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240W USB-C PD has got to be the limit of the connector right? Also 50V+ is a hazard let alone those tiny contacts.
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Oct 20, 2023 23:31
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Phones have been using 50v on lovely RJ-11 connectors for over a century with few to no issues 48/50v DC is that sweet spot where you can push enough current to do things, like run a Victorian era rotary phone, but not stop someone's heart, and probably won't heat up enough to start a fire. It's also high enough voltage you can wire your whole house for it without needing giant thick copper cables to go more than 6'. 50v is sort of the safe limit to DC voltages. You wouldn't want to lick a hot connector, but you'd probably be ok to drive within half an hour 240w is probably the upper safe limit yeah I can see a world where desktops get fed by two, three or even four USBC adapters. Although probably just use a barrel adapter/mini-din/snap and lock for anything over 0.5kw The average laptop these days uses like 20w unless you're playing games, the average desktop + monitor will probably clock in under 240w in the next couple of years if they don't already Every six months or so that one guy crawls out of the woodwork to tell us how USB-C connectors are too expensive to put in everything but even my wife's iPhone uses USB-C now, so,
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Oct 21, 2023 00:06
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Issue is less total power and more about the components and how much transformation is necessary. My 48" Sony 4k TV I have in my office has a power supply that is under 240w, but the power supply delivers the 200w via 19.5v@10.26a. So, going to usb-c PD would require stepping down the voltage since amps are more than halved. That could increase cost, add heat to the chassis, reduce life of components, or even change the RF signature requiring more shielding. The 5a limit on USB-C PD reduces its overall flexibility as far as general power delivery goes and includes way more conductors for something that will never need to pass data.
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Oct 21, 2023 00:29
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Anyone here with a framework laptop? I'm seriously considering getting a framework 16 and just turning it into my forever ship of Thesus laptop.
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Oct 21, 2023 04:02
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In the last page or two someone posted a photo of one. Might be the first actual goon photograph of one since I took over this thread
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Oct 21, 2023 04:54
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Hadlock posted:The average laptop these days uses like 20w unless you're playing games, the average desktop + monitor will probably clock in under 240w in the next couple of years if they don't already. If by "average" you mean "not gaming" then yeah that was a few years ago. An OEM desktop with a "65W TDP" processor and integrated graphics doesn't really have anything else of significance to push it past 100W even if you use a stress test to push the CPU to its limit. Typical monitor uses under 30W.
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Oct 21, 2023 05:08
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Joey Steel posted:Anyone here with a framework laptop? I'm seriously considering getting a framework 16 and just turning it into my forever ship of Thesus laptop. I got an AMD one sitting at home but haven't had a chance to play with it since it arrived just hours before I left the country for 2 weeks. Anything you'd like to know specifically or photos of any parts? I'm planning to run Fedora 39 on it.
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Oct 21, 2023 07:29
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Speaking of old laptops with swollen batteries, I still have my Surface Pro 3 from years ago that I need to dispose of. Should I plug it in long enough to wipe the SSD, or is it fine to just leave it if it's Bitlockered?
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Oct 21, 2023 07:41
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isndl posted:Speaking of old laptops with swollen batteries, I still have my Surface Pro 3 from years ago that I need to dispose of. Should I plug it in long enough to wipe the SSD, or is it fine to just leave it if it's Bitlockered? If it turns on still, wipe it and donate it/give it away on FB marketplace. A surface 3 is still pretty useable and there's almost certainly someone in your area that might get use/need it.
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Oct 21, 2023 15:18
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Mantle posted:I got an AMD one sitting at home but haven't had a chance to play with it since it arrived just hours before I left the country for 2 weeks. General build quality, impressions of the hardware. It looks like a dream come true for repairability, but limited selection on the hardware currently. I was planning on trying linux mint on it, as my first foray into linux.
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Oct 21, 2023 16:05
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Frameworks seem neat if your into the DIY aspect, but it terms of cost efficiency it's not very good, even long term. Most of their laptops are pretty low spec, and the price of the mainboards are pretty much in the ballpark of entire similarly specced entire laptops. You would probably save money and have better machines just replacing your laptop every 3-4 years. While I haven't seen one in person, it looks to be using a pretty standard chinese chasis which...isn't great and this post https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=3552651&pagenumber=1087&perpage=40&highlight=Framework#post535310016 seems to back that up.
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Oct 21, 2023 16:59
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I'm not sure there is such thing as a standard Chinese chassis. It is a bit flexy, but it doesn't feel like a bottom bidder product. I wonder if stiffness is one of those things like weight that impart the feeling of quality but actually have no relation in practice. I will know better in a few weeks.
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Oct 21, 2023 17:44
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Lockback posted:If it turns on still, wipe it and donate it/give it away on FB marketplace. A surface 3 is still pretty useable and there's almost certainly someone in your area that might get use/need it. The battery is swollen to the point that the display is popping off the front. I don't think it's particularly safe to reuse except as parts.
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Oct 21, 2023 19:08
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isndl posted:The battery is swollen to the point that the display is popping off the front. I don't think it's particularly safe to reuse except as parts. Ahh, yeah. Your probably fine relying on Bitlocker but I'd probably wipe it myself too.
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Oct 21, 2023 20:33
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Kin posted:I dunno if it only burst recently (which would presumably be the reason the battery fully died). It's good to keep an eye on the thickness of battery devices and take measures at the first sign of swelling. 4 years ago I bought a used laptop and it started swelling within hours after I plugged in for the first time. This was pretty noticeable so I knew to contact the company. They send me another used battery as a replacement and that worked for over a year before starting to swell. At that point the warranty had expired and I bought a new battery from third party. This time I drew a sketch of the battery, used a caliber to measure the thickness on different sections and noted them down. So if it starts swelling even a little bit I can compare the notes. bike tory posted:Probably, and it's technically true in terms of best practice, but it's dumb advice because no one will follow the advice, as you point out. Yeah, that's the truth. I wish laptops had a method to limit the charging to 85% or something, and when it's plugged in power it directly from cable and bypass the battery. And only start recharging when it reaches 70% or so.
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Oct 21, 2023 20:57
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Saukkis posted:Yeah, that's the truth. I wish laptops had a method to limit the charging to 85% or something, and when it's plugged in power it directly from cable and bypass the battery. And only start recharging when it reaches 70% or so. I think most gaming laptops come with software that allows for this, I know my Legion does. I think it actually cuts charge at 50% You are supposed to tell it when you are unplugging to take it on the go to top up with rapid charge. e: wait not positive on that power passthrough part missed that first read.
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Oct 21, 2023 21:02
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Saukkis posted:Yeah, that's the truth. I wish laptops had a method to limit the charging to 85% or something, and when it's plugged in power it directly from cable and bypass the battery. And only start recharging when it reaches 70% or so. They tend to. Check the BIOS. Dell calls this option "Primarily AC" or something like that. Not my photo, but: 
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Oct 21, 2023 21:18
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Saukkis posted:It's good to keep an eye on the thickness of battery devices and take measures at the first sign of swelling. 4 years ago I bought a used laptop and it started swelling within hours after I plugged in for the first time. This was pretty noticeable so I knew to contact the company. They send me another used battery as a replacement and that worked for over a year before starting to swell. At that point the warranty had expired and I bought a new battery from third party. This time I drew a sketch of the battery, used a caliber to measure the thickness on different sections and noted them down. So if it starts swelling even a little bit I can compare the notes. Lenovo supports that on some thinkpads, at least. Found the option in the lenovo vantage windows store app.
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Oct 22, 2023 01:20
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Lockback posted:Frameworks seem neat if your into the DIY aspect, but it terms of cost efficiency it's not very good, even long term. Most of their laptops are pretty low spec, and the price of the mainboards are pretty much in the ballpark of entire similarly specced entire laptops. You would probably save money and have better machines just replacing your laptop every 3-4 years. I have a sneaking suspicion nobody told Framework about threadlock. The teardown videos I saw didn't have them, which quietly surprised me.
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Oct 22, 2023 03:38
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Joey Steel posted:General build quality, impressions of the hardware. It looks like a dream come true for repairability, but limited selection on the hardware currently. I just got mine and I actually like it quite a bit. It looks and feels good, the screen is nice, and contrary to the other goon, I don't find it too flexible but maybe my standards are just lower. I have the 7840u version and I'm running f39, with KDE installed on top. There's some jank because it feels like AMD takes a year to get Linux firmware right for new SOCs. If you're considering the amd variant, running something other than their officially supported distros (f39 beta... Ubuntu 22.04 with OEM kernel?) might be painful - I would not choose to do this as my first Linux experience if I were you. I like the laptop a lot though and don't regret buying it. Hopefully they stick around long term.
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Oct 22, 2023 03:46
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Joey Steel posted:I have a sneaking suspicion nobody told Framework about threadlock. The teardown videos I saw didn't have them, which quietly surprised me. Well they want everyone to be able to get in, fiddle with things, and get it all back together as easily and with as little effort as possible. Like they ship each laptop with a screwdriver that has a spudger on the back end, that way they can guarantee that everyone has all the tools needed to get into the laptop. So it makes sense they wouldn't want to make the screws too hard to move. And I won't deny that it's a tradeoff. I've had mine since late February, and I've had to tighten the screws a couple of times, and my guess with the person who was annoyed with the flex is that the screws loosened up a little in shipping. But they're captive screws, so I'm at no risk of losing them, as has happened with cheaper laptops I've bought, and it's an easy fix if it's giving me issues.
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Oct 22, 2023 17:04
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last I heard, they also have a couple extra screws screwed into the chassis itself as backup. I think if you're the kind of person that would buy a Framework, you would either have blue loctite already, or would not think twice about buying a tube. (get the glue stick kind if you can, it's already semi-solid so it dries faster, apply with a toothpick) SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Oct 22, 2023 |
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Oct 22, 2023 17:22
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If the only issue is that you need to tighten screws every once in a while, then I'm gonna say they're in good shape. I have a MacBook pro that developed some creaking that was fixed by buying a pentalobe bit and tightening the case screws. That's a freaking Apple quality laptop that I had to do that for so I'll cut everyone else some slack for that.
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Oct 22, 2023 18:17
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I mean, the biggest issue is they cost significantly more than comparatively spec'd laptops, even thinkpads. That's why I'd suggest them if you get revved by the enthusiast aspect to them, not so much if economics is a big factor.
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Oct 22, 2023 19:08
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Lockback posted:I mean, the biggest issue is they cost significantly more than comparatively spec'd laptops, even thinkpads. That's why I'd suggest them if you get revved by the enthusiast aspect to them, not so much if economics is a big factor. Fair, though for me, the repairability was why i got this. Like my previous laptop was a Legion Y520, and a couple years before this, my keyboard started to have on and off issues. I thought "Oh, I'll just buy a new keyboard and swap it out. Let me check how to do that." And it became very clear that I was never intended to service this thing when the keyboard replacement process was a 45 minute long video that involved totally disassembling everything, including one part where it wanted you to very carefully cut around delicate parts with an exacto knife. No, really. I didn't trust myself to be able to pull that off without risking greater problems, so I just let the keyboard get worse and worse over a couple years until it was borderline unusable. I was entirely fine with the specs of the thing even after all these years, and if I had been able to replace the keyboard, I'm pretty sure I still would have been fine with it. But I didn't really have that choice and had to buy a whole new laptop because one part was failing. So I decided my priority in my next laptop was to make sure I was never in that situation again. Upgradability and being an "enthusiast" machine is completely secondary to me. I just want to know that if part x breaks, I can order a new one and replace it in minutes once it arrives. I'm paying up front to not have to pay more later. Even upgrade wise, so far, Framework has been selling 1 and 2 generation old boards relatively cheaply, and I could see swapping out my 12th gen i5 for a 1 generation old AMD board in like 5 years should I really feel the limitations of this one by that point.
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Oct 22, 2023 20:14
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Lockback posted:I mean, the biggest issue is they cost significantly more than comparatively spec'd laptops, even thinkpads. That's why I'd suggest them if you get revved by the enthusiast aspect to them, not so much if economics is a big factor. Tbh, the price doesn't seem that bad to me; if I spec a comparable t14s it comes out to way more. I'm sure you can catch a sale to make it better though. I think all in it was like 1500 for a sub 3 pound device with a 7840u, 32gb of ram and a 2tb nvme drive (because you can buy your own ram and drive). The screen is good, and it's an aluminum chassis. Especially if you want a lot of ram it gets more competitive, since most odms really love to gouge for it. VorpalFish fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Oct 23, 2023 |
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Oct 23, 2023 03:14
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Would it be a problem to use some velcro to attach a portable T7 Samsung SSD to a laptop lid? The USB-C port is in the rear of the laptop, so the cable management should be fine, and this thing is so light I can't imagine the weight being an issue. My only concern is heat, but it's going to be a data drive, not an OS drive.
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Oct 23, 2023 03:34
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Other than it looking like poo poo that shouldn't cause any issues. Just make sure the cable won't snag on things though.
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Oct 23, 2023 03:42
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VorpalFish posted:Tbh, the price doesn't seem that bad to me; if I spec a comparable t14s it comes out to way more. I'm sure you can catch a sale to make it better though. You can order a comparable P14s with the 1800p OLED screen for $1060 right now.  Not saying the Framework price is bad, but paying full price for a Thinkpad is generally making a mistake. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Oct 23, 2023 |
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Oct 23, 2023 05:16
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Yeah lenovo's online store is run by... someone whose career is heavily invested in showing his boss how he's driving sales through XYZ marketing magiks of perpetual sales stuff Laptops are a commodity so manufacturers try and hide the actual market price (which you could derive by looking at the price year-round and compare it to the annual sale) by having a series of overlapping sales year-round. If you're paying full price... you're not supposed to, you're supposed to go "wow look at this great price" not cross shop and click "buy" Some major news outlet did an interview with someone who runs their website and asked basically "if you're such a big company, why does your website suck so hard?" and their answer was roughly "we don't make any more sales by making it better  "
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Oct 23, 2023 05:31
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Eletriarnation posted:You can order a comparable P14s with the 1800p OLED screen for $1060 right now. Ok that seems like kind of an absurd deal for what it is. Anyone in the market for a light machine not primarily for gaming should probably just get that if they don't want macos. Yeah the website is awful for actually finding anything.
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Oct 23, 2023 12:14
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VorpalFish posted:Tbh, the price doesn't seem that bad to me; if I spec a comparable t14s it comes out to way more. I'm sure you can catch a sale to make it better though. That config with a 1TB SSD comes out to 1679. Right now here's a P14 with 64GB of ram and a nicer OLED screen for 1059: https://slickdeals.net/f/16994893-lenovo-thinkpad-p14s-14-2-8k-oled-ryzen-7-pro-7840u-64gb-lpddr5-1tb-ssd-1059-free-shipping?src=frontpage Lenovo runs sales about 75% of the time, it's trivial to find one. If Framework starts doing that great, but that's a big gulf between the two and the P14 gives you more RAM and an (I guess arguably) nicer screen edit: Yeah beaten, that is a great deal but the T14 has been similarly specced (with 32GB of ram) for ~ $1000 a ton this last year. Quixzlizx posted:Would it be a problem to use some velcro to attach a portable T7 Samsung SSD to a laptop lid? The USB-C port is in the rear of the laptop, so the cable management should be fine, and this thing is so light I can't imagine the weight being an issue. My only concern is heat, but it's going to be a data drive, not an OS drive. It'll look janky, but I'd be most concerned with the fact that any force coming down on the lid is going to get concentrated. You're probably better off securing the cables but just letting it be free next to the laptop.
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Oct 23, 2023 15:43
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Sorry if this is obvious, but are Lenovo T* laptops preferred over P* ones or something?
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Oct 23, 2023 17:04
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namlosh posted:Sorry if this is obvious, but are Lenovo T* laptops preferred over P* ones or something? not exactly, the P series stands for "performance" or something and indicates it'll be bigger, heavier, more expensive but more powerful and probably have a workstation gpu in there. the T series is your standard everyday lightweight office laptop, the P series is a portable workstation. thinkpad P series doesn't stand out much because most people will go for a gaming laptop at that point, but if you really do want a road warrior CAD or lightweight 3d workstation computer it's a good option.
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Oct 23, 2023 17:39
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namlosh posted:Sorry if this is obvious, but are Lenovo T* laptops preferred over P* ones or something? T is reasonably slim and overall workhorse model. In terms of enterprise, it's the jack of all trades laptop you can give to anyone. It's called the flagship series which I think is grandoise but it's basically a solid machine for any non-specialized purpose. The P is the performance line, but the P14 overlaps a ton with the T14. Usually the P line comes with a GPU but this one doesn't. Instead is just slightly thicker than the T (you probably wouldn't notice unless they were next to each other) and it's only available slightly specced up. I'd also guess the P comes with more ports/connectivity but I haven't looked.
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Oct 23, 2023 17:42
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Those are both awesome answers and I really appreciate it Got it
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Oct 23, 2023 18:07
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I'm sure this is a slow buggy creaky piece of poo poo but, hell, of it didn't trigger my "buy it now" itch https://www.tomshardware.com/news/risc-v-laptop-looks-like-thinkpad 
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Oct 24, 2023 01:09
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Gao posted:Well they want everyone to be able to get in, fiddle with things, and get it all back together as easily and with as little effort as possible. Like they ship each laptop with a screwdriver that has a spudger on the back end, that way they can guarantee that everyone has all the tools needed to get into the laptop. So it makes sense they wouldn't want to make the screws too hard to move. And I won't deny that it's a tradeoff. I've had mine since late February, and I've had to tighten the screws a couple of times, and my guess with the person who was annoyed with the flex is that the screws loosened up a little in shipping. But they're captive screws, so I'm at no risk of losing them, as has happened with cheaper laptops I've bought, and it's an easy fix if it's giving me issues. That's the thing, threadlock isn't really making noticeably harder to screw so much as be there to keep aluminum from vibrating loose over time. Think sticky note glue more than superglue. Either way, I decided that I was price insensitive enough to pull the trigger since that seemed thr main issue. Grabbed a 16 with the 8g videocard. Thanks all.
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Oct 24, 2023 03:57
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Looking for some input from the thread - someone earlier answered my question regarding an Asus A15 earlier which was very helpful thank you. Basically I'm looking to get a new machine as my desktop is now well over 10 years old (with a near 6 year old GPU) and its really starting to show. I was pricing up building a new desktop, but the short of it is that my wife and I are hoping to have a baby in the very near future, and the amount of space available for a desktop is going to shrink considerably. Furthermore I'm aware how potentially destructive kids can be; considering my wife has already managed to accidentally spill a full cup of tea on my desktop (which I was able to save through immediate and frantic application of IPA and a toothbrush), so it is not outside the realm of possibility that my kid decides my PC looks thirsty and pours and entire glass of orange juice into it. A laptop can be be hidden out of sight and out of reach when not being used. Having spent plenty of time using my Thinkpad X280 that I got not too long ago, I really want to get something with a mostly or all metal chassis, and I'm eyeing up the Lenovo Legion 7 Slim. Its available in the UK with a Ryzen 7 and RTX 4060 with an RRP of £1459, so I'm hoping that once Black Friday hits it will get knocked down to the £1200 range. The cheapest version with an RTX 4070 comes with an Intel i9 and starts from about £1800 on sale, so thats well out of my budget. Everything I've watched and read about this machine is very positive, and it looks like this is the ideal machine for me. Has anyone had any experience with them, or am I about to make a catastrophic error? Thanks. EDIT - I should also point out I like the more subdued styling of the Legion series, as opposed to the tryhard GAMER aesthetic that seems to plague most machines. Lord Ludikrous fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Oct 24, 2023 |
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Oct 24, 2023 17:42
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I can't comment on UK pricing, but maybe also check out the Legion 5 Pro if being as thin as possible isn't a requirement?
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Oct 24, 2023 17:55
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