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Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

Thank U for reading

If you hated it...
FUCK U and never come back

orangelex44 posted:

Paradox is in a weird place where they actually haven't made many good games versus how their reputation makes them out. They've certainly made interesting ones, but one could argue that the only truly great games they've ever released are CKII and HOI4, with EU4 and Stellaris in a tier just below that (depending on how much credit you give for later development fixing early fuckups). Anyone who argues that their earlier games were great has a bad case of nostalgia, they were riddled with significant bugs and even worse UI jank than today. As a publisher their track record might actually be worse than as a developer, the lineup is hard-carried by Cities: Skylines followed by some fun-yet-flawed entries including Magicka, Age of Wonders, Mount and Blade (who knew?), Majesty, and Surviving Mars. If you ever actually check their wiki page there are tons of instantly forgettable and/or outright rancid entries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Paradox_Interactive_games).

That said, I don't see Paradox as a villain per se. They're a midsize publisher that focuses on the less popular genres, so they've needed to make some questionable decisions just to survive. Frankly it's stunning that they've managed to make it at all. They're no EA or Sega, but they're also not your friendly indie dev who'll answer direct emails with a new patch addressing things either. Overall, I think it's a good thing they exist. Someone's gotta forge a path in the middle between the big evil giants and the downtrodden indies, and we could have done worse than the Paradox model.

the number of developers making even decent games in the 4X and grand strategy genres isn't especially high

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Dallan Invictus
Oct 11, 2007

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

Vizuyos posted:

the number of developers making even decent games in the 4X and grand strategy genres isn't especially high

that sounds like something a map-poisoned politicscel would say

Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010

Vizuyos posted:

the number of developers making even decent games in the 4X and grand strategy genres isn't especially high

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

orangelex44 posted:

They've certainly made interesting ones,

How many publishers can make that claim nowadays?

Megasabin
Sep 9, 2003

I get half!!
Hexarchy just launched. Anyone have opinions on it? Specifically how it is in human vs human multiplayer?

Lowen
Mar 16, 2007

Adorable.

Megasabin posted:

Hexarchy just launched. Anyone have opinions on it? Specifically how it is in human vs human multiplayer?

It's good. I just jumped into a random match with 5 players, 4 human and one bot.
There's a fairly aggressive turn timer to keep the total length down and it felt really frantic.
I ran out of time a bunch of turns but still managed to pull from 4th to 2nd to 1st just in time to not lose to my neighbor who was really close to 100 points.
There's no diplomacy, you're at war with everyone all the time.
If you hate time pressure and war war war gameplay you probably won't like multiplayer.

Tree Bucket
Apr 1, 2016

R.I.P.idura leucophrys

Jack Trades posted:

I just learned that Endless Space 2 is currently beta testing a patch that overhauls the absolutely game ruining DLC from 4 years ago.

Good on them. I really like ES2.

Do you mean that terrible, terrible espionage dlc? That thing was rancid.

e: nope, just checked, it's the one that makes the Academy into its own faction (that inexplicably snaffles up all the best star systems with indestructible murderfleets)

Tree Bucket fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Oct 20, 2023

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014


Where did GalCiv IV end up? I never touched III, and I'm in this weird place where I loved 2, so my brain is going "It's GalCiv and doesn't suck, you will like it," but MoO and GalCiv were so influential to the early 4x landscape that I've got the feeling that even good, modern GalCiv won't feel as engaging as Endless/Stellaris/DW2.

Microplastics
Jul 6, 2007

:discourse:
It's what's for dinner.
For some reason I can never get into space 4Xs.

I like Stellaris a lot but still couldn't get into it. I think it's the lack of terrain. I enjoy terrain too much and there's just not much scope for anything equivalent in space 4Xs. For me, terrain is a huge part of what makes a game interesting.

Anyway, despite never getting into 4Xs I still have a weird interest in them, in how various mechanics have been designed and implemented, and how they play.

With that in mind I'm wondering if anyone can recommend a good youtube series for MOO1 and MOO2 - games which I'll probably never play but could still enjoy watching someone else play.

For reference I've been really, really enjoying Many A True Nerd's playthrough of Total War: Rome, because he knows that game inside out and can explain all the different mechanics very well (and how to cheese them). And he exudes such a passion for the game.

(incidentally, that's another game I know I'll never play because I'm not a fan of that kind of tactical combat - I'm much more at home on the strategic level managing the empire)

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


Wait -- I haven't even voted in this game yet!

Terrain is why Stellaris went from three FTL drive types to one. With just hyperlanes, the shape of the galaxy and your local cluster actually matters. Chokepoints are important both in exploration and combat. There's also things like nebulae that strip shields and black holes that make retreating much harder. And, while the base game is pretty bland and boring with planet modifiers, if you install Guilli's Planet Modifiers, you'll have reasons to fight over individual planets aside from habitability.

EDIT: That's not to say that it's as in-depth as a Total War game's terrain or anything. I can totally understand your issue--it's the same one I have with Super Robot Wars despite loving the concept. Most maps, especially in space, are just wide open with no terrain worth mentioning, and it makes everything feel samey to me.

Zurai fucked around with this message at 10:32 on Oct 21, 2023

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸
One of the reasons I love planetary annihilation is because there's the local terrain and then the "terrain" of the solar system layouts. And then you hit the terrain with the other terrain.

Speaking of, any thoughts on the new factory builder rts they're doing? Not sure if it counts as a 4x.

Joe Chill
Mar 21, 2013

"What's this dance called?"

"'Radioactive Flesh.' It's the latest - and the last!"

Microplastics posted:

With that in mind I'm wondering if anyone can recommend a good youtube series for MOO1 and MOO2 - games which I'll probably never play but could still enjoy watching someone else play.

Checkout youTuber Sullla and his plays of MOO1.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Omi no Kami posted:

Where did GalCiv IV end up? I never touched III, and I'm in this weird place where I loved 2, so my brain is going "It's GalCiv and doesn't suck, you will like it," but MoO and GalCiv were so influential to the early 4x landscape that I've got the feeling that even good, modern GalCiv won't feel as engaging as Endless/Stellaris/DW2.

I played the hell out of the first two games, but GalCiv 3 let me bounce off so hard, I'm not really interested in GalCiv 4 anymore.

My main problem with the third game was the ship designer: Yes, I love ship designers, I can spend hours making new ship classes, and GalCiv 3 managed to create one I didn't like.

Now I'm too scared to touch the fourth game, because it's unlikely they changed it.

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

I remember GalCiv2 being about stacking as much miniaturization tech as humanly possible, then fill your ships with those little hit point boosters and two types of guns.

That or making ships tailored against weapon type A, selling them to everyone else, then use that money to build ships with weapon type B and roll over your former customers.

I really liked the last part, but miniaturization seemed really overpowered.

Helion
Apr 28, 2008
Galciv 4 makes a great first impression, I’ll give it that. I love the bright use of color, and I really enjoy the distinct alien animations at the selection screen. It looks like there’s a fair bit of variability there - I’d love to see wilder asymmetry, but there’s a good balance between genuinely different factions and +X/-Y variants.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

THE BAR posted:

I remember GalCiv2 being about stacking as much miniaturization tech as humanly possible, then fill your ships with those little hit point boosters and two types of guns.

That or making ships tailored against weapon type A, selling them to everyone else, then use that money to build ships with weapon type B and roll over your former customers.

I really liked the last part, but miniaturization seemed really overpowered.

What I remember doing in GalCiv 2 was building as many cultural stations as possible, expanding by essentially making enemy worlds defect to me. My fleets in comparison, were just made of lots of cheap and lovely ships.



Helion posted:

Galciv 4 makes a great first impression, I’ll give it that. I love the bright use of color, and I really enjoy the distinct alien animations at the selection screen. It looks like there’s a fair bit of variability there - I’d love to see wilder asymmetry, but there’s a good balance between genuinely different factions and +X/-Y variants.

I watched a YouTuber playing GalCiv 4 and it looked nice, but after the frustration the GalCiv 3 ship designer caused me, I'll stay the hell away until I get it confirmed that the fiddly "mashing 3D-parts like LEGO"-part of the designer is gone.

PhantomZero
Sep 7, 2007
I feel like GalCiv 4 fixed a lot of complaints I had with GalCiv 3. Mainly all the tediousness involved:
You no longer have to build tiles on every single planet, you only need to do that for core worlds and you don't even need to make every 10+ planet a core world
Dont need to manage fleets of constructors to upgrade starbases
You don't have to place ship components manually, but you can still customize your ships if you want


However GalCiv 4 comes with new complaints:
It is a little hard to understand the victory conditions and how close each civilization is to achieving it
There is no way to examine your own civilization's bonuses after the game as started, like clicking on your own civ in Civ 6
I'm not sure the point behind loyalty and leaders, the loyalty doesn't change much and it seems useless. Just buy the high loyalty leaders and never worry about it
The populations on planets goes into too much detail. I shouldn't have to consider the stats of each pop before specializing one into a scientist or laborer

Some of the complaints stay the same:
If you are too slow exploring and expanding, the AI will snipe resources and planets along your borders it may have a hard time defending in a fight or resisting your influence
AI seems to know where all the best poo poo is without needing to explore

Overall, I think it is a solid sequel for the franchise. Ship designer is a little disappointing.

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

Libluini posted:

What I remember doing in GalCiv 2 was building as many cultural stations as possible, expanding by essentially making enemy worlds defect to me.

Oh yes, definitely. I also remember going Neutral over Evil/Good was ridiculously better, but not why.

HorseMorsel
Sep 8, 2023

THE BAR posted:

Oh yes, definitely. I also remember going Neutral over Evil/Good was ridiculously better, but not why.

I might be misremembering, but I thought Evil was far better in terms of event bonuses. Virtually none of the Evil choices gave you penalties. However, Good races would always start a righteous war with you. Neutral was mainly good for staying out of wars until you were ready to fight, so probably good for diplomatic/influential races.

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

HorseMorsel posted:

I might be misremembering, but I thought Evil was far better in terms of event bonuses. Virtually none of the Evil choices gave you penalties. However, Good races would always start a righteous war with you. Neutral was mainly good for staying out of wars until you were ready to fight, so probably good for diplomatic/influential races.

You had actual bonuses, when you built a Temple of Evil/Whatever. I think the neutral one cut the price of insta-building ships by 80% or something stupid like that.

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010
All I remember about GalCiv was that Brad Wardell was some kind of massive rear end in a top hat or borderline criminal. Don’t remember the specifics but I remember making the decision to never give him money.

Entorwellian
Jun 30, 2006

Northern Flicker
Anna's Hummingbird

Sorry, but the people have spoken.



Murgos posted:

All I remember about GalCiv was that Brad Wardell was some kind of massive rear end in a top hat or borderline criminal. Don’t remember the specifics but I remember making the decision to never give him money.

The former. He's a libertarian who would put bees on his staff as a joke and I think he said some bad stuff during the gamergate fiasco.

Tendales
Mar 9, 2012
Wardell brought his bees to work one day to prove that his employee's allergy was fake.

The Chad Jihad
Feb 24, 2007


He brought drones, specifically

uber_stoat
Jan 21, 2001



Pillbug
Wardell tried to literally steal the Star Control name and characters from the guys who created it.

i tried to find the photo of his car (porshe 911) parked across multiple parking spots including a handicapped one but i couldn't locate it.

i don't know how good Galciv 4 is and don't care.

Tendales
Mar 9, 2012
The Star Control guys, by the way, wrested control of Ur-Quan Masters back and made Brad give them his honey on top.

LordSloth
Mar 7, 2008

Disgruntled (IT) Employee
Article: https://www.pcgamesn.com/stardock-brad-wardell-interview

quote:

In December 2010, former Stardock employee Alexandra Miseta filed a lawsuit against Wardell alleging sexual harassment. In turn, Wardell had alleged that Miseta had stolen a laptop and deleted documents when she left the company. Both suits were dismissed in September 2013 in a settlement that came with conditions – one of which was that Miseta draft a letter of apology.

his blog’s about page posted:

Brad is also infamously opinionated on a wide range of topics. For instance, Brad has a special place in his gnarled heart for gamers. When copy protection was getting out of hand, Brad wrote the Gamers Bill of Rights and used Stardock’s Impulse digital distribution platform to help enforce these rights to discourage developers from treating gamers as thieves. Brad’s unapologetic support of gamers has also hurt his reputation in certain circles due to his support of #GamerGate’s stated goals of increasing transparency in game journalism, an area he feels has become excessively politicized. His views can be read here.

Fake edit: it’s best not to state my opinion on this especially when I’ve been drinking, so I’ll delete my rants to keep it short, coherent, and avoid any unintended hot takes from impaired brain skills. Brad’s an rear end, and the more you dig the more you hate yourself for not simply shoving him in a box and finding a better use for your time than giving him any of your time, energy, or money.

Thom12255
Feb 23, 2013
WHERE THE FUCK IS MY MONEY
Brad also tends to only take credit for the good part of games. While Gal Civ 4 was in development he kept crapping on Gal Civ 3 because he wasn't the lead designer of it. He's doing it again with Supernova by saying that he wasn't involved much with the first release of Gal Civ 4 even though leading up to the Epic release he was saying he was and how much better the game was going to be for it.

Lum_
Jun 5, 2006
I'm not sure whether it was either GalCiv 2 or 3 that had the completely broken economy because Wardell decided to make higher tax rates give you less money because lol libertarianism.

Anyway he was also a massive jerk during GG (he sic'd a mob on me when I attracted his attention on Twitter, then threatened to sue me personally when a forum I ran posted a pic of his house) and the transcripts of his emails from the sexual harassment lawsuit paint a picture of a working environment so hostile Bobby Kotick would look at it and say "dude, ease up a bit".

quote:

#3, however is not acceptable to me. I am an inappropriate, sexist, vulgar, and embarrassing person and I’m not inclined to change my behavior. If this is a problem, you will need to find another job.

#4, Again, I am not willing to adapt my behavior to suit others. IF you find my behavior problematic, I recommend finding another job.

I’m not some manager or coworker of yours. I own the company. It, and your job here, exist to suit my purposes, not vice versa. The company is not an end unto itself, it is a means to an end which is to further the objectives of its shareholders (in this case, me).

so basically please don't give him money, most stardock games are really bad anyway

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011
It sucks that Sins of a Solar Empire is trapped in Stardock land, gently caress that motherfucker

ThatBasqueGuy
Feb 14, 2013

someone introduce jojo to lazyb


What a dick!!

BadOptics
Sep 11, 2012

Lum_ posted:

I'm not sure whether it was either GalCiv 2 or 3 that had the completely broken economy because Wardell decided to make higher tax rates give you less money because lol libertarianism.

Anyway he was also a massive jerk during GG (he sic'd a mob on me when I attracted his attention on Twitter, then threatened to sue me personally when a forum I ran posted a pic of his house) and the transcripts of his emails from the sexual harassment lawsuit paint a picture of a working environment so hostile Bobby Kotick would look at it and say "dude, ease up a bit".

so basically please don't give him money, most stardock games are really bad anyway

I know 1 & 2 made you lose money due to high taxes because your population (in these games that means taxpayers) would go Galt.

Best Friends
Nov 4, 2011

Lum_ posted:

I'm not sure whether it was either GalCiv 2 or 3 that had the completely broken economy because Wardell decided to make higher tax rates give you less money because lol libertarianism.


Also production does not come from people, it is purely a function of production buildings. People are only good for paying taxes and dying as infantry.

It’s the apotheosis of libertarian brain: stuff comes from capital with no human intermediation, like Athena from the forehead of Zeus.

RandomBlue
Dec 30, 2012

hay guys!


Biscuit Hider
The galciv series is just bad and boring and every iteration has had basically the same gameplay loop with slight changes and improved graphics.

Prism
Dec 22, 2007

yospos
Also ChatGPT factions, for when you want your random space civilizations to be even more random and bland.

https://www.galciv4.com/article/518406/galciv-iv-supernova-dev-journal-13---aliengpt
https://www.galciv4.com/article/520331/galciv-iv-supernova-dev-journal-20---how-people-use-aliengpt
https://forums.galciv4.com/522766/galciv-iv-supernova-dev-journal-26---the-animals-of-ai

Lum_
Jun 5, 2006

Prism posted:

Also ChatGPT factions, for when you want your random space civilizations to be even more random and bland.

This is literally Wardell trying to get out of paying game designers. (You can tell because he says "I'm not doing this to get out of paying game designers")

victrix
Oct 30, 2007



:chloe:

(really this is just a preview of what's happening across the entire industry right now, look forward to regurgitated ai content in your games)

lispy-goon
Jan 9, 2019

Oh God these look terrible. I hope this "trend" doesn't catch on...

...or at least, if it must, then I hope it will die quickly.

uber_stoat
Jan 21, 2001



Pillbug
to be honest AI generated text isn't much of a downgrade from the writing in previous stardock games.

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my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

uber_stoat posted:

to be honest AI generated text isn't much of a downgrade from the writing in previous stardock games.

This but for most 4x-y sci fi games, honestly.

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