|
Pete has zero friends in high school. Originally he has Flash as a bully, Liz as a girl he has the hots for, and that's the sum total of his high school social life. He starts dating Betty but that was through The Daily Bugle.
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 20:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 21:59 |
|
|
Plus early Marvel happened in close to real time at the start. Peter is 15 when he gets his powers, so likely a high school sophomore and as pointed out, it's only 3 years later he graduates. Compared to Ultimate Spider-Man, which started in 1999 and Peter is still in high school when he dies in 2011. Air Skwirl fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Oct 23, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 21:14
|
|
|
Gwen was also really different in character under Ditko than Romita. Kind of a Veronica Lodge type.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 11:16
|
|
|
Gwen also got retconned into the sweet innocent one after her death when she and MJ were about equal in the cattiness and party-girl departments.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 12:05
|
|
|
Senior Woodchuck posted:Gwen was also really different in character under Ditko than Romita. Kind of a Veronica Lodge type. Even Peter himself, once Romita takes over, is much more of a social animal than he was under Ditko.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 14:01
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:Even Peter himself, once Romita takes over, is much more of a social animal than he was under Ditko. He was even more of an animal once the next Romita came along. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 14:10
|
|
|
Lobok posted:He was even more of an animal once the next Romita came along. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 16:58
|
|
|
that crop top...pete is fully in his slut era
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 17:02
|
|
|
Lobok posted:He was even more of an animal once the next Romita came along. "A buddy gave it to me as a gag" Yeah, suuurrre Pete, whatever you say... 
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 17:35
|
|
|
I've never seen it spelled "Mommie" before.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 17:57
|
|
|
I wish I never had.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 18:12
|
|
|
So, based on a Tales of the TARDIS thing going "Hey, you know that impression you got between two female companions back in the 80's? Yeah, we've decided that it's canon and they're a lesbian couple.", I was just wondering. Was there ever any sort of character indication or behaviour that hinted that Bobby "Iceman" Drake of the X-Men might be gay? Beyond his close personal relationship with Hank McCoy, who has been thoroughly established as heterosexual, beyond one line that he later said was a joke. Bobby didn't have 'great loves' like Scott did with Jean, or Rogue and Gambit, or really any canon male/female pairing, the closest one I remember was I think around the late 90's when there were some hints between him and Emma Frost, but that was it. Then we do the time displaced OG Five X-Men and TD-Jean goes "Bobby, you're gay." And suddenly, Bobby's gay. Just seems strange to me. At least when they flipped the orientation switch on Alan Scott recently, they had the lead in of him being retconned on another Earth and had aspects of his kids merged with him, one of which was his son Obsidian's homosexuality, and when stuff got re-retconned back that seemed to make him realize he had spent his life deep in the closet.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 19:05
|
|
|
Cornwind Evil posted:So, based on a Tales of the TARDIS thing going "Hey, you know that impression you got between two female companions back in the 80's? Yeah, we've decided that it's canon and they're a lesbian couple.", I was just wondering. Was there ever any sort of character indication or behaviour that hinted that Bobby "Iceman" Drake of the X-Men might be gay? Beyond his close personal relationship with Hank McCoy, who has been thoroughly established as heterosexual, beyond one line that he later said was a joke. Bobby didn't have 'great loves' like Scott did with Jean, or Rogue and Gambit, or really any canon male/female pairing, the closest one I remember was I think around the late 90's when there were some hints between him and Emma Frost, but that was it. Then we do the time displaced OG Five X-Men and TD-Jean goes "Bobby, you're gay." And suddenly, Bobby's gay. If you listen to Scott Lobdell he planted seeds for it, but Lobdell is the kind of guy who would try to retroactively grab credit. Bobby had several relationships with women throughout the years, none of which lasted super long which is enough for some to be proof in hindsight. Off the top of my head he had a crush on Cloud from the Defenders (who themselves was genderfluid before that term was in wide use, but Bobby was of course only into the female version), Polaris picked Havok over Bobby, a mutant named Infectia, the terribly named Opal Tanaka who was the daughter of a cyber-yakuza gang, that nurse Chuck Austen liked so much, even Mystique for a time but nothing like a Peter/MJ thing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 19:31
|
|
|
Cornwind Evil posted:So, based on a Tales of the TARDIS thing going "Hey, you know that impression you got between two female companions back in the 80's? Yeah, we've decided that it's canon and they're a lesbian couple.", I was just wondering. Was there ever any sort of character indication or behaviour that hinted that Bobby "Iceman" Drake of the X-Men might be gay? Beyond his close personal relationship with Hank McCoy, who has been thoroughly established as heterosexual, beyond one line that he later said was a joke. Bobby didn't have 'great loves' like Scott did with Jean, or Rogue and Gambit, or really any canon male/female pairing, the closest one I remember was I think around the late 90's when there were some hints between him and Emma Frost, but that was it. Then we do the time displaced OG Five X-Men and TD-Jean goes "Bobby, you're gay." And suddenly, Bobby's gay. I believe in an interview Bendis said* the reason he picked Bobby in particular is that wayyyy back in the original X-Men comics, he was the only one who wasn't hitting on Jean. *However, I can't find any actual interview via googling so maybe I'm just making that up based on half-remembered goon comments at the time. I can find a podcast but I'm way too lazy to actually listen to a whole interview.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 19:42
|
|
|
Episode 8 of Cerebrocast is about Bobby Drake, and if there's anyone who's going to tease out every single possible hint of Iceman being gay it's going to be that podcast. I might listen to it soon (I like Cerebrocast, but the episodes are sooooooo long. It's funnybecause that's refered to as a "Giant Size" episode at two and a half hours back in 2020, basically none of his episodes now are less than 3 hours and he just did 5 part series on Madelyn Pryde). But yeah, the first issue of Uncanny X-Men has everyone else in the O-5 being excited about finally having a girl at the school and Bobby being all "girls are dumb" though I assume Lee/Kirby's intention with that originally was just highlighting that he's the youngest member, but that was also 70 years ago.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 19:52
|
|
|
Family Guy was trying to out Iceman back in 2006. I've seen some people say they thought he came across as gay in Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends, but that might just be people being weird about Frank Welker's Fred Jones voice.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 20:52
|
|
|
TwoPair posted:I believe in an interview Bendis said* the reason he picked Bobby in particular is that wayyyy back in the original X-Men comics, he was the only one who wasn't hitting on Jean. I think Bobby was the youngest and was supposed to be like 14. This was the 60s too. Edit: he was 16 and everyone else was 18 or 19. I think Bobby was supposed to be more of a kid compared to the other young adults. Mr Hootington fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Nov 5, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 21:55
|
|
|
Yeah, there's nothing I would have been less interested in as a 16 year old boy at a previously all boys school than an 18 year old girl.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 22:15
|
|
|
Air Skwirl posted:Yeah, there's nothing I would have been less interested in as a 16 year old boy at a previously all boys school than an 18 year old girl. It was 1963. There was a lot of "wholesome Americana nuclear family" in media back then
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2023 22:29
|
|
|
Cornwind Evil posted:So, based on a Tales of the TARDIS thing going "Hey, you know that impression you got between two female companions back in the 80's? Yeah, we've decided that it's canon and they're a lesbian couple.", I was just wondering. Was there ever any sort of character indication or behaviour that hinted that Bobby "Iceman" Drake of the X-Men might be gay? Beyond his close personal relationship with Hank McCoy, who has been thoroughly established as heterosexual, beyond one line that he later said was a joke. Bobby didn't have 'great loves' like Scott did with Jean, or Rogue and Gambit, or really any canon male/female pairing, the closest one I remember was I think around the late 90's when there were some hints between him and Emma Frost, but that was it. Then we do the time displaced OG Five X-Men and TD-Jean goes "Bobby, you're gay." And suddenly, Bobby's gay. There's a moment I still remember clearly although for the life of me I can't remember what issue or even what series it was in, or I'd get you the panel. This was when he was dating Kitty Pryde, and had been for months -- and before All-New X-Men even launched. Bobby had made a giant ice mech and Kitty was in the cockpit with him, and in a line I've literally never been able to forget, Kitty tells him that if he manages to pull off whatever improbable feat he's attempting, she'll "let [him] get to second base". And Bobby's response is "doesn't count if you're phased!" At the time when I read it, I thought the relationship was dead in the water right there. Some riveting sexual attraction you've got with your girlfriend if you haven't even groped her months after starting the relationship, buddy. That's clearly going very well. And... basically all his relationships were like that. They were chaste as hell. The sort of thing where, after Bendis decides to make him gay, you can look back and go "yeah, dude never seemed very into actually dating women".
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 03:10
|
|
|
Air Skwirl posted:Episode 8 of Cerebrocast is about Bobby Drake, and if there's anyone who's going to tease out every single possible hint of Iceman being gay it's going to be that podcast. I might listen to it soon (I like Cerebrocast, but the episodes are sooooooo long. It's funnybecause that's refered to as a "Giant Size" episode at two and a half hours back in 2020, basically none of his episodes now are less than 3 hours and he just did 5 part series on Madelyn Pryde). I never listened to the Iceman episode but he's brought up the Iceman / Emma Frost body swap issue a number of times, specifically at the end where she yells at him that he'll never be able to live up to his full potential if he's lying to himself. Lobdell may be a shithead, but there's other social issues that were squashed by editorial that writers wanted to grapple with so I wouldn't be surprised if they were trying to write Iceman as gay in the 90s. Of the subject of gay subtext, does anybody remember the Angel: Revelations miniseries? I read it like maybe 10 years ago and remember very little about it, but I seem to recall a fair bit of homoerotic stuff in there. That might just be the general puberty metaphor and this cover, though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 04:01
|
|
|
I was reading about Bobby and Mystique and part of it was Raven seducing Bobby so she could betray the X-Men - shock - with the Marauders for some reason or other. When it goes down, Bobby finds himself unable to use his powers properly and asks Mystique what she did to him and she says: "Neural inhibitor, Robert. In my lipstick and-- elsewhere." Thanks, Mike Carey.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 04:06
|
|
|
CapnAndy posted:There's a moment I still remember clearly although for the life of me I can't remember what issue or even what series it was in, or I'd get you the panel. This was when he was dating Kitty Pryde, and had been for months -- and before All-New X-Men even launched. Bobby had made a giant ice mech and Kitty was in the cockpit with him, and in a line I've literally never been able to forget, Kitty tells him that if he manages to pull off whatever improbable feat he's attempting, she'll "let [him] get to second base". And Bobby's response is "doesn't count if you're phased!" At the time when I read it, I thought the relationship was dead in the water right there. Some riveting sexual attraction you've got with your girlfriend if you haven't even groped her months after starting the relationship, buddy. That's clearly going very well.  It's also, however, like a year after All-New X-Men launched (ANX-M #14 came out the same month), though admittedly a year and a half before Young Iceman was revealed to be gay. Jason Aaron's W&tX-M was crossing over/coordinated with Bendis's books though, so it's reasonable to assume that by the time this was issue was written, Bendis's plan to 'out' Iceman (which he and his editors have said were part of his initial pitch) was something Aaron knew about.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 05:02
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:That particular scene was from Wolverine & The X-Men #34. That's genuinely interesting context, though. I guess it was just well seeded foreshadowing, then?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 05:35
|
|
|
Has Jean ever been called out for how she outed Bobby? It was an extremely lovely thing to do
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 06:07
|
|
|
thetoughestbean posted:Has Jean ever been called out for how she outed Bobby? It was an extremely lovely thing to do I think so. Like in the next issue or something maybe?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 08:55
|
|
|
thetoughestbean posted:Has Jean ever been called out for how she outed Bobby? It was an extremely lovely thing to do Certainly a segment of the fans did, even some of the ones in favor.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 13:54
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:If you listen to Scott Lobdell he planted seeds for it, but Lobdell is the kind of guy who would try to retroactively grab credit. Lobdell was definitely planting seeds in Rogue and Iceman's post-AOA road trip, and in Bobby's interactions with his dad (whose whole vibe is "my son is
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 14:23
|
|
|
Senior Woodchuck posted:Lobdell was definitely planting seeds in Rogue and Iceman's post-AOA road trip, and in Bobby's interactions with his dad (whose whole vibe is "my son is was that before or after X2 and the "have you ever tried not being a mutant?" scene
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 23:45
|
|
|
Alaois posted:was that before or after X2 and the "have you ever tried not being a mutant?" scene Well before as Chuck was the writer of Uncanny when x-men came out. In fact the episode with the crucifixion was released close to opening day
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 00:11
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:Well before as Chuck was the writer of Uncanny when x-men came out. In fact the episode with the crucifixion was released close to opening day either chuck started writing uncanny way earlier than i thought or x-men 1 came out way later than i thought
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 07:55
|
|
|
The first X-men movie came out mid 2000 and the sequel(which I assume bobkatt was referring to) came out May 2003, Austen took over Uncanny X-men following Joe Casey in late 2002
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 10:30
|
|
|
Genuinely asking, I’m actually curious on this one: Have any writers tried to put a lesbian spin on Red Sonja? Like, I’m picturing the goddess appearing to her and giving the whole ‘blessing, etc, no man can have you and so on’ speech and Sonja just smiling at her like ‘yeah sure works for me’.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 18:54
|
|
|
Vandar posted:Have any writers tried to put a lesbian spin on Red Sonja? Like, I’m picturing the goddess appearing to her and giving the whole ‘blessing, etc, no man can have you and so on’ speech and Sonja just smiling at her like ‘yeah sure works for me’. When Gail Simone wrote her, she throttled back on the 'only a man who bests me in battle can have me' but did lean into Sonja being hella bisexual.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 18:58
|
|
|
This might be a reach but I'm trying to identify the source for a particular cartooning style that was popular in the UK in the late 80s / early 90s. The picture above was a reader's submission to Sonic the Comic #30, published July 1994. It's pretty clearly a kid copying a specific style, and it seems oddly familiar to me and a number of other Brits around the same age. However I can't figure out where it originated from. The hooded eyes are quite Garfieldy but the bulbous, shiny noses aren't from there. The in-game designs for the characters in the first Discworld point n click adventure game are also close but the game was released after this drawing. I've not been able to find anything online and I'm turning to the BSS hive mind in the hopes that this jogs someone else's memory.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2023 08:09
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:When Gail Simone wrote her, she throttled back on the 'only a man who bests me in battle can have me' but did lean into Sonja being hella bisexual. Even back in the day Roy Thomas had it as ambiguous as to whether the covenant was even real or her hallucinating from blood loss. (Mostly for angst when the Hot Dude of the Week turned up) But yeah, post-Simone Sonja's been pretty regularly depicted as queer.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2023 15:56
|
|
|
Party Boat posted:This might be a reach but I'm trying to identify the source for a particular cartooning style that was popular in the UK in the late 80s / early 90s. It looks a lot like a knock-off Don Martin in that there are specific features (eyes, mouth sorta, bulbousness) that seem very reminiscent of his work.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2023 17:32
|
|
|
 Obviously not perfectly, though, and your example doesn't have the huge chins he's known for, but I remember a lot of t-shirts and what not from that era where the art was almost certainly a pastiche of specific styles. Zachack fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Nov 17, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2023 17:37
|
|
|
It also might be inspired by another Mad artist, Duck Edwing: 
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2023 15:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 21:59 |
|
|
I'm not sure how prevalent MAD was in the UK in the early 90s though - I certainly don't recall ever seeing it, but I do recall seeing kids draw in that (or a similar) style who likely had never read MAD. If anything, it brings to mind Amiga box-art which would also be locale and era appropriate, but I can't quite place it specifically.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2023 17:47
|
|
