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Mendrian posted:Well yes but I think it's fair to say when we're talking about people being 'desensitized to violence' we're not specifically discussing the ghouls, because clearly they want more violence. I don’t think voting blue accomplishes that, even. I think it does more to reify the system as it exists by lending it the legitimacy it needs to perpetuate itself, doing the things it was going to do with or without your input. You don’t gotta vote—plenty of people don’t in this country, mostly poor and brown people, so you’re not in bad company, either by capital L liberal standards or by leftist radical standards, though for very different understandings of why, by choosing not to vote.
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Oct 27, 2023 01:20
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Mendrian posted:Well yes but I think it's fair to say when we're talking about people being 'desensitized to violence' we're not specifically discussing the ghouls, because clearly they want more violence. So what is the alternative and does that alternative mean you also can't vote?
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Oct 27, 2023 01:21
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socialsecurity posted:So what is the alternative and does that alternative mean you also can't vote? Radical restructuring. From a non-violent perspective it will require a social movement more powerful than any that have ever happened in this country before. And frankly the left, at this moment, lacks the leadership and coordination to do anything of the sort, but it is what is required. Voting and campaigning in decent primaries might help but cynically it's too little too late.
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Oct 27, 2023 01:31
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mannerup posted:Mike Johnson was already screwed with the far right from day one after supporting funding for Israel, he is now considered a puppet of the 'zionist-occupied government' who won't 'name the jew'. people like Matt Walsh thinks he is the same as McCarthy because he won't explicitly say that George Floyd wasn't murdered and died of a fentanyl overdose, which is their preferred narrative of those events. The issue is more that there isn't a singular far right, everyone has been atomized in the tubes of the internet and thus there is no agreed upon purity. That plus we've reached the point in the distillation process that so much RINO water has been lost that everything else is concentrated enough that it's time to find a new THEM to rally against. It's a punch of insane narcissists who know that they can't be the problem, and Conservatism can't fail, so YOU must be failing Conservatism. With a side of conman grifting. If it weren't actively killing good people, it'd be a hell of a show to watch while sipping fine drinks.
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Oct 27, 2023 01:36
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Gyges posted:The issue is more that there isn't a singular far right, everyone has been atomized in the tubes of the internet and thus there is no agreed upon purity. That plus we've reached the point in the distillation process that so much RINO water has been lost that everything else is concentrated enough that it's time to find a new THEM to rally against. This is very true, the number of people I've seen call Mitch McConnell a RINO is confusing. Dude's single handed orchestrated more real raw power for the GOP then almost anyone else in modern history and he's still not Republican enough for some of them. I mean it's probably a good thing they infight a bunch and aren't more organized.
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Oct 27, 2023 01:38
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B B posted:The police presence is high, but it's not certain that he's in the home: I don't know why but I'm weirdly amused by the fact that it's apparently police procedure to say 'we know you're in there!' even if you don't actually think that. I mean, shoot your shot I guess
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Oct 27, 2023 01:41
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Mendrian posted:Radical restructuring. From a non-violent perspective it will require a social movement more powerful than any that have ever happened in this country before. And frankly the left, at this moment, lacks the leadership and coordination to do anything of the sort, but it is what is required. Ok, so what are you going to do while waiting for this thing you acknowledge will never happen to happen?
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Oct 27, 2023 01:44
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socialsecurity posted:This is very true, the number of people I've seen call Mitch McConnell a RINO is confusing. Dude's single handed orchestrated more real raw power for the GOP then almost anyone else in modern history and he's still not Republican enough for some of them. I mean it's probably a good thing they infight a bunch and aren't more organized. They’ll all crawl over broken glass to vote for him anyway. Their griping says nothing about how they’ll vote.
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Oct 27, 2023 01:44
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haveblue posted:Ok, so what are you going to do while waiting for this thing you acknowledge will never happen to happen? My plan, from feeling kinda similar to Mendrian 1. Grow my fingers as long as I can, and find pleasure and meaning where I can in life; Marx’s right on this part quote:
2. Build strong networks with friends, neighbors and like-minded members of the community: that’s who shows up first when you’re in trouble, and there are times even now in our society when we previously had institutions that might appear to render aid in times of crisis that are unable or unwilling to do so anymore, so you’re going to need to be able to rely on these informal networks of support as more and more of the copper is stripped out of the walls of society. 3. Learn about what other people did when their governments no longer could or would serve up enough benefit to be worth keeping around. There are a lot of historical examples, and even if you don’t agree with their end goals, it’s important to understand the research, reflection and theory that’s come before if you hope to be a meaningful political subject in the future, rather than falling to feelings of hopelessness and doom. Mao, Lenin and just for fun Luttwak are good starters. They took pretty practical approaches, from different starting points. This study is also good for point 1 if you’re a history buff like me. This is not to say you should plan to be a Lenin, because who among us has that level of intellectual rigor, ambition and drive? But learning to spot a Lenin and getting in the tailwind might be helpful, and these are also inspirational stories; stories of liberating entire peoples from under an economic and social boot, against the most dire of odds, overturning entrenched, sclerotic and ineffective political systems. That’s what I do, those three things, and they’ve been helpful as I fell away from liberalism and looked for something that made more sense, gave me a more honest lens (to me) through which to view the world.
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Oct 27, 2023 01:55
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selec posted:My plan, from feeling kinda similar to Mendrian Those are all really great personal life goals but from a practical, societal perspective, why does it hurt to also vote for the lesser of two evils when it comes down to it? I feel it would be hard to argue that Biden being elected over Trump hasn't mattered in terms of progressive ideals.
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Oct 27, 2023 02:33
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shimmy shimmy posted:I don't know why but I'm weirdly amused by the fact that it's apparently police procedure to say 'we know you're in there!' even if you don't actually think that. I mean, shoot your shot I guess The dude hiding in the 37th house doesn’t know you’ve been shouting it at every house.
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Oct 27, 2023 02:56
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socialsecurity posted:This is very true, the number of people I've seen call Mitch McConnell a RINO is confusing. Dude's single handed orchestrated more real raw power for the GOP then almost anyone else in modern history and he's still not Republican enough for some of them. I mean it's probably a good thing they infight a bunch and aren't more organized. Mitch McConnell is not stupid is the reason. Because he is not stupid he will not say things he knows will hurt them politically. The things which hurt them politically however are the core beliefs of the modern right wing
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Oct 27, 2023 02:57
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selec posted:My plan, from feeling kinda similar to Mendrian What if I don't find totalitarian dictatorships inspirational?
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Oct 27, 2023 03:29
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Giggle Goose posted:Those are all really great personal life goals but from a practical, societal perspective, why does it hurt to also vote for the lesser of two evils when it comes down to it? I feel it would be hard to argue that Biden being elected over Trump hasn't mattered in terms of progressive ideals. At a certain point I just can’t vote for somebody because both parties support policies so far from what I want to see in the world, and those policies matter to me enough that I can’t bring myself to get over it and vote for them. I don’t think it’s a moral duty to vote, and I do think voting is lending legitimacy to the system, which to my mind only drags out the long period of moribund decay of the empire even longer, with all the horrific poo poo done in our names that the decline entails. It would be great if we could vote our way into a system that more evenly distributed the resources available, but it seems like no matter who we vote for the copper-stripping does not abate. So I don’t find much value in getting too het up about all of it. I haven’t given up entirely on voting at every level, I still vote in local elections because you sometimes get to vote for someone who you can later buttonhole for help if you need a wheel greased, or know you might actually be helping to defeat a loathsome shitbag you’ll later see around at the grocery store and get to nudge your spouse in the elbow and whisper “that’s the library nazi” or whatever, that’s getting something from politics.
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Oct 27, 2023 03:35
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Quixzlizx posted:What if I don't find totalitarian dictatorships inspirational? Like I said quote:There are a lot of historical examples, and even if you don’t agree with their end goals, it’s important to understand the research, reflection and theory that’s come before if you hope to be a meaningful political subject in the future If you wanna keep voting keep voting, I just personally don’t see it as a viable route to solving some of the larger, most vexatious problems working people have to deal with. They aren’t problems that can’t be solved by government, but I don’t think they can be solved by our government as it is constrained by our political economy.
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Oct 27, 2023 03:39
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102623_5 posted:permanently banned? more like paying $6.25 a minute You're the target audience for those 1-900 chat numbers that used to be advertised on late night TV aren't you?
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Oct 27, 2023 05:15
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selec posted:At a certain point I just can’t vote for somebody because both parties support policies so far from what I want to see in the world, and those policies matter to me enough that I can’t bring myself to get over it and vote for them. I don’t think it’s a moral duty to vote, and I do think voting is lending legitimacy to the system, which to my mind only drags out the long period of moribund decay of the empire even longer, with all the horrific poo poo done in our names that the decline entails. It would be great if we could vote our way into a system that more evenly distributed the resources available, but it seems like no matter who we vote for the copper-stripping does not abate. So I don’t find much value in getting too het up about all of it. I mean, just talking events of the past few decades not wanting LGBTQ minorities to get genocided by a bunch of christian fascists taking over is something pretty much any decent person would want but you do you.  What it sounds like is that you think the good that can be done isn't worth your impossible views that are never going to happen in your lifetime. Which is about as similar as saying that you're okay with some innocent and less well off people getting hurt if it gets you closer to what you want.
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Oct 27, 2023 05:41
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Archonex posted:I mean, not wanting minorities to get genocided by a bunch of christian fascists taking over is something pretty much any decent person would want but you do you. Yeah, my trans nephew probably isn’t feeling like the “refusing to vote” point of view is actually a moral choice, It’s pretty tone deaf to his terrifying current circumstances. It’s one thing for an ignorant low information citizen not to vote. But a well informed progressive or leftist who knows how scary things are and still doesn’t vote? sigh.
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Oct 27, 2023 05:53
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Rigel posted:Re: suddenly hearing voices in your 40's, I always quietly wonder about extemely severe alcohol use. Hearing angry insulting voices is often one of the last gifts you can potentially get from decades of alcoholism. There’s also Covid psychosis. quote:There’s growing evidence that COVID-19 and new psychotic episodes are connected. The North Carolina case, reported in the British Medical Journal in August 2020, joins a slew of case reports published in medical journals during the pandemic that detail psychotic episodes following a COVID-19 diagnosis. In the July 2020 issue of BJPsyh Open, researchers reported that a 55-year old woman in the U.K., with no history of mental illness, arrived at a hospital days after recovering from a severe case of COVID-19 with delusions and hallucinations, convinced that the nurses were devils in disguise and that monkeys were jumping out of the doctors’ medical bags. In April 2021, other researchers wrote in BMJ Case Reports of a middle-aged British man, also with no prior mental health disorders, who had appeared at a London hospital experiencing auditory and visual hallucinations and banging his head against walls until he bruised his skin. (Weeks before, he had recovered from a bout with COVID-19 that had landed him in the intensive care unit.) In yet another case, published in the Journal of Psychiatric Practice in March 2021, a 57-year-old-man turned up at Columbia University’s New York Presbyterian Hospital insisting that his wife was poisoning him, that cameras had been planted throughout his apartment, and that the patients in the hospital’s emergency department were being secretly murdered.
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Oct 27, 2023 05:53
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Archonex posted:I mean, just talking events of the past few decades not wanting LGBTQ minorities to get genocided by a bunch of christian fascists taking over is something pretty much any decent person would want but you do you. predicto posted:Yeah, my trans nephew probably isn’t feeling like the “refusing to vote” point of view is actually a moral choice, It’s pretty tone deaf to his terrifying current circumstances. Or alternatively the poster's assuming that LGBTQ folk would go through the same amount of suffering/persecution no matter what (which I'd also disagree with)
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Oct 27, 2023 05:57
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selec posted:I don’t think it’s a moral duty to vote, and I do think voting is lending legitimacy to the system, which to my mind only drags out the long period of moribund decay of the empire even longer, with all the horrific poo poo done in our names that the decline entails. People telling you to vote are generally doing it because they want the party that has a large Christian ISIS base to not be in power and to not write laws, it's not that deep fam
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Oct 27, 2023 06:03
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Archonex posted:I mean, just talking events of the past few decades not wanting LGBTQ minorities to get genocided by a bunch of christian fascists taking over is something pretty much any decent person would want but you do you. I think about this too, how we have had some gains from Democratic admins. But I also have to look at what we trade our vote for, which is currently backing up an attempted genocide, as I see it, just from one angle. You get served up people who have fully backed, even architected the drug war, which has created immense generational harm visited on the poor and people of color. At a certain point, from my perspective, it becomes morally repugnant to support actors who are willing to fulfill their role in perpetuating that system, at such a high level. There’s also practical considerations, like that I am in a red state, not that it matters; voting is as much a cultural ritual of individual moral expiation as it is a meaningful political act, and I’d argue it’s much, much more the former than the latter in the current political system, where so little policy is based on what the majority of citizens could actually benefit from. And to your last point, there are two things. First, all political choices are about throwing somebody under a bus; you may think that my political choices throw vulnerable people here in the states under the bus, whereas I believe the choice to vote for either major party candidate does as much to throw other vulnerable people in the US and abroad under the bus. I think that were both probably right, either choice is picking a loser, and maybe not even any winners. As for the second part, on the likelihood of political upheaval in the imperial core, I don’t know if some enormous political shock will happen in my lifetime, one that offers the revolutionary moment, but would you really be so surprised? We spent four years after 2016 as a nation reeling at what felt like a fever dream at times, and yet further political upheaval doesn’t seem likely to you? You think it’s going to be fewer protests, less widening of the gap between rich and poor, less desperation, less neglect? Because as I’ve said, I don’t think the political institutions as they’re constituted under the political economy we labor under are capable of arresting the slide. I think they will become less able to make people feel like their lives are improved by government as the extraction of wealth from the working people of America only gets more craven, and the forces of law and order are sent out to oppress people with less and less to lose as the years go on.
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Oct 27, 2023 06:03
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burnishedfume posted:People telling you to vote are generally doing it because they want the party that has a large Christian ISIS base to not be in power and to not write laws, it's not that deep fam Yeah, I have little to no patience for dumbasses who don't vote for the obviously less evil candidates under whom various people would have a tangibly higher quality of life (like literally any group other than white men). Take that hand wringing and write a blogpost about it and go vote for people who want to kill and ruin fewer people. I have no time for your boring rear end philosophizing.
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Oct 27, 2023 06:21
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Oracle posted:There’s also Covid psychosis. Yeah, both the alcohol thing and yet another way COVID fucks people up sounds absolutely horrible. Especially since the trigger seemed to be hearing aids. My grandfather needed hearing aids the entire time I knew him since I was a child but he refused to wear them. Finally he admitted that he'd always just had horrible hearing so he never developed the mental barriers to tune people out since if they needed something they'd yell at him. I could see the guy suddenly hearing voices he couldn't hear before building off of either hallucinations from alcoholism, COVID psychosis, or who knows what. The hearing aids acting as an amplifier for something already going unfortunately wrong. And of course we just treat mental illness in this country as something to ignore. Just rub some dirt on those voices you're hearing and suck it up, Johnny! It builds character!
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Oct 27, 2023 06:28
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selec posted:I don’t think voting blue accomplishes that, even. I think it does more to reify the system as it exists by lending it the legitimacy it needs to perpetuate itself, doing the things it was going to do with or without your input. If literally everyone on the left read your take, agreed with it, and stopped voting, what do you think would happen: A) With total control of Congress, the police, the judicial system and the presidency, the Right would enact its agenda in full and maintain control over any resultant unrest with militarized riot police? B) Socialism
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Oct 27, 2023 06:35
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mutata posted:Yeah, I have little to no patience for dumbasses who don't vote for the obviously less evil candidates under whom various people would have a tangibly higher quality of life (like literally any group other than white men). Take that hand wringing and write a blogpost about it and go vote for people who want to kill and ruin fewer people. I have no time for your boring rear end philosophizing. Should a person who is against the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians vote for those who enable the ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestinians? Should someone who is pro-choice vote for a Dem who is anti-choice? Or a transphobe?
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Oct 27, 2023 06:41
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Thanqol posted:If literally everyone on the left read your take, agreed with it, and stopped voting, what do you think would happen: Do you think that a) is not still the likeliest outcome even if the left continues to vote?
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Oct 27, 2023 06:41
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selec posted:I think about this too, how we have had some gains from Democratic admins. But I also have to look at what we trade our vote for, which is currently backing up an attempted genocide, as I see it, just from one angle. You get served up people who have fully backed, even architected the drug war, which has created immense generational harm visited on the poor and people of color. At a certain point, from my perspective, it becomes morally repugnant to support actors who are willing to fulfill their role in perpetuating that system, at such a high level. Wait wait wait, so you don't want to support an attempted genocide...by doing your own part to let other people closer to home commit a genocide?  quote:There’s also practical considerations, like that I am in a red state, not that it matters; voting is as much a cultural ritual of individual moral expiation as it is a meaningful political act, and I’d argue it’s much, much more the former than the latter in the current political system, where so little policy is based on what the majority of citizens could actually benefit from. I hate to tell you this, but that red state won't change unless people vote. By submitting to nothing matters-isms you are directly playing right into what the assholes want. quote:And to your last point, there are two things. First, all political choices are about throwing somebody under a bus; you may think that my political choices throw vulnerable people here in the states under the bus, whereas I believe the choice to vote for either major party candidate does as much to throw other vulnerable people in the US and abroad under the bus. I think that were both probably right, either choice is picking a loser, and maybe not even any winners. My dude, you have literally just espoused the essence of "both sides are equally bad" while ignoring what people mentioned up above. You're also essentially saying "Yes, these vulnerable minorities will die for my dream! But that is a sacrifice I am willing to make them take!" which is just a lovely opinion all around no matter how you cut it. quote:As for the second part, on the likelihood of political upheaval in the imperial core, I don’t know if some enormous political shock will happen in my lifetime, one that offers the revolutionary moment, but would you really be so surprised? We spent four years after 2016 as a nation reeling at what felt like a fever dream at times, and yet further political upheaval doesn’t seem likely to you? You think it’s going to be fewer protests, less widening of the gap between rich and poor, less desperation, less neglect? Because as I’ve said, I don’t think the political institutions as they’re constituted under the political economy we labor under are capable of arresting the slide. I think they will become less able to make people feel like their lives are improved by government as the extraction of wealth from the working people of America only gets more craven, and the forces of law and order are sent out to oppress people with less and less to lose as the years go on. Can you cite your sources on this happening? Because this is literally just fantastical wishing from what i've seen. I doubt that not voting is suddenly going to make the world a better place, and you seem to be operating under a bunch of imaginary preconceptions about how results are traditionally won. Archonex fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Oct 27, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 06:42
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Josef bugman posted:Do you think that a) is not still the likeliest outcome even if the left continues to vote? No, not at all. I think that the Republican party is in structural decline, its voters are dying of old age, its ideas are unpopular, and it's deeply internally divided. I think that its increasing anti-electoralism is a sign that it is aware of its own weakness.
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Oct 27, 2023 06:46
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theCalamity posted:Should a person who is against the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians vote for those who enable the ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestinians? Should someone who is pro-choice vote for a Dem who is anti-choice? Or a transphobe? Good points, also remember to not join any socialist organizations or unions or leave your house ever because you might meet a transphobe or an anti-choicer or a genocide apologist. Like, yeah, sometimes you only have dogshit or imperfect choices. That still doesn't mean voting is pointless. burnishedfume fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Oct 27, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 06:51
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burnishedfume posted:Good points, also remember to not join any socialist organizations or unions or leave your house ever because you might meet a transphobe or an anti-choicer or a genocide apologist. Big difference between meeting someone and voting for them
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Oct 27, 2023 06:54
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 06:55
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burnishedfume posted:Good points, also remember to not join any socialist organizations or unions or leave your house ever because you might meet a transphobe or an anti-choicer or a genocide apologist. Those do not seem equivalent in any way. Going "I don't want to vote for someone who wants to do X" isn't the same as "running into" a anti choice person. Do you think that voting is endorsing people's opinions when you try to elect them or is it something completely separate? Thanqol posted:No, not at all. I think that the Republican party is in structural decline, its voters are dying of old age, its ideas are unpopular, and it's deeply internally divided. I think that its increasing anti-electoralism is a sign that it is aware of its own weakness. Sure, but the thing is that just because something is in decay doesn't mean it can't accomplish it's goals or weild power or revivify itself. Tbh I am going to spoil the ballot in the next election I can vote in because I think every political party I can vote for wants to strip rights from my fiancée.
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Oct 27, 2023 06:56
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Archonex posted:I mean, just talking events of the past few decades not wanting LGBTQ minorities to get genocided by a bunch of christian fascists taking over is something pretty much any decent person would want but you do you. predicto posted:Yeah, my trans nephew probably isn’t feeling like the “refusing to vote” point of view is actually a moral choice, It’s pretty tone deaf to his terrifying current circumstances. Digamma-F-Wau posted:Or alternatively the poster's assuming that LGBTQ folk would go through the same amount of suffering/persecution no matter what (which I'd also disagree with) burnishedfume posted:People telling you to vote are generally doing it because they want the party that has a large Christian ISIS base to not be in power and to not write laws, it's not that deep fam mutata posted:Yeah, I have little to no patience for dumbasses who don't vote for the obviously less evil candidates under whom various people would have a tangibly higher quality of life (like literally any group other than white men). Take that hand wringing and write a blogpost about it and go vote for people who want to kill and ruin fewer people. I have no time for your boring rear end philosophizing. Thanqol posted:If literally everyone on the left read your take, agreed with it, and stopped voting, what do you think would happen: Just wanted to take a second to say that it feels kinda nice to see the vast majority here saying it's worth holding your nose and voting dem. I honestly thought this was a more controversial position here. It's real easy to feel like there's no space for trans people today, but this makes it feel just a little bit like there's someone who has my back. If you've got the privilege and the energy to do it, it's worth it to be vocal about your support for marginalized communities. I know it often feels like it's just performative but someone might be listening that really needs to hear it, and that can be worth a lot.
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Oct 27, 2023 06:58
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theCalamity posted:Should a person who is against the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians vote for those who enable the ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestinians? Should someone who is pro-choice vote for a Dem who is anti-choice? Or a transphobe? Do you know how politics changes? You know, on a deep, structural level? You win multiple elections in a row. Regan won. He won by a lot, and he was succeeded by another republican. The left as a whole looked at that situation and said 'the voters seem to like Regan's policies', and they didn't want to keep losing elections, so they broadly adopted a bunch of Regan's policies and thus came Clinton. Since then it's gone back and forth between left and right like a metronome and change has never had a chance to dig in. People still aren't running to the left of Regan because the left hasn't won federally multiple times in a row. If you have 20 years of uninterrupted democratic control of the government then politics will be unrecognizable and the Right will have abandoned the majority of its current policies just to stay relevant. Biden was never going to be elected and Pass Socialism. But if Clinton beat Trump in 2016 then the Romney wing of the Republicans would be ascendant and they'd be focused on budget deficits and economic policy rather than the domionist stuff they are in now, and the democratic party would need to move further to the left to compete. And on and on it goes. But right now both left and right are pro-Israel because the contest is too tight for the left to explore its own opinions in detail and that's not a situation that's helped by voter apathy.
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Oct 27, 2023 06:58
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Josef bugman posted:Sure, but the thing is that just because something is in decay doesn't mean it can't accomplish it's goals or weild power or revivify itself. Tbh I am going to spoil the ballot in the next election I can vote in because I think every political party I can vote for wants to strip rights from my fiancée. "Because the Republican party might revivify itself, I'm not going to vote". You're so afraid that it might make a comeback, so rather than putting the boot in when it's on the ropes you're going to give up entirely. I would like you to imagine you saying those words to Mitch McConnel or *checks notes* Mike Johnson. What's the expression on his face? Is he happy?
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Oct 27, 2023 07:05
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Josef bugman posted:Those do not seem equivalent in any way. Going "I don't want to vote for someone who wants to do X" isn't the same as "running into" a anti choice person. I was making a joke, that bringing up the possibility of a race in which all candidates suck equally or have the same regressive view on the same issues as an argument for why voting doesn't matter is dumb. I'm sorry for making a joke and will refrain from this in the future. quote:Do you think that voting is endorsing people's opinions when you try to elect them or is it something completely separate? I refer back to my previous post; it's not that deep, I just want the party that has a goal of implementing Christian theocracy to not be in power. Voting can help prevent this a lot easier than not voting can.
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Oct 27, 2023 07:07
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theCalamity posted:Should a person who is against the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians vote for those who enable the ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestinians? Should someone who is pro-choice vote for a Dem who is anti-choice? Or a transphobe? If both options were transphobes, but one of them was a radical Zionist who wanted Palestine completely wiped out, and the other was pushing for a ceasefire leading to an eventual two state solution, then you bet I'd vote for the pro-Palestinian transphobe over the ethnic cleansing transphobe. If I'm going down anyway I'm gonna save as many people as I can on the way down.
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Oct 27, 2023 07:11
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Thanqol posted:"Because the Republican party might revivify itself, I'm not going to vote". You're so afraid that it might make a comeback, so rather than putting the boot in when it's on the ropes you're going to give up entirely. More along the lines of "the GOP will use it's none electoral power base to achieve it's goals" means it is still likely to achieve it's goals regardless of if you vote or not. Mate I live in the UK and everyone is trying to strip rights from trans people. Who should I vote for if none of them are doing anything but harm to the people I love? And if I have to make that decision then give the same rights to others to make it on their own moral values.
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Oct 27, 2023 07:12
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Josef bugman posted:More along the lines of "the GOP will use it's none electoral power base to achieve it's goals" means it is still likely to achieve it's goals regardless of if you vote or not. Who won the last few UK elections? Do you think there is a connection?
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Oct 27, 2023 07:16
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