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I said come in! posted:Yep, letting these trucks in is to just calm down international pressure on Israel and make it look like they are doing something that doesn't involve killing everyone in Gaza. 20 trucks isn't even the bare minimum though. And lol here's the natural ending to it https://twitter.com/ytirawi/status/1716102678986580355
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Oct 22, 2023 22:33
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mannerup posted:as the mediating party between the two for the purpose of hostage negotiations, I doubt they are publicly going to weigh in because it has the potential to compromise their diplomatic efforts (and also shows Israel and Hamas that they will go to the media to release what are sensitive private discussions) Okay, so how are we supposed to know that when they said 'yesterday we offered to release two hostages, but Israel declined' it was true? If Israel posts on twitter that they promised ceasefire if Hamas released all hostages, but Hamas declined, and then Hamas said that they wouldn't engage with shameless Israeli propaganda and lies like that, would you just trust Israel over Hamas because it was on Israel's official twitter account?
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Oct 22, 2023 22:34
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 22, 2023 22:41
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Shageletic posted:And lol here's the natural ending to it Amazing, and right after every western news outlet reported that they entered Gaza. [edit] Never mind, turns out that tweet is wrong. I said come in! fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Oct 22, 2023 |
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Oct 22, 2023 22:43
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The head of the UN aid chief also seems to think they crossed in (and a few more also) so I think we might need more corroboration on the "they were rejected" tweet. https://twitter.com/UNReliefChief/status/1716183555343085624
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Oct 22, 2023 22:46
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Irony Be My Shield posted:The head of the UN aid chief also seems to think they crossed in (and a few more also) so I think we might need more corroboration on the "they were rejected" tweet. Yeah and https://twitter.com/JulietteTouma, who is on the ground in Gaza and quoted in multiple articles saying the trucks crossed in has not posted any updates saying that they have been turned around or anything. It's still a pittance and nowhere near enough but it doesn't seem like they got turned around?
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Oct 22, 2023 22:49
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 22, 2023 22:53
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Shageletic posted:And lol here's the natural ending to it Irony Be My Shield posted:The head of the UN aid chief also seems to think they crossed in (and a few more also) so I think we might need more corroboration on the "they were rejected" tweet. The trucks definitely went into Gaza, there's numerous mainstream news sites that literally have photos of the trucks passing through the border. The only even remotely similar claim I can find is ABC News reporting that the trucks went into Gaza but the aid has yet to be distributed for unclear reasons: https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...05?id=104049894 quote:Aid in Gaza has yet to be distributed: UNRWA spokeswoman Obviously, that's extremely vague and doesn't quote anyone specific by name, and is only a bit more than an hour old, so it's quite difficult to find further info on. Note also that it only refers to today's 17 (or 14, sources vary) aid trucks. Yesterday's convoy of 20 aid trucks definitely unloaded their aid and came back to Egypt empty.
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Oct 22, 2023 22:53
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 22, 2023 23:04
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Main Paineframe posted:I use archive.is to bypass paywalls. It doesn't work for everything, but it's fine for Haaretz. Here's the article text: thank ye kindly I was reading "no known ties" as though they had looked into his family specifically, rather than simply that he had not been verified by the original Families organization. That clarifies why he hasn't been declared a transparent plant. The counterprotest was openly organized to disrupt the meeting, and no one is denying that, only whether Netanyahu had any involvement. Paladinus posted:Okay, so how are we supposed to know that when they said 'yesterday we offered to release two hostages, but Israel declined' it was true? If Israel posts on twitter that they promised ceasefire if Hamas released all hostages, but Hamas declined, and then Hamas said that they wouldn't engage with shameless Israeli propaganda and lies like that, would you just trust Israel over Hamas because it was on Israel's official twitter account? We may never see an independent reporting, but this is supposedly Benjamin Netanyahu's response: quote:The office of the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, denied Hamas’s claim of an offer to release more hostages, describing it as “mendacious propaganda”, adding: “We will continue to do everything necessary to bring all the captives and missing back home.” They couldn't even finish the sentence without telling a lie; Netanyahu has made quite clear that he prioritizes killing Hamas over not killing hostages. That stretches the credibility of the former claim, whereas Hamas did unconditionally release two hostages on friday. It is not impossible that they were lying about the second set of hostages, but if I had to trust one account in this matter, it'd be theirs. Bibi doesn't even seem to suggest he would accept the unconditional release of two Israeli hostages if they're offering, which seems like an obvious response. In your example, if Hamas responded with a flat denial, I would be skeptical, but if they responded, for instance, by saying they were not aware of such an offer, but willing to negotiate a ceasefire, that would be more credible.
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Oct 22, 2023 23:12
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Neurolimal posted:In-My-Opinion, the hospital strike gets litigated so much because there is no cover story that can be thrown over it; it didn't demolish a building that they can claim was full of Qassam rockets or Terror Balloons or whatever, going off the ground damage they clearly didn't collapse any secret Hamas Terror Tunnels, they've not even alleged that a rocket was launched from the parking lot (their favorite in the past for demolishing utilities). It's bloody, visceral, and absent any exculpatory path for Israel beyond "wasn't me". Just like shooting Shireen, it's a lightning rod of brutality that persuades Joe Schmoe because it's so evidently unjustifiable. I don't think I'd underestimate what happens if they move in in force with the directive to obliterate Hamas. For all the prep work Hamas has, I think that advantage melts away when there's no attempt to preserve infrastructure. If the MO is 1. Proceed until you encounter resistance. 2. Turn everything within 100 yards into the surface of the moon IED's are going to have reduced effectiveness. There's no urban combat if you turn every structure to dust. For all the pushing their people could do, there's only so far, any other states are going to go. Cut off petro, pressure campaigns, sure. Commit any military assets, nope. Hezbollah might act around the edges, but Israel isn't going to face any real meaningful threat to their population centers, as pardon my detour into maybe Clancychat, they 100% have a deterrent triad with second strike capability with as much projected canned sunshine as China. Besides there's regional geopolitics if Iran's other proxies get involved. I feel like the Abraham accords were less that those states suddenly are fine with Israel and more that they see them as a counterweight to Iran. The west, while they acted in some ways, mostly tolerated apartheid in South Africa right up until the Soviet Union collapsed and the belief that somehow apartheid SA was a counterweight to the commies evaporated. They might find Israel detestable, but a detestable Israel still serves some of their other regional aims. Just like the US tolerates or props up plenty of other awful regimes because it serves our aims.
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Oct 22, 2023 23:13
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Ms Adequate posted:It does feel like "Rolling the tanks into Gaza City and loving razing the place" is something the IDF would be ready to do on like, 48 hour's notice, max, so yeah I get the feeling that someone, somewhere high up in Tel Aviv is extremely gun-shy about it. Though I would propose a couple of alternative reasons to Neurolimal's suggestion that they anticipate it'll cost them a lot more than they want to pay: one is that they are in serious back-channel negotiations for hostage releases and are holding off until those conclude one way or the other; two is that regardless of the degree of ground casualties they expect they're willing to sit back and keep hammering the place with air power before they go in. Israel has not won a major ground operation against near parity opponents since the '70s. And they're poor at attrition warfare despite being a conscripted army. Invading Gaza would be like trying to subdue a rogue Texas, too close for comfort. And that's not getting into if West Bank and Lebanon get dragged in further.
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Oct 22, 2023 23:27
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Neurolimal posted:To my point, Israel's allegedly been committing probing attacks into Gaza to figure out just how badly things are going to go if they actually do a full-scale invasion: That same account seems to be showing a pattern of the IDF targeting reporters (even more than usual). 22 dead so far.
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Oct 22, 2023 23:45
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Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:I don't think I'd underestimate what happens if they move in in force with the directive to obliterate Hamas. I think you extremely underestimate a people whose only choice is to fight to exist. They may not win but history has shown it ain't going to be easy.
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Oct 22, 2023 23:47
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BREAKING NEWS: Hamas, the current iteration of ISIS that mainly heckles the Taliban/Syria, and the english wing of Al-Qaeda have formally united to cook meth in a kibbutz. https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1716176823862587814?s=20
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Oct 23, 2023 00:15
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Neurolimal posted:BREAKING NEWS: Hamas, the current iteration of ISIS that mainly heckles the Taliban/Syria, and the english wing of Al-Qaeda have formally united to cook meth in a kibbutz. I'm willing to accept the plausibility of middle management leaders of a raid having documents about the planning and objectives of the raid but this really strains credulity. also sky news isn't totally laughable but it's not the best but I don't think that matters because this is Israeli govt sources saying something that fails the smell test
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Oct 23, 2023 00:29
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 23, 2023 00:32
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Al-Qaeda should adopt a better brand font if they're going to put it on all their materials. Looks very cheap and unprofessional right now.
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Oct 23, 2023 00:33
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Funny that they made sure “Al Qaeda” was in English and all caps.
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Oct 23, 2023 00:35
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Were they also carrying Sims 3 copies?
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Oct 23, 2023 00:42
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Neurolimal posted:BREAKING NEWS: Hamas, the current iteration of ISIS that mainly heckles the Taliban/Syria, and the english wing of Al-Qaeda have formally united to cook meth in a kibbutz. I think I've heard this one before, are they going to say that Hezbollah has WMDs and that's why they need to strike Lebanon as well?
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Oct 23, 2023 00:50
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This is all gonna be parroted by Western media without any thought to how ridiculous it is of course
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Oct 23, 2023 00:57
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It's comical how transparently bad Israeli fakes are when you've only heard what they're claiming and Western media credulously publishes it after actually seeing the obviously phony documents. Guess it's not really comical in light of current events and that a bunch of guys running a charity are serving what are in essence life sentences due to that ridiculous fakery.
Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Oct 23, 2023 |
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Oct 23, 2023 00:59
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That stuff reminds me of Nigerian scams, but maybe this entire time those scams were coming from Israel.
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Oct 23, 2023 01:47
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What a pathetic media environment when 14 paltry trucks gets applauded and churches and hospital suffer random blasts that occur out of nowhere. This will just lead to more and more mistrust of media and the governments. People see what's happening and the west is really undermining any shred of moral authority it still had. It will be interesting to read about the media manipulation when things settle, unfortunately a lot of Palestinians are going to be slaughtered before that happens.
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Oct 23, 2023 01:49
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hadji murad posted:What a pathetic media environment when 14 paltry trucks gets applauded and churches and hospital suffer random blasts that occur out of nowhere. Could you post what media sources are applauding the trucks and ignoring the other things? My view is biased since most of the media I've been seeing on I/P lately has just been in this thread but I haven't seen anyone really do this.
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Oct 23, 2023 01:54
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hadji murad posted:What a pathetic media environment when 14 paltry trucks gets applauded and churches and hospital suffer random blasts that occur out of nowhere. I mean yeah when the State Department is talking about human rights abuses and then they park two aircraft carriers so that Israel can commit ethnic cleansing in peace. Also getting whiplash from liberals supporting Ukraine 100% and then Israel
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Oct 23, 2023 02:01
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Apparently Biden pushed Netanyahu to ensure continuous flow of humanitarian aid to Gaza. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-biden-netanyahu-gaza-aid-white-house/ Right after that the right-wing Minister of National Security tweeted this: https://twitter.com/itamarbengvir/status/1716191291791302680?s=20 Translation by Times of Israel posted:Any agreement of ‘continuous aid to Gaza’ that doesn’t include freeing all our hostages is just a continuation of the concept that led us to where we are now. Humanitarian [aid] only in exchange for freeing all the hostages. How much sway does that ministry have on issues like that? Could Hamas potentially agree to exchange hostages for aid should that offer become the official line?
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Oct 23, 2023 02:09
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 23, 2023 02:15
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Is Herzog generally regarded as a clown? Because the few times he's been quoted in this thread he's certainly come across as one. Edit: the guardian posted:Israel’s national security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, a far right extremist who was in 2007 convicted of racist incitement against Arabs and backing a group considered by Israel and the US to be a terrorist organisation, has criticised the entry of aid into Gaza. Brucolac fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Oct 23, 2023 |
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Oct 23, 2023 02:21
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socialsecurity posted:Could you post what media sources are applauding the trucks and ignoring the other things? My view is biased since most of the media I've been seeing on I/P lately has just been in this thread but I haven't seen anyone really do this. I looked at the Guardian, NBC, CBS, and the NYT all currently have headlines saying that aid is going into the country. CBS even says aid is flowing in, when the amount of aid let in is a trickle compared to what is needed. They even credit Netanyahu and Biden for it. They are creating a false impression by focusing on the trivial amount that is entering instead of the shortfall. No mention of how controlled the amount of food and water was before this. It comes across as a success story and minimizes the suffering. That is journalistic malpractice and it is clear going forward that none of these outlets can be considered to be impartial and unbiased. They are shooting themselves in the foot because they don't want to piss off their governments.
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Oct 23, 2023 02:34
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Brucolac posted:Is Herzog generally regarded as a clown? Realistically, you have to think that anyone who would lead a de facto Apartheid state without the explicit intent to dismantle it, is going to tend toward clowndom and/or fascism. It comes with the territory. There are, of course, good Israelis, but none of them would accept leadership positions -- even symbolic -- and continue the status quo.
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Oct 23, 2023 02:36
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Apparently some of the worst bombing is going down.  https://twitter.com/nour_odeh/status/1716213439658414313
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Oct 23, 2023 02:40
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PT6A posted:Realistically, you have to think that anyone who would lead a de facto Apartheid state without the explicit intent to dismantle it, is going to tend toward clowndom and/or fascism. It comes with the territory. There are, of course, good Israelis, but none of them would accept leadership positions -- even symbolic -- and continue the status quo.
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Oct 23, 2023 02:41
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 23, 2023 02:41
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mannerup posted:lmao took the best screen cap I could This is just the cover of a 2010 book about an Al-Qaeda leader, Ramzy Youssef, called The Provisions of Jihad in Islam. You can download it right off of archive.org in PDF format. I can give the direct link if anyone wants proof, but wasn't sure if that would be filez.  Edit: looks like other people found it as well https://twitter.com/Seamus_Malek/status/1716278455677923711 Noise Complaint fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Oct 23, 2023 |
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Oct 23, 2023 03:49
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 23, 2023 03:52
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Stanley Pain posted:That same account seems to be showing a pattern of the IDF targeting reporters (even more than usual). 22 dead so far. Yeah I think Israel actually doesnt want to trigger a third Intifada. At what level.of genocide do we see widespread suicide bombing coming back?
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Oct 23, 2023 04:02
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punishedkissinger posted:Yeah I think Israel actually doesnt want to trigger a third Intifada. At what level.of genocide do we see widespread suicide bombing coming back? You'll know we're close the moment you start seeing "western media" and politicians start slightly criticizing Israel, or boots hitting ground somewhere.
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Oct 23, 2023 04:18
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https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1716233516814417961 Is he referring to the two hostages that Netanyahu said weren't real?
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Oct 23, 2023 04:32
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