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Stormlight 5 speculation Have we definitively rules out the Shallan *IS* a disassociative identity of Chana possibility. Shallans mother could have been mad about the adoptive daughter being psycho and the blade in the safe could be the real true honorblade. If Heralds spawn back in the location they die the mom could have killed her, she immediately broke the seal, and rematerialized, chop chop.
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Oct 25, 2023 01:09
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Mordiceius posted:I couldn't help but mouseover this and laughed when I saw my name. Shallan's "situation" is something I knew long ago from an RL friend who is a big Stormlight fan (though oddly hasn't read much other Sanderson). He kept pushing me to finally get into the Stormlight Archives but his method was not so careful with spoilers. Basically: "So there's this guy Kaladin who is super badass and then Szeth who is an assassin and mysterious and then Shallan who can draw really well and has multiple personalities." Hell yeah, can't wait to see your end-of-WoK post. Are you going straight into WoR after that? What else have you not read yet?
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Oct 25, 2023 01:12
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pik_d posted:Hell yeah, can't wait to see your end-of-WoK post. Are you going straight into WoR after that? What else have you not read yet? I'm on a Stormlight binge for the foreseeable future. I haven't touched White Sands or the secret projects. Though, knowing who the protag is for Secret Project 4 has made some recent WoK things... interesting. This is my list: quote:CURRENT SANDERSON RANKINGS - If I get Stormlight fatigue, I might take a break and do some non-Sanderson. My wife has been making her way through The Green Bone Saga (which seems like The Godfather meets the Yakuza meets magic). I've had my eyes on The Poppy War series - so that'll probably be my respite should I fatigue on Stormlight (or catch-up/finish everything pre-SA5 next November). Mordiceius fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Oct 25, 2023 |
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Oct 25, 2023 01:28
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M_Gargantua posted:Stormlight 5 speculation Have we definitively rules out the Shallan *IS* a disassociative identity of Chana possibility. Shallans mother could have been mad about the adoptive daughter being psycho and the blade in the safe could be the real true honorblade.
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Oct 25, 2023 01:38
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Mordiceius posted:I'm on a Stormlight binge for the foreseeable future. I haven't touched White Sands or the secret projects. Though, knowing who the protag is for Secret Project 4 has made some recent WoK things... interesting. Looks like you haven't bothered with some of the other Arcanum Unbounded short stories? Shadows for SIlence in the Forest of Hell, and Sixth of the Dusk. Each of those took me one night to read and were fun little one-offs. Also surprised that Emperor's Soul is so low on the list. I can definitely understand the fatigue, I'm glad I bounced between Stormlight and Mistborn.
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Oct 25, 2023 01:41
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M_Gargantua posted:Stormlight 5 speculation Have we definitively rules out the Shallan *IS* a disassociative identity of Chana possibility. Shallans mother could have been mad about the adoptive daughter being psycho and the blade in the safe could be the real true honorblade. Stormlight 5 speculation i was thinking about this too but i feel like the narrative game of shallan's story requires the author not lying to us about things we've been told are Truths so far -- plus shallan not actually being a separate person would require a bunch of things about her brother and father to all be lies too, most everything pattern's said about the cryptics probably wrong, etc. i wouldn't say we can rule it out but i think it's a step too far and not the kind of thing brandon would do with the breadcrumbs he's given us so far. also i don't think we know Chana's specific form of Cognitive Shadow Mental Illness but she should not have any way of doing a bunch of Illusion Bullshit, she's a warrior and the Dustbringer patron with Division and Abrasion (though the Shin should have her Honorblade at that time and in theory she should not have any Radiant powers)
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Oct 25, 2023 01:42
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eke out posted:Stormlight 5 speculation
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Oct 25, 2023 01:46
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stormlight 5 part of the reason I increasingly think this is the only option is "I caused the Desolation" would be an incredible needle drop of a Fifth Ideal for her (fourth? whatever, i don't really understand Shallan's level system and i don't think it's worth stressing over) and one of the only things that is even more personally terrifying and worth hiding than the multiple people (and one spren) she's killed
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Oct 25, 2023 01:49
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pik_d posted:Looks like you haven't bothered with some of the other Arcanum Unbounded short stories? Shadows for SIlence in the Forest of Hell, and Sixth of the Dusk. Each of those took me one night to read and were fun little one-offs. Also surprised that Emperor's Soul is so low on the list. Yeah, those are two that I'll probably throw in randomly. Checking my Arcanum audiobook, it looks like both are just north of 2 hours each. Should be quick to breeze through. As for Emperor's Soul, I don't think it's a bad story. And I know that it is very highly regarded in these parts. I just think that there are a lot of other books that I like more. Emperor's Soul was a fine story. It didn't blow me away, but I enjoyed my time with it. If I were to break the books down into tiers, it would probably look more like this: quote:S-Tier (Best of the best)
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Oct 25, 2023 01:51
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I agree with all your assumptions and consider that as conclusive. I still hold my idea that there is this trick though - M_Gargantua posted:Stormlight RoW speculation - I had a thought that maybe Shallan will have to say 7 or 8 truths, as Testament is still following her around and bonded to her, as she was able to summon a Testament blade in WoK even before speaking the first truth to Pattern in WoK Ch 45. That first technical truth spoken to Pattern was "I am Terrified", so by that count she's already at four truths on screen as of RoW. So I think maybe she has a truth deficit to pay back in parallel, having both a dead and living spren bonded. The one or two unknown truth's she spoke as a kid to Testament that granted blade. Right now we know that Lightweavers get both Illumination and Transformation before blade. So with some conjecture - "I am Terrified" was the first truth spoken to pattern, granting her soulcasting which she used to create the bloody mess, and "I killed my father" gave her access to Pattern as a blade, which is what she used to kill Tyn and lend to Kaladin. So now she's caught up to where she was originally before Testament died. That makes "I killed my mother" her fourth ideal, but one given to Testament, and "I killed Testament" her fourth idea, spoken to Pattern. I think then she now qualifies for Plate, and she'll have to swear two more to complete the fifth. A problem the original knights or shard bearers didn't have, and a unique case.
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Oct 25, 2023 01:52
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yeah things are basically too messy surrounding that stuff to do anything more than guess, just gotta wait and see how brandon handles it all stormlight complicating it further, there's a good chance she already has Plate by the end of Oathbringer and just isn't consciously aware of it too, since she freaks out and stops thinking about it when Adolin asks her about it + jasnah catches a glimpse of Radiant in plate
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Oct 25, 2023 01:58
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eke out posted:yeah things are basically too messy surrounding that stuff to do anything more than guess, just gotta wait and see how brandon handles it eke out posted:stormlight 5 And I'll strongly disagree with you on her Fifth Ideal (and Fourth Truth -- everyone gets the same First Ideal). It literally has to be "I deserve to be loved". Much in the same way that there's no way Kaladin's Fourth was anything other than "I accept there will be those I cannot save", her entire story has been pointing there from square one and it's what literally everything has been building to. If she can say that, accept it, internalize it as truth, she's completed her character arc. Only then.
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Oct 25, 2023 02:06
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well yeah i agree that is what this is all going towards, just shallan's truths are things she has to confront so she can contextualize her actions and forgive herself, that earlier truth isn't "No one can hold a child culpable for an accidental killing in self-defense", that's what she takes away once she's capable of admitting the underlying facts. i won't be mad if it's other words though, i just think that it must be about acknowledging who her mother is, who she in turn is, and what the deal is that put a child in these insane scenarios, because that's what's required to finally get to "but i still deserved to be loved" or whatever and there's plenty of both textual hints and explicit wobs (as of the end of oathbringer she's a 'level' ahead of kaladin, she could have sworn all her truths but not remember them) that some broader entity "shallan" is a part of has plate by end of oathbringer. it's just not a useful thing to argue about because the Shallan that is our main character doesn't know she has access to it then and, presumably, will now be able to consciously admit it post-RoW eke out fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Oct 25, 2023 |
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Oct 25, 2023 02:27
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Man, I really need to reread Stormlight. I don't remember any of this poo poo. Like, it's all familiar, but all the details are just toast. Probably because I read the entire cosmere over the pandemic one after the other. I definitely don't remember anything from Mistborn era 2 except the fight in the warehouse and some of the cool new Allomantic powers.
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Oct 25, 2023 03:45
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eke out posted:well yeah i agree that is what this is all going towards, just shallan's truths are things she has to confront so she can contextualize her actions and forgive herself, that earlier truth isn't "No one can hold a child culpable for an accidental killing in self-defense", that's what she takes away once she's capable of admitting the underlying facts. i won't be mad if it's other words though, i just think that it must be about acknowledging who her mother is, who she in turn is, and what the deal is that put a child in these insane scenarios, because that's what's required to finally get to "but i still deserved to be loved" or whatever Then by my theory (Stormlight 5 Speculation, and wild unfounded speculation at that) Her fifth ideal to Testament will be "I deserve to be loved" and then her fifth Ideal to Pattern will be "I caused the Desolation (by killing my mother, Chana, The Herald)", which gives her both Truths and pays off the backlog debt with Testament still being bonded but not alive.
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Oct 25, 2023 04:29
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M_Gargantua posted:Then by my theory (Stormlight 5 Speculation, and wild unfounded speculation at that) Her fifth ideal to Testament will be "I deserve to be loved" and then her fifth Ideal to Pattern will be "I caused the Desolation (by killing my mother, Chana, The Herald)", which gives her both Truths and pays off the backlog debt with Testament still being bonded but not alive. And, more importantly, even if it's true, it's not a Truth. That's not how they work. You can't just list any four facts and get your full powerset, or else every Lightweaver would swear the First Ideal and then just immediately recite the colors of four nearby objects, or the day's weather, or what they had for some recent meals. It's got to be something deeply personal about yourself that you'd rather not acknowledge, but that facing head-on will cause you to experience positive personal growth. Even if we grant all of the assumptions behind it -- Chana was Shallan's mom, killing her was the sole and proximate cause of the Desolation -- it doesn't loving matter! Shallan didn't mean to do that, she didn't know she was doing that, she didn't want to do that, she didn't understand how Desolations even worked to even consider the idea of doing it. She meant to kill her mom; she's got to own that. She didn't mean to destroy her family but it's a forseeable outcome of killing your mom; if Testament needs Truths too (and you guys are getting so far ahead of yourselves on that one, we don't know anything about how the Deadeye Knights are gonna work yet), "I ruined my family" would be a valid one... except that Shallan already knows that, it's not something she ducks away from. But causing the Desolation? That's not her truth.
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Oct 25, 2023 04:47
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Stormlight 5 speculation My personal theory is that our core radiant cast are used to make a revised Oathpact and they are all soulcast into stone so they never break from torture. The facts that herald faces cast in stone head chapters and the Fused merged with stone feel like big honking hints in this direction.
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Oct 25, 2023 11:35
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HidaO-Win posted:Stormlight 5 speculation My personal theory is that our core radiant cast are used to make a revised Oathpact and they are all soulcast into stone so they never break from torture. The facts that herald faces cast in stone head chapters and the Fused merged with stone feel like big honking hints in this direction. Why do that when you can just infuse stone with Identity and Connection?
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Oct 25, 2023 14:03
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HidaO-Win posted:Stormlight 5 speculation My personal theory is that our core radiant cast are used to make a revised Oathpact and they are all soulcast into stone so they never break from torture. The facts that herald faces cast in stone head chapters and the Fused merged with stone feel like big honking hints in this direction. Stormlight speculation / Secret Project 4: I like the 'Core characters become new heralds' theory, though I don't think the oathpact will exist in the same way as it did before. Sigzil says that there are still people on Roshar he cares about. Which means that some time decades (centuries?) after Stormlight 5, and presumably many years of running, some of the folks have become semi-immortal in some way or another.
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Oct 26, 2023 01:14
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My local library just today added Yumi and Sunlit Man to their ebook catalog. I was holding my phone when the notification came through about Yumi, and was still second in line to request the book. By the time I got to Sunlit Man, I was ninth in line. I guess there are more Sanderson fans in my area than I thought!
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Oct 26, 2023 21:33
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I guess I'm on the cusp of the Sanderlanche because I just got to have a viewpoint of Dalinar, Kaladin, and Adolin in one chapter. They're about to assault the Tower. Part 4 has been loving great so far. Everything is building and I'm fuckin excited to keep going. I was wondering what made part 4 so different and realized that there are no flashbacks in this part, which allows the story to build some drat momentum. The Kaladin flashbacks had constantly killed any momentum in the story.
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Oct 27, 2023 07:19
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Yeah, having multiple viewpoint characters in one chapter is almost always the sign that poo poo Will Happen. It was the same in Wheel of Time, which is probably not a coincidence, considering that Brandon is a big fan of the series.
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Oct 27, 2023 08:18
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Finished The Sunlit Man and finally caught up with this thread! I loved it. By far my favorite of all the secret project books, even though I had a lot of fun with Tress and Yumi. An incredible amount of action, story, and character work crammed into a very short book that somehow did all that without feeling rushed, though of course I definitely wanted more. Also, it has probably the best cover-art I've ever seen. All the art in the book was gorgeous, but that cover art is instantly iconic, I can't get over how great it is. And I love that all the artists are credited right on the front of the book next to the author, that's a super classy move. A lot of people have dropped specific speculations in this thread, but I want to touch on a topic that I haven't seen anyone talk about yet! Spren! Specifically, deadeye spren, part-dead spren (Aux), and totally-dead spren. At first I thought Aux was a deadeye, which was exiting, but we eventually learn that Aux is just partially dead by way of having parts of himself eaten up by a dawnshard, which is super fascinating. So far as we know, or so far as the characters on Roshar know by RoW, deadeye spren are sort-of-alive and sort-of-dead spren as a result of broken oaths. So far as we know, they can only be manifested in the physical realm as their last form, Shardblades. In SP4 though, Aux as a mostly-dead spren seems to have equivalent capability to change his physical form as a fully-alive spren does, but can't provide Sigzil with access to surges without killing himself. But even in the end, after he is (apparently??) fully dead, Sigzil is still able to change his form as freely as before. He turned him into the giant dome to save Beacon, and then later from another planet, at the very least light-years away, was still able to summon him back and change his form again. How the hell does any of that work? I know there's already plenty of speculation about what the hell will happen with deadeyes in SA5 and beyond, how does this change things? Do they just lose access to surges when dead, but their bodies are still fully in control of the person they bonded? Also, it was left very vague what happened to Sigzil's honorspren, it seemed to be implied that he both broke his oaths and didn't, and it was never elaborated on what happened to that spren. Was Aux just like "hey you broke your bond [by breaking oaths or otherwise], wanna bond me?". I'm extremely curious what happened there. Really loved the book. It completely restored my faith that SA5 is gonna kick rear end. I was really worried because RoW, while not a bad book, was absolutely crushed under terrible pacing and bloat (please god let Sanderson have a better editor for book 5), I was worried he had just become self-indulgent and lost the edge of what made books 1-3 so amazing, but now I'm extra stoked for book 5. I've been putting off a re-read with great difficulty, because I want to get through it closer to the release of book 5, but I dunno if I can wait anymore. Mordiceius posted:I guess I'm on the cusp of the Sanderlanche because I just got to have a viewpoint of Dalinar, Kaladin, and Adolin in one chapter. They're about to assault the Tower. Also very stoked to hear your reactions to this! I didn't share your issues with WoK - I really liked Kaladin in it, likely due to seeing the depression as an eerily-accurate image of my own life. Other posters have said it better than I could, but yeah, I saw myself in Kaladin and it was really good (often in very crushing ways) - however I do agree that the flashbacks in WoK are quite weak. They reveal some important tidbits but they're much longer than they need to be and placed quite annoyingly at times. But WoK was my first Sanderson book, and I went in completely blind, I didn't even know that there was such a thing as the Cosmere, I just saw it on Audible when I had nothing to read and it was very highly rated, so I decided to try it. From the very beginning I was fascinated and caught up in the worldbuilding and the vibe of the whole thing, more than the overarching story. The ending though - it's a close match with Oathbringer's finale, but I think WoK edges it out for me because of how amazingly personal the finale is, and how well the (sometimes slow, but for me that was not a complaint) buildup made it feel earned, more than frankly any other book I've ever read, full stop. Taffer fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Oct 28, 2023 |
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Oct 28, 2023 06:33
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Oh, also! (SP4 spoilers) how does the shardplate work? In RoW it seems very clear that the shardplate is formed from nearby spren - windspren, in kaladin's case - either just hanging around naturally or summoned by Investiture by the radiant. But it seems like that's because they're on Roshar. Spren are around, the splinters of honor are around, because that's where he died. If Sigzil can summon plate on some other planet, and he did not seem to bring any other spren with him (what kind of spren make the shardplate of skybreakers?), how did that happen? And why did the look of the armor change to something more akin to fire or charred? On one hand it seems like it's related to his Connection to the planet and the people there, but that doesn't seem to make sense if the armor is formed from spren. Are spren turning into shardplate just a local manifestation of how investiture works on Roshar? Is knowing how to make shardplate from investiture just some kind of thing that gets written onto the soul-web or whatever of people from Roshar with the Nahel Bond? And if Aux was the source of surges and the ability to summon plate, how did Aux's death not take away access to shardplate the same way it took away access to surges? That's a confusing jumble of words but hopefully someone has some answers or theories. Taffer fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Oct 28, 2023 |
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Oct 28, 2023 06:51
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Thanks to the thread advice, I’ve been reading Mistborn Era 2 after Oathbringer and enjoying it. Is it correct that I have to read Rhythm of War before the last Mistborn book for some spoiler reasons? I don’t really want to do that.
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Oct 28, 2023 13:44
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Taffer posted:Oh, also! (SP4 spoilers) how does the shardplate work? In RoW it seems very clear that the shardplate is formed from nearby spren - windspren, in kaladin's case - either just hanging around naturally or summoned by Investiture by the radiant. But it seems like that's because they're on Roshar. Spren are around, the splinters of honor are around, because that's where he died. If Sigzil can summon plate on some other planet, and he did not seem to bring any other spren with him (what kind of spren make the shardplate of skybreakers?), how did that happen? And why did the look of the armor change to something more akin to fire or charred? On one hand it seems like it's related to his Connection to the planet and the people there, but that doesn't seem to make sense if the armor is formed from spren. Are spren turning into shardplate just a local manifestation of how investiture works on Roshar? Is knowing how to make shardplate from investiture just some kind of thing that gets written onto the soul-web or whatever of people from Roshar with the Nahel Bond? SP4 spoilers There’s a WOB that you have to be on Roshar to summon Shardplate for the first time, but once it’s been initially formed you can do it from wherever. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/504-new-york-comic-con-2022/#e15786
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Oct 28, 2023 14:29
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Taffer posted:Finished The Sunlit Man and finally caught up with this thread! a pretty popular theory that seems extremely strong is that freeing BAM from her imprisonment will "fix" deadeyes -- you'll still be able to break your bond, but it'll just be cutting off their connection-through-you to the physical realm and sending them back to their normal cognitive selves rather than "killing" them, akin to Syl's old Radiant dying (though perhaps less traumatic than your pal's death). so it's vague in Sunlit Man because sanderson doesn't want to give away this bit of SA5 plot yet i think (if this is the case) it'll be a lot easier for someone like Sig to like "walk away from his oaths" without harming his spren, thus making it a lot less weird that a future spren would be like hey i should bond with that guy, it's no longer a life-or-death decision for them if their radiant fucks up eke out fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Oct 28, 2023 |
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Oct 28, 2023 15:19
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smackfu posted:Thanks to the thread advice, I’ve been reading Mistborn Era 2 after Oathbringer and enjoying it. Is it correct that I have to read Rhythm of War before the last Mistborn book for some spoiler reasons? Not really, 90% of us read Hero of Ages years and years before RoW. Whoever gave you that impression is making up their own pickiness about how and when you should be asking questions about the interconnected nature of the magic and people of the Cosmere.
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Oct 28, 2023 15:20
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Potato Salad posted:Not really, 90% of us read Hero of Ages years and years before RoW. HoA isn't the last mistborn book, he said era 2.
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Oct 28, 2023 15:21
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Just read the Lost Metal. They don't really spoil each other. Feel free to remind me otherwise, of course.
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Oct 28, 2023 18:21
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Lost Metal spoils a one sentence throwaway vague reference at the very end of Rhythm of War, it’s really not a big deal. RoW spoilers You can intuit who Thaidakar is from Lord of Scars and Wit’s threat to slap him around again since there’s only one person Wit has ever hit on screen.
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Oct 28, 2023 19:15
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smackfu posted:Thanks to the thread advice, I’ve been reading Mistborn Era 2 after Oathbringer and enjoying it. Is it correct that I have to read Rhythm of War before the last Mistborn book for some spoiler reasons? Rhythm of War confirms one theory the fandom had held. But it's subtle (yet clear) evidence that's easy to overlook. Lost Metal will make this detail very clear, it's impossible to miss. That's because Lost Metal is by far the most Cosmere connected Mistborn book. It's a huge leap compared to the other Mistborn books. Stormlight is usually "the" Cosmere crossover series, but Lost Metal arguably has more overt crossovers. So the attentive reader can learn something not unimportant by carefully reading Rhythm of War, while this information will get thrown at them in Lost Metal. It's a much bigger deal imho if you read Lost Metal before Way of Kings, but it's mostly a non-issue if you read it after Oathbringer. So don't feel forced to stop reading Mistborn 2, just finish the series and then read Rhythm of War.
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Oct 28, 2023 20:15
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Yeah for all the talk of crossovers Sanderson does a good job, you can read almost any series without the others and be fine. Although that's starting to fade rapidly.
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Oct 29, 2023 03:20
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It's only important to us because we have months to years of posting between books where we chimpanzee every possible twist for feasibility
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Oct 29, 2023 04:21
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Multiple times in the Way of Kings people say the name Kalec as like a swear. Is that the same Kalec from Warbreaker?
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Oct 29, 2023 19:10
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They say Kelek, who is one of the Heralds. Not the same person, as far as I know.
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Oct 29, 2023 19:19
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ConfusedUs posted:They say Kelek, who is one of the Heralds. Not the same person, as far as I know. Ah. Yet another fun aspect of listening to the audiobook. I never know the spelling of things. And my brain jumbled everything because looking back, it was Kalad, not Kalec. So I was wrong on multiple counts.
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Oct 29, 2023 19:32
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Mordiceius posted:Ah. Yet another fun aspect of listening to the audiobook. I never know the spelling of things. Each chapter is headed with its own title (a word or two taken from the chapter that have thematic resonance for the chapter as a whole) and an image of an icon representing who the viewpoint character will be (if the colors are inverted, it means flashback) and framed by up to four Heralds (or Wit). It can be hard to tell why Heralds are showing up -- they show up to represent themselves, their Orders, their attributes, or the inverse of their attributes. Anyway, I bring it up because characters who don't have their own icon share the double eye of the almighty, which also shows up in chapters with more than one viewpoint character. When the double eye shows up near the end of the book, poo poo is about to go off.
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Oct 29, 2023 22:23
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Yeah. I get none of that. The audiobook is just the chapter title, the epigraph, and then the text of the chapter. Speaking of - I don’t like how the Epigraphs have been in The Way of Kings - unless something in these final handful of chapters tie them all together. First, we had “person said this gibberish pre-death. Then it was fragments of a letter (I assume from Hoid). Then it was bits of Voidbringer research Jasnah was doing. Now we’re back to the pre-death gibberish. It feels so disjointed. I liked how Mistborn Era 1 was all part of one source.
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Oct 29, 2023 22:38
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Each section switches sources for its epigraphs. This’ll be the case for every SA book.
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Oct 29, 2023 23:15
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