(Thread IKs:
fatherboxx)
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https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1716922861338947963#m Absolutely no trouble with manpower why do you ask
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Oct 25, 2023 01:10
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saratoga posted:https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1716922861338947963#m Look there's no reason to have a submarine here, so why have submariners?
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Oct 25, 2023 03:52
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Ships keep exploding and they need to send them somewhere 
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Oct 25, 2023 05:18
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saratoga posted:https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1716922861338947963#m well, if they don't have any more ships and can't afford to build new ones, then they don't need all those sailors. and they still need infantry, so using sailors in that role isn't idiotic. both nazis and soviets used their former sailors as infantry for this same reason in ww2. of course if the sailors were properly trained for their new role they would be more useful, but so far everyone who has used sailor infantry has used them as shittily trained stopgap forces who have suffered huge casualties. e: brits had a division of them too in ww1. they were gathered mainly from the naval reserves
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Oct 25, 2023 15:33
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I think it might have something to do with the 155th getting destroyed two or three times...
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Oct 25, 2023 15:40
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OddObserver posted:I think it might have something to do with the 155th getting destroyed two or three times... 155th_final_copy (2)
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Oct 25, 2023 16:03
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Ukraine needs to stop breaking Russian ships so that the 155th brigade can't get reinforced
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Oct 25, 2023 16:08
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Jests aside, the VDV and Naval Infantry units do seem to have been able to regenerate combat power more effectively than motorized rifle regiments. This actually has some implications for Western planning. The conventional wisdom that you see in e.g. video games is that adding replacements to experienced, attritted units results in the experience levels averaging out. E.g. If a unit has 50 veterans with "100 experience" and you add 50 replacements with "20 experience", you get a unit with "60 experience". That doesn't seem to hold true here, though: some Russian units are consistently demonstrating they can get replacements to perform more effectively than others. If the West gets into a hot war with e.g. China, or Iran, or "separatists in Georgia" or wherever, and sustains heavy losses, we may find that prioritizing certain units for replenishment makes a lot of sense.
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Oct 25, 2023 16:31
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The marines being drawn from sailors isn't new, it's like Napoleon-era that's just kept going.
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Oct 25, 2023 16:52
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Ynglaur posted:Jests aside, the VDV and Naval Infantry units do seem to have been able to regenerate combat power more effectively than motorized rifle regiments. This actually has some implications for Western planning. The conventional wisdom that you see in e.g. video games is that adding replacements to experienced, attritted units results in the experience levels averaging out. E.g. If a unit has 50 veterans with "100 experience" and you add 50 replacements with "20 experience", you get a unit with "60 experience". That doesn't seem to hold true here, though: some Russian units are consistently demonstrating they can get replacements to perform more effectively than others. It's not anything special about these units, it's their recruiting policy. They get to pull from the pool of able seamen, who are already military adapted. Everyone else is getting raw recruits and conscripts. The Naval infantry have a lot of currently surplus boat guys to recruit from, but that's not infinite. Not a huge pool, though it does act as a permeant adaptation buffer which the rest of the Russian army lacks. The US has been getting better about making sure frontline units are adapted in advance and are much more aggressive about unit rotation. Barrel Cactaur fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Oct 25, 2023 |
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Oct 25, 2023 17:22
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Barrel Cactaur posted:It's not anything special about these units, it's their recruiting policy. They get to pull from the pool of able seamen, who are already military adapted. Everyone else is getting raw recruits and conscripts. The Naval infantry have a lot of currently surplus boat guys to recruit from, but that's not infinite. Not a huge pool, though it does act as a permeant adaptation buffer which the rest of the Russian army lacks. The Naval Infantry does, and I assume the VDV gets to pick from a subset of recruits as well. It certainly helps to start with better recruits, but we shouldn't assume away the possibility that these units are also just better at training. That's good to hear re: the US.
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Oct 25, 2023 18:43
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Wait, what rousing successes have the 155th had that means we're framing them as more effective than the average mobik? Honest question.
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Oct 25, 2023 19:20
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Kennedy posted:Wait, what rousing successes have the 155th had that means we're framing them as more effective than the average mobik? Honest question. They fought effectively at Mariupol in early 2022, on the defensive during the Kherson offensive later in 2022, and as an operational reserve in the Zaporizhzhia in 2023. My impressions are anecdotally-informed, general, and not at all data-driven, so I wouldn't draw any hard conclusions from it other than, "This is probably worth looking at if you're in a job that requires thinking about force reconstitution."
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Oct 25, 2023 19:42
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Great video on how hard it is to demine using combat vehicles directly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGDUgxQyVWc Goes over the reasons they're not very effective except in ideal circumstances.
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Oct 25, 2023 19:49
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The Russian military still uses the VDV and naval infantry to lead assaults and shore up defensive positions in hot air areas of the front. Which is basically how you'd expect any military in the world to delegate responsibilities to its "elite" infantry units. It's going to be hard to find any other objective measure of a unit's quality, especially since the war has basically been a stalemate for a year.
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Oct 25, 2023 19:52
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adebisi lives posted:The Russian military still uses the VDV and naval infantry to lead assaults and shore up defensive positions in hot air areas of the front. Which is basically how you'd expect any military in the world to delegate responsibilities to its "elite" infantry units. It's going to be hard to find any other objective measure of a unit's quality, especially since the war has basically been a stalemate for a year. no, forces like that shouldn't be used for the largest death toll causing places, but instead for special operations that normal infantry isn't trained for.
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Oct 25, 2023 20:00
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adebisi lives posted:The Russian military still uses the VDV and naval infantry to lead assaults and shore up defensive positions in hot air areas of the front. Which is basically how you'd expect any military in the world to delegate responsibilities to its "elite" infantry units. It's going to be hard to find any other objective measure of a unit's quality, especially since the war has basically been a stalemate for a year. But also they have been using prisoners for the same purpose (Wagner, Shtorm Z), and haven't been able to advance in Bakhmut or Avdiivka.
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Oct 25, 2023 20:00
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ChubbyChecker posted:no, forces like that shouldn't be used for the largest death toll causing places, but instead for special operations that normal infantry isn't trained for. This is like saying "the US Marines shouldn't be used to fight in Fallujah". They're combat units, not special forces.
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Oct 25, 2023 20:04
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Just one more brigade bro just one more will get it bro come on just one more bro
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Oct 25, 2023 20:05
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Nenonen posted:This is like saying "the US Marines shouldn't be used to fight in Fallujah". They're combat units, not special forces. nah us isn't suffering from a lack of marines but russia didn't have many troops that were trained for amphibious operations, and now they jack all because they were spent on normal infantry stuff
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Oct 25, 2023 20:45
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ChubbyChecker posted:nah Russia's not suffering a lack of marines either
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Oct 25, 2023 21:19
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ChubbyChecker posted:no, forces like that shouldn't be used for the largest death toll causing places, but instead for special operations that normal infantry isn't trained for. This is incredibly wrong. Specialized light infantry are not special forces, they are high-quality line infantry. They are frequently sent to the highest causality-causing locations because those are the locations where high-quality infantry can make the most difference. That's what being the tip of the spear means. Being the best at "normal infantry stuff" is what those units do far more than amphibious landings or airborne insertions, and Russia needs high-quality infantry far more than they need amphibious capabilities right now.
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Oct 25, 2023 21:23
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Russia's not suffering a lack of marines either they may have people that are marines on paper, but those units have been destroyed and recreated so many times during this 3 day special military operation that they are now resorting to using submariners untrained for land warfare and since this is the modern day russia, they may not have been even trained to operate submarines either
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Oct 25, 2023 21:29
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ChubbyChecker posted:they may have people that are marines on paper, but those units have been destroyed and recreated so many times during this 3 day special military operation that they are now resorting to using submariners untrained for land warfare There's up to 52 submariners that have taken at least the basic training and don't have a submarine anymore. Can't give them a spare submarine because the Black Sea is a closed lake so how would you utilize them?
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Oct 25, 2023 21:39
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saratoga posted:Great video on how hard it is to demine using combat vehicles directly: The American one looks extremely handy. Ukraine is going to have an iron harvest for the next century. 
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Oct 25, 2023 21:49
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Nenonen posted:There's up to 52 submariners that have taken at least the basic training and don't have a submarine anymore. Can't give them a spare submarine because the Black Sea is a closed lake so how would you utilize them? Maybe doing rear echelon stuff to free up soldiers who are actually trained for ground combat. This is Russia though so trained is probably asking for a lot
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Oct 25, 2023 21:51
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Scratch Monkey posted:Maybe doing rear echelon stuff to free up soldiers who are actually trained for ground combat. This is Russia though so trained is probably asking for a lot Sure, but if the navy needs to name an experienced officer or NCO to replace losses in naval infantry and if they don't have dozens of them to choose from and can't solve it just by promoting corporals into captains... It's just one scenario among others. And we don't even know if the source is reliable, mind you.
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Oct 25, 2023 22:03
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Just Another Lurker posted:The American one looks extremely handy. Unless they undergo UXO removal on a scale never before seen its likely going to be more like several hundred years. I've worked in places where UXO is purposefully brought to be destroyed and they have UXO issues.
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Oct 25, 2023 23:25
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Just Another Lurker posted:The American one looks extremely handy. For its intended role, the Assault Breach Vehicle (ABV) is amazing! Having 2 MICLICs plus the plow, PLUS a lane marking system makes it an all in one package. A U.S. ABCT will have 4-12 depending on how it gets resourced for a breach mission. The issue is, it depends on doctrine that assumes a 200-300m depth minefield, and enough vehicles to breach multiple lanes. The reality we are seeing is that of kilometer deep minefields that would take the resources of an entire division to breach. We generally plan to have 4 contingencies for each breach, from ABV to plow to roller to some poor dude with a handheld detector. But even that won't cut it compared to what is in Ukraine. Also, minor quibble with the video: Guy states that the follow on forces are following up slowly as the vehicle breaches the minefield. That generally isn't the case. The follow on forces stay well back behind the support by fire elements and only move forward when the breach is complete. A much smaller security element stays with the breaching force. The video was pretty drat good though.
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Oct 25, 2023 23:58
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pray for steve's stomach https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhZXYulcWiU
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Oct 26, 2023 00:19
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Russians doubling down on Avdiivka, throwing more and more forces into the fight: https://twitter.com/Tatarigami_UA/status/1717299081066750217 Dara Massicott's perspective from the other day seems apt: https://twitter.com/MassDara/status/1716520911472398365
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Oct 26, 2023 01:25
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Nenonen posted:There's up to 52 submariners that have taken at least the basic training and don't have a submarine anymore. Can't give them a spare submarine because the Black Sea is a closed lake so how would you utilize them? This deploying of random people from other services to the front started in like summer of 22. The reason is that there are people in Russian uniform who are not legally deployable, and ones who stupidly signed contracts that made them deployable. When they had a crunch on manpower after the initial push, they started pulling people with deployable contracts to the front, regardless of what jobs they were doing before it. Which is why Ukraine has taken people from submarines and from the strategic forces as pows.
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Oct 26, 2023 01:31
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Looks like Caliber Obscura is throwing in the towel. If you don't know who CO is, they have been doing OSINT arms research for years in Iraq, Africa, Ukraine, and most recently Gaza and Israel. It sounds like things gotten too hectic and this is basically an uncompensated volunteer work, especially for something that requires them to typically require them to be exposed to grisly after-action photos, it's no doubt something that someone shouldn't be exposed to for long. Also, it sounds like the Twitter's imploding and prompting misinformation is taking its toll on legitimate open intelligence attempts. https://x.com/CalibreObscura/status/1717265873298211319?s=20 https://x.com/CalibreObscura/status/1717265877735723462?s=20 https://x.com/CalibreObscura/status/1717265881917493412?s=20 https://x.com/CalibreObscura/status/1717265886057275729?s=20
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Oct 26, 2023 04:54
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LifeSunDeath posted:pray for steve's stomach That ration looked surprisingly good, for one that is supposedly handed out the prisoners.
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Oct 26, 2023 05:51
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This was apparently a ration for use when being transported. I wonder what the actual prison food is like
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Oct 26, 2023 12:07
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Scratch Monkey posted:This was apparently a ration for use when being transported. I wonder what the actual prison food is like Buckwheat kasha, dark bread, thin broth, dubious meat, black tea. Maybe fish. Fish is good. You can tell it's fish, unlike the rest of the meat, which could be anything.
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Oct 26, 2023 13:24
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https://twitter.com/joeygarrison/status/1717599382843851190?t=xspvnYDE9luYInPVjcJuoRXcj2tly5z8qrCbDNTfLPs&s=19 This is my surprised face.
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Oct 26, 2023 19:14
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so lining them up and shooting them themselves or doing it the way they've been doing it since the start by sending them to die in the meat grinder of the day?
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Oct 26, 2023 19:17
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Scratch Monkey posted:so lining them up and shooting them themselves or doing it the way they've been doing it since the start by sending them to die in the meat grinder of the day? My guess is they're doing the line up and execute thing to the ones that refuse the being sent to charge fortified positions bit. I hope Ukraine is still doing those "call this number to arrange a surrender" flyers. Bremen fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Oct 26, 2023 |
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Oct 26, 2023 19:19
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 09:07 |
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Scratch Monkey posted:so lining them up and shooting them themselves or doing it the way they've been doing it since the start by sending them to die in the meat grinder of the day? Execution has a pretty specific meaning/context and if they talking about purposeful suicide missions I would imagine they would just say that.
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Oct 26, 2023 19:23
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