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edogawa rando posted:A pair of white people acting like it's somehow wrong and confusing that people of colour are now taking offence to a white person putting on an accent to play a person of colour. The part that bothers me most is saying "what used to be inoffensive". Nah, y'all knew it was loving offensive. The original script for Apu's first appearance said the convenience story clerk should not be Indian. This isn't something that got invented in the 2010s; you knew it was lovely back then too and did it anyway.
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Oct 23, 2023 03:15
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PostNouveau posted:The part that bothers me most is saying "what used to be inoffensive". Nah, y'all knew it was loving offensive. The original script for Apu's first appearance said the convenience story clerk should not be Indian. This isn't something that got invented in the 2010s; you knew it was lovely back then too and did it anyway. What really pisses me off is that it comes off like a bunch of whiteys implying to us uppity minorities that perhaps we shouldn't be so quick to get pissed at poo poo that is offensive to us, as if we've taken something sacrosanct from them. The loving paternalistic tone, the framed photo of Apu, the "maybe this just isn't the time" bullshit that moderates do, the "what are we supposed to dooooOOOoooOOOOoooooOOOOoooo?" poo poo - here's a hint Al Jean, you gently caress, stop doing the poo poo minorities are getting pissed at.
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Oct 23, 2023 03:24
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https://twitter.com/thatretro/status/1716257406584275207?s=46&t=m6fGiglUP1-mz5m0sRqpiw
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Oct 23, 2023 03:49
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e: beating a dead horse
Mantis42 fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Oct 23, 2023 |
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Oct 23, 2023 03:54
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When Apu started out, the show was very much not trying to not offend, although an indian convenience store cashier was too old hack to even be funny from a transgressive angle. As time went on, and the curtains closed on the ability of the show to expand Springfield or introduce any new characters, Apu became an important regular character and a valued device for whenever the show wanted a store owner (to the point that everybody gets their groceries at the gas station). And I don't think the show ever really tried to tone down Apu's stereotypes or potential offensiveness (a couple later additions probably make things worse), but I think the writers were so used to Apu being a thing that they forgot that he was entirely built on an offensive joke, so they got blindsighted when complaints got high-profile.
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Oct 23, 2023 06:07
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I've said it before, if the show had ended at a reasonable time, Apu would be considered a step in the right direction at least. But they dragged it out way too long.edogawa rando posted:What really pisses me off is that it comes off like a bunch of whiteys implying to us uppity minorities that perhaps we shouldn't be so quick to get pissed at poo poo that is offensive to us, as if we've taken something sacrosanct from them. The loving paternalistic tone, the framed photo of Apu, the "maybe this just isn't the time" bullshit that moderates do, the "what are we supposed to dooooOOOoooOOOOoooooOOOOoooo?" poo poo - here's a hint Al Jean, you gently caress, stop doing the poo poo minorities are getting pissed at. Ain't no one gets pissy like wealthy white liberals not getting their gratitude fix from nonwhites.
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Oct 23, 2023 06:54
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Mantis42 posted:e: beating a dead horse Kavner's not dead yet though
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Oct 23, 2023 10:09
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emgeejay posted:https://twitter.com/thatretro/status/1716257406584275207?s=46&t=m6fGiglUP1-mz5m0sRqpiw hooooolyyyy gently caress
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Oct 23, 2023 10:13
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I say with no joy that AI might be better.
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Oct 23, 2023 14:30
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emgeejay posted:https://twitter.com/thatretro/status/1716257406584275207?s=46&t=m6fGiglUP1-mz5m0sRqpiw A lot of the newer clips usually give me a mostly "...What the hell?" kind of feeling, but every new clip I watch where Julie Kavner talks genuinely make me sad. Just....stop. Stop and retire already. Das Boo posted:I say with no joy that AI might be better. AI honestly would be better. A different voice actor who can get in the ballpark would be better. So, so many things would be better, because what we have right now is just objectively not good. IBroughttheFunk fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Oct 23, 2023 |
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Oct 23, 2023 17:07
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edogawa rando posted:Sorry, I just saw red there. That clip just really pushed my buttons today. Naah, its justified.
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Oct 23, 2023 17:54
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emgeejay posted:https://twitter.com/thatretro/status/1716257406584275207?s=46&t=m6fGiglUP1-mz5m0sRqpiw good lord
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Oct 23, 2023 19:45
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Cocaine Bear posted:What killede me was seasons like 13-15 where every episode had at least 2 lengthy songs that were independent of what little plot remained. Just filling time and hoping the writers would get some residuals or whatever. Are we for or against writers getting more residuals? I say if that’s what gets them paid, so be it.
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Oct 23, 2023 19:49
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I've said it before, if the show had ended at a reasonable time, Apu would be considered a step in the right direction at least. But they dragged it out way too long. Apu evolved several times as the writing staff kept turning over, depending on what he was being used for: * Generic Indian convenience store clerk (sitcom background character) * Enthusiastically US-integrated capitalist / grifter (cynical satire) * Brilliant academic forced to start from the bottom in America and nearly deported (satire, but more consciously progressive) * Arranged marriage! Octuplets! (wacky bullshit) The people who say "Apu was never a stereotype" will point to examples and details from phase 3 without realizing they're somewhat a subversion of, and response to, the character's original problematic incarnations. There probably was a thoughtful, humorous way to course-correct Apu for yet another cohort of modern audiences, but no way would Al Jean's writing staff ever find it.
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Oct 23, 2023 20:03
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Whatever happened to Apus brother?
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Oct 24, 2023 06:22
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Non Compos Mentis posted:Whatever happened to Apus brother? He was in like 50% of season 26 and everyone got sick of him until they brought him back for a two parter focusing on his marital problems in season 34.
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Oct 24, 2023 06:36
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Halisnacks posted:Are we for or against writers getting more residuals? I say if that’s what gets them paid, so be it. It's good that writers get paid. The constant barrage of terrible, terrible songs made the show worse.
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Oct 24, 2023 07:01
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That's starting to explain a lot about other cartoons that have more and more questionable musical numbers in later seasons. Kinda funny that Phineas and Ferb actually had a musical number in every episode by Disney's request after Gitchie Gitchie Goo. This is probably one of those rare cases of an executive mandate that turned out to be a ridiculously good idea.
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Oct 24, 2023 07:10
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:It's in the video description: Season 14 - Episode 3: 'Bart vs. Lisa vs. The Third Grade'. Firmly in "Al Jean territory". Bart gets bumped back to 3rd grade and Lisa gets bumped up to 3rd grade so they're in the same classroom. It was an inspired premise at least. ah thanks! Ghost Leviathan posted:That's starting to explain a lot about other cartoons that have more and more questionable musical numbers in later seasons. it's incredible that not only have they made songs for every episode, which is a tremendous feat in itself, but a staggering number of them are total bangers too!
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Oct 24, 2023 11:55
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 this is apparently the lid off a coffin from a newly found Egyptian cemetery, i don't know if i really believe it
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Oct 24, 2023 12:00
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I genuinely loved the Kesha intro 
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Oct 24, 2023 12:18
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lushka16 posted:I genuinely loved the Kesha intro Stupid babies need the most attention
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Oct 24, 2023 15:55
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lushka16 posted:I genuinely loved the Kesha intro Kid, some might even say you're a hero. Not me though. I loved the Simpsons.
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Oct 24, 2023 16:03
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Mr Interweb posted:ah thanks! I think it helps that P&F never quite does the same thing twice (despite sticking firmly to its formula for the most part) with the music, with the songs being all over the place genre wise, and almost every character getting at least one turn in the spotlight, so it doesn't start to get predictable or repetitive.
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Oct 24, 2023 16:15
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It definitely helps that the P&F songs were well written. GoodSimpsons did songs sparingly and they were also well written, but now they'll just have Homer mumble out some first draft of a song someone came up with on the spot.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:24
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lushka16 posted:I genuinely loved the Kesha intro I just noticed the thread poll calls her Keisha poo poo, I wonder how Kiesza is doing. Wasn't she in a serious car accident?
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Oct 24, 2023 17:32
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Non Compos Mentis posted:
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Oct 24, 2023 17:57
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I think a lot of the songs in old Simpsons were good in part because they were affectionate parodies of well-loved songs that already existed in popular musicals - Monorail (The Music Man), See My Vest (Beauty and the Beast), Spring in Springfield (Best Little Whorehouse in Texas, arguably) etc. Then you had songs like the Streetcar Named Desire ones, which were great parodies of musical adaptations of otherwise quite brutal material in general. Later, they just became songs for the sake of it/residuals and/or shallow parodies that were done with nowhere near the level of love as before.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:58
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I'm generally a sucker for snappy songs, but I think the Simpsons probably has more flops for songs than hits. They're definitely not all the Planet of the Apes musical. Most of their songs exist for the jokes first rather than having like individual musical quality. Like The Spring in Springfield is a joke about musical numbers in general, but the actual song is kinda bleh. I don't think anybody is left humming Yvan Eht Nioj or Everybody Hates Ned Flanders. Even the Monorail song is more of a joke than a song, like it's playing off of the Music Man, and gets the vibe across, but it doesn't get into any of the patter that makes the Music Man work. It's just a couple rhyming couplets and then into chanting. So I think resenting the later songs comes down more to just not liking the jokes involved. Poking through the wiki to find songs to judge isn't very helpful because the lists like including all the real songs that Homer sings along to and the like, which I wouldn't count. Put it in H.
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Oct 24, 2023 23:43
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Don't forget I'm Checking In https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlUOBt5VXGE
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Oct 25, 2023 00:08
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Stonecutters erasure!
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Oct 25, 2023 00:18
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Sourdough Sam posted:Stonecutters erasure! Oh poo poo, you just put it in my head for the rest of the night
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Oct 25, 2023 00:23
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"I hate every ape I see..." It's like The Simpsons predicted NFTs.
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Oct 25, 2023 00:31
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pretty much every song from Songs in the Key of Springfield is a banger. They could do straight parodies like See My Vest, or totally brilliant originals like Bagged Me a Homer. I don't really know what happened by they always felt organic and well-placed in the first ~7 seasons.
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Oct 25, 2023 00:39
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I was much, much older than I should have been before I knew the actual story of Streetcar and the joke behind the "kindness of strangers" song in the Simpsons
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Oct 25, 2023 02:29
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Atlas Hugged posted:"I hate every ape I see..." from NFA to NFZ... brugroffil posted:I was much, much older than I should have been before I knew the actual story of Streetcar and the joke behind the "kindness of strangers" song in the Simpsons I always thought that the Streetcar Named Desire & Planet of the Apes musicals were funny but I didn't fully understand the concept of the joke until I was like 35, don't worry about it
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Oct 25, 2023 02:40
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I'm pretty sure that they consider it all the funnier that kids are first exposed to Planet of the Apes and Streetcar from the show and don't realise they're not musicals. Also been told that lawyers said that they'd get in trouble having the characters put on a production of Streetcar using its dialogue, but having songs about it as a musical production was fair use as parody. Also reminded that the first Treehouse of Horror does credit Edgar Allen Poe for writing The Raven. (which of course was public domain)
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Oct 25, 2023 05:46
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i didn't know that the Dr. Zaius song was a parody of Rock Me, Amadaeus until 2014 (i'm almost 40)
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Oct 25, 2023 10:52
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I'm also sometimes struck by how much effort they put into the lyrics and songwriting even of their dumb parodies. Like Krusty's version of "Send In the Clowns". Send in the clowns Those daffy, laffy clowns Send in those soulful and doleful, schmaltz-by-the-bowlful clowns. That's good wordplay! Siddown Stephen
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Oct 25, 2023 14:19
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Mr Interweb posted:i didn't know that the Dr. Zaius song was a parody of Rock Me, Amadaeus until 2014 I'm 36, I've never heard Rock Me Amadeus and I wouldn't know the Dr. Zaius song was a parody of it if my mom hadn't told me Data Graham posted:I'm also sometimes struck by how much effort they put into the lyrics and songwriting even of their dumb parodies. Like Krusty's version of "Send In the Clowns". It was today, just now, that I learned that Krusty's version of Send in the Clowns is different from the original 
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Oct 25, 2023 14:26
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