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Der Kyhe posted:So Nemesis was made with the expectation that they will get at least one more movie. However there are two problems with that: ST X didn't start as TNG movie, and someone saw that rough cut and still thought it would be a hit. What? Yes, it absolutely did. If you're thinking of Star Trek: The Beginning, by Berman and Erik Jendresen, which would have covered the buildup to the Romulan War, that came up in 2005, following the cancellation of Enterprise. (The script was also so bad that it resulted in Berman being removed from his position as god king of Trek.)
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Oct 25, 2023 07:11
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For some reason seeing the TNG movies referred to as ST# really weirds me out, it seems quite rare.
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Oct 25, 2023 07:13
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Boxturret posted:For some reason seeing the TNG movies referred to as ST# really weirds me out, it seems quite rare. Beyond is ST13.
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Oct 25, 2023 07:17
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Boxturret posted:For some reason seeing the TNG movies referred to as ST# really weirds me out, it seems quite rare. I've seen it a couple of times and I'm trying to think of the larger context, but I think it's usually when discussing like sets of movies. Definitely feels weird to me as well because I don't remember any marketing for Generations or later that called them "Star Trek VII" or "Star Trek VIII" etc. I'm watching Search for Spock tonight. It's $0.20 cheaper to rent on Amazon than TMP! Savings.
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Oct 25, 2023 08:08
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Timby posted:What? Yes, it absolutely did. Probably, I am referring to Scott Bakula once saying in interview that he was expecting an ENT movie to start shoot in near future, and then the next thing we got was Nemesis.
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Oct 25, 2023 08:15
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Der Kyhe posted:Probably, I am referring to Scott Bakula once saying in interview that he was expecting an ENT movie to start shoot in near future, and then the next thing we got was Nemesis. Your timeline is probably off, since Nemesis began filming literally two months after Enterprise's first season premiered, and development started two years before that (with Spiner making the demand, a few days after Insurrection premiered, that he'd only do a fourth TNG movie if he had the same level of creative control that Stewart had had on Insurrection). Bakula began campaigning for an Enterprise movie once it dodged cancellation after season 3 by the skin of its teeth (and it was made clear, in no uncertain terms, to the cast and crew that the fourth season was going to be the last), but that was in 2004 and 2005, two to three years after Nemesis bombed in theaters. Timby fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Oct 25, 2023 |
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Oct 25, 2023 08:20
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mllaneza posted:I'd consider rewatching S1 and S3 of Picard with someone who hadn't seen them, maaaaaaaaaaybe S2 if they're big Borg Queen fans. Both seasons have some very good stuff in them, it's just that in S1 all those cool plot threads go nowhere and it ends badly, and in S3 the good stuff is connected by some abysmally stupid parts. I legitimately don't see myself ever going back and watching any of Picard's 30 episodes again at all. When it looked like Season 3 had turned the corner on the show, I started watching it with a buddy and we went on the journey together of seeing it slowly slide off the quality cliff, do the Wile E. Coyote bit where he hovers there in place for a second and tries not to look down at the open air beneath him, and then just plummet like a stone into a depth of insulting poo poo I don't think I've ever seen in a Trek show before and it turned into a comedy roast by the time we got to eps 8, 9 and 10.
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Oct 25, 2023 08:59
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nine-gear crow posted:I legitimately don't see myself ever going back and watching any of Picard's 30 episodes again at all. When it looked like Season 3 had turned the corner on the show, I started watching it with a buddy and we went on the journey together of seeing it slowly slide off the quality cliff, do the Wile E. Coyote bit where he hovers there in place for a second and tries not to look down at the open air beneath him, and then just plummet like a stone into a depth of insulting poo poo I don't think I've ever seen in a Trek show before and it turned into a comedy roast by the time we got to eps 8, 9 and 10. Picard in its entirety, along with Nemesis, and probably about half of both Voyager and Enterprise and 95 percent of Discovery, is Trek that I'm perfectly comfortable never watching again.
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Oct 25, 2023 09:04
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Nemesis just failed to draw people in. In the (packed) theater where I watched it, someone loudly made a joke about car insurance after the ramming scene and the whole theater laughed. These few sentences caught my eye when I was doubling check the plot summary on memory alpha. quote:On the Scimitar, Picard heads toward the bridge, shooting any Reman he comes across. Upon reaching the bridge, Picard destroys the door and begins firing at any and all Remans on the bridge. One Reman gets close to him; he beats the Reman with his phaser rifle,
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Oct 25, 2023 11:02
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Seemlar posted:Berman vetoed them having an exchange between Picard and Worf talking about the loss of his wife because that would confuse audiences, so there being any mention of the war at all was a concession What is it about genre fiction that turns people into drooling idiots about basic storytelling conventions? Worf talking about something that happened in his recent past isn't going to confuse the audience, they would be learning about along with Picard... unless Berman intended for it to be a lovely toss-off one-liner like the explanation of how he showed up on the Enterprise in the first place.
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Oct 25, 2023 11:38
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So with that I assume the logic was that it would be extraneous information that he thought the audience being familiar with Wolf by the previous films, might think needs following up, or show in any sort of character development he has in this film -lol- then it's just not making it feel like a lose plot thread. And honestly there's sorta a point to that. That a major life thing for wolf and in such a slow film you would think that other characters would you know check in on him, or something. Bring it up in conversation again? I dunno. It's not exactly the type of film where there's so much happening that it wouldn't be brought up again. While most of Berman's decisions were horrible, I sorta get that. Also I can see Wolf just not bring it up. But yeah Wolf bring it up shows character growth, and would of been a good scene. It was still the wrong decision.
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Oct 25, 2023 11:53
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dr_rat posted:So with that I assume the logic was that it would be extraneous information that he thought the audience being familiar with Wolf by the previous films, might think needs following up, or show in any sort of character development he has in this film -lol- then it's just not making it feel like a lose plot thread. Replacing Worf with a Wolf would spice Insurrection up, you're right.
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Oct 25, 2023 12:17
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Nemesis just failed to draw people in. In the (packed) theater where I watched it, someone loudly made a joke about car insurance after the ramming scene and the whole theater laughed. Afterwards, despite the urgency of the situation, Captain Picard bursts into the Scimitar's Reman Daycare Center and just unloads on the helpless Reman women and children
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Oct 25, 2023 12:21
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davidspackage posted:Afterwards, despite the urgency of the situation, Captain Picard bursts into the Scimitar's Reman Daycare Center and just unloads on the helpless Reman women and children I also really don't get what the point of taking civilians for hostages and transfering them to Ent-E black site "for enhanced interrogation" that was added back to the novelization was. I mean you already are onboard the superweapon that your nemesis operates, you don't need extra information and I don't think torturing random civilians makes you look like the hero of the movie.
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Oct 25, 2023 12:28
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What's weird about the Remans is that everything about them seems designed to make them sympathetic. They're enslaved by the Romulans, Star Trek's oldest recurring villains. They're kind enough to take in baby Shinzon when he's dumped in the mines, and accept him as one of their own. They're not even responsible for killing the Romulan Senate, that's done by another Romulan. But hey, they're ugly, so they must be orcs to be slaughtered by the heroes.
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Oct 25, 2023 12:49
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Der Kyhe posted:I also really don't get what the point of taking civilians for hostages and transfering them to Ent-E black site "for enhanced interrogation" that was added back to the novelization was. I mean you already are onboard the superweapon that your nemesis operates, you don't need extra information and I don't think torturing random civilians makes you look like the hero of the movie. wait the novelization suggests there's official torture chambers on the E? what the gently caress series did people think they were writing for, 24? that's not star trek
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Oct 25, 2023 12:53
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Arivia posted:wait the novelization suggests there's official torture chambers on the E? what the gently caress series did people think they were writing for, 24? that's not star trek Relax, its a joke. Like the "gunning down civilians at the daycare center" I replied to ... I hope. I have only seen the original cut of the Nemesis. 
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Oct 25, 2023 13:24
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The Voyage Home is a rare example, maybe the only one in filmdom, of time travel being pulled off without any apparent ill effects. Even with Spock's memory problems they travel through time so efficiently that they return at almost the exact instant they left.
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Oct 25, 2023 13:32
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Angry Salami posted:What's weird about the Remans is that everything about them seems designed to make them sympathetic. They're enslaved by the Romulans, Star Trek's oldest recurring villains. They're kind enough to take in baby Shinzon when he's dumped in the mines, and accept him as one of their own. They're not even responsible for killing the Romulan Senate, that's done by another Romulan. That's an amazing observation and sort of sat at the back of my mind as an uneasy itch throughout the movie, a thought I couldn't quite form. It's a bit poorly thought out.
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Oct 25, 2023 13:35
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:The Voyage Home is a rare example, maybe the only one in filmdom, of time travel being pulled off without any apparent ill effects. Even with Spock's memory problems they travel through time so efficiently that they return at almost the exact instant they left. The ill effects are frontloaded, they warp in through the giant stone head ketamine dimension.
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Oct 25, 2023 14:00
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MuddyFunster posted:That's an amazing observation and sort of sat at the back of my mind as an uneasy itch throughout the movie, a thought I couldn't quite form. It's a bit poorly thought out. Oh I don't know, I think there was some element of intentionality there, even if it wasn't necessarily conscious. It was 2003, after all, and US culture was even less sympathetic towards the Other than it usually is
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Oct 25, 2023 14:24
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dr_rat posted:But yeah Wolf bring it up shows character growth, and would of been a good scene. It was still the wrong decision.  (perhaps the most generous use of "honourable death" ever)
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Oct 25, 2023 15:04
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Barry Foster posted:Oh I don't know, I think there was some element of intentionality there, even if it wasn't necessarily conscious. It was 2003, after all, and US culture was even less sympathetic towards the Other than it usually is Didn't Enterprise have some queasy post 9/11 allusions? Until doing TNG, I think that's the only non-TOS Trek I ever watched, even then not regularly. I just remember it as a grim, grey smear, punctuated by blue-lit sexy oily rubdown scenes.
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Oct 25, 2023 15:05
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MuddyFunster posted:Didn't Enterprise have some queasy post 9/11 allusions? Until doing TNG, I think that's the only non-TOS Trek I ever watched, even then not regularly. I just remember it as a grim, grey smear, punctuated by blue-lit sexy oily rubdown scenes. Season 3 of Enterprise is an insanely unsubtle 9/11 allusion, yes
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Oct 25, 2023 15:07
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MuddyFunster posted:Didn't Enterprise have some queasy post 9/11 allusions? Until doing TNG, I think that's the only non-TOS Trek I ever watched, even then not regularly. I just remember it as a grim, grey smear, punctuated by blue-lit sexy oily rubdown scenes. The first set of villains are shadowy resentment filled terrorists called the Suliban. Then 9/11 happened, so they decided to switch tacks and go full War on Terror, complete with grim and gritty torture in the space middle east and aliens blasting the poo poo out of Florida
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Oct 25, 2023 15:08
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skasion posted:aliens blasting the poo poo out of Florida Eh, nothing of value lost there.
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Oct 25, 2023 15:10
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I love the Xindi took the Futurama 'I'll rob this bank a little as a warm up' stance on blowing up Earth, rather than just turning up with the completed doomsday weapon a year later. Very gracious of them
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Oct 25, 2023 15:11
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No Dignity posted:I love the Xindi took the Futurama 'I'll rob this bank a little as a warm up' stance on blowing up Earth, rather than just turning up with the completed doomsday weapon a year later. Very gracious of them Worked for the US in WW2.
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Oct 25, 2023 15:12
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Arivia posted:Worked for the US in WW2. It works if you think or know that your enemy can't or won't be able to respond. The US nuisance raid against Japan was couched in the knowledge that Japan did not possess the ability to respond and would be compelled to prevent any future raids for propaganda reasons. Conversely, the Xindi did not anticipate Earth's response to the Florida attack. Rather than pull back and attempt to defend (see the German High Seas Fleet), it was like if someone told the Imperial Japan Army about the Manhattan Project, so they piled in a van and drove across the country to blow up Oak Ridge.
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Oct 25, 2023 15:20
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I much prefer TMP to 2001.
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Oct 25, 2023 15:26
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Look they took out Earth massive surplus of Gators. If you have reason to think your enemy might drop a whole bunch of gators on your planet this is a very sensible attack. (have to assume they didn't know we still had a surplus of crocodiles. The preferable animal to drop on a planet if you want a quick surrender.)
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Oct 25, 2023 15:30
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Seemlar posted:
Funny because there’s a whole episode in DS9 where Worf is distraught that she’s not in Stovokor
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Oct 25, 2023 15:33
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Worf retroactively gave her an 'honourable death' with the shipyard attack so now he gets to tell everyone she had one.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Oct 25, 2023 |
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Oct 25, 2023 15:42
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The logic of the Xindi test only works if they assume Earth was already gunning for them 100%, so it didn't matter if they pissed Earth off. Even then it's weak. At least we got Bug Queen Archer out of it
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Oct 25, 2023 15:57
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I love how, even for idiot Berman, this is just immediately and transparently stupid. In what world is, "whoa, Worf is on the other Star Trek show and had a wife? I should check that out," or even, "I don't watch DS9, so I guess that happened there, OK," a less likely audience response than "Wife? I am too confused and the movie is now ruined."
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Oct 25, 2023 16:16
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It's always relevant to put on a Mr. Plinkett voice and go, "gently caress you, Rick Berman. You ruined this, too?"
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Oct 25, 2023 16:26
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MikeJF posted:Worf retroactively gave her an 'honourable death' with the shipyard attack so now he gets to tell everyone she had one. Oh so Klingons are like Mormons
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Oct 25, 2023 16:47
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skasion posted:The first set of villains are shadowy resentment filled terrorists called the Suliban. Then 9/11 happened, so they decided to switch tacks and go full War on Terror, complete with grim and gritty torture in the space middle east and aliens blasting the poo poo out of Florida And in going full War on Terror they also pretty much ignored the Suliban for the rest of the show lol Soul Dentist fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Oct 25, 2023 |
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Oct 25, 2023 16:48
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Soul Dentist posted:And in going full War on Terror they also pretty much ignored the Sullivan for the rest of the show lol Hey, the Suliban leader showed up in the two-parter where Enterprise time travels to fight alien time travelling Nazis!
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Oct 25, 2023 17:05
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I like that they filmed some quite good scenes for the wedding and then didn't use any of them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgQf0P47VHY
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Oct 25, 2023 17:21
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