|
Athas posted:Sorry you had to find out this way, but it is bad.
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2023 09:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 23:37 |
|
|
fresh_cheese posted:i prefer / be something of a fixed size / should just be a virtual filesystem that other filesystems are mounted atop, it’s probably only a couple VM pages at most to implement since it only needs to support a few directories and symbolic links, and zero roundtrips to other storage hardware which filesystems mount where should live in the partition map, perhaps with symlink entries so the entire OS can come on a single read-only partition but still have separate /bin and /usr/bin and so on for the people who care for network boots that stuff can all come from some form of network autoconfiguration plus directory services just like on any networked workstation since their invention in the 1970s
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2023 11:44
|
|
|
fuckit lets blow up the FHS the ideal file system structure: / is ephemeral and managed entirely by the kernel with some options to direct it to create specific symlinks to places /os/base is generally RO and consists of the executable code currently smeared across various bin and lib directories. /os/p1 , /os/p2…n are union mount overlays for /os/base : this is how patching is done /conf/base is RO config files as provided by things that come from /os/base /conf/local0 is a union mount over /conf/base for customization /conf/local1..n are additional union layers over that for additional customization /state is anything thats not code or config, also has union layers like conf to permit customization anything not part of the os goes into unique / subdirs by vendor/project/whatever you need it to be. the critical requirements are that they stick with the hard distinction between code/config/state and union based layers for patching. whether non os config goes into /conf or a different / subtree per subsystem is left as a point of contention for future lols poo poo. i reinvented containers again.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2023 15:29
|
|
|
Chaotic evil: Everything goes in / as a single flat directory.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2023 15:30
|
|
|
Just use NixOS IMO.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2023 15:39
|
|
|
FlapYoJacks posted:Chaotic evil: Everything goes in / as a single flat directory. Is that how classic MacOS worked? I think I read that there's no real hierarchy, but the UI presents your files and programs like they're in separate folders. This is so abstract that I have no idea what difference this actually makes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2023 20:24
|
|
|
That loving Sned posted:Is that how classic MacOS worked? I think I read that there's no real hierarchy, but the UI presents your files and programs like they're in separate folders. The original Macintosh System Software had MFS which used a flat structure with fake folders but it was replaced after like a year with HFS which did allow real folders
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2023 20:49
|
|
|
ah, the S3 approach then
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2023 21:06
|
|
|
That loving Sned posted:Is that how classic MacOS worked? I think I read that there's no real hierarchy, but the UI presents your files and programs like they're in separate folders. like mycophobia said this is what it was under MFS you may be thinking of the Lisa Office System, where non-developers were entirely insulated from filesystems so users could do things like name multiple files in the same folder identically the downside of this was twofold: interoperability was almost entirely non-existent, which wasn’t that big a problem for end users then, and the developer tools had (almost) no integration with the desktop environment to develop on Lisa, you had to use a text-mode “Workshop executive” style environment very similar to the standard UCSD Pascal system, with menus accessed via key presses. the only real accommodation to the Lisa interface was the Edit application, which was a mouse-and-windows-and-clipboard text editor that used the same underlying APIs but didn’t integrate with the Office System in any way—so no folders full of source code, you had to know where your poo poo was or find it to open via the menu system there was no minicomputer-style shell either, despite many who worked on Lisa having previously worked on HP3000 MPE which had a pretty decent one. instead, you scripted by writing “exec files” that drove the executive by sending it key presses! (exec files did support variables, conditionals, looping, and invoking other exec files with arguments at least, all things that were there specifically made scripting builds easier, and the Lisa filesystem APIs supported wildcard matching too for similar reasons) a variant of the Workshop executive was also used to perform system installations and upgrades so they could be scripted in the same way one nice thing at least was that the Workshop executive exposed Lisa’s multitasking so even though it didn’t have pipelines and only had minimal I/O redirection, you could at least keep Edit running across builds and such if you had enough memory (and storage, since it had VM)
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2023 21:54
|
|
|
can’t believe Steve Jobs abandoned Lisa twice
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2023 23:46
|
|
|
I got sick of waiting for a good deal on a decent radeon card to replace my GTX 960 since the nvida proprietary drivers sucked so bad with wayland, so I ended up just getting a used radeon rx 6600 lite for now which was probably silly but it's nice that everything isn't randomly segfaulting
mystes fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Oct 29, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2023 15:12
|
|
|
FlapYoJacks posted:Chaotic evil: Everything goes in / as a single flat directory.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2023 18:55
|
|
|
didnt VMS kinda do that?
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2023 20:27
|
|
|
fresh_cheese posted:didnt VMS kinda do that? nah, ODS-2 and ODS-5 are fairly normal filesystems Record Management System is a file access API, and the filesystems do maintain record-oriented metadata (like whether a file’s records are fixed- or variable-size) and there’s also indexing support so text files don’t use line terminators, they have a 16-bit line-length prefix; files with fixed-size records don’t necessarily need such prefixes
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2023 21:18
|
|
|
mystes posted:I got sick of waiting for a good deal on a decent radeon card to replace my GTX 960 since the nvida proprietary drivers sucked so bad with wayland, so I ended up just getting a used radeon rx 6600 lite for now which was probably silly but it's nice that everything isn't randomly segfaulting A RX 6600 is a pretty good card if you snagged it below ~$160.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2023 21:20
|
|
|
BlankSystemDaemon posted:Villain mode: Store data in a relational database. s/villain/normal/ most modern filesystems use similar implementation techniques to relational databases, they just use a fixed schema with associated indexes and queries one of the original premises of both the BeOS filesystem and the Windows Longhorn WinFS was that they would allow variable schema, indexing, and querying so instead of an application having to impose a schema on a file or collection of them though a byte-oriented API, it could supply its own schema and have that integrated into the filesystem so your address book app could have an Addresses directory-and-table where each individual Address is a file in that directory, but also has a well-defined system-maintained structure internally—including both its own attributes and its relationships to other objects, like the People and Organizations associated with that address—and all of that stuff could be indexed automatically and queried via general-purpose APIs this is kind of an extension of minicomputer filesystems, which often had extensive support for record-oriented files with indexing and such supported by standard APIs so you didn’t necessarily need to layer a database on top of the system (unless you wanted a relational layer, which was typically implemented atop the lower-level indexed-record system)
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2023 21:32
|
|
|
A Bad King posted:A RX 6600 is a pretty good card if you snagged it below ~$160. even better would be this kind of rx6600 for under $160 one of those will run OpenVMS really, really well eschaton fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Oct 29, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2023 21:37
|
|
|
z/OS has the VSAM access method which is also a key value store ref: https://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg246105.pdf the real cool bit is VSAM rides on top of a disk architecture called ECKD ( extended count key data ) which is a disk hardware/firmware key value store, so its fast as all hell
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2023 22:14
|
|
|
A Bad King posted:A RX 6600 is a pretty good card if you snagged it below ~$160.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2023 22:18
|
|
|
linux 6.6 came out this weekend: https://lwn.net/Articles/949179/ excited to try the new eevdf scheduler, i'd like to be able to compile kernels on my laptop again without noticing more mouse latency or sound skipping during playback (without fiddling with nice or what have you)
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 10:02
|
|
|
database and lwn chat made me think about that lwn commenter who turns every conversation into a discussion about how the Pick database [designed by dick pick] is far superior to how everything is being done today
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 15:05
|
|
|
heh .. does anyone know how you enable eevdf, or how you can see it is active? screw reading through the whole patch series
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 22:32
|
|
|
eevdf replaced cfs entirely, there's no enabling or disabling it
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 22:43
|
|
|
Yeah, that confused me for a while too. No kconfig option or anything, it just replaces CFS entirely.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 22:46
|
|
|
ah lol that thought hit me first too, but then i was like "no that cant be right"
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 22:48
|
|
|
Tankakern posted:linux 6.6 came out this weekend: https://lwn.net/Articles/949179/ 6.6 has a lot of cool stuff in it:
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 23:06
|
|
|
cool
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2023 00:48
|
|
|
agreed
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2023 00:50
|
|
|
sick
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2023 01:01
|
|
|
tmpfs with quota support, ok. cool.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2023 07:42
|
|
|
what are bcachefs? what do they cook? what's a bca?
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2023 12:15
|
|
|
3D Megadoodoo posted:what are bcachefs? what do they cook? what's a bca?
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2023 13:05
|
|
|
prediction: bcachefs turns out relatively problem-free and good despite having had a fraction of the time and resources poured into it that btrfs has, but is basically orphaned in the next year as the one guy who has worked on it had his patreon money dry up (possibly murdering someone as a result of that frustration)
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2023 13:36
|
|
|
I’ll keep using EXT4 until there’s a compelling reason to switch that isn’t a bunch of nerd jerkoff mumbo Jumbo
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2023 13:40
|
|
|
Transparent compression and free fatfinger protection via snapshots is really compelling for me with ZFS. Compression is One Weird Trick that yields both disk savings and free I/O performance with no downside. You rarely get this kind of freebie in computing, and LZ4 compression only becomes a bottleneck when you are writing to multiple nvme flash devices from a single stream. Which is to say I never run into this bottleneck ever.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2023 14:45
|
|
|
FlapYoJacks posted:I’ll keep using EXT4 until there’s a compelling reason to switch that isn’t a bunch of nerd jerkoff mumbo Jumbo I'm still using ext4 because I don't really trust btrfs and I don't want to deal with zfs though
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2023 14:54
|
|
|
mystes posted:Snapshots are good and they work much better in an actual COW filesystem rather than using something like LVM FlapYoJacks posted:A bunch of nerd jerkoff mumbo Jumbo
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2023 15:00
|
|
|
Being able to access old versions of files or deleted files and restore to a known good state if updates fail isn't really "nerd mumbo jumbo" imo and to do that automatically in a good way without wasting tons of space requires a cow file system
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2023 15:10
|
|
|
mystes posted:cow file which one of these is a file?? 
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2023 15:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 23:37 |
|
|
Hey! Benno Rice spent quite a bit of time telling everyone to chill and treat systemd with the respect it deserves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo I liked the talk. The Q&A at the end has a few gems.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2023 16:03
|
|