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iirc Skylines 2 is also doing that Daikatana poo poo where they're rendering teeth in the tiny sims that don't open their mouths and wouldn't be visible even if they did
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Oct 24, 2023 13:51
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Tiny Timbs posted:iirc Skylines 2 is also doing that Daikatana poo poo where they're rendering teeth in the tiny sims that don't open their mouths and wouldn't be visible even if they did But my immersion!
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Oct 24, 2023 13:52
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Volte posted:sub-60 fps on high-end PC hardware is going to be normal for like the next two or three years at least. Welcome to next gen.
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Oct 24, 2023 13:53
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Normal and necessary are two very different things but let’s be real that new console gens leading to really dumb PC port issues is unfortunately the norm. Certainly wish it wasn’t.
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Oct 24, 2023 13:58
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Antigravitas posted:Nobody who knows how to write low-latency high performance code willingly works in game development, and keeping a lid on poly/texture/draw call budgets requires expertise as well. Yeah, I encountered this right when I got out of uni with my computer touching degree in hand. Looked at some gamedev jobs on the one hand, and some "regular" industry jobs on the other. The latter tended to pay on average like 50% more (sometimes double if it was in something finance-adjacent), while usually also having much better ratings/reputations in terms of quality of life. And that was just for entry-level positions, much less anything requiring experience or niche skills.
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Oct 24, 2023 14:05
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Perestroika posted:Yeah, I encountered this right when I got out of uni with my computer touching degree in hand. Looked at some gamedev jobs on the one hand, and some "regular" industry jobs on the other. The latter tended to pay on average like 50% more (sometimes double if it was in something finance-adjacent), while usually also having much better ratings/reputations in terms of quality of life. And that was just for entry-level positions, much less anything requiring experience or niche skills. Yeah I originally wanted to do game dev instead of non-game software development but by the time I graduated I had looked at whether I wanted to have vastly worse quality of life, less pay, and less job security and said “hmm no”
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Oct 24, 2023 14:23
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Qmass posted:what a load of horseshit, even ignoring 4xxxx and framegen... Skulker posted:Is there a reason developers don't optimise anything any more? Volte fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Oct 24, 2023 |
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Oct 24, 2023 14:38
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I know only 3 of us played Exoprimal, but that ran at 60 FPS with raptors as far as the eye could see in complicated map geometry. Optimization is everything.
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Oct 24, 2023 14:39
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Donnerberg posted:I know only 3 of us played Exoprimal, but that ran at 60 FPS with raptors as far as the eye could see in complicated map geometry. Optimization is everything.
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Oct 24, 2023 14:40
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Optimization can still be done even with the new methods though, even if I am on team “it’s probably gonna be hosed for a bit.” It’s not as though devs don’t have a history of just taking the easy way out once it’s presented, with things like on disk game size or certain types of procedural generation. There’s absolutely going to be some games that could have been optimized better but they just slapped on DLSS and called it a day.
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Oct 24, 2023 14:44
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Jack Trades posted:
I mean this is the type of weird attitude that I think can be quite easily spun round. It's a city builder - what the gently caress are you doing if it can't hit 60?
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Oct 24, 2023 14:44
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I think it'd be neat if we stopped adding features to games that increase graphical fidelity in an almost unnoticeable way for a 30 FPS cost. While I've enjoyed ray tracing in a few games and DLSS is amazing, I just feel like we're losing performance for tiny gains in graphics because we've kind of hit a peak. While a 360 era game is going to look worse (due to art direction/color choices for many games), the difference between that era and now is not even close to something like the previous generation to the 360/ps3 era. Just don't feel like it's worth games running like poo poo for this, it was nice to get PC ports that actually ran well for a while last gen.
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Oct 24, 2023 14:48
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The pervasive "lazy devs" narrative is easily the worst thing about the gaming community, especially when "devs are overworked and crunch is bad" is the parallel through-line in many of the very same places.
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Oct 24, 2023 14:48
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Volte posted:The pervasive "lazy devs" narrative is easily worst thing about the gaming community, especially when "devs are overworked and crunch is bad" is the parallel through-line in many of the very same places. To be extremely clear I’m not saying that they’re lazy, I hate that bullshit. I’m saying that when given the option, if they don’t have to optimize things like game size - specifically because the industry is a nightmare and it’s not worth what little time they have - they will take that route. Optimizing a game is ridiculously hard so if solutions exist that work 50% as well, I don’t blame them for taking them but it still sucks for the end user.
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Oct 24, 2023 14:51
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Mr E posted:I think it'd be neat if we stopped adding features to games that increase graphical fidelity in an almost unnoticeable way for a 30 FPS cost. While I've enjoyed ray tracing in a few games and DLSS is amazing, I just feel like we're losing performance for tiny gains in graphics because we've kind of hit a peak. While a 360 era game is going to look worse (due to art direction/color choices for many games), the difference between that era and now is not even close to something like the previous generation to the 360/ps3 era. Just don't feel like it's worth games running like poo poo for this, it was nice to get PC ports that actually ran well for a while last gen. Orv posted:To be extremely clear I’m not saying that they’re lazy, I hate that bullshit. I’m saying that when given the option, if they don’t have to optimize things like game size - specifically because the industry is a nightmare and it’s not worth what little time they have - they will take that route. Optimizing a game is ridiculously hard so if solutions exist that work 50% as well, I don’t blame them for taking them but it still sucks for the end user. There's obviously a lot of precedent for games running like poo poo due to lack of optimization, and this generation is surely not going to be an exception, but unlike before, even well-optimized games are going to demand high specs.
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Oct 24, 2023 14:59
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Volte posted:There's optimization, i.e. not leaving performance/disk space/etc on the table due to unnecessary wasted work, and there's simply engineering towards high-end specs, and we're already seeing a lot more of the latter this generation. Once you go down certain development paths which, this generation, include things like relying on asset streaming, more artist-friendly lighting techniques, new kinds of hardware acceleration, etc., there's no amount of optimization that will make those games run well on older hardware. What people called optimization in that case means "write the game differently". Right but you can only target so high because the current consoles are already behind the current highest end of PC hardware, in most areas anyway and we already have games coming out that run like poo poo on both. We also have had games come out that run great so it’s clearly not just one thing.
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Oct 24, 2023 15:04
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fit em all up in there posted:Anyone here try out pandemic train ? I was quite interested in its half/half split of survival management with action combat/scavenging, ala something like Death Road to Canada or This War of Mine, so I did give the demo a whirl. What I found was ok, but rather bland and unexciting: the management part was nice but felt like it got rather repetitive quickly, and the combat part felt really dry with braindead AI and dull worlds to explore. Combat in particularly felt like it was stuck in a bad middle-ground where it hasn't chosen an appropriate theme: it isn't action-packed and fast enough to be fun and exciting, yet it also isn't slow, deliberate and deadly enough to feel immersive. I wouldn't say it's bad, but it felt a bit dull in its execution so it was a pass for me: maybe give the demo a whirl yourself as sometimes I am quick to pass judgment. If you're fine with RTS/Commandos-esque combat instead of twin-stick, I'd say go for Last Train Home instead (tho it isn't out yet), or if you don't mind missing the action sequences, Frostpunk was one of my favorites survival sims. FutureCop fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Oct 24, 2023 |
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Oct 24, 2023 15:11
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Orv posted:Right but you can only target so high because the current consoles are already behind the current highest end of PC hardware, in most areas anyway and we already have games coming out that run like poo poo on both. We also have had games come out that run great so it’s clearly not just one thing.
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Oct 24, 2023 15:26
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Just make everything on the resident evil engine so I can play it at 30 fps on my watch at least
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Oct 24, 2023 16:24
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Volte posted:The pervasive "lazy devs" narrative is easily the worst thing about the gaming community, especially when "devs are overworked and crunch is bad" is the parallel through-line in many of the very same places. Note that nobody got lazy or un-lazy during this process. 30fps limits on good hardware is a choice that has trade offs and I think it's a bad choice for a city builder. No Wave fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Oct 24, 2023 |
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Oct 24, 2023 16:32
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I think the big problem with the games coming out with performance problems due to 'next gen' tech is it's pretty hard to see the difference on the screen from the stuff we used to get at 60fps. I think if they were putting out stuff that was obviously a big jump to the average person you'd get more understanding, but I usually have to watch a digital foundry video to know why I should be impressed
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Oct 24, 2023 16:35
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lol apparently the MGS collection doesn't even really run at the 1080p they promised, the menus run at that but then the actual gameplay switches to 720p just like the OG HD collection konami
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Oct 24, 2023 16:52
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repiv posted:lol apparently the MGS collection doesn't even really run at the 1080p they promised, the menus run at that but then the actual gameplay switches to 720p just like the OG HD collection It's really incredible that emulating the PS2 games, the last HD collection, or playing on xbone with actually decent upscaling are all better options than buying the new versions on PC.
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Oct 24, 2023 16:56
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Extremely weird that anyone is surprised by this, honestly. Don’t give Konami your money in TYOOL 2023. Not for this and not for the new games either.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:06
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Antigravitas posted:Nobody who knows how to write low-latency high performance code willingly works in game development, and keeping a lid on poly/texture/draw call budgets requires expertise as well. It doesn't help that devs constantly get fired or laid off during a game's development process so no one has domain knowledge of their own game by the time they need to optimize.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:19
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Somebody take one for the team and let us know if Cities 2 is good or not, frame rate and all.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:35
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Speaking of frame rates, I just looked at Alan Wake 2's recommended specs and holy poo poo. I guess its supposed to look amazing though.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:36
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"devs" is too broad a term imo. it encompassea the board and management of a developer, who are almost always cartoonishly evil villains, and the overworked programmers chained to their desks.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:36
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:Speaking of frame rates, I just looked at Alan Wake 2's recommended specs and holy poo poo. I guess its supposed to look amazing though. the buried lede mentioned by one of the devs on twitter is that it requires mesh shaders, a fairly new GPU feature, so anything older than a GTX16/RTX20 or RX6000 card can't run it at all
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Oct 24, 2023 17:39
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:Speaking of frame rates, I just looked at Alan Wake 2's recommended specs and holy poo poo. I guess its supposed to look amazing though. I really thought my 3080 would last longer before being relegated to "medium 1440p/30fps, maybe  "
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Oct 24, 2023 17:39
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Cartoon Man posted:Sounds awful. I’ve wishlisted it The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Vlad Games > Steam Thread: Sounds awful. I've wishlisted it
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Oct 24, 2023 17:41
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Speaking of ports/remakes, I already mentioned it before but I'm very excited for STAR OCEAN THE SECOND STORY R: looks to be a very polished and modernized remake of the PS1 classic. I was really impressed with the demo and all of its quality-of-life features, like random encounters being removed in favor of modeling the monsters physically in the world, combat being revamped with a new bonus system and having spells no longer bringing it to a tedious crawl, fast travel, 2x speed, being able to choose older-style portraits if you want, and much more, while still remaining very faithful to the original (and the demo allows you to keep your progress into the full game as well). I'm usually a 'wait for sale' kinda guy and I can understand people balking at the price for what is essentially a PS1 game, but the quality on display makes me want to buy it outright, which is much more than I can say for those MGS ports.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:48
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What gets to me about Cities Skylines is that it’s missing basic stuff like DLSS and only FSR1 is supported, support for the much better FSR2 is missing. Apparently the developers wanted a delay but Paradox was insisting they release it this quarter and are paying for it with bad reviews.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:54
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Any Heroes of Might & Magic 3 fans in the audience? I have great news for you https://store.steampowered.com/publisher/wargaming/sale/HoMMIIIxWoWS
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Oct 24, 2023 18:28
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From now on I'm referring to the genre as Hommwows
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Oct 24, 2023 18:30
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:Speaking of frame rates, I just looked at Alan Wake 2's recommended specs and holy poo poo. I guess its supposed to look amazing though. this poo poo needs to come with a list of graphics features that you can turn off for the biggest improvement I know Control looked amazing with ray tracing and that only needed a 2060 or better.
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Oct 24, 2023 18:32
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victrix posted:Any Heroes of Might & Magic 3 fans in the audience? Yes and god drat you for making me think this was something cool instead of this 
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Oct 24, 2023 18:33
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:Speaking of frame rates, I just looked at Alan Wake 2's recommended specs and holy poo poo. I guess its supposed to look amazing though. I don't care how good your game looks but if you can only manage minimum settings 1080p/30 on an RTX 2060 then you have seriously hosed up somewhere.
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Oct 24, 2023 18:33
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Jack Trades posted:I don't care how good your game looks but if you can only manage minimum settings 1080p/30 on an RTX 2060 then you have seriously hosed up somewhere. It's a good thing that alan wake is a city builder where there's no real benefit to 60 fps
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Oct 24, 2023 18:34
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It feels like studios or publishers aren’t looking at steam surveys or just keeping track of hardware prices. Like, I get optimization is hard but it’s also a matter of making something for the target market. victrix posted:Any Heroes of Might & Magic 3 fans in the audience? W…what?
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Oct 24, 2023 18:40
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