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Oathbringer Prologue & Chapters 18-32 & Interludes (2nd half of Part 1) After saying the epigraph write was probably Jasnah I immediately had my mind changed. The writer says "I have no doubt that you are smarter than I am" which absolutely isn't Jasnah. I'm now thinking it's Dalinar dictating to someone, based on the heresy, ardents demands, and the claim to have changed as a person. The connection to the term "Oathbringer" fits him as well. If not him, then maybe the Sunmaker since he's been brought up a few times. Speaking of Jasnah though, she's back with the team! I'm so happy she's center stage again. I cannot wait to see everyone's reaction to her. Shallan obviously, but also Amaram, Taravangian, and especially Mraize. I think their goals will align for now, but he did try to have her killed once already. Mraize also has his green chicken with him, despite acting as a guard for Ialai. I really thought it was just a parrot when I first saw it, but now I'm thinking it might be an Aviar after reading about them in Sixth of the Dusk? Mraize, like Iyatil, is definitely a worldhopper. Unlike her, I'm not sure where he's from. I am even more worried about Shallan now. She's rapid fire changing identities, even if she has to come up with bullshit reasons why Veil or Shallan is somewhere. She's been going "Shallan can't do this, but Veil can, so I'm Veil now." At least she figured out Stormlight cures hangovers. She's also drawing stuff she doesn't remember drawing, maybe during the night she can't fully remember due to downing a whole bottle of Horneater White? The horror horse, horrorse if you will, was especially hosed up. I wonder if the nine heads mean anything with Odiums champion having nine shadows. Shallan hunting and fighting Re-Shephir was wild. When she was first described I was convinced a kandra was doing the killings. After all I've already seen one murderous kandra, and the weird bag with bones and eyeballs sounded like one. But it was one of the Unmade! And she was trying to understand humanity, that's cool and weird and scary all at once. Her creations sounded a lot like the voidbringers that Dalinar fought in one of his visions with a fire poker. Despite her retreating, we obviously haven't seen the last of the Midnight Mother. I did like Renarin taking up the role of healer in the fight though, his story has gone mostly untold. Malata is still suspicious, though making the distinction that she approached Taravangian out of convenience is helpful, if she's telling the truth. It's hard to tell, especially when she's casting doubt on the Desolation even coming. Funny that Pattern is prejudiced against the "Dustbringers", when Syl is in turn prejudiced against Pattern and the Cryptics. Amaram is back in action too, as Ialai's Highprince stand-in. There's so many factions all in the same place. The Envisagers, the Ghostbloods, Taravangian, and of course our crew. I'm ready for some poo poo to go down between them. I do wish Adolin wasn't so dumb sometimes though, it was beyond stupid to just blurt out to Shallan why Kaladin hates Amaram. She literally told him that she blamed Amaram for her brother's death, Adolin must have understood that he was disproving that? Dalinar really was a whole different person when he was the Blackthorn. It's so different that I'm not really sure how things changed for him. I'm assuming it has to do with Evi's death and his request to the Nightwatcher. If Dalinar is the epigraph writer, I'm worried the person who loved him dearly that he killed was Evi, and that's why he wanted to forget her. That kind of trauma would certainly change a man. In the present, Taravangian seems to be testing Dalinar with his morality questions. Taravangian probably doesn't want to kill Dalinar, but the desire to control things still might force him to try. The other nations continue to make things worse, including some actually siding with the Voidbringers, and Tezim claiming none but him are radiants. I really need to see this guy. When Dalinar found Oathbringer and asked why this sword didn't scream as much, I was surprised that it was the dead spren screaming and not his own. When Kaladin first touched a Shardblade he thought it was Syl's voice, so I always assumed it was the bonded spren having some reaction to the dead spren forming that false bond. Then Dalinar gives the sword to Ialai, though Amaram picked it up. I wonder what happens to it now, especially since I believe a book with its name is yet to be written. Kaladin is realizing that his mortal enemies are people too! I sorta thought we were beyond that with Shen/Rlain, but I guess not. Syl though, she seemed against helping them. I guess she's got some bias given that Honor and Odium are enemies. I'm not sure what middle ground Kaladin can find if stormspren can hijack the Parshendi. I'm also not sure why Kaladin just delivers the group he's with to the large camp. He knows there's voidspren with them, he knows the Parshendi can transform into stormform, how is he not delivering these people too yet another form of enslavement? At least we got some new information from his skirmish with the surgebinding Parshendi. I didn't realize that would happen, but it seems incredibly bad if they can get more of themselves bonded. Even if they're not as talented as Kaladin now, they'll learn. In her interlude, Venli seems to not like her bonded spren at all. Ulim is a bossy little poo poo. It is sad to lose Eshonai though. I was surprised about why Venli was sad to see her go. Not just that they were sisters, but also that Eshonai acted as a balance to Venli's radical ideas. Ulim is clearly happy to see her gone though. I'm curious about Eshonai's cometspren, since it stuck around after her death. Syl was fighting off some gloryspren as if they could try to bond Kaladin even though he was hers already, so I'd like the cometspren to "steal" Venli from Ulim. I'm not entirely sure what I'm supposed to get from the other two interludes though. Pulli's people have blue skin which is odd. Rysn met someone with blue skin and was told to keep her distance, apparently they're bad luck. Puuli also seems to think Kelek is the Herald who lives in the storm, though his beliefs seem different from those around him. "They'll come with Light in their pockets" sounds like Radiants, but they're coming to destroy. His grandfather also called them "sailors lost on an infinite sea", which is pretty hardcore. As for Ellista, it makes sense that all of the ardents read smut in their down time. Her and Urv both seem to be into it at least. Funny though that they straight up don't believe Navani's story about Dalinar's visions. And, I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure I care about the mechanics of translating the Dawnchant. I assume Urv's patron that wants a particular section translated will be important. I am mostly ready for the epigraphs to move beyond the preface, but with so many people all at Urithiru, I'm ready for some spying and sneaking and jockeying for position, and possibly some more assassinations now that Re-Shephir is scared of Shallan. Progress so far: 
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Oct 30, 2023 04:46
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pik_d posted:As for Ellista, it makes sense that all of the ardents read smut in their down time. Her and Urv both seem to be into it at least... I assume Urv's patron that wants a particular section translated will be important As in our world, 90% of translation commissions are poorly written foreign smut.
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Oct 30, 2023 05:06
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https://i.imgur.com/QmzrAya.mp4
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Oct 30, 2023 16:38
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Way of Kings Part 4 Not much left in this book. Part 4 has been pretty drat good. Even if it started of a bit slow, it felt less slow than previous parts but that's probably because the pacing wasn't constantly broken up by the most boring flashback chapters in existence. I'm going to be a bit briefer in my thoughts on this part. - As mentioned, I'm glad that we didn't have flashbacks as a feature in this part. They absolutely destroyed the pacing if previous parts. We get one flashback - the moment of Tien's death. And it is used well and doesn't feel like we're putting the world on hold for Kaladin to cry about a little girl who fell out of a tree. - Dalinar's visions continue to be cool. They're fun mysteries. And they just show how much we still don't know. It's exciting!! - It's nice to see that Kaladin got his powers and is coming into his own. The Parshendi carapace armor is brutal, disgusting, and incredible. It was nice to see an idea sprout and get utilized within a short time. I feel like Brandon loves planting seeds that are 'holy gently caress' moments in the future, but sometimes it's nice to just go straight from idea to execution and everything be cool. - I really enjoyed the moment between Hoid and Kaladin. That flute feels like one of those "seeds" being planted. - Sadeus is a bastard and it's nice that we didn't have to wait too long for confirmation. When I saw that the chapter was called "The Tower" (and this is where some places on the internet mark the start of the Sanderlanche), I definitely was not expecting things to go the way they did. I was as shocked by Sadeus's sudden betrayal as Dalinar. I knew Sadeus would be a shithead at some point, I just wasn't expecting it this book. - THE RETURN OF THE SIDE CARRY. That had me hootin' and hollerin'. It actually reminded me of a moment from Elantris, but done right. One thing that I loving hated about Elantris was the whole noblewomen fencing substory. We spend so many chapters focusing on Sarene teaching the women of the court to fence. And then during the final battle, these "defenseless" women surprise their captors by pulling out swords.... and then are immediately defeated. Like it accomplished nothing. They didn't save anyone. They didn't defeat anyone. It wasn't cool. It wasn't exciting. It felt like just a waste. But not the side carry!!! Bringing that back and having it be successful was a great moment. - Eshonai. That's the name of the chapter with the Parshendi Shardbearer. I've seen that name before as a character within these books, so I assume that's the name of the currently unnamed Shardbearer. I assume we'll see that shardbearer again before the end of this book, if not, I have some thoughts on some choices here - and they aren't positive. - Another thing I wonder - the epigraphs - are we going to get any insight into what they are? Part 1 and 4 are both death quotes. Part 2 was a letter (I assume from Hoid) and Part 3 was quotes that Jasnah had collected. I find myself frustrated with these. The thing that I loved about the Mistborn books is that the epigraphs were, generally speaking, directly relevant to the struggles and mysteries of each specific book. These... don't feel like they are. That's frustrating to me. I think this flows into one of the main problems I have with the book. And maybe it's a problem with high fantasy series in general. And that problem is: the sharing information with the reader that is not seen/shown/experienced by any characters and never directly referenced by anything else in the story. It is the information that is put in there that has no direct impact on the story of the book and is only there for you to come back on a reread after reading earlier books so you can do the Leo pointing meme. Like with Eshonai - it's the name of the chapter. It's never a name spoken by anyone. It's never directly referenced in the text of the chapters. Without looking directly at spoilers, I did a CTRL+F and searched for "Eshonai" on the Way of Kings summary page on Coppermind and the name doesn't seem to come up at all in the final part. And again with the epigraphs - with how short part 5 is, I doubt we're going to get a big explanation for these death quotes. They've all been borderline gibberish nonsense. They don't improve the story. They don't affect the characters in any way. Hell, they don't even add much in the way of flavor to the world like the non-connected Interludes do. We haven't had much talk about Odium in this book at this point - despite him being a central antagonist of the entire series. I think the only mention in the text was via the dream Kaladin had and then Kaladin mentioning it to Syl. But that doesn't bother me because it's something happening with the characters. If there was a chapter named "ODIUM" and the characters never mentioned or referenced him throughout the entire book, it would feel so pointless. To me, a lot of this just ends up feeling incredibly self indulgent by Brandon. I don't know, is this something that high fantasy stories usually do? Is he just playing to genre conventions? It frustrates me because it's like - okay, what do you want me to do with this information? It's not bettering my understanding of the story or the characters or the events. Well gently caress, wasn't as brief as I expected. Anyway, on to the final part!
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Oct 30, 2023 19:24
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Ok
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Oct 30, 2023 19:32
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Mordiceius posted:Way of Kings Part 4 This is me whenever I realize I post more and more each time. Part Five is short, I'm excited to see if any of your opinions change in that time.
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Oct 30, 2023 19:35
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Mordiceius posted:And again with the epigraphs - with how short part 5 is, I doubt we're going to get a big explanation for these death quotes. They've all been borderline gibberish nonsense. They don't improve the story. They don't affect the characters in any way. Hell, they don't even add much in the way of flavor to the world like the non-connected Interludes do. None of the death rattles are gibberish.
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Oct 30, 2023 19:55
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Mordiceius posted:Sadeus quote:Another thing I wonder - the epigraphs - are we going to get any insight into what they are? Part 1 and 4 are both death quotes. Part 2 was a letter (I assume from Hoid) and Part 3 was quotes that Jasnah had collected. quote:I find myself frustrated with these. The thing that I loved about the Mistborn books is that the epigraphs were, generally speaking, directly relevant to the struggles and mysteries of each specific book. These... don't feel like they are. That's frustrating to me. Also, some of this may just be an audiobook thing. They're definitely meant to be something you come back and look over again later on, either to read the entire piece in its entirety or because something has happened and you're going "wait, I've heard about this!"
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Oct 30, 2023 20:15
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CapnAndy posted:So I very much disagree with that last bit; they add a lot to the flavor of the world. Each epigraph is at least a portion of an in-world document; you wouldn't get to see those documents otherwise, which is why they're being presented to you in that form. And each one, at the very least, reflects the plot. There's always a reason you're being shown each section's epigraph. Always. Yeah. Maybe it is an audiobook thing. Because when I hear them, if they mention a specific name or anything, if I don't have anything to connect it to, my brain immediately dumps it out. And when these chapters are 45minites to an hour long, I'm not going to remember anything from 5 epigraphs ago when they're all so disconnected. I definitely prefer the format of the letter to the death rattles. pik_d was nice enough to send me a list of all the epigraphs so I could look back over them. But yeah, due to the nature of audiobooks, I'm not going skimming back to old epigraphs. And at this point, all of the death rattles seem like some variation of "The everstorm comes. The true desolation is upon us." repeated 50 different ways. To which I'm like "Okay.  " I'm sure that's important to the greater arc of the series but it hasn't really meant much to me so far.
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Oct 30, 2023 20:24
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There are a fair number of those epigraphs that have, if not just understandably in the moment, relevance for the chapter. They frequently have relevance for where the story taking place in that chapter will go. They always felt to me a bit more like a cipher you can attempt to understand at the beginning of each chapter. They might not matter, they might matter but they are part of the narrative that I feel can be a fair bit necessary. Edit- Now that I look back at it, I guess I mean story instead of chapter. I cannot stand audio-books so I've not listened to any Sanderson books in that fashion to understand how the epigraphs sound. There are a few times, listening to Mistborn with my friends in the background during a camping trip, in which I quite enjoyed a book read/listen. Perhaps reading the epigraphs actually improves the experience. TGG fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Oct 30, 2023 |
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Oct 30, 2023 20:25
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I always felt the epigraphs added to the overall lore and/or culture of Roshar as a whole and weren't necessary to comprehend the story yet did add some interesting context at times.
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Oct 30, 2023 20:32
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Louisgod posted:I always felt the epigraphs added to the overall lore and/or culture of Roshar as a whole and weren't necessary to comprehend the story yet did add some interesting context at times. Yeah. It seems I should just think of them in that context. I’ll treat them more as world building than trying to understand any direct story reference. It is my fault for considering them in the same way as the ones in Mistborn.
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Oct 30, 2023 20:36
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Mordiceius posted:Yeah. Maybe it is an audiobook thing. Because when I hear them, if they mention a specific name or anything, if I don't have anything to connect it to, my brain immediately dumps it out. And when these chapters are 45minites to an hour long, I'm not going to remember anything from 5 epigraphs ago when they're all so disconnected. I definitely prefer the format of the letter to the death rattles. pik_d was nice enough to send me a list of all the epigraphs so I could look back over them. You can also look up the death rattles for specific sections of the book. So when you finish the book go back and look up the ones for WoK. There are some that should make sense once you have finished the book.
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Oct 30, 2023 20:39
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Mordiceius posted:Yeah. It seems I should just think of them in that context. I’ll treat them more as world building than trying to understand any direct story reference. It is my fault for considering them in the same way as the ones in Mistborn. Nah it's not your fault, Mistborn set some precedent that the beginning chapter blurbs tied well into the story, and were extremely clear once you were clued into what they were referencing. It's not really the case with TWoK in that they're not needed to understand what's going on.
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Oct 30, 2023 20:41
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The death rattles are special in that, where most epigraphs either make sense immediately or at the very least by the end of their book, the events they're prophesizing are spread over at least the first five books.
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Oct 30, 2023 20:42
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The audiobook format makes it much harder to interpret, as you lack the formatting queues.
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Oct 30, 2023 20:47
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You can also look up the epigraphs at any time by just googling "<book> <section> epigraphs", they're all maintained on the wikis.
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Oct 30, 2023 22:14
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The Way of Kings - Part 5 It is over. I have finished it. If you want the TLDR of my thoughts: I am glad to have gone on this journey but that's not to say the journey was enjoyable. Part 5 Spoiler More Shallan, finally! Glad to see her finally come clean about things with Jasnah - and actually be clever enough to surprise Jasnah. Jasnah and Shallan continue to be two of my favorite characters in this book, despite receiving less pages than the others. Taravangian is an evil fucker. I actually had this indirectly spoiled for me about a week ago. I saw this one Q&A with Brandon where he was talking about villains from his books and he mentioned both Hrathen and Taravangian. It was a "oh, I guess he's not the simple minded king he's presented as" moment for me. Didn't bother me too much luckily, since I was already approaching the end. I wasn't expecting the death rattles to be connected to him and his plans. GHOSTBLOODS! GHOSTBLOODS! GHOSTBLOODS!!!! What the gently caress are they up to and what to do they want? Other than that, I don't really find much to talk about here. I agree with pik_d that the "voice" Dalinar was hearing being revealed essentially a recording on loop feels like a little bit of a cop out. Seems like it was like a pseudo-cognitive shadow of Honor. I'm sure it has been revealed at this point that Shadesmar is the Cognitive Realm. I was able to piece that together due to similarities to the similar place for Scadrial in Secret History - which pik_d hadn't read yet. Overall, not much to say other than this whole part feels like a "and the heroes are taking a breather before the next book!!!!" Overall Way of Kings Thoughts I don't think this book is good. It's not bad, but it's not good either. There are two major issues that I take with this book. The first problem is, as already touched on, the pacing. I know, I know "journey before destination" and all that poo poo but goddamn did it feel like this journey was stretched way too thin without much of anything going on. Again, I would compare reading this book to the part of the American cross-country road trip when you hit the border of Texas. The road is going to be pretty straight, pretty flat, and there's not going to be much to see for the next 20+ hours. I know that this is book 1 of 10, but I wanted at least something more from the book. Obviously, we're going to be left with many mysteries of the world after just one book, but it is basically all questions, no answers, and the world doesn't really change much. It's over 1000 pages (or 45.5 hours) of character/world set-up and... that's basically it. I feel like this should be the first 30-40% of a story that is missing other 60-70%. And not like as a greater series, but as a single book. Imagine taking The Final Empire and ending the book right before Vin goes to the first ball at Keep Venture... but also you stretch that out to 1000 pages. I spent the first 80% of this book begging for something, anything to happen. And by the end of the book, the pieces of the board have been moved slightly, but the world is still basically the same as it ever was. No major changes have happened. I find that deeply unsatisfying. The second problem I have with the book is the frequent addition of information that is given to the reader without context and is never discussed in the actual text to any degree. I thought the death rattles were going to be this way, but with a minute to midnight, that finally got revealed. The biggest example of this I can point to is naming chapter 68 "Eshonai." I assume that is the name of the Parshendi Shardbearer from that chapter. But I also know that Eshonai is the name of a character within the series due to seeing that name around here before. But like, what point is it there to using that name for a chapter? At no point is there a hint that it is the name of the Parshendi Shardbearer. It is never spoken by anyone. You can't compare it to a "clue" thing like Vin's earring. The only time that name appears in the text of WoK is literally in the name of that chapter. You can't even point to it as worldbuilding because... it's not referenced in any way or utilized to deepen our understanding of the word. I'm sure this doesn't bother many people, but I find it incredibly pointless and frustrating. Overall, there is just barely enough to love that I think I would say this book is worth reading, but I would rather go through The Well of Ascension again because at least stuff happens in that book - and most of that book is spent with people standing around and waiting due to the siege. quote:CURRENT SANDERSON RANKINGS - EDIT: For the record, I am very excited to start the next book. If only because I hear so many good things about Book 2 and Book 3 (and honestly, the complaints I see about Book 4 aren't things I think I'll find problems with). Mordiceius fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Oct 31, 2023 |
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Oct 31, 2023 22:41
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book 2 is a lot worse than book 1, because it has less worldbuilding and features more shallan I will not be taking further questions at this time
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Oct 31, 2023 23:39
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Taffer posted:book 2 is a lot worse than book 1, because it has less worldbuilding and features more shallan That sounds like exactly the book I want. Shallan rules and book one had so much worldbuilding that it forgot to tell a story.
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Oct 31, 2023 23:39
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WoR is a million times better. The entire series is about dudes with magic powers and bigass swords and awesome magical armor, and WoR is when they finally start to actually get those things and start doing cool poo poo.
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Oct 31, 2023 23:44
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I mean all the magic poo poo is fun no doubt, but the real meat of the series thus far has been exploring the very intricate world (much more work was put into Roshar than Sanderson's other worlds, including Scadrial), and the very powerful character moments that get really strong buildup to make the payoff as powerful as possible. As far as I'm concerned most of the magic just provides the aesthetic backdrop and emphasis for those moments. It's really impressive how consistently Sanderson makes the particular magic fit so well to so many characters specific situations, both as a foil and as a metaphorical overcoming of their issues. Book 2 has some wonderful moments in that sense, but it's really overshadowed by very poor pacing (maybe I'm the outlier here, but I think the pacing of book 2 is way worse than book 1), Shallan's story goes all over the place and never seems focused on any particular goal or direction, and her inner-monologue dominates the book and it is unimaginably tedious to listen to. I find Shallan interesting in how crucial she is to important reveals in the broader story, but her specific arcs and her overall character are incredibly tedious and bring out the worst in Sanderson's writing IMO. But the non-Shallan parts feel a bit weird too, the situation in the war camps is a really odd status quo that doesn't really move anywhere for the whole book, you get lots of individual moments with the main cast but they feel strangely disconnected from what's going on around those characters. And as mentioned, there's a shockingly small amount of world-building compared to all of the other books so far - books 1, 3, and 4 are all bursting at the seems with amazing worldbuilding, but book 2 seems to just put a pause on almost all of that. We just get tidbits, and I think that's a bummer.
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Nov 1, 2023 00:07
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Its all alright because we got Oathbringer out of the deal.
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Nov 1, 2023 02:00
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WoR has good interpersonal drama though. Remember when Shallan steals Kaladins boots and then they have a blowout argument in the palace foyer. Even bridge 4 saw she was cooking his rear end
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Nov 1, 2023 02:03
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Mordiceius posted:The Way of Kings - Part 5 Yeah I had no Idea what I was looking at when I first saw Shadesmar, I'm not sure exactly when I figured it out but it's probably in a WoR post of mine. What I found really cool is that the different systems have the Cognitive Realm represented in different ways, based on how things worked in the Physical Realm. Shards using the mist and magic can come from the mists? Your Cogntive Realm is misty. Magic that involves spheres, your Cogntive Realm is a giant ball pit. Good luck. I also went back in this post and looked at some of the death quotes that made more sense after the fact, though I'm sure I missed some self contained in WoK: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3334571&userid=93073&pagenumber=3#post533914966
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Nov 1, 2023 02:17
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M_Gargantua posted:Its all alright because we got Oathbringer out of the deal. 
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Nov 1, 2023 06:46
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pik_d posted:I also went back in this post and looked at some of the death quotes that made more sense after the fact, though I'm sure I missed some self contained in WoK: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3334571&userid=93073&pagenumber=3#post533914966
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Nov 1, 2023 06:59
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As I was reading SP4, I kept finding myself wanting to jot down little notes and observations, so I kept a post open where I did that every time something new occurred to me. My original plan was that I was going to use this as a reminder of what I wanted to talk about but edit it down into something coherent, but somewhere along the line, I decided that no, I like it better this way. So here it is, now that I'm all done reading:
I think Tress edges it out in the overall rankings because that was so self-contained and effortlessly charming and fun. My final rankings are Tress > Sunlit > Yumi > Frugal, which is not a slight on Yumi and not even one on Frugal. edit: Now that I can read the spoilers about SP4: RC Cola posted:SP4 spoilers/full cosmere. CapnAndy fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 05:17
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CapnAndy posted:Y’know, you should go back and look at those again. No reason. I recently saw that Re-Shephir was mentioned in them, in a way that fits with how she operates. I'll try to do a more thorough read through of them (and other epigraphs) after I finish Oathbringer, speaking of which: Oathbringer Prologue & Chapters 33-45 (1st half of Part 2) I have completely given up on figuring out who this section's epigraph writer is. It feels like a Shard in some ways, talking about Aona and Skai as contemporaries. They're against multiple Shards in the same system, so that discounts Cultivation which I briefly considered. Maybe Autonomy? But I think that's Trell, the random guy from White Sand. So maybe this is just some other Shard since I don't know all of them, and who is Uli Da? Hoid being the bearer of the First Gem sounds cool though, and reminds me of "the Element" and "the gemstone" that is dead in the WoK and WoR epigraphs. Jasnah is back and immediately back to business. What a boss. Pretty ruthless though, first she's pretty OK with using spren in fabrials. "There are spren and there are spren" is very similar to the Stormfather's true spren and subspren. Later on she and her mother are on board with Parshendi genocide since a hostile faction with them are bent on the complete annihilation of humanity. Not topical at all. Very interested in seeing her Shadesmar investigation within Urithiru. The Bridge Four chapters were really fun. Sigzil is way more Azesh than he ever came off from Kaladin's POV, and I enjoyed his pop at Kaladin after the dumbest Radiant in the world told Lyn that she could be a scribe because "You're a woman, aren't you?" I hope she gets a fun spren bonded with her. Rock was probably the highlight though, since he got to actually see Syl's fellow honorspren hanging around Bridge Four looking over their options of who to bond. But he can't see Renarin's spren, there's something going on there, but I haven't seen enough of Renarin to figure it out. And more members of Bridge Four healing themselves with Stormlight! Teft was depressing, he's basically a heroin addict, but at least he's getting help. I was surprised to see Graves eat a few pounds of steel before Moash became a slave again just minutes after thinking about how useless the Shardplate was when he wasn't wearing it. I'm sure we'll come back to him, either a self sacrifice or a proper redemption, not sure which. Kaladin has taken a back seat in the plot for now, but he's still managing to get in arguments with the women around Adolin, this time his aunt and cousin... err step-mother and step-sister... whatever Navani and Jasnah are to him now. Looking forward to him going to Kholinar though, especially if Shallan tags along. Gotta keep the Adolin/Kaladin/Shallan power throuple together. Shallan does need some support though. Is there a Therapy Radiant Order? Can Renarin blast her with some healing magic? Does that work on mental issues? Probably not, but if it does they can fix Talenel too! I absolutely cannot wait until Shallan/Veil/Brightness Radiant gets her own squires like what Kaladin has. That'll obviously be Brightness Radiant's job, and I'm still curious who, if anyone, Adolin will become a squire under. Also Shallan is absolutely going to get her feelings hurt by having someone unload about her to "Veil". She's practically begging Gaz and Vathah to trash Shallan behind her own back. I can't wait for Ishnah to try to convince Veil to betray Shallan. Mraize's message to Shallan about Helaran was frustrating simply because Pattern went "this has lies in it" so I'm not sure what to believe, though most of it seems pretty solid based on what I know. Except maybe that I've conflated the Envisagers and the Sons of Honor, unless they're one and the same? But I think the biggest thing in these chapters was the Stormfather actually giving some important information about the Heralds to Dalinar and Navani. The first Voidbringers were given power by Odium and refused to pass on (which instantly made me go "Hey, Kelsier is basically a Voidbringer!"). Then those first Voidbringers have repeatedly Fused with living listeners which has hurt their soul more and more each time, resulting in what we have today. The Heralds were given power to lock them away in Damnation (which I still think is the planet Ashyn, or Braize, and them being on Ashyn is linked to the Voidbringers being on Braize?), but once one relents they all have to return too. The other Heralds, realizing how resilient Talenel is, left him all alone for ~4,500 years until he basically became a mindless tape recorder with a sword (that is currently missing). And Honor also somehow died around that time? I know, from Edgedancer, that Nale has gone through a face turn and is good now, probably. I'd like him to show up soon, possibly having gathered some of the more sane Heralds and maybe even the less sane ones. He'll be a huge help to our crew even if it's just him. And Lift can somehow do the impossible! Dalinar thought he was doing so well, showing Fen then Gawx his visions. Then Lift pops in, compliments his butt, and leaves with Gawx. Not the best first impression, but hopefully Lift gives Dalinar another chance. If not I hope things continue to be funny at least. Cool drawings this time, especially the weird flying ships with the sails underneath. I'm guessing that's more ancient fabrial work that Navani will figure out. Progress so far:
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Nov 3, 2023 02:11
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Oathbringer Prologue & Chapters 46-57 & Part 2 Interludes (2nd half of Part 2) Once Sazed showed up I realized that actually it was multiple messages to Hoid in the epigraphs. The first one is definitely some shard that is alone in a system. Autonomy in Taldain? Endowment in Nalthian? Somewhere I haven't seen yet? The second one uses "us" and "we" so either a system with multiple Shards, or a group like the Ire? The third one is one billion percent Sazed though. The theme though seems to be Hoid needing some help from various powers, and them not really wanting to get involved with Roshar and Odium/Rayse at all. I am still curious who Uli Da is, and where Obrodai is? I really like the various Bridge Four chapters, Skar and Lyn figuring out Stormlight was rewarding, especially after Kaladin overlooked Lyn at first. Rlain too, he's fully in that "between two worlds" situation, at least Kaladin is going to try and understand him. Moash, however, is just a goddamn idiot. Yeah sure these slavers are definitely totally better than the other ones because they're new and different. gently caress off. He does show us some things, like that the Fused seem to have power that doesn't run out like Stormlight does. That could just be what Szeth said in the WoK prologue, that Voidbringers hold Stormlight perfectly, or it could be that their power comes from Odium and is just different in its violet blackness. His conversation with Leshwi was weird. His name is of Parshendi origin? She's not even mad he killed her? The "It's not your fault" thoughts he's having are odd too, almost could be a spren if it's not just his own brain absolving himself. Some interesting Jasnah/Ivory stuff here, with some childhood trauma being brought up by her and also in Dalinar's flashback. Ivory is an inkspren, which took a long time to reveal for no real reason. And Jasnah knows why the Recreance happened, but won't share because it might break other people to know the reasons. I am looking forward to Jasnah doing some investigating in Shadesmar within Urithiru, whether she finds some spren, Heralds, or something else. If Amaram has Talanel stashed somewhere nearby she'll almost certainly find him. Dalinar is making some headway with the various leaders, using the visions to convince Fen and Gawx that actually what's coming is even worse than an Alethi Highprince on their lands. I think Navani is going to find Feverstone Keep after investigating in the vision, but Odium showing up was absolutely wild. Poor Stormfather, first some weird girl can invade his visions, and now the worst Shard in the Cosmere pops in. I finally get confirmation that Cultivation isn't dead, just hiding, and that the Nightwatcher is of her. Does that mean that Lift and even Dalinar have a bit of Cultivation in them? Odium also insinuates that Dalinar, due to his bond with the biggest splinter of Honor, and being a Bondsmith, can release Odium in some way? I'm not sure the other Shards in the Cosmere should be so comfortable with things if a mortal man can do that. Odium sensed Lift too, and she's come around to Dalinar's side as he's clearly the lesser evil here from her POV. Even if he's got Alethkar's rear end. RIP to Kaza the Interlude Soulcaster. There's something going on over at Aimia though, and the Sleepless are guarding it. Sounds fun, let's go check that out Brandon. I wonder if Cultivation is over there? Taravangian is still a piece of poo poo, I'm curious about his plan though, Dalinar has dealt with his secrets getting out from Sadeas. I'm assuming this will be about Evi though, because those boring (I'm sorry, they are) flashbacks have to ammount to something. It's telegraphing that Dalinar killed Evi so he probably didn't actually kill her. Good luck to Taravangian with his plan to negotiate with Odium though. That's work for sure. Venli, this cometspren, the "This one is mine" which mirrored Syl talking about Kaladin. This feels like Eshonai came back as a spren and entered Venli instead of a Fused, which made it so Venli didn't have to die in the process. The Fused however, they feel like the Heralds of the Voidbringers. They seem unique. Are there going to be nine of the important named ones? Nine seems to be Odium's number like ten for Honor and sixteen for Preservation. I'm really looking forward to Shallan and Kaladin doing more soon enough, especially with their trips to Thaylenah and Kholinar. I am worried that the Fused are also probably going towards Kholinar though. Might be a confrontation there, and our Radiants still haven't said all their Ideals. I would really like a Renarin POV because all of his stuff is coming from other POVs, but he's not in the Part 3 title card. There's something going on with him that I don't know enough about to figure out. Amaram doesn't really deserved to be mentioned other than that he's so easy to hate and I wish he had given Jasnah an excuse to vaporize him. Hell, I wish she vaporized him anyway. Progress so far:
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Nov 6, 2023 22:24
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Your writeups make me want to do a reread of the Cosmere stuff. Actually, they make me want to do a reread and then another immediate reread so I can catch all the plot hooks and forward references built in, while everything is still fresh in my mind.
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Nov 6, 2023 22:35
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pik, you're on a lot of very fruitful paths, so I'll just react to two minor things:pik_d posted:Moash... his name is of Parshendi origin? As for the other thing, I have nothing constructive, I just want to say that Syl getting jealous and swatting away a gloryspren was an adorable moment.
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Nov 6, 2023 23:01
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Two terrific posts as always. I want to write so much more, pik_d, but don't want to spoil you. I'll definitely have more to say once you've finished OB! There were so many interesting things you wrote here. Especially the SA5 implications made me reevaluate the SA5 prologue. But I'll have to do a thorough reread of SP4 before I can write more, and I don't think I'll have time for that this month. 
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Nov 6, 2023 23:02
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pik_d posted:Moash, however, is just a goddamn idiot. Yeah sure these slavers are definitely totally better than the other ones because they're new and different. gently caress off. He does show us some things, like that the Fused seem to have power that doesn't run out like Stormlight does. That could just be what Szeth said in the WoK prologue, that Voidbringers hold Stormlight perfectly, or it could be that their power comes from Odium and is just different in its violet blackness. His conversation with Leshwi was weird. His name is of Parshendi origin? She's not even mad he killed her? The "It's not your fault" thoughts he's having are odd too, almost could be a spren if it's not just his own brain absolving himself I mean in terms of material conditions he ain't wrong, we saw what the alethi did to the parshendi (systematic genocide), and what the alethi do to their own people as slaves, the fused legitimately seem to have a less oppressive system for the humans under their control
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Nov 6, 2023 23:07
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I've started Words of Radiance!  Thinking back to Way of Kings, I have some lingering questions (I assume I am supposed to still be wondering about the following). 1 - The orb that Gavilar gave Szeth? That hasn't been mentioned again, right? 2 - Gavilar's words to Dalinar. Something about a phrase for men or something. I can't remember. But this hasn't been addressed? Maybe it gives Dalinar power or something in the future? 3 - In the interludes, in the Kilika-like water area (Great Lake?), the three dudes that show up looking for Hoid. I know from outside sources that they're worldhoppers and their true identities. Do these ever get referenced further in later stories? Or is that just a brief "oh, those guys" and they never show up again? 4 - I'm still annoyed by one chapter in the book being named "Eshonai"
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Nov 6, 2023 23:36
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Mordiceius posted:I've started Words of Radiance! In the spirit of hopefully making this more enjoyable for you... 1 - correct, that orb hasn't come up again (yet? :p) and we have no idea where it is or what it was 2 - "Brother, you must find the most important words a man can say" is what Gavilar told Szeth to tell Dalinar (who then wrote them using Gavilar's blood and finger on the stone!) It hasn't explicitly come up yet 3 - they come up later, but obliquely and infrequently. Their main significance is that world hoppers from multiple locations are interested in Roshar m, are on the planet, and investigating/interfering with what's going on there 4 - well ok then!
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Nov 6, 2023 23:58
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DarkHorse posted:In the spirit of hopefully making this more enjoyable for you... With 1 & 2, I was mainly checking to make sure I didn't miss any detail on those (which it seems I didn't.) With 3 & 4, there is an element of personal frustration with something Brandon seems to have done with the Stormlight Archive (well, with The Way of Kings at least, I can't speak to the other books yet.) First to the Eshonai point - at no point in the story is the name ever uttered or even referenced. I know that Eshonai is a character due to discussions I've seen here (I assume it was the Parshendi Shardbearer). This is such a minor hang-up, but it still bothers me - why name a chapter with a word that is never used in the narrative at all. At the point of reading that chapter, "Eshonai" might as well be a gibberish word. No one speaks it. No one addresses it. And furthermore, it is not like the word gives any hints or clues to the reader. So there isn't even the excuse of "Oh, well Brandon was putting in clues of future things." It feels so... unnecessary in a way that his stuff usually isn't. And to the worldhopper point - checking on the Coppermind, it looks like that trio of Demoux, Galladon, and third person I don't know, never get directly named ever in the series. The only actual confirmation of their identities is from outside sources (mainly convention/youtube Q&As). Maybe I shouldn't get hung up on this but I feel like the answers to the questions should be in the text. Maybe there's something here that I missed. I had just check Demoux's Coppermind entry and there isn't a single Stormlight reference to him beyond Way of Kings.
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Nov 7, 2023 00:16
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CapnAndy posted:pik, you're on a lot of very fruitful paths, so I'll just react to two minor things: Sounds like the implications are that the Parshendi and humans co-existed at some point between the last Desolation and now, in a peaceful way that allowed for names to cross between them? Maybe I'm reading more into that then is there, but yeah maybe if all the Fused got nuked things could be chill. Tunicate posted:I mean in terms of material conditions he ain't wrong, we saw what the alethi did to the parshendi (systematic genocide), and what the alethi do to their own people as slaves, the fused legitimately seem to have a less oppressive system for the humans under their control Yes, but it's such a weird hosed up self-hating thing to go "Yes, Yes!! Enslave us!! I bow down to my new Parshendi overlords! Oh wait you're not living up to my weird hosed up standards of cool slavers, guess I'll train these guys with sticks now.
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Nov 7, 2023 00:23
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DarkHorse posted:In the spirit of hopefully making this more enjoyable for you... great can't wait
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Nov 7, 2023 00:48
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Mordiceius posted:With 1 & 2, I was mainly checking to make sure I didn't miss any detail on those (which it seems I didn't.) Those 3 are supposed to be the most minor of easter eggs I wouldn't dwell on those kinda things too much it'll drive you mad. The rest comes eventually which is not what you want to hear a billion pages/hours in but it is what it is. I will say the slog is worth it, although I could see how it could not be for everyone.
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Nov 7, 2023 00:49
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