|
MuddyFunster posted:I wonder how many times the guy who plays Morn walked across the background of a scene as just some Starfleet guy or something. I feel like that'd be a thing.) In Who Mourns for Morn, he does play a Starfleet officer - I’m pretty sure he’s the guy who goes to sit in Morn’s empty chair and gets told off by Bashir.
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 01:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 07:14 |
|
|
There's this one security officer who is in tons of Voyager episodes but I don't think ever gets any lines. It's this guy- https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Tarik_Ergin
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 01:03
|
|
|
Speaking of Morn, I watched Sanctuary yesterday and the scene at the start when the guy's playing the DS9 theme has this star fleet woman cuddling up to Morn and it was so funny. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVh5qM0OvoM&t=55s
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 01:31
|
|
|
Zaroff posted:In Who Mourns for Morn, he does play a Starfleet officer - I’m pretty sure he’s the guy who goes to sit in Morn’s empty chair and gets told off by Bashir. It's such a good joke too. "Who the gently caress do you think you are, get outta here scrub!"
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 01:36
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:There's this one security officer who is in tons of Voyager episodes but I don't think ever gets any lines. Crewman Ayala!
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 01:40
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:Crewman Ayala! The Lt. Jae of Voyager.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 01:42
|
|
|
I think he does actually have a line at one point but like ensign gates over on TNG they're dubbed by a different person so he wouldn't change to a category where they have to give him a payrise.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 01:47
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:It was also absurdly over budget which is why they cut the budget before WoK The budget wasn't just cut, The Wrath of Khan was quite literally produced by Paramount's television division. Paramount was ready to scrub a theatrical release and sell it to ABC as a movie-of-the-week if the executives didn't like the footage they were seeing (which is why there are alternate takes of some scenes in the version that aired on ABC, like Kirk and Saavik in the turbolift, because Meyer had to frame them for a 4:3 ratio). Timby fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Oct 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 02:44
|
|
|
I was thinking about the "Kirk never gets punished" problem and how it actually applies to a lot of what Starfleet does. The crux seems to be that captains are usually right about whatever nonsense they decided to enact unilaterally. The final episode of TOS kind of drives this home. Everyone on the ship has to trust this guy with their lives and so his judgment has to be perfect at almost all times. This is the standard that Starfleet sets and expects to be enforced, both from the top but more importantly from the crew of a ship who absolutely will overthrow a tyrant or incompetent or imposter. The Prime Directive, direct interference in Federation member planet politics, dealing with situations at the Neutral Zone, all of these things and others have rigid guidelines that are typically ignored when the plot requires it. Taken as a whole, it really does make the captains seem beyond exceptional, but that's the only way this system can function. It also seems to be why it's portrayed as such a deep betrayal when a captain goes rogue for the wrong reasons. As long as you can exonerate your instinct, you're good, but if you're just power hungry or have lost perspective, the other captains will rain hell on you. It almost feels like "rule by philosopher kings" from Plato's Republic, but it's also (supposed to be) a genuine meritocracy, so anyone with the right amount of gumption can become a captain be they white, black, Klingon, or female.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 02:46
|
|
|
It's a combination of three elements of TOS worldbuilding of: a) space is known to be full of extraordinary situations and out of context problems that no preexisting protocol could take into account b) A Starship has an extraordinary amount of power that can literally change the course of entire civilians and decide life or death for billions and c) they're often far beyond immediate communication reach or support range of the Federation. The last in particular is an element that was kinda lost a lot later on but is really critical to understanding the attitude with which Star Trek treats their captains. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Oct 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 02:55
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:It's a combination of three elements of TOS worldbuilding of: I think it's also why the admirals are usually depicted as evil. They're not at the front lines, they don't know the full context, and they haven't been having to make decisions that affect people they're directly responsible for. The ships, captains, and crews are abstracts for them at that level. It reminds me a lot of that conflicts you see in schools as great teachers go on to become principals and other admins and their values seem to change overnight. I'm head of department right now at my school and I definitely approach crises and conflicts differently than when I just had to think about my classroom.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 04:02
|
|
|
I know it's bad, but I love that final space battle in Insurrection, including the stupid joystick thing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 04:29
|
|
|
Watched Voyager "Fury" to keep pace with Greatest Gen and I was a little disappointed they didn't call out the "See anyone you know?" "Only you." exchange between Old Kes and Neelix, because I thought that was a pretty good couplet.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 05:04
|
|
|
FISHMANPET posted:I know it's bad, but I love that final space battle in Insurrection, including the stupid joystick thing. It's probably the best space battle of the TNG movies (not that that's a high bar to clear, it's either that or Nemesis, and Nemesis loses because the Scimitar is the turbo-gunned super-duper Admiral Hyperriker starship that some dipshit kid comes up with on the playground to beat yours). For being the most-expensive Trek movie (prior to 2009), Insurrection looks very weirdly cheap, and I think that's because of the switch in VFX vendor from ILM to Blue Sky Digital.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 05:12
|
|
|
Also apparently they just spent a heap of money on the town set, which was built on location... Not sure I would say the best use of money to be honest.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 06:09
|
|
|
FISHMANPET posted:I know it's bad, but I love that final space battle in Insurrection, including the stupid joystick thing. Insurrection is the one Trek movie you'll never ever convince me is actually bad. You might be right, but I do not give a goddamn poo poo. I'm going to keep liking it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 06:11
|
|
|
Riker had been advocating for years to grab a joystick in Star Trek and he wasn't going to pass up the opportunity.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 06:15
|
|
|
dr_rat posted:Also apparently they just spent a heap of money on the town set, which was built on location... Not sure I would say the best use of money to be honest. Yeah, that was Frakes' call, he insisted on building the Ba'ku village on-location, including having a fully functioning plumbing system. When re-shoots were ordered by Sherry Lansing following some dodgy test screenings, it was almost entirely for the on-location stuff. Which meant they had to re-build the village all over again. nine-gear crow posted:Insurrection is the one Trek movie you'll never ever convince me is actually bad. You might be right, but I do not give a goddamn poo poo. I'm going to keep liking it. I don't dislike it, but I don't like it, either. It's just kind of there for me. Frakes had definitely matured as a director, and it has some great scenes (Geordi's sunrise), and the casting is superb, but it's ultimately a victim of Patrick Stewart having no grasp whatsoever of who Picard was / is as a character, since he had to approve every single story and script draft.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 06:31
|
|
|
Timby posted:For being the most-expensive Trek movie (prior to 2009), Insurrection looks very weirdly cheap, and I think that's because of the switch in VFX vendor from ILM to Blue Sky Digital. So, are the ship bits all CG or are there still models used? I was wondering, they do have a very weird look to them, especially when the collector unfurls its big... Sail thingies and it's all grainy. There's a few nice shots in there, mind. Them chucking the warp core out was a cool moment. There's a lot of cool moments, they didn't really coalesce for me though. On reflection, it's decently watchable if nothing else, certainly not the crushingly boring abomination I'd pegged it as back in the day.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 06:32
|
|
|
MuddyFunster posted:So, are the ship bits all CG or are there still models used? I was wondering, they do have a very weird look to them, especially when the collector unfurls its big... Sail thingies and it's all grainy. There's a few nice shots in there, mind. If memory serves, Insurrection was the first Trek movie that was 100 percent CGI with the ship stuff. Nemesis was almost 100 percent CGI, but Digital Domain did build a scale model of the Enterprise-E's saucer for the collision with the Scimitar. Timby fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Oct 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 06:35
|
|
|
It's not the first time it's been mentioned in this thread but if you have Insurrection on DVD or have some other way of watching it with the commentary tracks, you owe it to yourself to listen to the Frakes and Sirtis track. They hit the wine early and don't stop, and it's absolutely amazing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 06:49
|
|
|
Lemniscate Blue posted:It's not the first time it's been mentioned in this thread but if you have Insurrection on DVD or have some other way of watching it with the commentary tracks, you owe it to yourself to listen to the Frakes and Sirtis track. They hit the wine early and don't stop, and it's absolutely amazing. Seconding this, they're doing MST3K on the level of Joel and the bots
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 06:53
|
|
|
Lemniscate Blue posted:It's not the first time it's been mentioned in this thread but if you have Insurrection on DVD or have some other way of watching it with the commentary tracks, you owe it to yourself to listen to the Frakes and Sirtis track. They hit the wine early and don't stop, and it's absolutely amazing. I believe it's exclusive to the Blu-ray and UHD releases.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 06:55
|
|
|
Timby posted:I believe it's exclusive to the Blu-ray and UHD releases. Or you can stream the movie and open YouTube in another tab https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTZIknM6coM
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 07:00
|
|
|
Timby posted:If memory serves, Insurrection was the first Trek movie that was 100 percent CGI with the ship stuff. Nemesis was almost 100 percent CGI, but Digital Domain did build a scale model of the Enterprise-E's saucer for the collision with the Scimitar. Nah, I think Insurrection was still physical models. Nemesis was definitely 100% CG, but in Insurrection you can still clearly tell between the CG shots and the physical models. The ship CG in Insurrection is still REALLY dodgy, like the fight between the shuttle and the scout ship. That was CG, but the Enterprise and the Son'a capital ships still looked like they were all models.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 07:00
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:Nah, I think Insurrection was still physical models. Nemesis was definitely 100% CG, but in Insurrection you can still clearly tell between the CG shots and the physical models. The ship CG in Insurrection is still REALLY dodgy, like the fight between the shuttle and the scout ship. That was CG, but the Enterprise and the Son'a capital ships still looked like they were all models. SBS and Blue Sky scanned the model of the E that ILM built for First Contact to use as the texture map for their model, but it's all CG. I have the Cinefex issue covering it in a box in my closet, I'll find the relevant passage(s). Edit: And as I said, Nemesis wasn't 100 percent CG. Digital Domain built a giant loving model (not as big as the one ILM built of the Enterprise-D saucer for the Generations crash, but still big) for animating the ramming scene with the Scimitar. Timby fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Oct 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 07:02
|
|
|
Kesper North posted:Or you can stream the movie and open YouTube in another tab that's first contact not insurrection
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 07:05
|
|
|
Arivia posted:that's first contact not insurrection my bad apparently i'm very tired
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 07:40
|
|
|
Phy posted:Was Defiant the first Trek ship to really indulge in the swoopy dynamic WWII Fighter Plane visual vocabulary? Because right choice in that specific case to sell what a weirdo it is, imo, but after that having your immense multi-deck ships scoot around like fighters is a very hard toy to put back in the box
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 07:52
|
|
|
Two Voyager minor characters I want to shout out to: The crew member who really likes working out and mentions it every time he shows up The con artist who impersonated Tuvok but got really into it because he thought Tuvok was really cool
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 08:02
|
|
|
Going back to planetary shields, there are a few references to them in TOS, but the one that jumped out at me was in "Whom Gods Destroy". It seems to be explicitly planet-wide because there are weak spots at various points along the continents that they try to blast through but cannot. There's an aside in the episode about how they could destroy it, but the firepower necessary would devastate the planet and their whole goal was to rescue Kirk and the other hostages. Now, Memory Alpha calls this a "force field" and not a "shield", but I don't really think that matters as far as what we're discussing. It's established that there's a science thing that makes an invisible but impenetrable barrier and they have the tech to implement on a planetary scale.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 09:23
|
|
|
Atlas Hugged posted:I think it's also why the admirals are usually depicted as evil. They're not at the front lines, they don't know the full context, and they haven't been having to make decisions that affect people they're directly responsible for. The ships, captains, and crews are abstracts for them at that level. Well, that's the Watsonian explanation, the Doylist one is just that most of the time the only reason to bring an admiral into the plot is to obstruct and cause problems. If an Admiral is fine and dandy then they don't need to be in the episode.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 11:18
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:Well, that's the Watsonian explanation, the Doylist one is just that most of the time the only reason to bring an admiral into the plot is to obstruct and cause problems. If an Admiral is fine and dandy then they don't need to be in the episode. This explanation also applies 1-1 for Keiko
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 11:19
|
|
|
Particularly since Rosalind Chao was successful and busy enough an actress that they couldn't easily just throw her in brief background scenes with Miles in other episodes just for the sake of married life ambience.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Oct 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 11:26
|
|
|
Der Kyhe posted:The switch to jiggly ships shooting bolts at each other was a mistake. The constitution and galaxy et al. are heavy cruisers and battleships, they should have a feel of mass and inertia, and they should fire those huge gently caress you death rays and arrays of torpedoes/missiles, not some "piu piu piu" anti air guns and then turn on a dime and run away. Preach it! Trek is the space navy, not the space air force
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 12:08
|
|
|
I thought it was a wagon train.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 12:38
|
|
|
McSpanky posted:Preach it! Trek is the space navy, not the space air force A pre-WW2 space navy, specifically. An era where battleships ruled before carriers took over. Quite often an 1808 space navy. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Oct 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 12:42
|
|
|
Should of gone with a 900AD space navy. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 12:45
|
|
|
dr_rat posted:Should of gone with a 900AD space navy. Klingons are a thing, you know.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 13:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 07:14 |
|
|
A.o.D. posted:Klingons are a thing, you know. I feel the federation could do it better.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 13:17
|
|