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Vegetable posted:It would be easier to engage in this discussion if your source isn’t an incoherent rant by a right-wing think tank in a tabloid newspaper. Here's a less biased source that explains some of the history about it. https://apnews.com/article/phonics-science-reading-c715dea43f338f163715b01b83bb1066
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Oct 20, 2023 05:47
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Vegetable posted:It would be easier to engage in this discussion if your source isn’t an incoherent rant by a right-wing think tank in a tabloid newspaper. Sorry, it was just the first google result that I threw in at the last second so that people didn't think I was making it all up. There is a lot of data on this though.
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Oct 20, 2023 05:52
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Our kindergarten is back to doing phonics now.
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Oct 20, 2023 06:37
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i was hooked on phonics as a childe
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Oct 20, 2023 07:01
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mikeycp posted:i was hooked on phonics as a childe did it work for you?
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Oct 20, 2023 08:47
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Jaxyon posted:did it work for you? jury is still out on that one, kevin
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Oct 20, 2023 08:55
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Speaking of schools https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZQ8zUsl4Zg https://www.ocregister.com/2023/10/19/official-charged-with-embezzling-more-than-14-million-from-oc-school-district/ "A former senior Orange County education official has been arrested after authorities allege he embezzled more than $14 million in public school funds over a seven-year span." "Prosecutors say from August 2022 to July 2023 alone, Contreras embezzled more than $4 million, using the money to pay $1.9 million to American Express, to withdraw $325,000 in cash from ATMs, to transfer more than $130,000 to a person he would later marry and to purchase a BMW SUV." https://www.justice.gov/usao-cdca/pr/former-orange-county-education-official-arrested-complaint-alleging-he-embezzled-more "Contreras was the senior director of fiscal services at Magnolia School District, which serves students in Anaheim and Stanton. In this role, Contreras, whom the school district hired in 2006, managed the district’s fiscal operations. The schools in this district educate children from preschool through sixth grade – 81% of whom are classified as socio-economically disadvantaged. Each year, since 2009, Magnolia School District has received millions of dollars in federal funds. According to an affidavit filed with the complaint last week and unsealed today, from August 2016 to July 2023, Contreras embezzled more than $14 million from Magnolia School District by making unauthorized payments to himself from district funds – payments that came from more than 250 checks from the district that were deposited into Contreras’ personal bank account. The checks ranged from approximately $11,000 to approximately $95,000 and listed fictitious persons as the payee, the affidavit alleges. From August 2022 to July 2023 alone, Contreras allegedly embezzled more than $4.1 million from Magnolia School District. During this time, Contreras used the embezzled funds to pay more than $1.9 million to American Express, withdraw $325,000 in cash from ATMs, and transfer more than $130,000 to his partner, whom he married in August 2023. Contreras allegedly also used the illicitly obtained funds to purchase his residence in Yorba Linda for approximately $1.5 million as well as a BMW SUV for approximately $127,000, which he used to deposit embezzled funds into his personal bank account via drive-thru ATMs. Contreras purchased the Yorba Linda residence in 2020 and paid for more than $1 million of it via a wire transfer from his personal bank account. Contreras also allegedly altered bank statements submitted as part of the loan application for this property to hide funds he embezzled from the school district. The affidavit further alleges that Contreras altered documents over the years to hide his embezzlement, and that he used some of the funds to pay $190,000 to a West Hollywood dermatologist and surgeon for cosmetic treatments. He also allegedly used the embezzled funds to purchase luxury items sold by Versace and Louis Vuitton."
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Oct 20, 2023 09:35
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Civil servants should not be making curriculum decisions. Those are mostly administrators with little to no background in actual pedagogy. Those civil servants are the ones who spend insane amounts of money to hire educational personalities (snake oil salesmen who taught in a classroom for a year or two 15 years ago and now make six or seven figures on the speaking circuit) to come deliver mandatory teacher development training to actual practicing teachers who are certainly more current than people who haven't been in a classroom for at least a decade.
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Oct 20, 2023 13:55
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OgNar posted:The affidavit further alleges that Contreras altered documents over the years to hide his embezzlement, and that he used some of the funds to pay $190,000 to a West Hollywood dermatologist and surgeon for cosmetic treatments. He also allegedly used the embezzled funds to purchase luxury items sold by Versace and Louis Vuitton." repo his skin
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Oct 20, 2023 16:51
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Yeah that's just pure evil, only half a step down from stealing oxygen bottles out of the NICU If his house hasn't burnt down by the end of the day I'd be surprised
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Oct 20, 2023 17:47
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Rodenthar Drothman posted:Cursive rocks and y’all getting big mad about it maybe should just chill. for real. if i didnt take handwritten notes i didn't remember poo poo. i relearned cursive just to take notes with less fatigue. obviously there's a million problems with education but this aint one
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Oct 22, 2023 08:03
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Hadlock posted:Because you need to know how to do your own taxes, and is the bedrock for teaching logic across all cultures for the last 4000-6000 years. Vs cursive, which.... maybe 500 million people across the entire span of human history have ever known or used, and is now on the edge of being a dead writing style are you ever not wrong about anything cursive is virtually the entire history of handwriting in essentially every alphabet-based writing system. the reason separating each letter is called "print" is because it was invented for movable-type printing presses. cursive is superior in virtually every way, it's just easier to teach kids to write in print when you're teaching them out of printed books because all their reference material is in print e: there's virtually nothing stopping us from switching to cursive reference materials either, besides cultural inertia. modern digital typesetting suffers from none of the logistical and technical limitations that motivated the invention of print script. Cactus Ghost fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Oct 22, 2023 |
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Oct 22, 2023 08:13
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El Mero Mero posted:If you bring cursive back make it as part of an art class with big fountain pens. In that context cursive rocks. It’s just garbage when you’re getting told to do everything else in it. I like this a lot. My handwriting has suffered over the years because I had to sacrifice precision for speed. Nowadays I basically scrawl out chicken scratch printed letters that are vaguely readable (granted, 99% or more of my writing is done electronically these days as well - even my signatures are electronic most of the time). But recontextualizing the script as something that can be beautiful lets you take the time to properly form the letters and make something neat.
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Oct 22, 2023 08:26
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My 5 year old asked me how to write his name in "scribble language" and it made me think of this thread
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Oct 22, 2023 09:49
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For what it's worth, I re-learned cursive a couple years back and discovered that it enormously increased my writing speed - which is nice, because there's any number of situations in which you can write, but not type - and my retention of what I'd written. There's quite a few studies showing that written notes are significantly more effective at providing retention and comprehension, and my experience bore that out. I definitely regret not taking it seriously enough to have useable cursive in college, would have made my note-taking much more effective. That said, I second the notion that it's probably better off being approached from the artistic standpoint, and letting people adopt it as their handwriting style if it clicks for them. A calligraphy module with cheap fountain pens in elementary school art class seems perfectly reasonable.
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Oct 22, 2023 10:28
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if we have the money to give kids chromebooks we sure as poo poo have the money to get them a pilot metro the poo poo's like $15 and is made of steel. it'll outlive you, unlike the chromebook.
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Oct 22, 2023 10:39
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Hadlock posted:The price cap on insulin is a real bummer but I don't take it so I don't know much about it. Let the bike shedding about cursive continue. Eli Lilly is headquartered in Indiana, and Novo Nordisk and Sanofi are both headquartered in Europe. Those are the big three in the insulin cartel. I am delighted that California is developing its own capacity to manufacture its own insulin.
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Oct 22, 2023 10:46
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i would say that i hope the state production makes their stock price all dip but if it does the supreme court will probably call it an infringement of their corporate personhood or some poo poo
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Oct 22, 2023 11:35
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Kestral posted:A calligraphy module with cheap fountain pens in elementary school art class seems perfectly reasonable. I'm already writing up a discrimination lawsuit on behalf of left-handed schoolchildren everywhere. Get ready for a ballot proposition allowing lefties to learn cursive backwards (that will fail 95-2).
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Oct 22, 2023 15:43
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lefties learn cursive, but in arabic
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Oct 22, 2023 15:46
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Since we’re sharing anecdotes about cursive as evidence for this decision being good, here is mine to the contrary. I learned it in grade school and then never used it once my entire life after getting into high school. Every assignment I did had to be turned in typed in hs, undergrad, and grad school. In class exams specifically asked you not to use cursive because graders found it hard to read. As an adult, all my messages to others are via my phone or laptop. I do write notes to myself by hand but I do it in print and have never noticed any issue with doing them that way. I don’t feel like I’m living some sort of unique existence given that the current moral panics are about kids being on their phones too much. Typing is the future, cursive is the past, except in niche circumstances. In those cases people can learn it as an adult like the people here did. I just don’t see how this change can be construed as a step forward in any way. It’s a pure conservative desire to return to the past.
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Oct 22, 2023 15:49
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Cactus Ghost posted:lefties learn cursive, but in arabic Bonus: the Central Valley and Orange County will get really mad about this
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Oct 22, 2023 15:49
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imo the problem is teaching kids to write in both print and script. one is actual handwriting, the other is a crude approximation of an obsolete printing process. people thinking of actual handwriting as some kind of useless adjunct is only because we teach printing first and then push the other after they've already got the hang of the first, so it becomes an obnoxious chore. kids aren't ever going to need to operate a movable-type press and will learn to read print just as a side effect of using electronics. ceasing to teach them two different systems was the right idea, they just stopped the wrong one
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Oct 22, 2023 16:09
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Cursive is to not lift a quill pen too much because they are easy to break. The idea of cursive writing being faster pre-print houses when documents were copied in the illuminated style at scriptoriums is amusing. Studies showed that school kids who learned cursive vs those who didn't have no increased writing speed using either style. Now, with computer ubiquity, the ease of using a million other fonts and always having a type writer in your pocket, cursive script may as well be art class or part of college curricula for history and curation studies.
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Oct 22, 2023 16:13
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did y'all not take handwritten notes all through school and college cause i sure did. if nothing else being able to write without lifting a pen is useful for that
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Oct 22, 2023 17:11
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Yeah as a child of the 70's, cursive is fine, and really classy if you write someone a handwritten card or note without goony block letters like a 4 year old.  I think most cursive users just hybridize it and use regular capital letters for things S, F, J, T instead of all the crazy loopity loops.
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Oct 22, 2023 17:18
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lmao that guy paid $190,000 to look like that wtf is the point of being a fourteen-millionaire if you have to worry about your looks but poo poo, if you're mad that one guy stole $14m from california public schools, wait until you learn what the voters of 1978 did
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Oct 22, 2023 17:21
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Qtotonibudinibudet posted:did y'all not take handwritten notes all through school and college cause i sure did. if nothing else being able to write without lifting a pen is useful for that I was never a notes taker, I quickly figured out I internalize information better when I just focus and listen. Relatedly my handwriting is printed dogshit, my signature is a scribble, I would have to think about it if I tried to write cursive today
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Oct 22, 2023 17:27
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Centrist Committee posted:greg12 2024
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Oct 22, 2023 17:29
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Qtotonibudinibudet posted:did y'all not take handwritten notes all through school and college cause i sure did. if nothing else being able to write without lifting a pen is useful for that I just showed up for tests and played video games or slept in
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Oct 22, 2023 17:48
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Qtotonibudinibudet posted:did y'all not take handwritten notes all through school and college cause i sure did. if nothing else being able to write without lifting a pen is useful for that
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Oct 22, 2023 18:51
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Steven Mnuchin should have typed his dumb signature on all those dollar bills
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Oct 22, 2023 19:01
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Schools should teach useful life skills, like how to use a Linux command line.
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Oct 22, 2023 19:25
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Qtotonibudinibudet posted:did y'all not take handwritten notes all through school and college cause i sure did. if nothing else being able to write without lifting a pen is useful for that
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Oct 22, 2023 19:29
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First of May posted:Schools should teach useful life skills, like how to use a Linux command line.  cursive's not gonna keep the velociraptors from eating your face
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Oct 22, 2023 19:58
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Vegetable posted:Everyone uses a laptop these days old man people who grew up writing for everything find it easier to remember written notes people who grew up with computer's from the age of 3 find it easier to remember typed notes weird poo poo i know.
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Oct 22, 2023 20:01
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CPColin posted:I'm already writing up a discrimination lawsuit on behalf of left-handed schoolchildren everywhere. Get ready for a ballot proposition allowing lefties to learn cursive backwards (that will fail 95-2). they have ink for lefties that dries near instantly anyway the solution for it being as part of art class is good. do that, california
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Oct 22, 2023 20:24
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First of May posted:Schools should teach useful life skills, like how to use a Linux command line. No if they do this I'll lose my severely overinflated salary
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Oct 22, 2023 23:29
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First of May posted:Schools should teach useful life skills, like how to use a Linux command line. You're not wrong I can't find the article right now but california in particular is having trouble filling computer science K-12 teacher positions Computer touching should be taught cheek and jowl alongside wood and metal shop, as boomers age out of the workforce all the scripts that run the back office of all these small businesses need to be maintained and updated. Not everyone needs to be a $300,000/yr full stack FAANG guy developing VR headsets nobody uses/buys I took ap computer science (objectie c++) in high school, you get an hour of instruction every day, even the teacher noted that college students would come back 1, 2, 3 years later and pointed out that one year of computer science in high school is equivalent to over a year and a half of computer science in college. Two full years of computer science in high school covers the first three years of practical theory and applied practice of computer "science". I never finished college but those two years of computer science in high school have dragged me out of minimum wage chain resturaunt food service and into home ownership. I definitely feel there is significant value in propping up comp sci in K-12. Certainly enough that I'd trade cursive for it. Also got some grim programming instruction in elementary school, the teacher's son found a bunch of late-70s very very early 1980s era TRS-80 (lovingly nicknamed "trash 80") in a dumpster, cleaned them up, brought them in, along with a bunch of back issues of BASIC programming magazines all we had to do was type in the programs printed in the back of each issue (with no typos) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80 Hadlock fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Oct 22, 2023 |
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Oct 22, 2023 23:46
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Hadlock posted:Computer touching should be taught cheek and jowl alongside wood and metal shop Do wood and metal shop still exist in most schools? I wasn't aware of any where I grew up. My dad talked about them when he was in highschool in the 60s, but I figured they were long gone.
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Oct 23, 2023 00:06
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