|
Lagom P-64 owners: How silent should the motor and burrs be when spinning freely with no beans inside? I will hear a whirring noise, or whine that I'm guessing is caused by a bean, or piece of a bean stuck somewhere in the throat of the grinder. It will go away if I adjust the grind setting, or it seems to change when I dump my beans in. I have not disassembled or pulled away the upper burr yet. I think I've only put maybe 3 bags of coffee through it, which is ~1kg. I have the Mizen burrs if that matters.
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2023 17:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 17:49 |
|
|
hypnophant posted:Waste of money if you don’t also upgrade your grinder imo. The capresso doesn’t have enough adjustment to do a good espresso and the end result will be bitter, sour, or muddy. The bambino plus makes nice milk with the automatic steam wand, but so do the various milk frothers, at a third to a tenth the cost amenenema posted:For what it's worth, pairing a good grinder with a cheap coffee maker can net surprisingly good results. My folks have some hand-me-down drip machine; I got them a Baratza Encore and drat if it doesn't result in excellent coffee. The grinders we have do great for Aeropress, French press, pourover, Moka pot, and drip. Aeropress and French press is about all I drink at home and I pretty often use my hand grinder, which also does fine. I'm happy with everything I've been drinking so far and don't see anything needing change there. If it takes adding a new "good" grinder to make the purchase of an espresso machine worth it when we're on a tight budget, I honestly don't care enough to pursue it any further. I've got plenty of options to make coffee that I and other people like to drink, neither of us are pining for espresso, and $500 buys a whole lot of shots from any one of the good coffee shops I can go to if I really have to have espresso. Thanks for the input. We'll take the money we'd have spent on that and get the kid a new bike for Christmas instead.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2023 17:30
|
|
|
HenryJLittlefinger posted:The grinders we have do great for Aeropress, French press, pourover, Moka pot, and drip. Aeropress and French press is about all I drink at home and I pretty often use my hand grinder, which also does fine. I'm happy with everything I've been drinking so far and don't see anything needing change there. If it takes adding a new "good" grinder to make the purchase of an espresso machine worth it when we're on a tight budget, I honestly don't care enough to pursue it any further. I've got plenty of options to make coffee that I and other people like to drink, neither of us are pining for espresso, and $500 buys a whole lot of shots from any one of the good coffee shops I can go to if I really have to have espresso. Good on you for your restraint. I honestly didn't get into espresso for years for similar reasons. Knowing that the grinder probably would (and probably should) be as much if not more than the espresso maker while also taking up space that my current setup did all while making half my tools obsolete was a tough pill to swallow. It was only after a long while of research and consideration that we finally took the plunge. It'll always be an option later on and to be honest, the tech seems to be moving so quickly and getting so cheap for really good alternative products (especially the Taiwanese coffee scene) that in a year or so you might be able to get into it anyway for less than you could now.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2023 17:39
|
|
|
MetaJew posted:Lagom P-64 owners: How silent should the motor and burrs be when spinning freely with no beans inside? audible, but a very low whirr or hum. mine is completely drowned out by a window air conditioner. it is possible for a whole bean to slip past the burrs if the adjuster is unscrewed to its limit, which would become trapped by the clump crusher and cause a fairly unpleasant noise. You could also have a small rock in your beans (it happens sometimes, unfortunately.) Unscrew the upper burr chamber housing (which the adjuster is screwed into) and remove the upper burr carrier and you can easily see into, and remove any obstruction from, the upper chamber.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2023 20:48
|
|
|
I also applaud anybody who takes a look at the costs associated with espresso and decides it's not for them - the barrier is still incredibly high, especially if you're fine going down the street and getting a latte when you're in the mood. When I first looked into espresso, I wanted to avoid pricy grinders but quickly realized everybody was right when they told me I needed it. If you really don't mind manually grinding beans, it will get the job done, but it will be a bit annoying. I've seen some espresso nerds even create elaborate manual setups using a drill to grind quickly instead of dropping $200+ on a grinder. The prices have definitely come down, at least with grinders - a decade or so ago, a good friend of mine went on his Honeymoon to Italy and fell in love with espresso, came home and dropped $1300 on a Mazzer Mini 64mm stepless flat burr grinder. I backed a Kickstarter for TimeMore's Sculptor 064s 64mm stepless flat burr grinder for $300 just a few months ago - it should ship by the end of the year, and retails for $450. It doesn't have the same build quality as the Mazzer, but it produces a pretty similar result for $1000 less. Espresso machines have come down, too, but there's still a high barrier of entry for anything with a proper PID + Flow Control. Corb3t fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Oct 18, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2023 21:03
|
|
|
MetaJew posted:Lagom P-64 owners: How silent should the motor and burrs be when spinning freely with no beans inside? Can you give us a recording? Mine will exhibit a similar sound if there's a fragment of bean trapped somewhere in the wipers. It usually goes away after grinding another load, or if you adjust the burrs coarser and then finer while running the grinder.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2023 03:39
|
|
|
Stunned that I'm a hyper nerd, and at age 36 I'm only now learning how wrong "experiments must only manipulate one variable at a time" actually is. Watched a cool video showing through the power of statistics you can explore lots of variables without doing every possible combination. They're called orthogonal arrays, Taguchi arrays, under the umbrella of design of experiments (DOE). It's widely used in industry but there's exactly one general-audience video on it, published a week ago. So I want to try dialing in a bag using this method! Only trouble... I need to quantify variables and quantify results. What would you change about this plan? Variables ("Parameters"): 1. Grind level 2. Ratio 3. Temperature e: oops, 5 variables & 3 levels means 18 runs. Since I want to run 2 replicants, that's 36 shots which is a bit too much. Cutting dose size for now. Profile: Typically ~6 bar, ramp down to ~2 bar. I'm using a Flair, so I adjust a bit on the fly to "heal" channels. A source of variability, sure, but one that is authentic to the system I'm trying to optimize. Folks with a Decent have a big leg up here though. Measurements ("Responses"): 1. Channel-prone? 2. Overall rating 3. Acidity 4. Bitterness 5. Body 6. Sweetness Anything you'd add or remove? I'll probably weigh the overall rating highest, but good to measure individual components to reveal interesting changes. For my fellow nerds, here's the video. I tried finding other videos on the topic, and I think this one is it. Minute 3:00 - 5:00 for the general idea, the rest is the details and some neat applications. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oULEuOoRd0 BrianBoitano fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Oct 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2023 06:17
|
|
|
BrianBoitano posted:Stunned that I'm a hyper nerd, and at age 36 I'm only now learning how wrong "experiments must only manipulate one variable at a time" actually is. Watched a cool video showing through the power of statistics you can explore lots of variables without doing every possible combination. They're called orthogonal arrays, Taguchi arrays, under the umbrella of design of experiments (DOE). It's widely used in industry but there's exactly one general-audience video on it, published a week ago. How do you plan on quantifying those results in an exact way? Do you have all the testing tools for pH, extraction, etc etc? Even then I think this is too subjective to do multi-variable changes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2023 10:47
|
|
|
Oh it will be entirely subjective but that's not a problem. I enjoy espresso in a subjective way, so optimizing based on what feels good to me is entirely the point. The main idea is that I used to dial in by only making one change, optimizing locally for that one variable. But if the other variables aren't quite right then I'm only exploring a tiny part of the phase space. Dialing in always has the subjective problem. This doesn't solve that, but it does reduce the local optima trap problem.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2023 15:05
|
|
|
BrianBoitano posted:Oh it will be entirely subjective but that's not a problem. I enjoy espresso in a subjective way, so optimizing based on what feels good to me is entirely the point. IMO the dial in by one variable at a time advice is for espresso beginners who don’t know how to properly dial & taste, for particularly difficult bags, or for extreme precision to get that last 10% out of of a cup. At this point, outside of fine tuning, all my “sweet spot” range initial dials tend to adjust more than one variable. It’s certainly an interesting theory, but I don’t think it works with something as unquantifiable as “an excellent espresso shot”. Also, ignoring dose size would generally be a bad idea as that’s one of the few high impact levers you have in dialing. Significantly more so that temperature & pre-infusion time. There’s also the very real issue of precision. Due to the fine particle size, it is absolutely not possible for you to have the exact same grind distribution on multiple shots. With the tools we use for espresso, you can get close, but nothing that is precise enough for using experimentation theory. Your measurements also don’t exactly translate 1:1 as a move in a specific direction. You can easily get acidity from an over extracted, channeled shot. Not to mention that using the standard dialing methods, you could probably dial a bag way quicker than 24 shots of espresso (4 variables, 3 levels, 2 runs as stated).
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2023 16:30
|
|
|
Going to get boring here a bit. There's a concept in statistics called covariance that you see a lot in theoretical finance study, you could probably use it somewhat in espresso since so many variables affect the same factors. Can't really sum it up and it's been years since I studied it but if you google you'd see what I mean. I'll still be changing one variable at a time for my espresso!
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2023 16:45
|
|
|
Yeah this is supposed to account for covariance, which is part of why I'm so excited. I know comparative tasting helps too, so I'll be doing two tests back to back / side to side to highlight differences.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2023 17:52
|
|
|
I started watching James Hoffmann videos for background noise and now I drink a lot of coffee. I've got a French press, Clever Dripper, and Moccamaster for when people visit but I'm becoming unsatisfied with my Hario hand grinder. I've got the slim or mini mill (I think I've seen it called both) and the outer burr wiggles a couple millimeters, making pretty inconsistent grounds. I mean to try the tape mod where you shim it in a little tighter but I'd love to know if there are good electric grinders around the $100-300 range. I only plan to add pour overs to my brews, so I don't need espresso grinding. I want something that can do around 80g (or more) in one go for when my large-cup-loving family are around. Consistency and durability are more important to me than quiet. I don't want to wake my downstairs neighbors but some noise doesn't bother me.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 15:56
|
|
|
Hydrocodone posted:I started watching James Hoffmann videos for background noise and now I drink a lot of coffee. I've got a French press, Clever Dripper, and Moccamaster for when people visit but I'm becoming unsatisfied with my Hario hand grinder. Eureka Mignon Chrono with the filtro pro burrs (default)! I'm always talking about how good this is (especially for the price) and I haven't really seen a good rebuttal to why you should consider anything else anywhere near this price point. The only thing is the grind distribution is almost too good, you need to really dial in your grind because it's not going to have a lot of slightly finer and coarser in the ground product so you can't sorta average your way to good coffee. The Chrono part just means there's a small dial on the side that you can use to have the machine turn off automatically. I just experiment and adjust the dial until it's turning off a few seconds after grinding 30g because that's about as big as I go for pourover. All of these grinders are kinda loud but I like the sound of this one. Light roast seems much louder which makes sense too. I don't think you'll find a lot of grinders that are much quieter or louder.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 16:30
|
|
|
Gunder posted:Can you give us a recording? Mine will exhibit a similar sound if there's a fragment of bean trapped somewhere in the wipers. It usually goes away after grinding another load, or if you adjust the burrs coarser and then finer while running the grinder. I think this is exactly what I'm hearing. Like you've said it will go away by either grinding a new batch of beans or adjusting coarser then finer. I should open up/lift off the top burr just to see what's inside, though. How often do y'all clean out your grinder, or run something like the Cafiza cleaning tablets through it? As far as coffee actually goes, I feel like I am still chasing the right grind setting for my coffee. The last bag and current bag are just not resulting in that great of pourovers and I don't know if it's the fault of the beans or grind setting or what. I am buying lighter roasts and grinding towards the finer end of what Option-O suggests for starting grind ranges with the Mizen burrs. I have found the approximate edge where the brew starts to taste bitter, but if I back off I don't seem to get much more interesting flavors.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 16:55
|
|
|
MetaJew posted:I think this is exactly what I'm hearing. Did you season your burrs at all when you first got the grinder? I don’t have the Mizen burrs, but my SSP Multipurpose burrs required a good bit of seasoning before they started producing good cups. I think I put about 3kg of cheap beans through mine before I got the cups I wanted.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 19:00
|
|
|
Gunder posted:I’ve had my grinder for about 5 months now, and I’ve yet to clean the thing internally. I only drink light roasts though, and they really don’t produce much muck inside the grinder. I think I went about a year between cleans on my last grinder, and even then there wasn’t much to clean out at all. Medium and especially darker roasts would require much more regular cleaning. No I definitely didn't try seasoning it before using it. Were your cheap beans also a light roast? I think I've put maybe 3 bags through it now which would put me at right about 1kg. What grind setting do you use for seasoning? So you go coarse or fine? Run all 3kg though at once or over a few hours? I recall reading a note in the quick start guide advising letting the motor cool down between uses to prevent overheating.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 19:29
|
|
|
MetaJew posted:No I definitely didn't try seasoning it before using it. Were your cheap beans also a light roast? I used some Lavazza light roast at a fairly coarse grind setting, with a fast RPM to blaze through it all. The motor has a 30 second duty cycle, so I did something like a 30-60 second rest for every 30 seconds of grinding. I think I did it over 2 days, because it's pretty boring work. Edit: The results won't be that comparable because of the different burrs, but the SSPs tasted pretty flat and muted until I'd done the seasoning.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 19:34
|
|
|
Gunder posted:I used some Lavazza light roast at a fairly coarse grind setting, with a fast RPM to blaze through it all. The motor has a 30 second duty cycle, so I did something like a 30-60 second rest for every 30 seconds of grinding. I think I did it over 2 days, because it's pretty boring work. Your comment about "flat and muted" feels accurate to me. I'll go pickup some cheaper beans this week and see if that helps at all. I've pulled a handful of espresso shots on my Cafelat Robot and haven't been super satisfied. It'd be cool to see if my opinion changes. I'm still chasing the one time I pulled a shot on that with some cheaper dark roast coffee and it came out surprisingly sweet. Still no idea what I did right that time. That was using a conical hand grinder, though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 19:39
|
|
|
Can't imagine how much fun it is to season hand grinder burs.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 19:43
|
|
|
Hydrocodone posted:I started watching James Hoffmann videos for background noise and now I drink a lot of coffee. I've got a French press, Clever Dripper, and Moccamaster for when people visit but I'm becoming unsatisfied with my Hario hand grinder. At the low end, a baratza encore is the minimally good electric burr grinder. It costs $150 now but you might be able to snag one on sale at black friday. Baratza used to sell refurbished grinders on their site which was a great way to get a bargain, but I guess the new owners (breville) have put a stop to that. At the high end of your range, the fellow ode v2 gets consistently good reviews, fixing the flaws of the v1 while keeping the excellent grind quality. It's $345 but you will probably never ever feel the need to upgrade. worth noting that the v1 is on closeout for $170 which is an insane price for a grinder that is still very good; the main flaw was that the grind didn't go as fine as some people wanted, which shouldn't be a problem for the brew methods you use. Everything else reviews complained about was a minor annoyance at worst. MetaJew posted:How often do y'all clean out your grinder, or run something like the Cafiza cleaning tablets through it? I get in there with a capful of grindex tabs and a soft bristled brush every couple months. It's probably overkill but it only takes a few minutes and it gets the buildup out of the corners.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 19:53
|
|
|
hypnophant posted:At the low end, a baratza encore is the minimally good electric burr grinder. It costs $150 now but you might be able to snag one on sale at black friday. Baratza used to sell refurbished grinders on their site which was a great way to get a bargain, but I guess the new owners (breville) have put a stop to that. I bought an Ode v1 at the first round of discounts and then put the v2 burrs in it, and even at the current closeout price I'd rather have gotten the v2. The feed ramp on the v1 isn't steep enough causing beans to just hang out at the top, and it has static problems. Misting the beans with a little water makes the static problem better while making the feed problems worse.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 20:05
|
|
|
I'm sure you could offload it if you wanted to in the espressoafficionatos discord
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 00:11
|
|
|
Cannon_Fodder posted:I'm sure you could offload it if you wanted to in the espressoafficionatos discord Where can I get an invite to this? I still need to sell my Vario-W and I'm extra lazy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 06:32
|
|
|
MetaJew posted:Where can I get an invite to this? I still need to sell my Vario-W and I'm extra lazy. https://discord.gg/espresso
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 13:16
|
|
|
I was thinking about getting into roasting lately. 8 oz of coffee gets me through 10+ days, for context of how much coffee I drink. Are there any glaring reasons not to try an SR800?
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2023 03:34
|
|
|
Glockamole posted:I was thinking about getting into roasting lately. 8 oz of coffee gets me through 10+ days, for context of how much coffee I drink. Are there any glaring reasons not to try an SR800? While I don't have experience with the SR800, just make sure it can roast as dark as you want. I was under the (potentially false) impression that air roasters like that couldn't roast much past second crack reliably, but as I said, I could be wrong. I personally used a Gene Cafe for years and absolutely adored it. Not only is it easy to use and nice and simple, but it's solid as well. It's a hybrid roaster because it runs hot air over the center plate of the tumbler so it can get a really uniform roast and I was able to (sometimes accidentally) go dark enough for charcoal in it. The batch size was pretty reasonable, too. The Gene Cafe is more expensive than it used to be unfortunately, because I had a great many years with that little machine. Sorry, I just rambled and didn't answer your question.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2023 13:14
|
|
|
SlinkyMink posted:While I don't have experience with the SR800, just make sure it can roast as dark as you want. I was under the (potentially false) impression that air roasters like that couldn't roast much past second crack reliably, but as I said, I could be wrong. I personally used a Gene Cafe for years and absolutely adored it. Not only is it easy to use and nice and simple, but it's solid as well. It's a hybrid roaster because it runs hot air over the center plate of the tumbler so it can get a really uniform roast and I was able to (sometimes accidentally) go dark enough for charcoal in it. The batch size was pretty reasonable, too. The Gene Cafe is more expensive than it used to be unfortunately, because I had a great many years with that little machine. Sorry, I just rambled and didn't answer your question. I beg to differ that final point. I'm trying to see how willing I am to develop the skillset to roast, and I'm a light to medium roast kind of guy, so the SR800 seems like a good initial candidate. And if ever I wear out an SR800 because I like roasting, you've already given me advice about what I might want to upgrade to. Thank you!
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2023 18:51
|
|
|
Glockamole posted:I was thinking about getting into roasting lately. 8 oz of coffee gets me through 10+ days, for context of how much coffee I drink. Are there any glaring reasons not to try an SR800? Depends on if you will want the extended roast chamber, either the official extension tube or aftermarket like razzo roasting, since they make things easier even if you're not roasting more than the stated capacity of the standard chamber. Once you buy one of those, especially the razzo one, it cuts pretty heavily into the value proposition of the sr800 vs something more expensive.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2023 19:08
|
|
|
I got a refurbished SR800 plus extension tube straight from the manufacturer, and it was like $70 less than brand new and very worth it I think. https://www.homeroastingsupplies.com/
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2023 20:23
|
|
|
mulls posted:I got a refurbished SR800 plus extension tube straight from the manufacturer, and it was like $70 less than brand new and very worth it I think. https://www.homeroastingsupplies.com/ 
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2023 21:38
|
|
|
Sir that is very clearly the sr540
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2023 21:55
|
|
|
oops
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2023 22:28
|
|
|
For anyone looking for a single-serve coffee maker: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ratio/ratio-four-a-compact-and-powerful-single-cup-coffee-maker/description The Ratio Four was just launched on Kickstarter and the early bird is $125. I made the video for the launch but have already been paid and don't get anything for talking about it. I do think it's a good price for this size of coffee maker + good aesthetic + 5-year warranty, and I had no idea they'd price it this aggressively.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2023 23:09
|
|
|
You can save like $30 more dollars getting a blemished extension tube instead of just clicking the "add tube" button under the refurbished SR800 listing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 02:53
|
|
|
Glockamole posted:I beg to differ that final point. I'm trying to see how willing I am to develop the skillset to roast, and I'm a light to medium roast kind of guy, so the SR800 seems like a good initial candidate. And if ever I wear out an SR800 because I like roasting, you've already given me advice about what I might want to upgrade to. Thank you! Glad to hear! Hopefully the rabbit hole doesn't go deeper than you want it to. I ended up getting an Aillio Bullet a year or so ago and love it, but it's arrival was definitely one of those, "oh poo poo, did I just make a huge mistake?" moments.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 15:07
|
|
|
For the fullest context, I used to have access to great little shop that had good hours and put the roast date right on the bag of coffee alongside the name and country of origin. But I moved, and the nearest roaster has not great hours that seem to be tentative, but only in such a way as I find out after the 40 minute drive that they put a sign on the door saying they closed early. Plus, the roast date is "we totally promise these beans aren't more than a week and a half past the roast date" on coffees with creative names that sometimes tell me where they're from. So here I am. I don't want to commit to something in the $400+ range just to find that I don't think it's worth the hassle, but I don't want to go so cheap that I'm discouraged because the learning curve is too steep. As such, I'm trying to split the difference as well as I can. My wife and I have policy of sorts when we want to try a new thing that we try and pick a good middle of the road value option. If it doesn't take, we didn't put ourselves out too badly, and if it's so wildly useful that we wear it out, we upgrade.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 18:39
|
|
|
Glockamole posted:For the fullest context, I used to have access to great little shop that had good hours and put the roast date right on the bag of coffee alongside the name and country of origin. But I moved, and the nearest roaster has not great hours that seem to be tentative, but only in such a way as I find out after the 40 minute drive that they put a sign on the door saying they closed early. Plus, the roast date is "we totally promise these beans aren't more than a week and a half past the roast date" on coffees with creative names that sometimes tell me where they're from. So here I am. I don't want to commit to something in the $400+ range just to find that I don't think it's worth the hassle, but I don't want to go so cheap that I'm discouraged because the learning curve is too steep. As such, I'm trying to split the difference as well as I can. My wife and I have policy of sorts when we want to try a new thing that we try and pick a good middle of the road value option. If it doesn't take, we didn't put ourselves out too badly, and if it's so wildly useful that we wear it out, we upgrade. Why is ordering online not an option? Like 90% of us in the thread order online, and I usually get bags 2-4 days after roast date. Most roasters will wait until after roast day to ship if you order too early too. And there’s plenty of non-onyx roasters who have reasonable prices and free/low cost shipping if you order enough at once or subscribe.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 21:08
|
|
|
One of the sample roasters would treat you well, sr800, kaffelogic etc. They'll pay for themselves, especially if you're used to paying 3rd wave prices for two. Hell, I just ordered some yirga cheffe from Sweet Maria's for $8.45/lb
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 21:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 17:49 |
|
|
Pilfered Pallbearers posted:Why is ordering online not an option? Like 90% of us in the thread order online, and I usually get bags 2-4 days after roast date. Probably the biggest hindrance to online ordering is that for some reason it didn't even occur to me as an option. I do like the idea of buying green coffee in bulk and just having access to the freshest possible coffee whenever I want, though. But truth be told, you just gave me another solid option to consider.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 21:52
|
|