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Der Kyhe posted:The same that happened to all TNG movies, PatStew got executive producer credit, more and more power over time, and creative veto. It just got worse and worse until the ship capsized at Nemesis. While Insurrection was the peak of Stewart's creative control (the only real influence he had on Nemesis was the insertion of the dune buggy scene), Spiner's reached its apex on Nemesis. Insurrection had had a decent-enough opening weekend that Paramount was open to a fourth TNG movie. However, while the rest of the cast was under contract (they signed their Generations deals with options for a sequel, same with their Insurrection contracts), Spiner famously never signed for more than one movie at a time. So when his agent said Paramount was calling about a movie deal, Spiner basically said, "I want the same level of control that Patrick had on the last one." Knowing that you can't do a TNG movie without Data, Paramount acquiesced, and Spiner brought in his friend John Logan to work on the story and script, getting him a contract stipulating he could not be rewritten (about 95 percent of Logan's script for Gladiator was thrown out and rewritten, but he still retained a script credit with Bill Nicholson and David Franzoni). So Spiner and Logan broke the entire story and script together, and since Logan grew up watching the movies and TNG, he blatantly ripped off things he liked from his favorites. (Picard walking around the Enterprise as it prepares for battle, giving a solemn monologue, is straight out of Best of Both Worlds 1, for example.) Nick Meyer was the first person who was approached to direct, but upon hearing that he wouldn't be allowed to touch the script, he turned them down. Then Mission: Impossible 2 and Tomb Raider made a hojillion dollars at the box office and on home video for Paramount, and so Sherry Lansing introduced Stuart Baird to Berman and said, "Here's your director. Make it work."
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Oct 26, 2023 04:10
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Sash! posted:His costume was so lame It looks like the kind of piped undersuit that they had to develop for Marvel movies to run cold water through the actors' costumes so they literally didn't die of heat stroke while filming that garbage.
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Oct 26, 2023 04:13
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“Leather fetish gear? No, no this is uh…what we all wear in the 31st century. It’s a spy suit, I swear.” (Daniels is a time traveling sex pest with a timeline corruption kink)
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Oct 26, 2023 04:16
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Was Daniels supposed to be cool? Because yeah he comes across as just this little weirdo.
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Oct 26, 2023 07:12
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I never got the vibe he was supposed to be cool or even that the audience was supposed to find him sympathetic. Yeah he was Federation, but he was also another rear end in a top hat actively loving with Archer’s missions as part of the Temporal Cold War. He’s basically a Q for Archer, if Q was a boring wet noodle CIA spook working for future Section 31.
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Oct 26, 2023 07:15
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HD DAD posted:“Leather fetish gear? No, no this is uh…what we all wear in the 31st century. It’s a spy suit, I swear.” It looks like a stillsuit out of Lynch's Dune.
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Oct 26, 2023 07:25
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thotsky posted:It looks like a stillsuit out of Lynch's Dune. Maybe he got it from alternate timeline Picard, then.
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Oct 26, 2023 07:26
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Big Mean Jerk posted:He’s basically a Q for Archer, if Q was a boring wet noodle CIA spook working for future Section 31. I did like DS9's take on this with the Department of Temporal Investigations people being just this very straitlaced bureaucrats, taking this grand adventure as just a typical daily mess they need to check up on. Just spot on for the tone of the episode.
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Oct 26, 2023 07:33
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The worst part of any prequel is when they go "This might be very important at some point in the future, wink wink!" so of course one of the very first things they do on Enterprise is create a character entirely out of that.
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Oct 26, 2023 11:36
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I did find it funny on rewatch that Daniels fucks over his future by plucking Archer from the timeline in one episode Which for these future people should have been something they would know NOT to do.
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Oct 26, 2023 13:16
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FlamingLiberal posted:I did find it funny on rewatch that Daniels fucks over his future by plucking Archer from the timeline in one episode Daniels also "forgets" his Junior Woodchuck's guidebook filled with detailed information on technology and on what will happen in the next 600+ years to NX-1 so that Archer can read it and "cheat" to maintain the timeline. Someone not-Archer would have used that data and taken over the entire galaxy.
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Oct 26, 2023 14:23
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Yes he’s incredibly sloppy with future info.
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Oct 26, 2023 14:27
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Star Trek V might be better than Star Trek III.
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Oct 26, 2023 14:54
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Der Kyhe posted:Daniels also "forgets" his Junior Woodchuck's guidebook filled with detailed information on technology and on what will happen in the next 600+ years to NX-1 so that Archer can read it and "cheat" to maintain the timeline. Someone not-Archer would have used that data and taken over the entire galaxy. Daniels knew Archer was an idiot.
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Oct 26, 2023 15:13
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Sir Lemming posted:The worst part of any prequel is when they go "This might be very important at some point in the future, wink wink!" so of course one of the very first things they do on Enterprise is create a character entirely out of that. This is why I hate prequels on general principle nowadays unless they have their own story to tell like Better Call Saul (and even then I had to roll my eyes at some of the BB call forwards)
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Oct 26, 2023 15:22
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Atlas Hugged posted:Star Trek V might be better than Star Trek III. Counterpoint: the fan dance They're pretty close. My hot take is VI > II > IV (don't actually know if that's a hot take)
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Oct 26, 2023 15:23
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Which of the TOS movies are good? My dear doctor, they’re all good! Even I, III, and V? Especially I, III, and V.
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Oct 26, 2023 15:29
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Yes, they are all good, even if some are better than others. I would watch any of the TOS movies over any of the TNG movies.
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Oct 26, 2023 15:33
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Atlas Hugged posted:Like Kirk is also super into Abraham Lincoln and the show itself makes a lot of references to cowboy media because a boy growing up in the 1940s would have a lot more connection to the late 1800s and that is what Kirk was modeled on. I'm not saying it does make sense to the character I'm just realising that the 60s is as far away from the 90s as the 80s is from now. 5 has a really good beginning, that camping stuff is great. The rocket boots are great. But the rest of the story is a confused mess - at least III makes sense
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Oct 26, 2023 15:36
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HD DAD posted:Which of the TOS movies are good? To quote Lower Decks: "But it's a bad story!" "Yeah, it's an uneven slog that totally ignores the successes of the original. But it's also a Starfleet movie, which means it's worth doing." MikeJF fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Oct 26, 2023 |
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Oct 26, 2023 15:46
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Yes, they are all good, even if some are better than others. I would watch any of the TOS movies over any of the TNG movies. It pains me to agree with this sentence but it's true 
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Oct 26, 2023 16:39
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I will rewatch FC before I rewatch 1, 3, 5
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Oct 26, 2023 16:44
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- TMP is good for visuals and mood. - TWOK is just good, period. - Voyage Home is charming in a mediocre 80s comedy way, plus it has some of the TOS crew’s best movie moments - TFF also has some of the TOS trinity’s best moments, DeForest Kelley performing a genuinely moving scene, and probably the most TOS plot of any of the TOS movies (a madman steals the Enterprise to find God and discovers he’s actually a malevolent charlatan who then has to be destroyed by the crew is extremely Season 2/3 TOS) - TUC is baby’s first Cold War metaphor but it’s also just a genuinely good movie that only stumbles a couple times and has arguably one of Trek’s best villains, plus Sulu on the Excelsior The only one I’ll never go to bat for is Search for Spock, which is a boring badly-shot slog that only has Stealing the Enterprise and the subsequent destruction going for it. Everything else is awful.
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Oct 26, 2023 17:11
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Man Lower Decks this week seems to have really nailed the tone of the thread for the past few pages. Mariner has a breakdown because Starfleet should be about exploring and solving puzzles and not fighting.
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Oct 26, 2023 17:16
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Yeah well that was before the Dominion killed seven billion federation citizens
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Oct 26, 2023 17:37
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zoux posted:Yeah well that was before the Dominion killed seven billion federation citizens Well yeah they straight up talk about how that's one of the major things that broke her. Lower Decks is great guys watch it if you don't and come hang in the modern trek thread as well.
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Oct 26, 2023 18:22
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MikeJF posted:Lower Decks is great guys watch it if you don't and come hang in the modern trek thread as well. I can't handle the modern Trek thread, Trek hasn't been good since What You Leave Behind 
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Oct 26, 2023 18:32
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Oh that’s fine, the thread is almost entirely bitching about modern trek
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Oct 26, 2023 18:52
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Just finished DS9 Whispers. I vaguely knew the twist going in so it was a really frustrating episode. That had to be the worst possible way everyone involved could have handled the situation, it was just cruel. Then he just dies at the end and everyone is like whatever.
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Oct 26, 2023 19:26
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Boxturret posted:Just finished DS9 Whispers. I vaguely knew the twist going in so it was a really frustrating episode. That had to be the worst possible way everyone involved could have handled the situation, it was just cruel. Then he just dies at the end and everyone is like whatever. Yeah it's great, such a bleak and nightmarish resolution for a Trek episode
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Oct 26, 2023 19:30
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Eason the Fifth posted:Trek hasn't been good since What You Leave Behind
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Oct 26, 2023 19:55
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The only one I’ll never go to bat for is Search for Spock, which is a boring badly-shot slog that only has Stealing the Enterprise and the subsequent destruction going for it. Everything else is awful. It’s worth watching for Christopher Lloyd, he’s so badass. Actually I don’t really remember much else about it except that it wasn’t worth remembering.
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Oct 26, 2023 20:14
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Boxturret posted:Just finished DS9 Whispers. I vaguely knew the twist going in so it was a really frustrating episode. That had to be the worst possible way everyone involved could have handled the situation, it was just cruel. Then he just dies at the end and everyone is like whatever. Barely in the Top Ten hosed Up Things to Happen to Obrien
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Oct 26, 2023 20:36
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A hosed-Up Thing Happened To O’Brien On The Way To The Promenade
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Oct 26, 2023 22:34
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The trick to enjoying TMP is to approach it as classical music album with some weird cool trippy visuals instead of as a blockbuster film that's supposed to depict a sequence of events occurring. I low key kinda love V as well. Not as a film, it's objectively awful, but as a monument to a mans ego that is so large he managed to get Hollywood producers to give him millions of dollars to make a film about him wanting to gently caress a mountain and then get into, and win, a punch up with god. I just have to respect that. Also there is a cat woman with 3 boobs.
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Oct 26, 2023 22:59
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Boxturret posted:Just finished DS9 Whispers. I vaguely knew the twist going in so it was a really frustrating episode. That had to be the worst possible way everyone involved could have handled the situation, it was just cruel. Then he just dies at the end and everyone is like whatever. I genuinely love Whispers Where they're all so unsure what to do and it's so horrible for him, it's just a good concept episode
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Oct 26, 2023 23:01
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I watched TMP today, after all the discussion here. Unfortunately I'm a millennial with ADHD and a phone addiction who basically knew what was gonna happen, so I'm not sure I have anything to add. At this point I've seen everything so much I can watch without really watching, only paying attention to particular moments that I remember and want to see again. And nothing from TMP jumps out to me as a moment I want to see again.
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Oct 26, 2023 23:08
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TMP owns y'all just don't measure up
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Oct 26, 2023 23:12
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Tighclops posted:TMP owns y'all just don't measure up Preach https://youtu.be/99YTAiM67ng?si=aVKUftlsMddyqGn0
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Oct 26, 2023 23:17
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Taear posted:I'm not saying it does make sense to the character I'm just realising that the 60s is as far away from the 90s as the 80s is from now. the 80s are an erroneous inclusion; the 90s are equidistant from both other decades
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Oct 26, 2023 23:26
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