|
Darth Walrus posted:Apart from all that, what the hell does 'there's no civilian population to hide in' mean? Being generous, they presumably meant because the civilians will have starved to death, or because the IDF won't distinguish.
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 02:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 07:34 |
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:Apart from all that, what the hell does 'there's no civilian population to hide in' mean? all residents are terrorists of course!
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 02:14
|
|
|
Shageletic posted:Uh I personally would have stopped myself from posting gassing as a way to end the conflict. By no means am I endorsing. Just posting the obviousness of the situation they’re in under the assumption bibi isn’t stopping. Just like it was obvious that hospitals were on the hit list. They have a literal ocean to pump in if they want. They can fly drones through to inspect. It’s not the 70s anymore
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 02:14
|
|
|
.
mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Nov 5, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 02:16
|
|
|
Mid-Life Crisis posted:By no means am I endorsing. Just posting the obviousness of the situation they’re in under the assumption bibi isn’t stopping. Just like it was obvious that hospitals were on the hit list. They have a literal ocean to pump in if they want. They can fly drones through to inspect. It’s not the 70s anymore Gonna be real here, in context of your past and present clearly-expressed lack of understanding of the situation in Gaza, this just seems like creepy fantasising on your part. Why the hell would you kramer into this thread with this nonsense?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 02:25
|
|
|
Mid-Life Crisis posted:It’s not the 70s anymore I'd argue that, if we've learned anything from Syria, Ukraine, Lebanon, it's that we absolutely are in the 70's as far as military effectiveness goes. The only real concrete game-changer is drones. Hell maybe even the 50's. Bullying a two-war deteriorated Iraq & joining the bombing katamari in Libya turned out to be a mirage. Interesting video of Hamas releasing the hostages: https://twitter.com/Seamus_Malek/status/1716583291695104202 One of them turns around to shake a Hamas soldier's hand before leaving; most likely a stunt (in which case they clearly want to look good with regards to caring for the hostages) otherwise genuine (hopefully emblematic of the other hostage cases). Good news either way. Going back to my points: all of them culminate to explain this move: https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1716600437422321839?s=20 US government is full of true-believer freaks (Biden's been hardline on this before he was even a national politician), but they're at least competent enough to recognize Israel has no idea what it's doing. And they don't want to lose a third war in one term over a shrug. Especially one that solidifies the US as a terrorist nation to the entire region for another decade+. Honestly, if they weren't a combination of excessively violently dogmatic, and blinded by rage & panic, they probably would have allowed the Rafah supplies to enter unmolested from the start & avoided bombing South Gaza. Get a promise from Egypt that they wont drive the supplies to the north, people would have naturally filtered southward towards aid & away from bombs. Even if the trucks were unloaded into other trucks & ferried north, that would still be a significant hitch in life for the north. Bit late for that now. Palestinians understand that nowhere is "safe" anymore.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 02:27
|
|
|
Mid-Life Crisis posted:By no means am I endorsing. Just posting the obviousness of the situation they’re in under the assumption bibi isn’t stopping. Just like it was obvious that hospitals were on the hit list. They have a literal ocean to pump in if they want. They can fly drones through to inspect. It’s not the 70s anymore It's absolutely not an obvious thing and incredibly weird and off-putting thing to post. And none of us were posting anything close to that. You just came in to post about sealing up tunnels and gassing people while saying there is no civilian population and it honestly feels like you're just posting your hosed up fantasies.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 02:33
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Bullying a two-war deteriorated Iraq
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 02:35
|
|
|
NovemberMike posted:I've been looking at photos and it just seems like a Qassam rocket. Okay, but the weapon that hit the courtyard also did extreme damage over a thirty meter radius and the blue barrier that's maybe five yards away from that crater doesn't have a scratch on it If you are fixating on the hole you're missing the point. A tiny rocket doesn't have that much explosive force. Cars don't explode in chain reactions like in the movies. You would need an incredible amount of force and pressure to do what was done in that courtyard, there's crushed and flipped cars five meters from the crater. Explain how these vehicles were destroyed over such a wide area if it was such a low yield explosive? If it was a Qassam, why isn't the blue barrier in your picture completely obliterated? Edit: Let's take a look at the other photo you linked quote:This is the crater from the hospital. The car in the background is easily twice the distance of the blue barrier in the Qassam crater photo and it is completely destroyed. The headlights have been blown out, all the glass has been blown out, and the car was crushed by explosive force, from above, as evidenced by the bowed roof. Do you really think a Qassam did that? It looks like whatever created the crater may have blown up before it landed, and the crater is incidental. Like an air burst munition would have, perhaps? Compare these photos:  https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1714525590873575600/photo/1I mean, really? edit: Okay, here's a new theory. I'm going to throw you a bone. What if your dinky little crater is the Qassam that Israel knocked out of the sky, and the huge destructive force was an air burst Israeli munition. Why not both? Engorged Pedipalps fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Oct 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 02:41
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:Gonna be real here, in context of your past and present clearly-expressed lack of understanding of the situation in Gaza, this just seems like creepy fantasising on your part. Why the hell would you kramer into this thread with this nonsense? Pointing out the dwindling options IDF has to achieve their goal of eradicating Hamas who has an extensive tunnel network is creepy fantasizing? What do you expect them to do otherwise?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 02:50
|
|
|
They can't actually eradicate Hamas; you're not describing an achievable goal. Even were they somehow to dismantle the organization, they'd still be running a concentration camp with millions of inmates and there'd be another Hamas. The resistance will only end is once the genocide is complete, or if Israel reverted course and made efforts to end the occupation. I'm pretty sure even Netanyahu understands that. No one stands to gain anything from a ground invasion other than whatever political capital Bibi thinks he can eke out.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 02:59
|
|
|
Mid-Life Crisis posted:Pointing out the dwindling options IDF has to achieve their goal of eradicating Hamas who has an extensive tunnel network is creepy fantasizing? What do you expect them to do otherwise? Where are the doctors supposed to move their operation to, and how?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 03:14
|
|
|
What is likely to happen to the Palestinians even if Israel fails in their mission? The IDF failing seems like its probably a good thing regardless, but I fear no matter the outcome, Palestinians will still only know suffering going forward after this current conflict is over.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 03:24
|
|
|
Engorged Pedipalps posted:edit: Okay, here's a new theory. I'm going to throw you a bone. What if your dinky little crater is the Qassam that Israel knocked out of the sky, and the huge destructive force was an air burst Israeli munition. Why not both? That could possibly be it. The qassam could have even hit before or after. My main problem is that no Israeli munition makes any sense here. A regular JDAM leaves a crater you can fit one of those cars in comfortably. An airburst would be sending heavy shrapnel into the buildings around there. A DIME is designed to have a super small area where it effectively kills people so mass casualties don't make sense there. Artillery is too small for that much damage and would leave a bigger crater. That's not even mentioning that there aren't really other reports of the IDF using weird or fancy bombs. They're just going around dropping bombs that explode on contact because they want to mess up tunnels if they're there. There's also no way for Israel to hide this, if they drop a bomb there should be forensic evidence. You can blame the lack of it on Hamas being incompetent but that only gets you so far.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 03:26
|
|
|
Edit: Sorry for keeping this going y'all Engorged Pedipalps fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Oct 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 03:36
|
|
|
This hospital ran out of fuel for its generators tonight. Maybe the IDF plan to level them to mask as much of their war crimes as possible? https://twitter.com/muslimthoughtz1/status/1716583785691570479 fuctifino fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Oct 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 03:52
|
|
|
fuctifino posted:The hospitals ran out of fuel for their generators tonight. Maybe the IDF plan to level them to mask as much of their war crimes as possible? meanwhile mother fuckers aren't done litigating Israel bombing that hospital. gently caress that and gently caress this! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 03:55
|
|
|
Is there a good resource I can share with someone that will accurately depict what life has been like for Palestinians? Ideally it would cover recent times too. My political memory is garbage and it’s a shame since my dad worked with conflict resolution in the Middle East and I’ve grown up around these discussions. I’ve been having conversations with someone close to me who seems to give Israel the benefit of the doubt a little too much when the stories I’ve heard all my life have sounded terrifying. They seem to think the 2005 end of military occupation of the Gaza Strip meant that life has been relatively ok there since. I’d love something I can share that gives a good overview but won’t be so dense with information that it becomes overwhelming
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 04:07
|
|
|
Snowy posted:Is there a good resource I can share with someone that will accurately depict what life has been like for Palestinians? Ideally it would cover recent times too. There's alot I could post, but here's an interview about living as a Palestinian Israeli in Israel, and what's it like to live as a second class citizen. https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/what-the-war-means-for-palestinians-inside-israel And here's a video about going back to Hebron to Palestine as an American journalist and seeing what happened to her father's neighborhood https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEdGcej-6D0 e: it can be overwhelming, so this is just dipping your toe into the context. Gaza is a thousand times worse, so starting from here will give you the beginning of a sense of how things work for Palestinians anywhere under Israeli occupation.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 04:17
|
|
|
Shageletic posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEdGcej-6D0 Can confirm this is a good starting point. Be prepared for some pretty traumatic stuff, Gaza is horrible and inhumane, but the West Bank is also terrible in different ways. The way Palestinians are treated is horrible, and Israel is an evil place for willingly doing this.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 04:53
|
|
|
fuctifino posted:This hospital ran out of fuel for its generators tonight. Maybe the IDF plan to level them to mask as much of their war crimes as possible? Every male family member of those people and babies who die will join Hamas.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 05:03
|
|
|
Snowy posted:Is there a good resource I can share with someone that will accurately depict what life has been like for Palestinians? Ideally it would cover recent times too. occupation 101 is pretty good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxpUYOH1DG8
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 06:40
|
|
|
mannerup posted:this is an existential issue because Netanyahu is aware he's politically a dead man walking once this war either ends, fades into the background or goes poorly; there is no plausible scenario in my opinion where he comes out of this unscathed (with the obvious disclaimer that Netanyahu has been declared politically dead countless times before) Even if it forces Bibi out in the short term, it's hard for me to see a scenario where he stays gone for long. There's just no one who can hold a coalition together like he can these days. Sure, maybe in a few months Likud will lose a handful of seats and Gantz will become Prime Minister. But the Knesset is still going to lean right-wing, and Gantz leans right too, and current polling suggests Likud would still be a mid-sized party if elections were held tomorrow. So Gantz will try to put together a right-wing coalition, but a right-wing coalition without Likud won't be very stable. I give it 18 months tops before Prime Minister Gantz is so sick of dealing with the fringe parties that cutting a deal with Netanyahu and bringing Likud into the coalition starts to sound pretty good. And once he starts playing nice with Likud, he's toast. He's learned nothing from his past dealings with Netanyahu, who'll eat him alive at the first opportunity. It's one thing for Netanyahu to be ousted. But for that ousting to be anything more than a short-term event, someone else has to be up to the task of holding together a stable and functional government for more than a few months. I don't think there's a whole lot of people up to that task these days in Israeli politics, especially since Netanyahu is quite effective at prying holes in coalitions he's not part of. And even if Bibi is ousted, I don't think that's coming with a meaningful course change for Israel. The same polls that say Netanyahu is going to lose out to Gantz also say that a supermajority of Israelis support a ground invasion of Gaza, and that an even larger supermajority wants to take military action against Lebanon (with a slight majority calling for it to be a "large-scale" military action).
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 07:26
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:I don't understand how the hospital bombing is still in dispute, between the Israel tweet taking credit for the bombing, and the fake evidence that IDF has presented, it seems pretty clear cut? That's exactly what Israel wants. It's "did Hamas beheaded infants or not???" debate all over again, both media and random nerds on internet will talk about it ad nauseam while Cahal commits 2137 other war crimes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 07:44
|
|
|
Mid-Life Crisis posted:There’s no civilian population to hide in. No jungle to hide in. And no adjacent warring army. A fixed, small footprint to occupy. It keeps being said that ground invasion is inevitable failure , but realistically in this specific situation all they have to do is trace the tunnels and methodically plug up all the vents then switch to gas, irony notwithstanding. There’s an urban warfare podcast about the tunnels that I didn’t listen to through the end because the specialist in tunnel warfare and host seemed a bit too enthusiastic. Anyway, gas was out of the question according to them. For political reasons. So the idf came up with fun alternatives. The drilling into the tunnels and pumping it full of seawater from the Mediterranean is a real thing. There is the cement option, the 2 component explosive foam one and the thermobaric one, which is all about using up all oxygen so people can’t breath like, I don’t know.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 08:42
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:US government is full of true-believer freaks (Biden's been hardline on this before he was even a national politician), but they're at least competent enough to recognize Israel has no idea what it's doing. And they don't want to lose a third war in one term over a shrug. Especially one that solidifies the US as a terrorist nation to the entire region for another decade+. What are the other two wars that the US is in? I agree that they don't think highly of Israel's competence right now, I have no idea what two wars the US has been in, much less lost, in the past few years.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 09:00
|
|
|
Kchama posted:What are the other two wars that the US is in? I agree that they don't think highly of Israel's competence right now, I have no idea what two wars the US has been in, much less lost, in the past few years. I would assume Afghanistan for one, don't really know the second.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 09:04
|
|
|
Kchama posted:What are the other two wars that the US is in? I agree that they don't think highly of Israel's competence right now, I have no idea what two wars the US has been in, much less lost, in the past few years. The second one happens to be the one most controversial on the forums, and also probably shouldn't contaminate this thread. Will just say that I'm bearish on US's side, even before our attention splintered. Handshake seems to be taking off on social media; if it was intentional it was very PR savvy. Feuding arguments are "Hamas isn't inherently violent bloodthirsty psychopaths" vs. "Her husband is still a prisoner this is all faked". Considering Shalit I'm inclined to believe they were treated fine, but the shake was a stunt. E: Kchama posted:Eh, I guess. I'm not sure anyone would count Israel and Gaza as a US war to begin with, though. It's not one right now, but we're funneling more and more equipment into the region, floating carriers by Gaza, and letting Hezbollah blow up our bases. We're definitely on the edge, and the ground invasion is liable to push us over. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Oct 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 09:09
|
|
|
Josef bugman posted:I would assume Afghanistan for one, don't really know the second. Eh, I guess. I'm not sure anyone would count Israel and Gaza as a US war to begin with, though. Neurolimal posted:The second one happens to be the one most controversial on the forums, and also probably shouldn't contaminate this thread. Will just say that I'm bearish on US's side, even before our attention splintered. Yeah I don't buy that the public believes that I/P and U/R are American wars for one second. Afghanistan, sure, even if that was really lost before Biden's term he actually was the only one willing to actually withdraw. But those two? I don't buy it. Kchama fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Oct 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 09:11
|
|
|
Obama came out with a quite measured public statement on the situation along with some references for additional content. https://x.com/BarackObama/status/1716524464643375138?s=20
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 09:13
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:The second one happens to be the one most controversial on the forums, and also probably shouldn't contaminate this thread. Will just say that I'm bearish on US's side, even before our attention splintered.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 09:14
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:
That's the harshest criticism of Israel I can remember seeing the NYT ever publish.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 09:20
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:I don't understand how the hospital bombing is still in dispute, between the Israel tweet taking credit for the bombing, and the fake evidence that IDF has presented, it seems pretty clear cut? Neurolimal posted:The second one happens to be the one most controversial on the forums, and also probably shouldn't contaminate this thread. Will just say that I'm bearish on US's side, even before our attention splintered. CSM fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Oct 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 09:32
|
|
|
mrfart posted:There’s an urban warfare podcast about the tunnels that I didn’t listen to through the end because the specialist in tunnel warfare and host seemed a bit too enthusiastic. If blowing up hospitals and trail of tears 2023 edition didn’t make it clear that political motivations are not high on the list I’m not sure what else would be a sign. Igniting fires to consume oxygen is effectively the same thing. I digress. It’s about to get ugly. It’s real and it’s coming. The US’s failure in their foreign wars (slaughters) has been the rules of engagement. It was taken complete advantage of and fundamentally made victory as they wanted it impossible. Some would say that this is evidence that we shouldn’t have been in those wars if that was the case in the first place, which I would agree to. However, when the US state department says Israel has no achievable objectives- that’s under the assumption they don’t shoot everything that moves on sight. Don’t go scorched earth on whatever is in the tunnels and make the land uninhabitable for a century. Israel’s actions are showing they are keen to do exactly that. It’s viewed as existential threat to them. Plus Obama made it clear that Hamas is in the wrong, not that they deserve eternal forgiveness because of what’s happened to them. Any bleeding heart liberals who was on the fence with him I’m sure are now going through the final dissonance and swearing him off for the neocon he actually always has been.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 10:10
|
|
|
CSM posted:Does this super secret war exist only in your head, or are you talking about the Ukraine war? Which is a war in which the US isn't an actual participant, and which has been a disaster for the side the US opposes. It’s just been peachy for the Ukrainians, the background actors.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 10:17
|
|
|
mrfart posted:There’s an urban warfare podcast about the tunnels that I didn’t listen to through the end because the specialist in tunnel warfare and host seemed a bit too enthusiastic. Are all these ideas - even the gas one - not going to take a little bit of setup time? How are you planning to setup something to pump sea/cement into these tunnels while you are getting RPG's lobbed at you? Technically I'm sure it would work, but if you are at the point where you have enough security where you have such control over the tunnels you can gently caress around for a while setting up a bunch of equipment, they've already won at that point, no?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 11:04
|
|
|
fatelvis posted:Are all these ideas - even the gas one - not going to take a little bit of setup time? How are you planning to setup something to pump sea/cement into these tunnels while you are getting RPG's lobbed at you? Technically I'm sure it would work, but if you are at the point where you have enough security where you have such control over the tunnels you can gently caress around for a while setting up a bunch of equipment, they've already won at that point, no? Giving up their position is going to net them one chance then seal their fate. They have nowhere to retreat but into the death traps
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 11:34
|
|
|
NovemberMike posted:Artillery is too small for that much damage and would leave a bigger crater.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 12:02
|
|
|
Mid-Life Crisis posted:Giving up their position is going to net them one chance then seal their fate. They have nowhere to retreat but into the death traps Where are the doctors supposed to move their operation to, and how?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 12:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 07:34 |
|
|
Randalor posted:Where are the doctors supposed to move their operation to, and how? Why do you keep posting this reply to unrelated posts?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 12:26
|
|
