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Timby posted:When re-shoots were ordered by Sherry Lansing following some dodgy test screenings, it was almost entirely for the on-location stuff. Which meant they had to re-build the village all over again. It feels like this happens enough that they should build in a bit of a grace period for sets.
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Oct 24, 2023 19:38
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No Dignity posted:It's what Gene wanted Is there anything to suggest that those weren't waves and waves of cum? V'ger cum, I mean.
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Oct 24, 2023 19:53
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Sash! posted:Is there anything to suggest that those weren't waves and waves of cum? V'ger cum, I mean. The movie DOES end with Decker heroically going "I shall gently caress the robot to save all of humanity!" and then exploding in a flash of white light, so make of that what you will.
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Oct 24, 2023 19:56
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When Decker said that he wanted to be closer to Ilia, he really meant it.
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Oct 24, 2023 20:13
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DavidCameronsPig posted:III isn’t bad, it just has the misfortune of being sandwiched between the two best films, so it gets lumped in with the genuinely terrible ones. It was good. It just wasn’t great like II was. It feels very TV-level in a lot of ways (looks worse, not at all self-contained, more about ongoing plot stuff than any grand themes). It's not bad TV though. Although the very nature of the plot kind of dooms it to being a bit ridiculous. "We need to bring Spock back to life, make it work."
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Oct 24, 2023 21:17
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Yeah, the difference between III and Insurrection is the difference between "this feels like a good episode of the TV show" and "this feels like a meh-to-bad episode of the TV show."
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Oct 24, 2023 21:23
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Yeah it basically set the blue print for Klingon culture going forward. But also Saavik has to gently caress 5 day old Spock because of Pon Farr : / The katra stuff always seemed a little too space magic for me, as well, but it's certainly not hte only thing in ST like that
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Oct 24, 2023 21:23
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I figure for telepathy to be a thing that works in any way shape or form how it does in the show, some sort of quantum entanglement must be involved. Once you go down that route, cloning the brain drive seems trivial.
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Oct 24, 2023 22:20
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Pwnstar posted:The con artist who impersonated Tuvok but got really into it because he thought Tuvok was really cool
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Oct 24, 2023 22:44
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nine-gear crow posted:The movie DOES end with Decker heroically going "I shall gently caress the robot to save all of humanity!" and then exploding in a flash of white light, so make of that what you will. Truly Gene's Vision if I've ever heard it
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Oct 24, 2023 23:20
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 From Mad Magazine.
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Oct 25, 2023 00:11
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I really, really really to know what Ilia has to do with Taiwan in this metaphor.
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Oct 25, 2023 00:17
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zoux posted:Still never seen Nemesis. You guys need to try "not watching poo poo that sucks". oh no Nemesis. Whoof, what a downer of an ending. As much as the film is trying SO HARD to be Wrath of Khan, it doesn't leave room for any hope at all, even with B4 knocking about with a head full of his memories, Data is still atoms. It doesn't feel like a sequel hook, just an ambiguous full stop. That's your lot, come on, don't be miserable, here's the theme tune, DON'T YOU FEEL SO UPLIFTED. There's a weird quality to it, as much as it revisits a load of lore regarding Romulans and their biogenic weapon stuff, none of it feels very TNG and obviously the Remans come out of nowhere. Hell, it doesn't feel very Star Trek, beyond the obvious aesthetics. No, oddly enough, it feels very Bond-like, lots of focus on gadgets and weapons and vehicles and so on. Unfortunately, the era of Bond it most feels like, for obvious reasons, is the Brosnan era where it's all a bit surface level glossy, built upon action sequences rather than story, making it ultimately empty. The action schlock is strongest here, so many whizzing lasers and explosions and punches thrown. In service of what? Tom Hardy got a lot of poo poo for this film and it's hard to deny that he looks more like Doctor Evil than a young Picard, but god drat it, he is trying. Flouncing about with his little coat flaps, sneering "I WUZ LONELY" and doubling over occasionally like he's got a bad case of the shits. And then he dies hilariously to some crap "METAL AS gently caress" set design. He's doing a drat sight better than most of the regulars who just sort of give up part of the way through. Stewart just looks terminally miserable even before Data carks it, except for when he is bouncing about in a buggy, which is surely his most "Captain Kirk is climbing a mountain/Why is he climbing a mountain?" moment. In its favour, Jerry Goldsmith, poor Jerry, not long left, it's one of his last and while not one of his best, it pretty much hoists the movie on its shoulders and carries it kicking and screaming. Final Flight in particular, great piece of music. I wish the film deserved it. Well, poo poo, that's it, I did it. That's all of TNG done (no, I'm not watching loving Picard S1/2, they sound even more miserable), thank you for tolerating my drivel.
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Oct 25, 2023 00:38
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Atlas Hugged posted:I really, really really to know what Ilia has to do with Taiwan in this metaphor. Part of a number of cheap bald jokes, Telly Salvalas fan club, etc.
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Oct 25, 2023 00:44
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MuddyFunster posted:oh no Do not watch Season 3 of Picard either.
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Oct 25, 2023 00:45
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MuddyFunster posted:No, oddly enough, it feels very Bond-like, lots of focus on gadgets and weapons and vehicles and so on. Unfortunately, the era of Bond it most feels like, for obvious reasons, is the Brosnan era where it's all a bit surface level glossy, built upon action sequences rather than story, making it ultimately empty. Uh, that sounds exactly like an Ian Fleming novel, except he actually could tell a compelling story based around "James Bond raced to the fight scene in his PERFECT CAR from the flat where he was banging the HOTTEST WOMAN EVER after eating an EXQUISTE MEAL at the BEST CLUB IN THE WORLD after winning ALL THE GAMBLING" because he was a good writer.
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Oct 25, 2023 00:50
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Fornax Disaster posted:Part of a number of cheap bald jokes, Telly Salvalas fan club, etc. You have to at least slap a mustache on her.
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Oct 25, 2023 00:52
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skasion posted:Mid is the perfect word to describe Insurrection. It’s unambitious as hell. Even the other bad Trek movies usually try to go big in some way, even if it’s “the crew meet God, who turns out to have laser eyes”. It’s absolutely unbelievable that they thought this was the Star Trek movie to make as DS9 was reaching its dramatic height and Voyager was uhhh…voyaging. How can you not go for a “what the TNG crew was doing in the Dominion War” premise?? A funny thing about this is they did acknowledge that the Dominion War was happening, but they were just in diplomatic milk runs finding "allies" to side with the Federation against the Dominion. Which, idk if that's what your militarized flag ship would be doing during a quadrant spanning war, even if it is crewed by people that are more famous for their diplomatic exploits than their martial ones.
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Oct 25, 2023 01:40
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FISHMANPET posted:A funny thing about this is they did acknowledge that the Dominion War was happening, but they were just in diplomatic milk runs finding "allies" to side with the Federation against the Dominion. Which, idk if that's what your militarized flag ship would be doing during a quadrant spanning war, even if it is crewed by people that are more famous for their diplomatic exploits than their martial ones. With the amount of ships Starfleet did have, if they did actually get other allies to join than than it was probably an okay use of the diplomatic flag ship. Although yeah probably could of given them a fast less well armed ship. I'm sure they would of had something about. And have you seen Picard in a space fight, every thing Dominion ship who started approaching he'd be like "Oh no we don't want to go to alert, or put shields up yet, that might scare the Dominion ship into attacking us!".
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Oct 25, 2023 01:54
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The D was a diplomatic ship, but I'm not entirely sure the E was also a diplomatic ship. Smaller and more heavily armed than the D, member of a generation of Starfleet vessels optimized for fighting the Borg. But then again, what else would you put them in. If you're running around flying the flag to drum up support, you probably want to be able to show your potential allies that you're ready to fight.
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Oct 25, 2023 02:04
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I was watching Prodigal Daughter yesterday and Picard series 3 actually reminds me a bit of it. Where there's a few stories going on that have been mashed together and none of them QUITE work because of it. Just escalating coincidences to make it all tie up
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Oct 25, 2023 02:07
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:When Decker said that he wanted to be closer to Ilia, he really meant it. No he didn’t. She’s way too old for Stephen Collins.
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Oct 25, 2023 02:09
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nine-gear crow posted:Do not watch Season 3 of Picard either. WHOOPS! Sash! posted:Uh, that sounds exactly like an Ian Fleming novel, except he actually could tell a compelling story based around "James Bond raced to the fight scene in his PERFECT CAR from the flat where he was banging the HOTTEST WOMAN EVER after eating an EXQUISTE MEAL at the BEST CLUB IN THE WORLD after winning ALL THE GAMBLING" because he was a good writer. You can make a case that applies to Bond in general, sure. Just that particular Brosnan era of Bond feels especially flimsy. I recall a bit in one of them where he's sneaking into some office or something and it just looked like a branch of HMV. Nemesis has that same feeling, all plasticky and "off". The Son'a ship interiors in Insurrection as well, come to think of it. The late 90s/early 00s aesthetic I guess. MuddyFunster fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Oct 25, 2023 |
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Oct 25, 2023 02:13
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I wish they did holiday episodes. Make it snowing in space for the Christmas special. Give us periodic Halloween episodes where everyone dresses up but becomes their costumes or whatever.
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Oct 25, 2023 02:23
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Khanstant posted:Give us periodic Halloween episodes where everyone dresses up but becomes their costumes or whatever. Hello, have you heard of the episode "Masks".
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Oct 25, 2023 02:43
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What I think really makes The Motion Picture stand out as pure, distilled Trek is that Kirk not once fires a shot in the movie. Oh, he calls for phasers to hit the rock in the wormhole, but the order is canceled by Decker, and technically this was just using the weapons to deal with a phenomenon, not a conflict. The Klingons tried fighting V'ger directly, and welp. It makes for a good contrast on the philosophies of the two groups and ultimately makes a point about how the Federation's triumph in the galaxy is inevitable. Star Trek, at its core, is about resolving conflict through intelligence, empathy, discovery, and diplomacy. The space battles are just a little treat we get sometimes to remind us that the stakes are very real and that not all captains are created equally. Kirk's absolute refusal to ready weapons against V'ger gets the point across perfectly. Yes, this is a fantastically armed warship that could defend itself and create a wake of destruction, but the instinct of every great captain should be to hold back until the absolute last moment. The weapons do have other applications as we saw in the wormhole, and they can defend themselves, but the message is that they would prefer to show potential threats that they're willing to be vulnerable, willing to give the unknown the chance to strike first as a show of trust. But it is an armed warship, and it will defend itself in the end. It's a metaphor for the Federation as a whole. You can destroy one system on a ship, you can kill key crew members, you can even blow up the entire ship, but can't defeat the Federation. They will defend themselves in the end and the only entities that can actually defeat the Federation are all godlike beings who have other things to be doing. And really that's what I want out of my Trek. I want a fun adventure where the conflict isn't just some loving guy and space lasers aren't the default solution. TMP and WOK make for a good contrast in the study of Kirk though. Motion Picture is about how far Kirk will go as captain to complete his mission. Khan is about how far Kirk will go as captain to save his ship and crew. Khanstant posted:I wish they did holiday episodes. Make it snowing in space for the Christmas special. Give us periodic Halloween episodes where everyone dresses up but becomes their costumes or whatever. Technically they did a Halloween holiday special in TOS. It's not good.
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Oct 25, 2023 02:43
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Atlas Hugged posted:Technically they did a Halloween holiday special in TOS. It's not good. don't listen to their lies. watch the Halloween trek!!!
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Oct 25, 2023 02:56
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Some trek show should just straight up do a "Treehouse of horrors" three horror story anthology thing every year. Lower decks I'm looking in your direction here! (although hell SNW could pretty easily pull it off too.)
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Oct 25, 2023 03:00
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Prodigy being the "kids one" is also a good candidate. Also, I ate a brownie (full of weed) before watching TMP so yes, the experience itself was loving incredible.
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Oct 25, 2023 03:01
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Atlas Hugged posted:Prodigy being the "kids one" is also a good candidate. Oh prodigy could 100% pull off that style of episode, just if it you know still continues to exist and what not...... Yeah. I will say this though animated shows seem to have a better average at come backs than other shows.
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Oct 25, 2023 03:06
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Atlas Hugged posted:Star Trek, at its core, is about resolving conflict through intelligence, empathy, discovery, and diplomacy. The space battles are just a little treat we get sometimes to remind us that the stakes are very real and that not all captains are created equally. I think this is true on one hand, but also a movie should be something more than just a "bigger" episode. I think TV and movies are different mediums, and, idk, they should be a little different. Not that that necessarily justifies the action schlock of something like Insurrection, but I'm ok with movies and the shows having different energies.
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Oct 25, 2023 03:29
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Arivia posted:No he didn’t. She’s way too old for Stephen Collins. OOooof I used to hate watch 7th Heaven
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Oct 25, 2023 03:38
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During college my roommate and I marathoned all 10 movies. I'd watched a decent number of TNG episodes several years prior, but never any of the movies or TOS. We both thoroughly enjoyed every single one ... until Nemesis. Interesting to find out that it wasn't just us. I haven't seen Picard, but was hoping it'd amend some of that film's legacy. Sounds like it doesn't?
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Oct 25, 2023 03:56
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Macatt posted:During college my roommate and I marathoned all 10 movies. I'd watched a decent number of TNG episodes several years prior, but never any of the movies or TOS. We both thoroughly enjoyed every single one ... until Nemesis. Interesting to find out that it wasn't just us. It... It does not, no.
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Oct 25, 2023 04:02
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Picard absolutely rights a bunch of Nemesis' wrongsFISHMANPET posted:A funny thing about this is they did acknowledge that the Dominion War was happening, but they were just in diplomatic milk runs finding "allies" to side with the Federation against the Dominion. Which, idk if that's what your militarized flag ship would be doing during a quadrant spanning war, even if it is crewed by people that are more famous for their diplomatic exploits than their martial ones. Berman vetoed them having an exchange between Picard and Worf talking about the loss of his wife because that would confuse audiences, so there being any mention of the war at all was a concession
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Oct 25, 2023 04:13
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FISHMANPET posted:I think this is true on one hand, but also a movie should be something more than just a "bigger" episode. I think TV and movies are different mediums, and, idk, they should be a little different. Not that that necessarily justifies the action schlock of something like Insurrection, but I'm ok with movies and the shows having different energies. I definitely agree with you and I'm not saying that a "good" Star Trek movie is just a very well done and much bigger episode of the show, though it can be. I'm saying that at its core as a property, Star Trek is about a certain philosophic approach to conflict and an exploration of the themes of exploration and what it means to be a better humanity. Wrath of Khan absolutely gets that despite it being a big submarine battle in space. The Kelvin movies and most of the other really awful ones only focus on one superficial aspect of that film: the big bad. They overlook that it also asks pointed questions about mortality and aging; the inherent conflict between nature and science; and what duty and responsibility mean. You cut out those themes and all you're left with is a lovely revenge story. The Voyage Home, often considered the best movie, also doesn't really have any space battles in it. The Enterprise doesn't even make an appearance until the end. It probably could have been a TV episode, or a two or three parter, but it works much better as a feature length movie. It works though because it understands what the philosophy of Star Trek is, what the core themes are, and how to utilize the medium and the characters to tell a compelling story in that universe. I'm really looking forward to my Voyage Home rewatch because now that I've seen all the weird rear end time travel, alternate earth, and imitation earth episodes, Voyage Home is going to feel a lot less like the whale-out-water film I thought it was.
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Oct 25, 2023 04:15
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MuddyFunster posted:As much as the film is trying SO HARD to be Wrath of Khan This is the thing. When people say Into Darkness rips off Wrath of Khan, I want to just scream, "Nemesis is right there!" Showing the ship getting ready for battle in a big space cloud. Three-dimensional ship navigation. The science officer sacrificing himself to save the Enterprise from a ticking time bomb doomsday weapon. A hint that he's not totally gone. gently caress, Nemesis is terrible. Seemlar posted:Picard absolutely rights a bunch of Nemesis' wrongs Counterpoint: For almost two decades, Nemesis was, by far, the worst that Trek had ever produced. Then in 2020, 2022 and 2023, Picard came around and said, "Hold my beer. You ain't seen nothing yet." **proceeds to have Dr. Jurati eating car batteries**
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Oct 25, 2023 04:50
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I think Nemesis still handily has that crown. I can see myself watching S1 and S3 of Picard again, Nemesis I could happily consign to history entirely. For a series of movies as long as it is Nemesis really manages to be an aberration.
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Oct 25, 2023 05:55
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Seemlar posted:I can see myself watching S1 and S3 of Picard again, Nemesis I could happily consign to history entirely. I'd consider rewatching S1 and S3 of Picard with someone who hadn't seen them, maaaaaaaaaaybe S2 if they're big Borg Queen fans. Both seasons have some very good stuff in them, it's just that in S1 all those cool plot threads go nowhere and it ends badly, and in S3 the good stuff is connected by some abysmally stupid parts.
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Oct 25, 2023 06:17
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Seemlar posted:I think Nemesis still handily has that crown. I can see myself watching S1 and S3 of Picard again, Nemesis I could happily consign to history entirely. By far the stupidest thing in Nemesis was that all references and writing about giving the crew any epilogue was nixed because the producers didn't want to "doom the movie to be the final TNG show". So Nemesis was made with the expectation that they will get at least one more movie. However there are two problems with that: ST X didn't start as TNG movie, and someone saw that rough cut and still thought it would be a hit.
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Oct 25, 2023 06:37
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