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Desk Lamp posted:They're saying all of the Pixel 8 Pros AI wizardry is actually done on the cloud. If so, the chances of them coming to Google One subscribers just went up quite a bit. it's a mixture, the super fancy generative AI stuff runs on the cloud, but magic eraser, which ran on the cloud with an older pixel or non-pixel, runs locally instead on the pixel 8
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Oct 25, 2023 20:15
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Also, Video Boost (when it comes) requires data taken at capture time that only the GNV sensor can do. So that feature, at most, could only come downstream to the Pixel 8.
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Oct 25, 2023 20:39
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repiv posted:it's a mixture, the super fancy generative AI stuff runs on the cloud, but magic eraser, which ran on the cloud with an older pixel or non-pixel, runs locally instead on the pixel 8 So is that a Google Photos only feature? I hopped ship from most Google services a while ago but GrapheneOS still works great with the regular Play Store version of Camera. Would hate to have to use GPhotos again.
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Oct 25, 2023 21:25
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bull3964 posted:Apparently the Pixel 8 Pro display uses only 47% of the power as the Pixel 7 Pro display at the P7P's peak brightness. So is that a Samsung panel they've paid out the arse for or something Google developed?
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Oct 25, 2023 21:40
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5TonsOfFlax posted:I received a 20% off coupon for the pixel 8/pro in my email this morning. Worth pulling the trigger now, or is the consensus that black friday deals will still be better? I'm thinking black friday, because this coupon code expires mid November. all trade in values went down seemingly right after the deal ended. my pixel 6 pro was worth like 425 I think and now it's not even half that. also I'd gladly take that coupon if you're not gonna use it  my order got cancelled after a bunch of back and forth because apparently I went slightly over my 1000 limit with Google credit in trying to purchase the deal, and rather than tell me that was why, they kept moving the ship date out farther and farther and then telling me not to worry about it. so I'd be able to get the 8 pro after all if I had 20% off, as that would put the order + tax below 1000
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Oct 25, 2023 21:41
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WattsvilleBlues posted:So is that a Samsung panel they've paid out the arse for or something Google developed? It's a Samsung panel they paid out the arse for. I'm sure the S24U will have something similar. But this is a step in the right direction of Google talking their hardware seriously and optimizing around a premium components. That's the rub, people took Google to task for not using premium components. Then they use premium components and then everyone complains about price. Seems everyone wants a 5.8" triple camera phone with periscope zoom and a top of the line LTPO 3.0 panel for $599 if it has Pixel branding.
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Oct 25, 2023 22:00
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hark posted:all trade in values went down seemingly right after the deal ended. my pixel 6 pro was worth like 425 I think and now it's not even half that.
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Oct 25, 2023 22:02
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The Trade-In deals felt pretty bad for Pixel to Pixel upgrading. T-mobile was offering $400 for my Pixel 6 Pro, yet $800 for a Samsung S9 from 2018. I ended up just buying an S9 from Swappa for $100 and getting that $800 off.
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Oct 25, 2023 22:47
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repiv posted:it's a mixture, the super fancy generative AI stuff runs on the cloud, but magic eraser, which ran on the cloud with an older pixel or non-pixel, runs locally instead on the pixel 8 Both Google's and Samsung's magic erasers run locally on Galaxy phones. I'm guessing even Video Boost will be available on older phones.
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Oct 25, 2023 23:31
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My Pixel 8 Pro wouldn't let me use Magic Eraser until I "backed up" my image to the cloud.
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Oct 25, 2023 23:48
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Nalin posted:My Pixel 8 Pro wouldn't let me use Magic Eraser until I "backed up" my image to the cloud. Might be a restriction on the Pixel 8 Pro specifically so it can prime the image for all the other AI stuff in case you want to use it. I had no problems.
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Oct 26, 2023 00:54
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Desk Lamp posted:
Once again, it can't. Video boost captures per frame meta data in real time and you need a dual gain sensor to get that data and only the Pixel 8 series has that with the GNV sensor. This is one of the ones that most definitely has a hardware component. It's not just AI enhancement of video, it's using exposure meta data at capture time to process the final video output using algorithms that can't run at 30-60fps yet. Google may eventually trot out some other AI video enhancement, but it's not going to be the same as Video Boost. Pixel 8 actually has TWO magic erasers. The one that's just a button in photos uses infill painting and runs on the device. If you hit the other icon in the lower left, you can use the enhanced magic eraser inside magic editor that uses generative AI to fill. That's the one that has a cloud component. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Oct 26, 2023 |
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Oct 26, 2023 01:02
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bull3964 posted:Once again, it can't. Fair enough, I am certainly no expert. So you are saying that the Pixel 8 is the only phone on the market with the hardware capable of capturing this metadata?
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Oct 26, 2023 04:00
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No, the GNV specifically is used by some vivo phones I believe. I also think the ISOCELL HP2 in the S23U has dual gain too. However just having the capture hardware doesn't mean the devices could ever be capable of producing the proper input. The video is preprocessed on the G3 using the ML hardware to produce the metadata. So, it's likely not going to be as simple as side loading an APK as the necessary preprocessing is on the custom part of the SoC and just flat out wouldn't be able to run on the run of the mill Snapdragon or Dimensity.
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Oct 26, 2023 05:03
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bull3964 posted:No, the GNV specifically is used by some vivo phones I believe. I also think the ISOCELL HP2 in the S23U has dual gain too. If the G3 can do it, I don't really see a reason why the Snapdragon couldn't.
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Oct 26, 2023 14:21
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The processing is not running in the ARM cores. It's running in the tensor silicon in the SoC which is fully custom to Google. You would basically have to emulate the tensor DSPs. There's more to G3 than a handful of ARM cores that Samsung helped tape out. There's a chunk of fully custom silicon there that runs Google's ML models and those are unique to the SoC.
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Oct 26, 2023 15:29
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bull3964 posted:The processing is not running in the ARM cores. It's running in the tensor silicon in the SoC which is fully custom to Google. You would basically have to emulate the tensor DSPs. I get that there's custom silicon in Tensor. However, that does not make it a unique piece of technology capable of feats other chips just can't do. There's been nothing to suggest that a Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 or an A17 wouldn't be able to run the same processes. Then again, I'm no expert, so time will tell I suppose.
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Oct 26, 2023 17:58
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You can’t just run code written for a custom instruction set on a different processor. There’s nothing preventing a different manufacturer from doing the same feature and running it on SD8 Gen 3, but you can’t just run the same code that google is using. It would be like stuffing a PS3 game into an Xbox and expecting it to work without an emulator. So, to get another phone to use the video boost feature, you would need. Dual gain image sensor Custom ISP firmware that captures specific metadata in realtime and encodes it properly in the video file. Extraction and emulation of ML preprocessing of the video. Spoofing the P8P to Photos so that it uploads it for processing. I can potentially see someone getting it to work on the base Pixel 8 (though i still suspect a processor binning situation there.) bull3964 fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Oct 26, 2023 |
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Oct 26, 2023 18:26
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bull3964 posted:You can’t just run code written for a custom instruction set on a different processor. How custom are the Google chip instruction sets? Like, what is the stuff they've added to the basic AArch64 set?
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Oct 26, 2023 18:45
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Google's playbook here seems pretty apparent. They have datacenters full of TPUs for ML tasks and they are developing algorithms to run on them. Every iteration of Tensor Gx brings more of that datacenter functionality to the device. Not all of it can run fast enough or in a low enough power/thermal envelope locally yet. That said, by unifying the arch between their handsets and datacenters, all of their datacenter efforts can bear direct fruit locally. They can have constant software development in the cloud and then they can split off functions that can run in an efficient manner on their phones to do locally. Over time as Tensor Gx matures, more and more of that is going to be local. G3 may not be able to run Magic Editor fully locally, but G4 or G5 might be able to, but then those chips will get more advanced features that as hybrid cloud as the functionality increase out there, followed by bringing them local in later generations. Could they have done this with Snapdragon? Maybe, but it wouldn't make sense. They could have the TPU be a standalone DSP that they could pair with any ARM SoC, but there's also a lot of silicon dedicated to AI functionality on Snapdragon chipsets that would then go idle. So, you pay a premium to end up not using 60% of the die. You could try to write those features so that they ran natively on the Snapdragon AI hardware, but then you can't just simply port features from the cloud to the handsets without either translating or emulating them. It ends up being more costly to bring cloud features local and then you get reliant on Qualcomm from there on out, forever locked into one SoC ecosystem. Tensor was 100% the right move even if the execution hasn't been perfect. I really wonder how much the pandemic turbofucked early development of Tensor. lines posted:How custom are the Google chip instruction sets? Like, what is the stuff they've added to the basic AArch64 set? Again, not talking about the stuff that runs on the ARM cores. There's other silicon on the die for purpose built processing. This is their cloud TPUs, but this gives you an idea how different this stuff is from general processing. https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/ai-machine-learning/an-in-depth-look-at-googles-first-tensor-processing-unit-tpu It's my understanding that the Tensor Gx leans heavily at times on the Mali GPU for some of the parallel operations. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Oct 26, 2023 |
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Oct 26, 2023 18:54
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bull3964 posted:You can’t just run code written for a custom instruction set on a different processor. We are essentially in agreement. You originally stated that it couldn't be done because of the GNV; then you said it was because of the Tensor G3; now you're saying it can be done you just need to code it and that someone might get it to work. I'm not talking about some random on XDA, I'm saying Google themselves might eventually open the feature to Google One premium users. They made the thing, and they can code it to run on other chips. They also have the incentive to do so: Google wants as many people as possible using their services, feeding their Deep Mind AI, and gobbling up ads. A handful of Pixel sales is probably worth less to them than millions of potential subscribers. Again, I'm no expert, but the only barrier I see would be Google not wanting to do it.
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Oct 26, 2023 19:05
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Desk Lamp posted:
You aren't getting it. Unless google goes into a partnership with someone like Samsung and gets them to add specific features into the firmware of the phone, it's not happening. There are specific things that have to be recorded at capture time and that requires the ISP firmware to do so. Maybe google could write the preprocessing for Video Boost to work on other chipsets and include it in the Google Photos app, but you still need the capture time data that you need a specific type of sensor to do and the hardware image processing pipeline has to be written to do it. So, while the S23U has a dual gain sensor, the ISP would have to be updated (something only Samsung could to) to record the necessary metadata for the processing to work on. As for other Pixel phones, their camera sensors lack the necessary hardware for the feature, full stop. They can't pass the first hurdle. And this is ALL assuming that the ML model is flexible enough to use data from the HP2 the same as the GNV and not tuned to the specific camera attributes like assumed aperture and known metering system.
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Oct 26, 2023 19:36
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bull3964 posted:You aren't getting it. You're saying it won't be done unless Google does it, which is essentially the same thing I'm saying. We agree it is possible but disagree on the likelihood it'll actually happen.
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Oct 26, 2023 20:38
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Is RCS messaging slower than it used to be for anyone else? Like, I frequently send multiple messages in a row and I can see that they are delayed being delivered, where they used to be pretty instant. Feels like I can only get 2 to 4 messages to process in a minute. The problem feels worse when I use the web client for google messages, but I still notice it directly on my phone.
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Oct 26, 2023 21:00
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Desk Lamp posted:You're saying it won't be done unless Google does it Google cannot unilaterally do it and the potential list of phones where it may be remotely possible if the other hardware manufacturer agreed to work with them on it can be counted on one hand. In other news, 1hr 50 minute drive with wireless Android Auto navigating and playing podcasts and only 17% battery was consumed.
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Oct 26, 2023 21:36
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I've been running into some strange random issues on my P6P on Android 14. At first it started forgetting permissions, like it was fine one time opening the app but the next time no permissions. Now it seems to have forgotten my vibration settings once I leave my house. Anyone else seeing this? Also, I can't remember where the hell the setting for that is. Lol
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Oct 27, 2023 01:11
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Today, I learned you can use face unlock to log into secure apps on Galaxy phones. I'd never noticed it before because the fingerprint unlock is already pretty much instantaneous, but yeah, you absolutely can.
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Oct 27, 2023 03:48
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My S23U, Fold 4, Flip 5 beg to differ.
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Oct 27, 2023 04:17
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Did it on the S22U, the S23U, and just for the hell of it, it worked on my Tab S9U as well. You absolutely can.
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Oct 27, 2023 04:44
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Which apps? Robinhood let's me do face unlock but it's the only app I ever see it on out of various bank, credit card, and password manager apps. I think at one point the Discover app used to but then it stopped, but I can't remember if that was the s23u or the s21u
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Oct 27, 2023 05:09
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Resdfru posted:Which apps? I think you figured it out, tested it out some more and Chase and Amex won't let you use face unlock either.
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Oct 27, 2023 05:23
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Desk Lamp posted:Today, I learned you can use face unlock to log into secure apps on Galaxy phones. I'd never noticed it before because the fingerprint unlock is already pretty much instantaneous, but yeah, you absolutely can. Face unlock on the S23U (and other devices) is considered BIOMETRIC_WEAK or Class 2 in the Android API. If any developer only sets requirements for that biometric level when building their app, then you can use your face to unlock it.
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Oct 27, 2023 05:48
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Ragingsheep posted:Face unlock on the S23U (and other devices) is considered BIOMETRIC_WEAK or Class 2 in the Android API. If any developer only sets requirements for that biometric level when building their app, then you can use your face to unlock it. Yeah, figured it'd be something like that. It took me completely by surprise since usually the prompt flashes by so quickly I barely see it. It's pretty much muscle memory to place my finger on the sensor immediately after tapping the app icon.
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Oct 27, 2023 05:56
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Ugh I seem to have been hit by the corrupt Android 14 issue, had to factory reset my Pixel 6 pro. Final nail in the coffin for the Pixel series for me I think, not sure if I was unlucky buy I had more issues with mine than I've had with any other phone in recent memory. I'm coming up on upgrade time, what's a decent midrange replacement since I can't face throwing £1000 at a flagship.
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Oct 27, 2023 07:39
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With a trade in deal for your Pixel you could probably get an S23 Ultra for a lot less than that. In the midrange there's also the S23 FE and the A54.
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Oct 27, 2023 13:31
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Dirty Needles posted:Ugh I seem to have been hit by the corrupt Android 14 issue, had to factory reset my Pixel 6 pro. Final nail in the coffin for the Pixel series for me I think, not sure if I was unlucky buy I had more issues with mine than I've had with any other phone in recent memory. I'm coming up on upgrade time, what's a decent midrange replacement since I can't face throwing £1000 at a flagship. That really sucks, what other problems did you have? Is that your first Pixel?
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Oct 27, 2023 16:45
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i just recorded a front facing video on my p7 and it wouldn't stop when i hit the stop button. and it wouldn't let me swipe up to go home or use the back gesture. lol cool
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Oct 27, 2023 16:49
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Ragingsheep posted:Face unlock on the S23U (and other devices) is considered BIOMETRIC_WEAK or Class 2 in the Android API. If any developer only sets requirements for that biometric level when building their app, then you can use your face to unlock it. And on the pixel 8 pro it's now level 3. Which is nice when logging in and there's enough light for the face unlock to work.
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Oct 27, 2023 17:08
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I've never had to factory reset any pixel device
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Oct 27, 2023 17:23
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Ok what the hell. I thought I had this solved, but no dice. Android 14 - Pixel 7. I'm taking some simple product shots on a white light box background. I bump up the exposure in the camera app to blow out the background, and when I look at the snapped photo in the camera app, it looks great. But when I download from photos, the exposure is somehow set back to normal and the background is all mid-tones. What is going on?!? Occasionally one *will* retain the exposure... but if I sit there and take 5 or 6 more with the same exposure settings, the rest are all reset to 0. Question still remains - any recommended camera apps beyond the stock one? I love Filmic Pro for video control, but it doesn't do stills. BonoMan fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Oct 28, 2023 |
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Oct 28, 2023 19:24
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