[succ] Go directly to the solutions tent, do not collect 600 dollars

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [succ] Go directly to the solutions tent, do not collect 600 dollars

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gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

MSNBC.com: Biden�s comments about casualty figures in Gaza were a disgrace

quote:

Biden says that we have "no notion" of Palestinian deaths in Gaza. That�s wrong � and reckless.

A reporter asked President Joe Biden on Wednesday if reports from the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry that over 6,000 Palestinians � including 2,700 children � had been killed since Oct. 7 indicated that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was ignoring his advice to minimize civilian casualties.

�I have no notion that the Palestinians are telling the truth about how many people are killed,� Biden replied. �I�m sure innocents have been killed, and it�s the price of waging a war.�

After adding that Israel should be �careful� about �going after the folks that are propagating this war,� he reiterated skepticism of the casualty number: �I have no confidence in the number that the Palestinians are using.�

It was an astonishing comment, questioning the very premise of the query and claiming that the Palestinian people � not just Hamas � can�t be trusted to count their dead. Biden�s words weren�t just ill-founded and insensitive, they were reckless.

Israel is conducting one of the most intense bombing campaigns of the 21st century in one of the most densely populated areas in the world. It is openly pursuing collective punishment in the Gaza Strip, justifying cutting off food, water, electricity and fuel to the territory by calling Gazans "human animals," and striking loads of civilian infrastructure. If the president was true to his warning to Israel �not to be blinded by rage,� he would be sounding the alarms about war crimes. Instead Biden is opening the door to conspiracy theories about whether Palestinians are lying or exaggerating about mass casualties.

Are there reasonable questions about whether Gaza�s Ministry of Health, which is an agency in the Hamas-controlled government of the Gaza Strip, is releasing accurate numbers? Certainly. On a logistical level alone, the Ministry of Health is counting bodies during a time when keeping tallies must be exceedingly difficult. Morgues are overflowing, hospitals are running out of body bags, aid workers are being killed, many bodies are trapped under rubble, and people are hurriedly digging mass graves to deal with the problem of so many dead in an area with such little space. Record-keeping during a �complete siege� from Israel, with electricity and fuel scarce, is chaotic and likely to result in an imperfect count. And the physical inaccessibility of many of the dead makes it plausible that deaths could be undercounted.

There are also questions of whether Hamas� control of the government means that the numbers could be exaggerated as part of a propaganda effort. In particular, the Gaza Health Ministry�s initial report of 500 deaths after an explosion at Al-Ahli Arab Hospital has been widely contested. Palestinian officials reduced the number of deaths slightly after additional scrutiny, while U.S. intelligence agencies have estimated that 100 to 300 people were killed, although they haven�t explained how they�ve arrived at their conclusions. Given the shroud of mystery surrounding even who is responsible for the explosion, it is not entirely surprising that the casualty rates have been difficult to pin down.

But even if one grants that this particular tally was incorrect, there is still good reason to think of the Ministry of Health�s numbers as generally credible. Indeed, the ministry has a respectable track record according to human rights watchdogs, the United Nations, and even the U.S. government itself.

While many Westerners perceive Hamas solely as a militant or terrorist network, it is also a governing authority in Gaza, and controls a bureaucracy that predates its rule, with civil servants who don�t necessarily streamline into a unified political operation. Hospital workers across the Gaza Strip track Palestinian casualties through a computer network, which tracks people�s names and ID numbers. They are also sourced through Palestinian humanitarian organizations. As The Associated Press reports, the Ministry of Health �is a mix of recent Hamas hires and older civil servants affiliated with the secular nationalist Fatah party.� Ahmed al-Kahlot, director of Kamal Adwan Hospital in northern Gaza, told the AP that at the ministry, �Hamas is one of the factions. Some of us are aligned with Fatah, some are independent.� He added, �More than anything, we are medical professionals.�

Outside observers have generally found that the Ministry of Health�s figures are professional, not propaganda. �We have been monitoring human rights abuses in the Gaza Strip for three decades, including several rounds of hostilities. We�ve generally found the data that comes out of the ministry of health to be reliable,� Omar Shakir, the Israel and Palestine director at Human Rights Watch, told The Guardian. �When we have done our own independent investigations around particular strikes, and we�ve compared those figures against those from the health ministry, there haven�t been major deviations.� Shakir also said he was �quite confident in the overall casualty numbers� coming out based on satellite imagery, what his organization is seeing on the ground, and the number of airstrikes in the area.

The AP notes that in the past several rounds of hostility between Hamas and Israel in the Gaza Strip, the U.N.�s tallies of Palestinian deaths based on its own research have �largely been consistent� with the Gaza Health Ministry�s counts. The chief of the U.N. agency for Palestine refugees, Philippe Lazzarini, told reporters on Friday that �in the past, the five, six cycles of conflict in the Gaza Strip, these figures were considered as credible and no one ever really challenged these figures.� Michael Ryan, executive director of the World Health Organization�s Health Emergencies Program said recently that �the numbers may not be perfectly accurate on a minute-to-minute basis� but they �largely reflect the level of death and injury.�

This reputation of credibility is why groups like the U.N. and Biden�s own internal State Department reports will cite the Ministry of Health when assessing the toll of the war. And one must not delude oneself into thinking that Israel�s government � or any government � has its hands clean when it comes to issuing misleading information during conflict.

Even if after taking all of this into account, we were to grant that, in this particular round of hostilities, the Ministry of Health�s estimates could be less accurate than usual, Biden�s language was still inappropriate. He encouraged sweeping suspicion of Palestinian claims about deaths at a time when there is a superabundance of evidence and documentation indicating that Gazans are dying en masse due to an indiscriminate bombardment campaign, and when human rights observers, the United Nations, and scholars of genocide are all warning that Israel may be committing war crimes. Biden might�ve thought he was protecting Israel � and the U.S.�s complicity in its assault on innocent life � by trying to take a jab at Hamas. But it was a crude denial of catastrophe that history will not look upon fondly.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 05:09

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# ? May 25, 2024 19:47

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

Probably Magic posted:

Libya, Syria, Iraq's an old war, doesn't count... there's probably some coups and poo poo that we were in, but every president is up to those. Probably am missing one though.

What a cool country.

Afghanistan (expanded), Iraq (expanded), Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan

# ? Oct 28, 2023 05:30

Bishyaler: Dec 30, 2009; Megamarm

Love that liberals and their ghoulish party are all in on genociding Afghanistan and Palestine but we're supposed to bite our tongue about political violence

# ? Oct 28, 2023 05:47

Probably Magic: Oct 9, 2012; Looking cute, feeling cute.

spacetoaster posted:

Afghanistan (expanded), Iraq (expanded), Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan

Pre-existing, pre-existing, stated, stated, *, pre-existing, and I'm not sure jumping in real quick to kill bin Laden quite counts, but if it was spill-over from Afghanistan, pre-existing. Yemen's fair, though, I stand corrected even by my very conservative standards, lol.

Also, tasting iron, so off to bed, goodnight all. Go Mavs.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 05:59

chair lunch dinner: Apr 30, 2009

https://twitter.com/MLBONFOX/status/1718122082096066974

# ? Oct 28, 2023 06:07

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Probably Magic posted:

Pre-existing, pre-existing, stated, stated, *, pre-existing, and I'm not sure jumping in real quick to kill bin Laden quite counts, but if it was spill-over from Afghanistan, pre-existing. Yemen's fair, though, I stand corrected even by my very conservative standards, lol.

Also, tasting iron, so off to bed, goodnight all. Go Mavs.

you can also count ukraine's civil war starting in 2014 which precipitated a mass refugee crisis in the millions involving literal insignia-emblazoned nazis shelling civilians with artillery.

historically american-supported coups come with a pledge that is actually delivered of significant financial, political, military, and counter-insurgency support and the ukraine maidan coup was no exception. this by itself can instigate successful coups and make them far more likely.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 08:49

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Willa Rogers posted:

"trafficking" is good now!

New York City is intensifying efforts to transport migrants out of the city as its shelter system reaches capacity, setting up a dedicated office to provide asylum-seekers with free, one-way tickets to anywhere in the world.

City Hall confirmed the establishment of a new �reticketing center� in Manhattan as its latest bid to ease pressure on its shelters and finances following the arrival of more than 130,000 asylum-seekers since last year.

Mayor Eric Adams, a Democrat, has described the situation as a crisis and has begun to warn that shelters are so full that migrants will soon be forced onto the street as winter approaches.

�I cannot say this enough. You know, we are out of the room,� he told reporters this week. �And it�s not �if� people will be sleeping on the streets, it�s when. We are at full capacity.�

The city�s plan to offer migrants transportation builds upon previous efforts to send the asylum-seekers elsewhere, though the establishment of the dedicated reticketing center marks a renewed emphasis on the strategy.

The city has stressed that the offer for travel is voluntary.

how is this materially different than what republicans are doing lmao

will eric adams ship them to california if they ask?

# ? Oct 28, 2023 08:53

Uncle Wemus: Mar 4, 2004

# ? Oct 28, 2023 09:07

Cool Bear: Sep 2, 2012

hey i dont know what youre talking about but i sincerely think someone might know about the previously available english translation of this video here. anyone rememebr when this video of indian marxists was in english?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I6WrjN_8-c

# ? Oct 28, 2023 09:22

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

Uncle Wemus posted:

how could trump win this

# ? Oct 28, 2023 09:24

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

Every day I am more and more smug I didn�t vote for Genocide Joe.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 11:15

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

https://twitter.com/LaraFriedmanDC/status/1718076616956694604

# ? Oct 28, 2023 11:17

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

lol it�s so telling that the libs don�t give a poo poo about any of their constituents on a humanitarian level. They don�t see anyone as anything other than a potential vote.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 11:20

TeenageArchipelago: Jul 23, 2013

FlapYoJacks posted:

Every day I am more and more smug I didn’t vote for Genocide Joe.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 11:25

insane clown pussy: Jun 20, 2023

FlapYoJacks posted:

Every day I am more and more smug I didn�t vote for Genocide Joe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKp7g0mxHVc

# ? Oct 28, 2023 11:36

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

comedyblissoption posted:

https://twitter.com/LaraFriedmanDC/status/1718076616956694604

How is he gonna do that without stopping Israel from killing all the Palestinians

# ? Oct 28, 2023 11:45

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

FlapYoJacks posted:

lol it�s so telling that the libs don�t give a poo poo about any of their constituents on a humanitarian level. They don�t see anyone as anything other than a potential vote.

The attendees hadn�t expected a policy shift from the meeting, according to the accounts, but felt confident that their concerns would be conveyed to Biden, to be taken into consideration in his public remarks about Palestinians. Two days later, the president made the comments questioning the accuracy of Palestinian casualties at a time when Arabic-language TV channels were showing nonstop footage of lifeless, dust-covered children being pulled from the rubble after Israeli strikes.

�Whatever we said in that room is presumably falling on deaf ears, because it�s not changing the tenor or tone, much less the policymaking,� one person involved in the talks said.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 11:46

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

comedyblissoption posted:

https://twitter.com/LaraFriedmanDC/status/1718076616956694604

hearing from many sources that actually they're a bunch of chuds who would have never voted blue in the first place

# ? Oct 28, 2023 11:48

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

gradenko_2000 posted:

How is he gonna do that without stopping Israel from killing all the Palestinians

chiefs, kiddos, pals

# ? Oct 28, 2023 11:48

Bear Retrieval Unit: Nov 5, 2009; Mudslide Experiment

gradenko_2000 posted:

How is he gonna do that without stopping Israel from killing all the Palestinians

what are you gonna do, vote for trump? :smuggo:

# ? Oct 28, 2023 12:06

PhilippAchtel: May 31, 2011

https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1717998995979563412

# ? Oct 28, 2023 12:09

Exodus1984: Feb 18, 2005; Eastern Europe Episode IV: A New Hope. I love President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. I understand and appreciate the precarious position the Ukrainians are navigating. I wish I could set up a 401(UA) fund from my paycheck to directly contribute my earnings to Ukraine's success.

Not that anyone cares, but it is difficult to properly articulate my level of disgust and anger over, well, all of it.

Anyone who can show up and say that supporting Biden or anyone associated with him is a vote against fascism can gently caress right off.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 12:10

Andorra: Dec 12, 2012

It's a pretty crazy strategy to say "Actually everything is going well. You're just misinformed and your sources are lying" when it's about the economy, but it's totally wild to use that exact same strategy regarding genocide.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 12:23

Exodus1984: Feb 18, 2005; Eastern Europe Episode IV: A New Hope. I love President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. I understand and appreciate the precarious position the Ukrainians are navigating. I wish I could set up a 401(UA) fund from my paycheck to directly contribute my earnings to Ukraine's success.

Andorra posted:

It's a pretty crazy strategy to say "Actually everything is going well. You're just misinformed and your sources are lying" when it's about the economy, but it's totally wild to use that exact same strategy regarding genocide.

Thing is, the economy isn�t doing well either, it�s on the brink of collapse, despite all the people carrying water for it. We�re all in a state of delusion.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 12:26

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

gradenko_2000 posted:

Is it antisemitic to think Bernie sucks poo poo

Looks like I have my answer

https://twitter.com/rmc031/status/1718021577852305555?t=jU8Tv3J7brTEY1PyMUNzxA&s=19

# ? Oct 28, 2023 12:39

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

Exodus1984 posted:

Thing is, the economy isn�t doing well either, it�s on the brink of collapse, despite all the people carrying water for it. We�re all in a state of delusion.

Un, excuse me, GDP is way up this quarter! Therefore you are wrong! (Ignore that it�s up because everything is more expensive and people are forced to spend more on basic necessities.)

Now excuse me while I show you an inflation graph excluding food, housing, transportation and energy costs that show inflation is only 2.5% this ~~year~~ ~~quarter~~ month!

# ? Oct 28, 2023 12:40

F_Shit_Fitzgerald: Feb 2, 2017

PhilippAchtel posted:

https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1717998995979563412

Genocide is not "complex"! gently caress you! I am so sick and tired of libs not wanting to delve into an issue so they just label it """complicated""" and congratulate themselves for "nuance".

F_Shit_Fitzgerald has issued a correction as of 13:07 on Oct 28, 2023

# ? Oct 28, 2023 12:47

insane clown pussy: Jun 20, 2023

F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:

Genocide is not "complex"! gently caress you! I am so sick and tired of libs not ranging to delve into an issue so they just label it """complicated""" and congratulate themselves for "nuance".

it's not them being threatened so why should they care, it's merely an academic exercise so of course there's nuance and complexity to the issue

# ? Oct 28, 2023 13:02

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/queerBengali/status/1717940261471543370?t=qjWH5xONQbgi7gWuA5IXIw&s=19

# ? Oct 28, 2023 13:32

Scarabrae: Oct 7, 2002

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/queerBengali/status/1717940261471543370?t=qjWH5xONQbgi7gWuA5IXIw&s=19

I choose Chaotic Evil over Lawful Evil in this next election

# ? Oct 28, 2023 13:40

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

tired: thinking genocide is bad because it's bad to commit violence on innocent people
wired: thinking genocide is bad because you hate marginalized people

# ? Oct 28, 2023 13:41

Business Gorillas: Mar 11, 2009

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/queerBengali/status/1717940261471543370?t=qjWH5xONQbgi7gWuA5IXIw&s=19

I guess nobody's told her about what the Israeli government does to Ethiopian Jews in Israel, eh?

# ? Oct 28, 2023 13:48

ProfessorBooty: Jan 25, 2004; Amulet of the Dark

Srice posted:

tired: thinking genocide is bad because it's bad to commit violence on innocent people
wired: thinking genocide is bad because you hate marginalized people

Everyone deserves access to genocide.

Market based genocide solutions. The demand for genocide has never been higher, look how expensive it is.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 13:55

Tsitsikovas: Aug 2, 2023

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/queerBengali/status/1717940261471543370?t=qjWH5xONQbgi7gWuA5IXIw&s=19

Lol queer and black lives were sunk under many a democrat presidency (obamas first reply to ferguson uprisings were pull up your pants talk, remember that) and by the loving way dems had almost 50 years to solidify roe v wade. To literally do anything besides have it "technically legal under a pretense of privacy laws"

Loser rear end party with loser rear end toadie supporters. Ugh. gently caress america.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 14:01

Automata 10 Pack: Jun 21, 2007; Ten games published by Automata, on one cassette

https://x.com/pppepocomfy/status/1717936877431370007?s=46

# ? Oct 28, 2023 14:06

mags: May 30, 2008; I am a congenital optimist.

Automata 10 Pack posted:

https://x.com/pppepocomfy/status/1717936877431370007?s=46

would have been a good syq

# ? Oct 28, 2023 14:08

Scarabrae: Oct 7, 2002

If Trump wins suddenly the plight of Palestinians will be front and center for your liberal friends, so in that scenario its harm reduction.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 14:09

mags: May 30, 2008; I am a congenital optimist.

Scarabrae posted:

If Trump wins suddenly the plight of Palestinians will be front and center for your liberal friends, so in that scenario its harm reduction.

�kids in cages� outrage that evaporated as soon as the nov 4 results came in

# ? Oct 28, 2023 14:11

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/queerBengali/status/1717940261471543370?t=qjWH5xONQbgi7gWuA5IXIw&s=19

Where do the weapons and training to Israel come from?

Who has been defending and giving the green light to perform these atrocities?

Who is actively moving military equipment and personnel to the loving country to help with the genocide?

I loving hate shitlibs.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 14:12

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# ? May 25, 2024 19:47

Exodus1984: Feb 18, 2005; Eastern Europe Episode IV: A New Hope. I love President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. I understand and appreciate the precarious position the Ukrainians are navigating. I wish I could set up a 401(UA) fund from my paycheck to directly contribute my earnings to Ukraine's success.

Automata 10 Pack posted:

https://x.com/pppepocomfy/status/1717936877431370007?s=46

Nah. Israel had 4 years to go ham under Trump, and they didn�t. Instead, they did it when a lifetime supporter was in office.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 14:13

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [succ] Go directly to the solutions tent, do not collect 600 dollars

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