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Yeah you don't want to be exposed to 5-FU unless you actually need it. The toxicity is way up there. Chemotherapy is poison after all.
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Oct 25, 2023 12:27
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iospace posted:You're the one being exposed to it deliberately, the nurses are not. Also kick cancer's rear end for us. Intellectually I know that, but it's still an odd feeling. Of the 5 infusions I've had across 3 hospitals, 3 of them were given to me by nurses in their 3rd trimester, which seems like a lot, and risky, but they know what they're doing and it's a nice hopeful thing to see in those miserable chemo clinics. Thanks for the encouragement and for teaching me something! I love these dead comedy forums after all these years.
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Oct 25, 2023 13:25
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ttam posted:I just had 5-FU pumped into me for 48 straight hours for the 5th time. Cancer sucks but it's always a trip to watch the staff suit up like it's a zombie movie while I am sitting there in a t-shirt and sweats. Cancer sucks, kick its rear end!
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Oct 25, 2023 14:53
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I get to mix up those 48hour bags of 5FU, it's very little mixing and a lot of chasing bubbles out of the tubing and removing all air from the bag/system while maintaining a closed system. It's almost completely the stock 50mg/mL solution with enough normal saline aded to reach the volume necessary to maintain the desired rate of infusion for the duration of treatment. Fun fact, 5FU can start to crystallize out of solution at room temperature, so we always put it in a warmer for at least an hour before we draw it up. I once dropped and broke a 50mL vial of the stuff inside the chemo compounding room because for whatever dumbass reason we were using a loving electric blanket that we would just roll up vials in instead of a proper medication warmer holy poo poo how did no one ever think this a problem before. We had three pumps to make that morning so it was jammed loving full and the vial just dropped out the end. This was what it finally took to get a proper warming cabinet. Even hospitals try to cut corners, especially with the safety of replaceable employees like technicians. At least I was already in scrubs, double shoe covers, gown, double gloves, etc. with a PAPR right there to put on immediately since it can produce vapors when spilled. Mercifully I was not splashed at all and we're sane enough to have a spill kit right there. At least it wasn't doxorubicin or BCG.
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Oct 25, 2023 15:01
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It still kinda blows my mind that the majority of cancer treatment is still 'poison the person and hope the cancer dies before the patient'
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Oct 25, 2023 18:08
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Kitfox88 posted:It still kinda blows my mind that the majority of cancer treatment is still 'poison the person and hope the cancer dies before the patient' It helps that cancerous cells tend to have massive uptakes of junk vs healthy cells.
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Oct 25, 2023 18:19
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The Pharma industry is going hard on immunotherapy for cancer treatments for good reason. Some of that effort is even working out personalized vaccines for some cancers.
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Oct 25, 2023 18:42
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They treated my sister with carboplatin and Keytruda, she went into pathological complete response, and then they said "Well, let's keep you on the Keytruda for another six months because it's so well-tolerated and it seems to improve outcomes." The therapies are becoming very targeted.
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Oct 25, 2023 18:49
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I did two years of Keytruda and the only side effect I had was improved vision. It's some wild poo poo. Literally from "you got two years to live" in 2016 with stage IV colon cancer to "you're likely cured, but it's so new that we don't know  "
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Oct 25, 2023 18:56
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Kitfox88 posted:It still kinda blows my mind that the majority of cancer treatment is still 'poison the person and hope the cancer dies before the patient' That's how pretty much all medicines work. They're all poisons, it's just a matter of dosage. Ibuprofen works great as a pain reliever in small doses. Take too much, and it will destroy your liver. The main problem with chemotherapy drugs is that generally the dosage differential between killing cancer cells and killing normal cells is pretty small.
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Oct 25, 2023 18:59
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Deteriorata posted:That's how pretty much all medicines work. They're all poisons, it's just a matter of dosage. I thought acetaminophen (Tylenol) was the one that destroyed your liver, ibuprofen (Advil) was the one that destroyed your stomach/kidneys?
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Oct 25, 2023 19:13
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Shooting Blanks posted:I thought acetaminophen (Tylenol) was the one that destroyed your liver, ibuprofen (Advil) was the one that destroyed your stomach/kidneys? This is correct.
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Oct 25, 2023 19:17
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"The dose makes the poison" goes all the way back to Paracelsus, and it's been understood since long, long before that. It's the first principle of toxicology. In terms of oncology it's one of the reasons that finding out your cancer is an aggressive variety can actually be good news, because since they grow so fast they absorb nutrients - and poisons - faster than the rest of the body, and the chemotherapy works that much better with relatively lower doses. The tradeoff is you have to find them fast and early or else they spread farther than is ideal. Lemniscate Blue has a new favorite as of 19:41 on Oct 25, 2023 |
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Oct 25, 2023 19:37
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Biology is amazingly horrific in myriad ways, huh.
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Oct 25, 2023 19:38
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Deteriorata posted:That's how pretty much all medicines work. They're all poisons, it's just a matter of dosage. There's a difference between a chemical that does good things and bad, where there's a point beyond which the cure is worse than the disease; and a treatment that literally works by killing a part of you faster than the rest of you. Imo it's uniquely wacky in a way that the existence of side effects isn't. Blue Footed Booby has a new favorite as of 20:02 on Oct 25, 2023 |
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Oct 25, 2023 19:46
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Deteriorata posted:That's how pretty much all medicines work. They're all poisons, it's just a matter of dosage. Well no. Paracetamol is poison because its metabolite kills livers. NSAIDs are murder on your stomach because inhibiting COX also inhibits stomach mucus. I feel theres a difference where the poison is incidental or a side effect, and to where the drug is used because of those effects and its only distinction from poison is that it has a predictable physiological response and a reasonable therapeutic index.
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Oct 25, 2023 19:56
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If I had a dollar for every time something gets approved because it has a "reasonable therapeutic index" I'd have a shitload of dollars. Sometimes drugs are just like that.
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Oct 25, 2023 20:55
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So they reduced amount of days our hydroxyurea (also a cytotoxic chemo drug but does wonders for sickle cell) suspension is good for from 90 days to 35. Thanks USP 795! gently caress me. At least it's a quick one to make (last one I did was 5 minutes from "ingredient check to final check"), but it's still tedious that we got hosed like that. A few others got hit as well, which sucks poo poo. But a few of our 14 day ones got upped to 35 so it's a wash, i guess Another fun chemo drug that's used for other things is good ol' methotrexate as well, for auto-immune disorders. iospace has a new favorite as of 00:59 on Oct 26, 2023 |
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Oct 26, 2023 00:54
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Oldsrocket_27 posted:At least it wasn't doxorubicin or BCG. BCG as in the vaccine? Is that so horrible or are you talking something else?
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Oct 26, 2023 02:49
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NLJP posted:BCG as in the vaccine? Is that so horrible or are you talking something else? Close, it's still Bacillus Calmette-Guerin but instead of a live attenuated vaccine it's a dry live culture that we reconstitute for bladder irrigation. It comes lyophilized so if you break a vial you basically spread a fine tuberculosis powder across the some amount of the room.
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Oct 26, 2023 03:57
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Horrifying, hope your shots were up to date 
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Oct 26, 2023 04:02
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Kwyndig posted:If I had a dollar for every time something gets approved because it has a "reasonable therapeutic index" I'd have a shitload of dollars. Sometimes drugs are just like that. Newly approved drug with a reasonable therapeutic index of "it exists i guess, if you squint"
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Oct 26, 2023 11:07
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Newly approved drug with a reasonable therapeutic index of "it exists i guess, if you squint" Ah, the BioGen method.
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Oct 26, 2023 13:19
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I just wish my dermo had been more forthcoming about Accutane when I took it in the mid/late 90s. If I knew it was a loving chemo drug I'd have never taken it and just dealt with the acne. On the plus side, it completely desensitized me to needles through the compulsory blood draws (which should've been a goddamned clue in retrospect) every month.
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Oct 27, 2023 07:02
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BIG HEADLINE posted:I just wish my dermo had been more forthcoming about Accutane when I took it in the mid/late 90s. You know, I've heard about Accutane for years and this is probably the right thread to ask: What is it ... like? What does it actually do, both in its primary treatment effect and the various side effects? How does it do what it does? (to the extent this is understood, given the whole "This works!" "How?" "pretty well!" "but how does it do it?" "no clue." thing previously mentioned about other drugs.) I ask because around that same time period, my older brother took it for dealing with his (as best as I can remember) pretty severe acne. All I can really remember of it from the time was, as a ten year old, finding the pregnancy warnings very funny (as it was, you know, being taken by my teenage brother and I was picturing people telling him to not become pregnant).
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Oct 27, 2023 07:48
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It cures the gently caress out of your acne. While screwing you up in every other possible way.
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Oct 27, 2023 07:51
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Oldsrocket_27 posted:Close, it's still Bacillus Calmette-Guerin but instead of a live attenuated vaccine it's a dry live culture that we reconstitute for bladder irrigation. It comes lyophilized so if you break a vial you basically spread a fine tuberculosis powder across the some amount of the room. I have to know, why do you irrigate peoples bladders with TB juice??
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Oct 27, 2023 09:24
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The Lone Badger posted:It cures the gently caress out of your acne. That describes my brother's teenage years pretty accurately. 
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Oct 27, 2023 09:29
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Its the good tuberculosis, the one that you want to get.
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Oct 27, 2023 09:34
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occluded posted:I have to know, why do you irrigate peoples bladders with TB juice?? It's a treatment for bladder cancer. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/17908-bacillus-calmette-guerin-bcg-treatment There's similar treatments for other cancers: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fbioe.2022.1026248/full
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Oct 27, 2023 11:15
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pfff tuberculosis. It's like a flu.
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Oct 27, 2023 11:18
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occluded posted:I have to know, why do you irrigate peoples bladders with TB juice?? don't do the crime if you can't do the time
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Oct 27, 2023 11:35
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Vavrek posted:You know, I've heard about Accutane for years and this is probably the right thread to ask: What is it ... like? What does it actually do, both in its primary treatment effect and the various side effects? How does it do what it does? (to the extent this is understood, given the whole "This works!" "How?" "pretty well!" "but how does it do it?" "no clue." thing previously mentioned about other drugs.) Lips chapped to the point of bleeding, bloody boogers, dry skin. Meanwhile, the worst of your acne just...goes away. You literally just stop getting the bad cystic kind entirely. You'll get the occasional pimple, but from that point on your skin is a bit different, even after you stop taking it. Incidentally, this is how it's used to prevent certain kinds of skin cancer, in my understanding. It's not technically a chemo drug. The string "chemo" doesn't appear in the Wikipedia article. When I was on it, every single pill blister had a little pregnant lady with a 🚫 over it. Blue Footed Booby has a new favorite as of 12:25 on Oct 27, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 12:19
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BIG HEADLINE posted:I just wish my dermo had been more forthcoming about Accutane when I took it in the mid/late 90s. ...you got blood draws?
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Oct 27, 2023 12:30
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90s Cringe Rock posted:...you got blood draws? Me too, a shitload. It's explicitly recommended by the drug's packaging.
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Oct 27, 2023 12:33
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90s Cringe Rock posted:...you got blood draws? Every month before they would provide a new prescription. One time my liver levels were high because I had been drinking (I was a stupid college freshman) and I got yelled at and they wouldn't give a prescription for another week when my levels were back to normal. I didn't have a lot of the really bad side effects, at least not that I remember, but yeah, my acne just went away
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Oct 27, 2023 13:08
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lol oh well
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Oct 27, 2023 13:41
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Vavrek posted:You know, I've heard about Accutane for years and this is probably the right thread to ask: What is it ... like? What does it actually do, both in its primary treatment effect and the various side effects? How does it do what it does? (to the extent this is understood, given the whole "This works!" "How?" "pretty well!" "but how does it do it?" "no clue." thing previously mentioned about other drugs.) Isotretinoin induces cell death in your sebaceous glands, meaning your skin oil production is greatly decreased. That's certainly a good way to prevent acne, but since your skin oils exist for a reason, it also leads to the chapped lips, dry cracked skin, etc. The compound is very similar to vitamin A, but just a little bit different. "Almost the same as a critical biological compound, but nnnot quiiiiite!" is often a recipe for a really bad day, because your body tries to use it like the normal stuff but it doesn't work right. For instance you can look at cyanide, which binds to hemoglobin just like oxygen does but which obviously does not work like oxygen, or strontium-90, a radioactive fallout product that your body can't tell apart from calcium, so it sucks it into your bones. And of course most of the nerve gases work by imitating acetylcholine, a critical neurotransmitter, but they're just different enough that when they bind to the neurotransmitter enzymes they can't be released, permanently disabling that synapse. (I don't know enough of the biology to say for sure, but I suspect that that's the whole reason isotretinoin works in the first place: something about your sebaceous glands trying to use the fake knockoff vitamin A and dying). That's why there's the pregnancy warnings. Vitamin A is of course a critical nutrient and it has effects throughout your whole body, including on tissue development. The growing fetus doesn't distinguish between real vitamin A and this fake hosed up one, and as a result the compound is one of the most powerful mutagens we know. IIRC women of childbearing age taking accutane are required, or at least strongly recommended, to also be on two forms of birth control, and if they do become pregnant while on the drug, termination is recommended as a matter of course.  A college roommate of mine was on it and the main thing I remember was that he got sunburned by fluorescent lights. Sagebrush has a new favorite as of 16:24 on Oct 27, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 16:15
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Sagebrush posted:The compound is very similar to vitamin A, but just a little bit different. "Almost the same as a critical biological compound, but nnnot quiiiiite!" is often a recipe for a really bad day, because your body tries to use it like the normal stuff but it doesn't work right. For instance you can look at cyanide, which binds to hemoglobin just like oxygen does, or strontium-90, a radioactive fallout product that your body can't tell apart from calcium, so it sucks it into your bones. And of course most of the nerve gases work by imitating acetylcholine, a critical neurotransmitter, but they're just different enough that when they bind to the neurotransmitter enzymes they can't be released, permanently disabling that synapse. One of my old posts in this thread is related to this, as a cancer treatment. ATRA (all trans retinoic acid) vs a particular type of leukemia. e: took me a minute to find the post. Icon Of Sin posted:Depends, every cancer is different and progresses differently. This is why its such a tough nut to crack. Icon Of Sin has a new favorite as of 16:24 on Oct 27, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 16:20
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Rust Martialis posted:It's a treatment for bladder cancer. I saw a draft of a med paper this year about a sex worker contracting oral TB after performing oral sex on a man who was being treated with TB bladder cancer treatment. (You are supposed to abstain from sex with this treatment). I will see if I can dig that up. Fake Edit: Found the classic where 4 dudes all got the clap from the same blow up sex doll.
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Oct 27, 2023 16:33
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