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Pvt. Parts posted:Questioning facts, statistics, etc. and getting to the truth is hallowed ground and should have unlimited clemency, no matter the supposed "intention", real or perceived. Truth, what actually happened as a matter of reality, is really all we have to unite discussion no matter the topic and is a valid intent in and of itself. Consider how much time and energy is spent with regards to figuring out what has actually happened with respect to any major event, let alone it's ramifications. This argument is so laughably bad and is essentially the heart of Holocaust denialism When you start ranking otherwise reputable sources so you can "just ask" unreasonable questions you're not helping the discussion in any way Sometimes you can't objectively prove something and have to take all the available evidence to it's logical conclusion without coming up with elaborate scenarios to disprove the available evidence Engorged Pedipalps fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Oct 27, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 19:29
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I called them doing this day 1. They had absolutely no need to enter with a ground force until they had turned most of the city into ruins. They have complete air superiority and can observe all of Gaza at all times to do artillery/airstrikes at whatever the hell they want - which is what they've been doing for weeks now. There are videos of them just looking at Hamas rocket batteries from the sky in perfect clear HD video and then counter-striking the rocket batteries before they're even done with their salvo. The next step will be to slowly move ground troops in but really only to use them to lure whatever is left of Hamas out in the open so they can be ground to dust by more artillery and airstrikes. Though it's hard to tell how much of Hamas is left at this point because I never got a good idea of how many militants they had in the first place
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Oct 27, 2023 19:31
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fuctifino posted:https://twitter.com/kakasloi/status/1717940644973326631 Is this the beginning of a ground assault. Taking down comms, carpet bombing to soften them up ahead of troops moving in
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Oct 27, 2023 19:36
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They've announced that they're "expanding their ground operations", although it's not clear if that means they're sending in the full invasion yet.
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Oct 27, 2023 19:40
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Marenghi posted:Is this the beginning of a ground assault. Taking down comms, carpet bombing to soften them up ahead of troops moving in IDF made a statement that they were "expanding the ground operation" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUkGS0f2Z5Q So this is the start of something, and by the scale of the bombardment I'd say most likely the main operation. Though it might still be slower than expected since no one knows exactly what will happen as more troops enter combat, so the IDF will constantly be adjusting as events unfold.
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Oct 27, 2023 19:43
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This is the beginning of their demise.
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Oct 27, 2023 19:45
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If it's the main operation it looks like Netanyahu isn't listening to Biden's request for more time to deliver more defense military equipment along with the UNs request for some kind of temporary cease fire to deliver additional aid to Gaza. But I am not surprised.
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Oct 27, 2023 19:47
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https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1717934385352048766 Hmm, maybe Iran are really the bad guys here 
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Oct 27, 2023 20:01
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Stringent posted:So there's two stories of Hamas conducting executions near the hospital, but the original clam was, That's a pretty big coincidence of why Hamas would use that location to take care of political dissidents And maybe another coincidence of why Shifa happened to be the location of an improvised broadcast studio by Al Jazeera when interviewing Hamas' spokesmen Mushir al-Masri So, yea, while it's impossible to 100% prove that it's the HQ, it seems extremely likely that it is. Or at least was up until at least 2014. E: Removed stuff about the health minister, that was stupid of me, sorry Kalit fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Oct 27, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 20:02
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I took stay in the same building for a decade while I am regularly bombed.
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Oct 27, 2023 20:07
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Civilized Fishbot posted:This was my thought at first but we are talking about different hospitals. There's al-Ahli Arab Hospital that they claim they didn't bomb, and al-Shifa Hospital that they're saying is on top of a Hamas base. that's the one with 40,000 civilians sheltering in it
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Oct 27, 2023 20:09
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Once Israel finishes this project, and 2 million people have been killed or exiled from the Gaza strip, do you think that the presence of a Hamas super secret base (shown here in extremely believable and not just made up high tech 3d render) under a hospital that was levelled by Israeli bombs, is going to move the needle very much? like, oh yeah dang I totally would have thought this was a genocide but it turns out there was a Hamas super secret base under every man woman and child in the entire territory, so the indiscriminate slaughter of countless civilians was actually a prudent and reserved move by the only democracy in the middle east. Also, it makes no sense that Hamas would keep building its super secret bases under hospitals, schools, etc, because Israel has no qualms about leveling civilian centers for any reason. they love blowing up hospitals, its probably safer to put your base under a seven loving eleven. Also also, if I was in possession of knowledge of my enemies super secret base, I would use that knowledge for my military operations, I wouldn't just yell it out over the internet, giving them plenty of time to move to a new spot.
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Oct 27, 2023 20:17
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celadon posted:Once Israel finishes this project, and 2 million people have been killed or exiled from the Gaza strip, do you think that the presence of a Hamas super secret base (shown here in extremely believable and not just made up high tech 3d render) under a hospital that was levelled by Israeli bombs, is going to move the needle very much? like, oh yeah dang I totally would have thought this was a genocide but it turns out there was a Hamas super secret base under every man woman and child in the entire territory, so the indiscriminate slaughter of countless civilians was actually a prudent and reserved move by the only democracy in the middle east. Ehh... as much leeway as Israel has in the international community, I think there would be irredeemable backlash if they actually directly bombed Shifa. Otherwise, they would have done it by now. If Hamas is located there, moved elsewhere with much less civilians present at all hours, and Israel found out where, they would immediate level it.
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Oct 27, 2023 20:21
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Kalit posted:In addition to what others had posted, there's this article which includes the following: Can you really not think of any other reason why the Palestinian Authority's health minister might want to visit the largest hospital in Gaza right after an Israeli bombardment and invasion killed 2,000+ people and wounded 10,000+? I'm trying real hard to be nice here, but this is the kind of absurdity I'd expect to hear from a conspiracy theorist. Similarly, journalists setting up a studio there isn't surprising since the place is more likely to have power (something that's useful to have for a studio) and less likely to be bombed (something journalists generally don't want to happen to them). Seriously, if you want to say that Hamas' main military command center is in an underground base below a hospital, you need more than "a few Hamas members were occasionally sighted in or near the hospital". I wouldn't expect better from Algemeiner, an openly pro-Israel paper known for its particularly harsh bias against Palestinians, but I'd expect better from D&D posters.
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Oct 27, 2023 20:28
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Kalit posted:Ehh... as much leeway as Israel has in the international community, I think there would be irredeemable backlash if they actually directly bombed Shifa. Otherwise, they would have done it by now. Didn't they cut comms completely anyways? How would we know otherwise E2M2 fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Oct 27, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 20:32
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In my personal opinion: Israel failed to realize that a large-scale Hamas attack, trained in advance for a year, where Hamas trained soldiers to use paragliders in broad daylight, was going to occur. Anyone who believes they actually have an extensive map of Hamas' underground tunnel & base network is looking for a reason to support the bombing.Main Paineframe posted:Can you really not think of any other reason why the Palestinian Authority's health minister might want to visit the largest hospital in Gaza right after an Israeli bombardment and invasion killed 2,000+ people and wounded 10,000+? I'm trying real hard to be nice here, but this is the kind of absurdity I'd expect to hear from a conspiracy theorist. This really does go back to the fact that people don't understand that Palestinians have actual government institutions.
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Oct 27, 2023 20:33
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In case you were wondering what all that bluster would amount to when the chips were down edit: removed as I can't find the specific source. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Oct 27, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 20:40
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Nail Rat posted:In case you were wondering what all that bluster would amount to when the chips were down Just beyond barbaric and cruel. it is impossible for me to support biden in any capacity going forward.
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Oct 27, 2023 20:45
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Nail Rat posted:In case you were wondering what all that bluster would amount to when the chips were down this is how you get another 9/11
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Oct 27, 2023 20:47
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Nail Rat posted:In case you were wondering what all that bluster would amount to when the chips were down I wish they would note the source, I can't find anything about it and there's no live white house press briefing E: Removed tweet since OP did Kalit fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Oct 27, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 20:49
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Kalit posted:I wish they would note the source, I can't find anything about it and there's no live white house press briefing I'll remove that for now, but kind of find it believable. But can't find any briefing. This, however https://twitter.com/oftheroyalblood/status/1717985328642896052
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Oct 27, 2023 20:50
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Hey I hope this is appropriate to post on here; I was sent this and have been sending to tons of friend and posting it everywhere today. if you have time CALL senators today, leave messages and email. TODAY please. You can find your reps here: https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative Here is a script to help, it can also connect you to your reps one after the other: https://act.uscpr.org/a/callforgaza#!
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Oct 27, 2023 20:52
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Gaylor Moon posted:Hey I hope this is appropriate to post on here; I was sent this and have been sending to tons of friend and posting it everywhere today. if you have time CALL senators today, leave messages and email. TODAY please. Mine responded back to me a week ago saying basically they dont give a gently caress and Israel can do whatever they want. This is a democrat member too. both parties suck poo poo.
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Oct 27, 2023 20:55
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Kalit posted:I wish they would note the source, I can't find anything about it and there's no live white house press briefing I could only find this statement from October 10. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/foreign/israel-war-white-house-no-red-lines-netanyahu-downplays-gaza-siege quote:“I’m not here to draw red lines or issue warnings or give lectures to anybody,” Sullivan said. “I’m here to say that the president has given us direction to take a series of actions. We are undertaking those actions, and we will continue to do so.” I think someone upthread mentioned that Spectator Index wasn't a particularly reliable source. Nail Rat posted:I'll remove that for now, but kind of find it believable. But can't find any briefing. This, however Already deleted, it appears.
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Oct 27, 2023 20:58
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I said come in! posted:Mine responded back to me a week ago saying basically they dont give a gently caress and Israel can do whatever they want. This is a democrat member too. both parties suck poo poo. Oh lovely, what a show of compassion and support for human life that I'm sure they'll loving tout they have. Ugh.
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Oct 27, 2023 21:05
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My congressional reps are Dan Goldman and Chuck Schumer. I'm pretty sure emailing either of them saying that I think killing Palestinians is bad would get me put on a no fly list.
mrmcd fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Oct 27, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 21:06
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I think this is the source of the red line quote, it's from todayJohn Kirby posted:“We’re not drawing red lines for Israel,” Kirby said Friday on a call with reporters. “We’re going to continue to support them” but “since the very beginning we have, and will continue to have, conversations about the manner that they are doing this.”
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Oct 27, 2023 21:19
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Paladinus posted:I could only find this statement from October 10. Wikipedia says the Spectator Index is apparently a random doctor in Australia; at a minimum the account tries to pass itself off as an actual journalistic outlet.
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Oct 27, 2023 21:20
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My mayor and my governor are both zionists, Schumer is a Zionist to the bone. No amount of pleading will ever sate their bloodlust for Palestinian genocide.
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Oct 27, 2023 21:21
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Willo567 posted:I think this is the source of the red line quote, it's from today It feels like their conversations are not going anywhere or secretly the Biden admin is just saying “kill’em all.”
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Oct 27, 2023 21:23
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I said come in! posted:It feels like their conversations are not going anywhere or secretly the Biden admin is just saying “kill’em all.” iran hawks are clearly having a field day with the current administration
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Oct 27, 2023 21:25
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I said come in! posted:It feels like their conversations are not going anywhere or secretly the Biden admin is just saying “kill’em all.” I imagine even in the absolute bar-none best possible outcome Israel is well aware they can go "You can't actually give us any meaningful pushback without committing political suicide so lol, gently caress you." Which is of course the best outcome and assumes a genuine serious behind the scenes push, which isn't super likely.
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Oct 27, 2023 21:27
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Willo567 posted:I think this is the source of the red line quote, it's from today Thanks for finding this. It seems to be a bit different than that tweet, as it doesn't mention Kirby saying Israel owes no one any justification. But this isn't a full transcript either, of course (and looking for one comes up empty).
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Oct 27, 2023 21:27
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Kalit posted:That's a pretty big coincidence of why Hamas would use that location to take care of political dissidents Seems weird to draw this conclusion and as a rule I find implications that draw Al Jazeera to terrorism racist and nauseating Hamas and Al Jazeera are not affiliated Willo567 posted:I think this is the source of the red line quote, it's from today Yes, we just draw red lines for everyone else in the middle east Engorged Pedipalps fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Oct 27, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 21:30
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Engorged Pedipalps posted:Seems weird to draw this conclusion and as a rule I find implications that draw Al Jazeera to terrorism racist and nauseating all the sources to his shoddy link are from twitter too. love the casual genocide denialism
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Oct 27, 2023 21:32
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Engorged Pedipalps posted:Seems weird to draw this conclusion and as a rule I find implications that draw Al Jazeera to terrorism racist and nauseating Huh? I never claimed and wasn't trying to imply they were affiliated. I'm guessing Al Jazeera were just wanting to have an interview with the political party in charge. I would guess Hamas would be dictating where the improvised broadcast studio was setup for the interview, which might have been a convenient/central location for them (my actual implication). Kalit fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Oct 27, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 21:41
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many, many international news organizations have broadcasted from al-shifa (and indeed probably everyone here has seen footage from there from the previous conflicts whether they realize it or not) because it has always been one of the main places that Palestinian casualties are brought to (plus you have a lower chance there of getting killed by the IDF, who are infamous for not caring particularly about journalists) like if you have ever seen a picture from a gaza hospital of wounded civilians, odds are that was al-shifa
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Oct 27, 2023 21:42
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Kalit posted:I would guess Hamas would be dictating where the improvised broadcast studio was setup for the interview, which might have been a convenient/central location for them (my actual implication). I'd more likely attribute it as akin to a president visiting wounded soldiers in US hospitals; it helps give the impression that you care & are doing something.
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Oct 27, 2023 21:51
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Some of the livestreams have a cam setup at Al-Shifa and you can always see people milling about outside. It's a very common place to see in any kind of conflict situation
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Oct 27, 2023 21:58
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I said come in! posted:It feels like their conversations are not going anywhere or secretly the Biden admin is just saying “kill’em all.” The latter seems unlikely, seeing how whiny Israeli hawks keep being about it. The Biden admin has a surprisingly strong record in backroom talks, foreign and domestic... but there's only so far that can go with Israel if they're really dedicated to the ethnic cleansing etc.
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