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90s TV was a crazy time. iirc the production time of a South Park episode was 11 days (and may still be) which allowed them to be absurdly reactive to current events or fan reactions Back to Star Trek, I think they definitely used Vic less than they originally planned due to people not liking him.
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Oct 28, 2023 18:14
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Taear posted:Yea and it's pretty insane to think "this episode was written in November 1998, filmed in December 1998 and broadcast in January 1999" Contrast this to SNW, where the series premiered as they were shooting the LDS crossover episode.
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Oct 28, 2023 18:29
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FuturePastNow posted:absurdly reactive p good basic description of South Park, period.
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Oct 28, 2023 20:28
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South Park does have a pretty famously tight creative pipeline, yeah.
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Oct 28, 2023 21:00
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They're not designed-to-be-hero-ship ships later on, but I kinda love STO's little ongoing ~300-metre-long cruiser lineage through the ages. It's a role, different generations fill the role. (The third's intended to be roughly ambassador-era) taken by MikeJF fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Oct 29, 2023 |
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Oct 29, 2023 16:54
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I guess the show might've mentioned the Dominion taking territory at points, but I feel like Deep Space Nine never really touched on how extremely traumatizing it would have been for the Federation to have planets occupied and taken from it by force and people dying in the occupation; not just the Starfleet personnel getting killed like when the Borg massacred Federation forces, but all the civilians who didn't sign up to do their duty and get put in a risky situation. Especially after the Federation had been bending over backward to avoid an official war despite obvious aggression at its borders. Alternatively, surely the Federation civilians would have suffered no harm as all planets could simply be abandoned with no worry.  Of course, the Cardassians were very explicitly being massacred under Dominion occupation, not just in retaliation for Damar's rebellion or the regular attrition from being ruled by fascists with no concern for life (less concern than the previous fascists), but the Founder ordering a genocide of Cardassia Prime like the Japanese did to the Filipinos at the Battle of Manila. But the Cardassians were dying long before the Federation got into the fight with the Dominion.
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Oct 29, 2023 17:42
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MikeJF posted:They're not designed-to-be-hero-ship ships later on, but I kinda love STO's little ongoing ~300-metre-long cruiser lineage through the ages. It's a role, different generations fill the role. (The third's intended to be roughly ambassador-era) I love how both of those options look legitimately better than the actual canon "Enterprise-G".
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Oct 29, 2023 18:16
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nine-gear crow posted:I love how both of those options look legitimately better than the actual canon "Enterprise-G". Is that the one from Picard or that fat-bellied barge from STO?
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Oct 29, 2023 18:21
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Well, they were both in Picard, but: the Enterprise-F is the STO one, the Enterprise-G is the renamed Titan-A from Picard. The one that's a "Constitution-III" class (retconning the refit to be the Constitution-II Class). Because gotta max out the nostalgia. Although according to Matalis the Constitution-III is nicknamed the Neo-Constitution Class. Neocon class for short I guess? We all want the Enterprise to be a Neocon, right? MikeJF fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Oct 29, 2023 |
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Oct 29, 2023 18:23
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MikeJF posted:Neocon class for short I guess.  
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Oct 29, 2023 18:25
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MikeJF posted:Well, they were both in Picard, but: the Enterprise-F is the STO one, the Enterprise-G is the renamed Titan-A from Picard. The one that's a "Constitution-III" class (retconning the refit to be the Constitution-II Class). Because gotta max out the nostalgia. Also it was a refit of the regular Titan that was finally seen in canon in Lower Decks, which wasn't a "Constitution-III", but a Lunar class ship. Because Matalis doesn't give a poo poo and just wanted the ship to be a fan-design he liked (but with different nacelles) they had to close the plot-hole on twitter and say that the Titan got hosed up at some point and was just refit into an entirely different class of ship. So they took a ton of the Titan's components and put them in a new shell, for some reason. 
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Oct 29, 2023 18:33
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MikeJF posted:Well, they were both in Picard, but: the Enterprise-F is the STO one, the Enterprise-G is the renamed Titan-A from Picard. The one that's a "Constitution-III" class (retconning the refit to be the Constitution-II Class). Because gotta max out the nostalgia. Given Matalas's track record of hanging around with right wing shitheads online and IRL, the Enterprise-G being a Neocon completely tracks. The irony then that it's captained by the woman who inadvertently made Barack Obama president 
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Oct 29, 2023 18:38
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I don't think Matalas sucking up to a bunch of nerd cultural reactionaries necessarily means he was an enthusiastic supporter of the Iraq War, personally
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Oct 29, 2023 18:47
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No Dignity posted:I don't think Matalas sucking up to a bunch of nerd cultural reactionaries necessarily means he was an enthusiastic supporter of the Iraq War, personally Matalas seems like he's a boilerplate Hollywood Liberal politically, he's just a shithead who's a poor judge of character and/or a mewling suck up who'll debase himself to anyone for approval. That said, he DID cut his teeth working on Enterprise, the most neocon of all the Trek shows 
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Oct 29, 2023 19:04
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Riker does call it a Neo-Constitution class on screen so that's got to be the canon name
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Oct 29, 2023 19:28
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FuturePastNow posted:Riker does call it a Neo-Constitution class on screen so that's got to be the canon name I think we get a decent shot of the plaque and that says Constitution-III, at least.
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Oct 29, 2023 19:31
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Yeah, Constitution-III is it's official name, Neo-Constitution is just what some people like Riker call it in-universe.
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Oct 29, 2023 19:33
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The Conniiie
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Oct 29, 2023 20:03
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Mike the TV posted:The Conniiie Bigger Constitution
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Oct 29, 2023 20:26
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space forums consumed by flame wars between constitution and constellation stans for who gets to be called the Connie
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Oct 29, 2023 20:31
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Constitution is Connie, Constellation is Connell.
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Oct 29, 2023 20:33
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The Constitution-III is a perfectly fine design aside from the stupid 25th century nacelles that were slapped onto the original design to make it fit in the Picard era. Tbh I think it’s kinda lovely how people keep slamming Bill Krause’s design just because dipshit extraordinaire Terry Matalas decided to cram it into an era it was never designed for. If you were a fan designer and someone at Paramount called you up wanting to make your personal design the next Enterprise you’d jump at the chance too.
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Oct 29, 2023 20:47
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The Constitution-III is a perfectly fine design aside from the stupid 25th century nacelles that were slapped onto the original design to make it fit in the Picard era. That's why if you want to canonize era appropriate late 24th/early 25th century Starfleet fan designs, you hire Michael Wiley instead.
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Oct 29, 2023 20:50
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The Shangri-La is fantastic and the Constitution-III is awful. There were quite a lot of details changed besides the nacelles and all of them were negative and they all add up. But yeah the original Shangri-La is a great movie era design.
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Oct 29, 2023 20:54
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Having not seen it in Picard and just still images, I like the saucer of the Connie III, but it doesn't work with the other elements (namely the nacelles as mentioned). Looks much better in the Shangri-La. I also think it would be cool on a long Excelsior type body. What's the consensus on the Odyssey/Ent-F? I quite like it.
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Oct 29, 2023 21:04
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I like the Odyssey: the remodel and re-detail they did before using it in Picard matured the design and sorted out some of the old issues with it (various little things, like they flared the end of the tapering nacelles slightly to reduce the foreshortening effect the taper was prone to cause) and the greyer hull they used in the show version look nicer than the starker white and black hull they use in STO. And honestly I've always been fond of giant lumbering space whales. https://i.imgur.com/FkAwQNj.mp4 Just look at that fucker roll. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Oct 29, 2023 |
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Oct 29, 2023 21:16
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MikeJF posted:I like the Odyssey: the remodel and re-detail they did before using it in Picard matured the design and sorted out some of the old issues with it (various little things, like they flared the end of the tapering nacelles slightly to reduce the foreshortening effect the taper was prone to cause) and the greyer hull they used in the show version look nicer than the starker white and black hull they use in STO. I'm just sad that because Eaglemoss died and because it was in Picard for like 30 seconds, we're never gonna get any good scale physical models of it now. Also you can tell how miffed Cryptic was that Picard just kind of wiped its rear end with the F and tossed it aside because they made an entire glory shot trailer of their TV-spec remodel of it that's basically just "No, gently caress YOU, Terry, the F is still the Enterprise in our universe": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHHM-d5ccLg
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Oct 29, 2023 22:01
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I've watched the first four episodes of Voyager. There have been two time loop episodes and two episodes that used a space reflection of the Voyager as a plot device.
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Oct 30, 2023 00:05
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iirc they blew a bunch of the season's budget doing extensive reshoots of the pilot episode
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Oct 30, 2023 00:19
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Tighclops posted:iirc they blew a bunch of the season's budget doing extensive reshoots of the pilot episode For the sole reason because, and I am not making this up, Kate Mulgrew’s hair was wrong in the scenes in the Ocampa settlement.
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Oct 30, 2023 00:25
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What I'll say though is that this feels like the platonic ideal of completely average Trek. The actors all seem to know their characters quite well already, but not all of the characters are particularly compelling. The plots have been reasonable scifi mysteries without completely absurd leaps in logic to resolve their conflicts, but it's clear from the format that the stakes are never that high. The world-building is there, but it's the absolute least interesting part of the ongoing TNG/DS9 setting and because they're on the other side of the galaxy, it's there as a source of tension more than anything else and likely won't mean much going into future seasons, or more likely even future episodes this season. In short, it's entirely inoffensive and I'll continue watching it. It feels like Trek, it looks like Trek, and it sounds like Trek.
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Oct 30, 2023 00:47
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MikeJF posted:And honestly I've always been fond of giant lumbering space whales. It does seem like a thing heavily inherent to Star Trek's whole brand and vibe. It's supposed to be a show about drama between actors in rooms or on sets, not about zippy action of ships zooming around. It's not supposed to matter much whether individual crewmen operating equipment have the dexterity to get poo poo done, it's about the captain who isn't really touching anything commanding something be done.
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Oct 30, 2023 01:14
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Arivia posted:For the sole reason because, and I am not making this up, Kate Mulgrew’s hair was wrong in the scenes in the Ocampa settlement. Which is quite something, because the main reason they lost Geneviève Bujold and had to put filming on hold to secure Kate Mulgrew's casting in the first place was because they wouldn't stop trying to gently caress with her hair after she got Rick Berman to promise her they wouldn't.
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Oct 30, 2023 01:21
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So they lost a lead and blew a lot of their budget for the first season for basically https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjHOtxCRhnw
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Oct 30, 2023 01:40
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Atlas Hugged posted:The actors all seem to know their characters quite well already, but not all of the characters are particularly compelling. Yeah, the main reason they have a pretty good grasp so quickly is that there's so little to grasp.
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Oct 30, 2023 01:41
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B'Elanna Torres especially feels like a huge step back as far as portrayals of Klingons go.
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Oct 30, 2023 01:46
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The main appeal of Voyager nowadays is that it's comfort food trek
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Oct 30, 2023 01:47
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nine-gear crow posted:Which is quite something, because the main reason they lost Geneviève Bujold and had to put filming on hold to secure Kate Mulgrew's casting in the first place was because they wouldn't stop trying to gently caress with her hair after she got Rick Berman to promise her they wouldn't. I thought it's because she didn't like the technobabble and was generally just not vibing with the part? I think you can still find some of the footage they shot with her as Janeway on YouTube and she's not very good.
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Oct 30, 2023 01:52
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Feldegast42 posted:The main appeal of Voyager nowadays is that it's comfort food trek Yes, it's this exactly. And because they're not interested at this point in telling a dark and gritty Trek that tracks collateral damage and leans into the premise, it's the most "resetty" of all of the Treks I've seen. How each episode ends can neither bring them any closer to Earth nor leave them any worse off than they were before. It's the Gilligan's Island of Trek.
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Oct 30, 2023 02:07
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Tighclops posted:I thought it's because she didn't like the technobabble and was generally just not vibing with the part? I think you can still find some of the footage they shot with her as Janeway on YouTube and she's not very good. It was all that, yes, but according to Garrett Wang and Robert Duncan McNeill, the hair was the last straw and the thing that pushed her to walk off set in the middle of break between takes and never come back. But yeah, someone posted an edited clip of the same scene featuring Bujold's Janeway and then Mulgrew's Janeway and Mulgrew just blows her out of the water completely.
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Oct 30, 2023 02:54
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