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BisbyWorl posted:Is he keeping soda in his vest? I think they're supposed to be energy drinks. To go along with the Warcraft shirt he's wearing.
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Oct 29, 2023 03:47
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Might as well bite the bullet and vote for listening to Ariel. I have to say her name because I've seen enough fanart to know that a lot of people think Selendis is cute.
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Oct 29, 2023 04:02
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Ah, yes. This cutscene. There's something very special about this cutscene. You see, out of all of the cutscenes from the original narrative, one was too dedicated to Raynor's alcoholism and the consequences thereof to keep:Kith posted:This narrative would all come to a head when, after one of the mop-up missions, Matt confronted Raynor about how his mistakes cost lives. Raynor would shoot back that people should be thankful because it would've been far worse if the Raiders hadn't been there at all, and Matt would counter with how Raynor sounded just like Mengsk. Raynor would fly into a rage, Matt would beat some sense into him, and Raynor would realize that Matt was right. As part of this scene, Raynor would reveal (or come to the realization) that the reason that he was obsessed with saving Kerrigan was because he felt personally responsible for letting Mengsk trick him into abandoning Kerrigan to be infested, and he needed to do everything he could to right that wrong and quiet his conscience. He would mention that killing the Queen of Blades wouldn't bring back the people that they'd lost to her, and that was supposed to be his Big Hero Moment: realizing that revenge was meaningless and redemption was the True Hero's Path. He'd clean up his act, get his poo poo together, and the rest of the game would happen as it does for much better reasons. However, since it was already animated, Blizzard opted to cannibalize as much of the existing work as possible to keep production costs down. I don't have any information on what specific sequences were re-used, but almost the entire fight between Tychus and Raynor was once a fight between Raynor and Matt. Additionally, the shot of Tychus staring into his drink was originally one of Raynor. One of the original purposes of this narrative was to set the stage for Matt replacing Raynor entirely, as alluded to multiple times by Raynor in past cutscenes: In the original narrative, Raynor would pass the mantle of Commander to Matt at the end of Wings of Liberty and go off to do things that will be discussed later. Kith fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Oct 29, 2023 |
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Oct 29, 2023 04:11
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also it's pretty hosed up that you're implying that selendis isn't cute
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Oct 29, 2023 04:12
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Oct 29, 2023 04:38
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Raynor's utter obliviousness to what's going on with him aside, I really do like Tychus' character and story here. Tosh's commentary, assuming we have to believe it's true, because frankly Tosh never does anything to make us think he's casually lying to us about anything, much less this (Tosh's lies are of omission, not misinformation)... Tychus desperately does not want to betray his buddy. That talk of fighting the good fight, and it feeling good, Tychus is telling the truth there. It's why he's upset about Raynor marching off to Char that he's being more tight-lipped about, for understandable reasons. Tychus gave up a lot of years of his life to prison without ever ratting out Raynor. He took a metaphorical bullet for his buddy, and he still wants to have his back. But the closer we get to Char, the more Tychus realizes he's going to have to either take another, more permanent bullet for his old buddy... or finally betray him to the man holding the gun to his head. Tychus is legitimately one of my favorite characters in Starcraft 2 - I would call him tied for first with Tosh, to be honest. Regardless of any implications or negatives people draw from his design or mannerisms, I just like Tosh. He just manages to hit the "this guy's cool" notes in my brain. BlazetheInferno fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Oct 29, 2023 |
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Oct 29, 2023 04:53
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This "decision" seems incredibly one-sided if you think about it in terms of game lore, right up there with the "choice" between Tosh versus Mengsk's personal assassin. AFAIK, there's zero evidence of anybody ever curing zerg infestation or even making a serious attempt at it. The Protoss, Confederacy, Dominion, and Mobius all did plenty of research on the Zerg. And one random-rear end doctor from a backwater planet who's borrowing lab space on the Hyperion is going to fix this? In enough time to actually save the coloniests? Oh, and by the way, we'd also be pissing off our buddies the Protoss and personally attacking one of their major leaders by siding with Hanson. I assume that the storyline morphs to retroactively make the player correct either way, but based on what the characters know, I'm not really sure what the argument would be in favor of giving Hanson a chance here.
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Oct 29, 2023 04:54
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Okay, since we're not getting the option, I have to know. If you leave Haven alone and go to Char, can you do Haven after the endgame rush or does it get locked or something? I guess same question for all optional mission lines, but I don't really expect that answer to be different.
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Oct 29, 2023 04:54
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Felinoid posted:Okay, since we're not getting the option, I have to know. If you leave Haven alone and go to Char, can you do Haven after the endgame rush or does it get locked or something? I guess same question for all optional mission lines, but I don't really expect that answer to be different. Actually, if you were to go in with a completely clean account, and go through the campaign for the very first time and skip Haven entirely, I believe you would in fact not be able to go back and do it through the archives. For the sake of the campaign, if you do not do it before Char, you missed your chance. Period.
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Oct 29, 2023 04:57
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Felinoid posted:Okay, since we're not getting the option, I have to know. If you leave Haven alone and go to Char, can you do Haven after the endgame rush or does it get locked or something? I guess same question for all optional mission lines, but I don't really expect that answer to be different.
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Oct 29, 2023 04:58
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Kith posted:also it's pretty hosed up that you're implying that selendis isn't cute Selendis is cute, yes, but she at least has a logical argument for purging the place. Hanson is banking on a Hail Mary that'll result in the complete loss of an entire planet if she fails. Felinoid posted:Okay, since we're not getting the option, I have to know. If you leave Haven alone and go to Char, can you do Haven after the endgame rush or does it get locked or something? I guess same question for all optional mission lines, but I don't really expect that answer to be different. Skipped missions might show up in the Archives after the end of the game, I'm not entirely sure, but otherwise the only way to go and do them is to reload a save from before you go to Char.
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Oct 29, 2023 05:00
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Yeah, agree with the Alien that it needs to be burned. And glassed. Because if a woman working in a minimally equipped medical bay with whatever equipment could be looted, repurposed, or rejiggered could make a vaccine to prevent Zerg infection, wouldn't it have been done by now? And isn't the Zerg's thing how rapidly they can evolve and improve themselves ergo shouldn't they be able to pretty much instantaneously adjust to it and bypass it, rendering it pointless? The only way to deal with the Zerg is to obliterate them.
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Oct 29, 2023 05:07
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CommissarMega posted:Might as well bite the bullet and vote for listening to Ariel. I have to say her name because I've seen enough fanart to know that a lot of people think Selendis is cute. Kith posted:also it's pretty hosed up that you're implying that selendis isn't cute Jim's greatest nightmare, two cute girls asking him for opposing favours.
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Oct 29, 2023 05:22
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I can't think of a named Templar who hasn't been on the level so far, and we've seen first-hand how Terrans experimenting with the Zerg usually ends up. Burn it.
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Oct 29, 2023 05:39
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Selendis knows what's up. The Protoss have the only cure, they're smart. Zergism (Zergishness? Zergery?) isn't even a virus or a bacterium, it's a whole concert of biology working together.
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Oct 29, 2023 06:05
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The idea of a Zerg cure is so hilariously dumb. Selendis is also way cooler then the doctor. Also the mission you get siding with Selendis is way better. Burn them all, Protoss for life.
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Oct 29, 2023 06:36
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If we asked real nice-like do you think Selendis would let us borrow a carrier?
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Oct 29, 2023 06:50
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That cutscene with Tychus would've been really cool if the entire campaign was building to it, huh. Maw of the Void having some Protoss allies is cool. It probably would've been cooler if you could like, hire some Protoss mercs but... I'm starting to pick up on themes in this campaign. But speaking of Tychus and Maw of the Void... He mentions sitting this one out. Hasn't he only helped in like, two missions?  I don't get it, which is the Char option..? Shastahanshah fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Oct 29, 2023 |
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Oct 29, 2023 07:06
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Hey, Selendis, been a long time since we've seen you! It's never hard confirmed, but Selendis is the best available candidate for the Player Commander in Brood War's Protoss campaign. The PC in SC1's core Protoss Campaign was Artanis, of course, having been promoted to Executor after Tassadar went rogue, but then Artanis shows up as the head of the Protoss as a whole in Brood War, and the PC is still explicitly an Executor who's never named. And then here's Selendis, who has the same job title and who clearly is pretty familiar with and pleased to see Raynor. As said, it's never outright confirmed... but that job title doesn't get handed out at the corner store. Selendis also rules, for the record. I usually go with Save the Colony just because it fits with the overall theme, frankly -- not just Raynor being a sucker for a pretty face, but the overall stubborn hope that humanity can overcome these things rather than taking the hard path. And if I'm being honest, Selendis' reaction to your picking that path makes it seem like it's pretty much what she's expecting you to do anyway, bad idea or not.
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Oct 29, 2023 07:17
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Somewhere I heard the explanation that this is some weird communicable zerg-ifying virus they're prototyping rather than full-on infestation, designed to spread rapidly without needing to bring in a queen, and that's why it can be cured. I don't buy it. Burn it with fire.
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Oct 29, 2023 07:19
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Does anything ever come of Tosh pointing out that the Zerg seem to be following Ariel around because she's got something they want?
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Oct 29, 2023 07:30
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Grammarchist posted:Does anything ever come of Tosh pointing out that the Zerg seem to be following Ariel around because she's got something they want? That depends on which option we pick.
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Oct 29, 2023 08:55
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Yeah the protoss are 100% correct in this, unfortunately. If the doctor can magically cure zerg infestation however it would be amazing and nobody would ever get infested again. We'd never see another infested terran again. Which... yeah... I don't believe Hanson for a second. And it's common sense It's just too big a risk to spare We'll sunder down their doors AND KILL THEM ALL Purging with my kin This bloodshed so surreal Gore on revved chain swords Show them the true ideals Purging with my kin We'll force the hordes to keel A trillion bodies sprawl A disease we can heal
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Oct 29, 2023 10:06
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I find it hard to believe the colony suddenly needs purged now given how long Haven's been waiting already.  If the Protoss couldn't be bothered all this time, they can wait a bit longer to see if the cure works.
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Oct 29, 2023 10:18
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Grammarchist posted:Does anything ever come of Tosh pointing out that the Zerg seem to be following Ariel around because she's got something they want? It's a Tosh/Nova situation. Did you pick Tosh? There was never any danger. Did you pick Nova? She was right all along. You the player are incapable of loving up in any way. I'm voting save em because we haven't betrayed anyone yet and I don't plan to start now. Besides, how can you turn down the opportunity for glorious combat?
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Oct 29, 2023 10:22
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Also yes, it is 100% true that the side-with-Hanson option is much more Glorious. It's worth noting that Haven represents a VERY early opportunity to complete the Protoss research and get the Tech Reactor, incidentally. If you turn this one down and side with Hanson you have to work your way DEEP into the other trees to scrape together enough Protoss data for it because there's an absolute buttload of Zerg stuff in the middle of most of 'em.
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Oct 29, 2023 10:43
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Side with Hanson. The protoss here are way too up themselves and I want to shoot them.
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Oct 29, 2023 11:26
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I sided with Hanson because it is the easier and faster mission
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Oct 29, 2023 12:11
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Man, Selendis is so cool in her brief appearance in WoL. Just look at the choice she's offering here - to let Raynor take over the purging operation, trusting him to do it properly and letting him give the colonists whatever death honours terrans find appropriate, or to fight her for it and she is absolutely stoked for a chance to match wits with (at least from her perspective) the terrans' most legendary commander. She really holds up what made the protoss so much fun in the first game. Shame we don't see any of that in their actual campaign and the protoss we'll be playing with in LotV are basically just elves with rubber foreheads. One of the first things I'd do to fix up that campaigns writing would be making Selendis the player character rather than Artanis. But we'll get there when we get there.
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Oct 29, 2023 12:50
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wedgekree posted:Because if a woman working in a minimally equipped medical bay with whatever equipment could be looted, repurposed, or rejiggered could make a vaccine to prevent Zerg infection, wouldn't it have been done by now? counterpoint: nobody in the confederacy, the UED, or the dominion give a poo poo about something like that. the zerg are an easily weaponizable race of gribblies, the infestation is a bonus because it creates free shock troops when using them as a blunt object Tenebrais posted:Shame we don't see any of that in their actual campaign and the protoss we'll be playing with in LotV are basically just elves with rubber foreheads. hey wanna get even more pissed off in LotV, selendis as a unit doesn't even have a unique model. she uses lasarra's model.
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Oct 29, 2023 14:27
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Purge the colony.. Purge it with fire until it is a reflective glass sphere of beautiful purity. I'm really not a fan of the ultra-simplified understanding of how biological infection works that the writing team in SC2 is going with because that does not add up, at all, with what has been established previously. Having a viral infection can theoretically turn parts of your body into a weird goo pile, but very few actually cause overt tissue "growth". Are we supposed to believe that the zerg work like a papillomavirus and all those extra tentacles and claws and muscles are elaborate warts? Zerg infestation is clearly, as shown by the art in two games now, more of a cancerous growth. Zerg-coded biomass is replacing your existing human mass and altering your brain so it receives instructions from the Overmind/Cerebrates/Kerrigan. If you cut that transformation process off, enjoy your Future Space Nobel there, Ariel, but also that's not going to just restore all the brain damage and regrow missing limbs and organs. Humans are surprisingly good at healing but we aren't D&D trolls. What kind of fancy drug is going to fix having a tank-sized tentacle coming out of your face, ie. infested siege tank? This is, I think, a decision where there's just as obvious a rational correct choice as with Good Ally Tosh vs. Dominion Assassin We've Never Met Before. Ariel is in denial about the situation she's in, and she has been for a long time now.
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Oct 29, 2023 15:00
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Honestly this feels like a choice that would have benefitted from a space magic relic or something for once, or some level of care taken with making the cure option seem more plausible. Not that it's all that unheard-of for a scientist with fewer resources but the right idea to make a big breakthrough, but it's one of those situations that despite having happened at least a few times IRL has the feeling of being contrived or unbelievable in fiction when it's a key plot point. Doubly so when it's in a game like this that has no qualms with introducing plot devices out of nowhere. Maybe I'm forgetting something really important from the text dump when the mission first showed up, since it was so long ago, but it feels like in trying to make this choice difficult they make it look like she just has no chance of success. That said, I still think this is pretty different than the Tosh vs Nova thing. That one is easy because Nova is a space fascist cop and Tosh is a dude who's proven himself - it's really difficult to even make an emotional argument for the Nova side that doesn't rely on racism. Whereas with this one there's a very understandable and I think generally admirable human optimism in trying to cure them. Not to say that it's correct, though I always give a very hard side-eye to any of these fictional contortions used to set mass murder up as rationally correct, but I can see admirable and understandable reasons to let Hanson have her shot. Like in any Star Trek episode they're going to go for the cure, and in most it'll work out. Or you get the astoundingly good Babylon 5 Markab episode. Whereas it's difficult for me to figure out why anyone would side with Nova, outside of being a Dominion asset or mind controlled. Honestly the weird choice here is helping the Protoss out. I get that it's because you need to have a mission either way, but they're all set to safely do the job with orbital bombardment, in terms of the story it's weird to be like "yeah let me in on that mass murder" rather than just being like "oh you've got it covered, peace out."
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Oct 29, 2023 15:30
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Warmachine posted:It's a Tosh/Nova situation. Did you pick Tosh? There was never any danger. Did you pick Nova? She was right all along. You the player are incapable of loving up in any way. I still maintain that the Tosh/Nova situation is straight up Nova lying to us and the game giving us the chance to fall for it. This one, however, will absolutely mold reality to justify your choice. I mean... the canon choice is sticking with the Doctor. But, unlike the Tosh choice, this one never gets brought up again, as far as I know. Literally anywhere. Hanson and Haven's potential fates have literally never been mentioned again that I am aware of. So screw it. Burn it all down!
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Oct 29, 2023 16:41
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Arcanuse posted:I find it hard to believe the colony suddenly needs purged now given how long Haven's been waiting already. Conversely, Ariel has had pretty much the entire game to develop her cure at this point. If she still doesn't have anything more concrete than "I know I can do it" at this point, it's probably not happening.
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Oct 29, 2023 17:14
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 Why is Hanson not here?
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Oct 29, 2023 17:26
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Even if Hanson fails her shot, we can still purge the colony after. They're worth that one last chance. ...'cept that given how long we took, it's probably 120% zerg by mass.
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Oct 29, 2023 17:26
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wologar posted:
Because there's a chance, however slim, that the player has gotten to this point without touching the Colonist missions and recruiting Hanson, so the cutscene just assumes she isn't here.
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Oct 29, 2023 17:31
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wologar posted:
She's just out of frame, curing the Zerg virus
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Oct 29, 2023 17:31
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Whenever Ariel Hanson isn't on-screen, the other Raiders should be saying, "Where's Dr. Hanson?"
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Oct 29, 2023 17:36
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 10:33 |
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Also doesn't she vanish if you complete her questline either way? Anyway, since nobody seems to have a concrete answer on binning Haven off even further, I think I may need to do an experiment. Wish me luck! 
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Oct 29, 2023 17:46
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