the heat of the vehicle and it just looks like something from the old missile commander arcade games. Your eyes just immediately track right to where they are as they get lit up.
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Oct 20, 2023 19:59
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dennyk posted:loving hell, it's literally like watching a bunch of World of Tanks pubbies lemming-rush an open field one by one. Hell, at 0:15 there's even a tomato pushing their teammate into the enemy's field of fire so that both promptly explode.
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Oct 20, 2023 20:27
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goomsnarr posted:Also fired some from the back of a van at 10 Downing Street that time. I remember seeing the burning Transit on telly. Whoa I’d never heard of that before dang.
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Oct 20, 2023 20:45
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DTurtle posted:The first vehicle was probably disabled by a previous mine hit. It makes sense to push it further in front of you, because then that vehicle will hit the other mines, or get pushed off to the side after a while. You don’t want to drive around it, as you will then just hit the other mines to the left or right of the ones that disabled the first vehicle. The editing on most of these videos tends towards “most favorable light” but that video seems bad even by that standard. The tank at the beginning and at the end I think are the same tank? Which also clears a mine with an explosion near the middle? It’s not clear that the pusher AFV takes a bit or is disabled. Anyway, I think that there’s only 2 disabled vehicles in that video despite it showing what could be interpreted as five or six.
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Oct 20, 2023 22:23
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They aren’t the same tank it looks like the one in the last clip is the one behind the one in the first clip.
Skoots fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Oct 21, 2023 |
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Oct 21, 2023 01:08
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Visually confirmed. What's the difference between an IFV and an APC? Carry capacity? Armor level? https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1715395056893354043
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Oct 21, 2023 04:31
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Charlz Guybon posted:Visually confirmed. Someone will have a better answer, but for now. APC are armored taxi- pull up, drop off, go get more. It will have a gun, but it isn't there to stand and fight. Often carry more dudes. IFV are support vehicles, pull up, pour hate to support their dismounts. Also designed to fight other IFV and light armor.
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Oct 21, 2023 04:42
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It is also a bit subjective. Like the person counts BTR-82A as an IFV (note: BTR means APC), perhaps because it has an autocannon so it's much better at supporting infantry in a fight than something with just machine guns. Things that are officially IFVs (which is what BMP means) tend to have that or a cannon, or both, and probably also some ATGMs. (A BMP-3 has an autocannon and a 100mm cannon. It also tends to explode really hard). They also tend to have a bit more armor, since that's helpful in a fight. Of course, I am pretty sure there have been videos of Ukrainians using Humvees in straight up fights...
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Oct 21, 2023 04:56
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I think IFVs also carry a weapon that isn’t crew-served/man-portable? The thing has to be on a vehicle, more or less. Nobody’s dragging around that drat Bushmaster off the top of a Bradley and putting it back into service. Unlike the ICVs, (like a Stryker) where you could pull the .50 or Mk19 off the top and throw it on a tripod if things were getting that level of stupid. Idk if there’s even a difference between ICV and APC though 
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Oct 21, 2023 05:15
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Icon Of Sin posted:I think IFVs also carry a weapon that isn’t crew-served/man-portable? The thing has to be on a vehicle, more or less. Nobody’s dragging around that drat Bushmaster off the top of a Bradley and putting it back into service. Halo lied to us all , unforgivable
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Oct 21, 2023 05:46
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Someone make a IFV alignment chart, make sure killdozer is on there somewhere.
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Oct 21, 2023 06:23
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If you intend your vehicle to carry infantry and to stay and fight with your infantry, it's an infantry fighting vehicle. I am a doctrine functionalist.
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Oct 21, 2023 08:52
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Antigravitas posted:If you intend your vehicle to carry infantry and to stay and fight with your infantry, it's an infantry fighting vehicle. I am a doctrine functionalist. The Toyota Hilux: the world's premier IFV.
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Oct 21, 2023 09:47
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Antigravitas posted:If you intend your vehicle to carry infantry and to stay and fight with your infantry, it's an infantry fighting vehicle. I am a doctrine functionalist. Big My Tank Is Fight energy
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Oct 21, 2023 09:49
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Antigravitas posted:If you intend your vehicle to carry infantry and to stay and fight with your infantry, it's an infantry fighting vehicle. I am a doctrine functionalist. Does it have to stay by choice? "A humvee stuck in the mud is an IFV."
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Oct 21, 2023 11:37
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*Pentagon Wars begins playing in the background* Good luck y'all.
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Oct 21, 2023 11:46
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Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:Someone make a IFV alignment chart, make sure killdozer is on there somewhere. I think killdozer was on the technical chart.
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Oct 21, 2023 13:03
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Charlz Guybon posted:What's the difference between an IFV and an APC? Carry capacity? Armor level? Well, here you can see good mechanized assault practice with an IFV, imagine doing that with an APC: https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17cl6c7/russian_bmd2_ifv_attempted_to_assault_ukrainian/
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Oct 21, 2023 14:34
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A.o.D. posted:I think killdozer was on the technical chart. I mean, it can bring a guy to the battlefield.
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Oct 21, 2023 14:48
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bird food bathtub posted:*Pentagon Wars begins playing in the background* No, I'm not rising to this bait to talk about that lovely book and lovely movie. Let's talk about Russian Losses- how long can they keep this up before the attack's just unsustainable?
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Oct 21, 2023 15:50
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Fivemarks posted:No, I'm not rising to this bait to talk about that lovely book and lovely movie. It's been unsustainable for the entire 3 day operation, and just keeps getting worse.
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Oct 21, 2023 15:53
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It's called deficit spending and it's only unsustainable if you aren't winning. Russia knows that they're gonna start winning any day now, so they don't have to worry about all of that red ink or those zinc boxes because victory is in sight
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Oct 21, 2023 16:19
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