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Yeah, I'd absolutely love to respect politically aware non-voters decisions because punishing the Democratic establishment by withholding your vote is a tactic to force them to recognize your interests. But usually those non-voters are those who would not be persecuted by a full mask off GOP.
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Oct 30, 2023 19:52
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Morrow posted:Yeah, I'd absolutely love to respect politically aware non-voters decisions because punishing the Democratic establishment by withholding your vote is a tactic to force them to recognize your interests. Yeah, it's hard to have to respect for someone who is looking at the evil poo poo the GOP and christians are doing to women, trans folks, and democracy in general and say "Oh yes, this was a reasonable choice for you to make!" in light of Trump winning and the GOP using every opportunity afterwards to get as many minorities killed as legally possible at the time. It's the whole "making the perfect the enemy of the good" and pretending that a bunch of stuff that was never going to change in upcoming election cycles that is bad would be changed by not voting. All while letting poo poo you could possibly contribute to changing and saving actual lives go undone because (insert reason here). If the right wing wins because of that sort of pseudo-doomerism some of the blood of the people they end up driving to suicide or killing via a lack of healthcare ends up on the hands of those who didn't vote. At the end of the day it just comes off as kind of pathetic to me. Archonex fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Oct 30, 2023 |
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Oct 30, 2023 20:04
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Morrow posted:Yeah, I'd absolutely love to respect politically aware non-voters decisions because punishing the Democratic establishment by withholding your vote is a tactic to force them to recognize your interests. I've personally taken the opinion that they just share a mindset with the crazy people on the Republican side although with VASTLY different beliefs: "If others have to suffer for my moral high ground that's totally fine."
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Oct 30, 2023 20:07
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Retro42 posted:I've personally taken the opinion that they just share a mindset with the crazy people on the Republican side although with VASTLY different beliefs: "If others have to suffer for my moral high ground that's totally fine." This is true, yeah. I literally pointed out at least one post way back at the beginning of this conversation days ago that basically said this. To add salt on the wound, said post was also preluded by someone else pointing out that their family can't afford to indulge in such wishy washy nonsense since they have a trans nephew. It's the essence of what essentially makes up privileged majority politics and it's absolutely cancerous to actual real progress. Sadly, this sort of awful mentality exists on both sides of the aisle in certain types. It's just that it's more noticeable on the right usually since their general ideology embraces it rather than decries it as the problematic thing it is. Archonex fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Oct 30, 2023 |
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Oct 30, 2023 20:08
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 30, 2023 20:29
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The UAW negoatied a contract with Ford today, which makes the last one they were still negotating on.
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Oct 30, 2023 21:12
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Twincityhacker posted:The UAW negoatied a contract with Ford today, which makes the last one they were still negotating on. They kicked real rear end on this. It’s impressive.
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Oct 30, 2023 21:21
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Twincityhacker posted:The UAW negoatied a contract with Ford today, which makes the last one they were still negotating on. GM not Ford, but point still stands. Ford was the first one to come to an agreement with the UAW.
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Oct 30, 2023 21:40
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 30, 2023 21:40
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Dubar posted:Lots of people have gotten probations, some people have gotten angry. Zero minds have been changed or stimulated For the record, I have been considering a personal policy of "never vote for anyone over age 65 again" but I may be reconsidering based on this argument. Might still stick to my original guns, but we will see. (I would leave the ballot blank before I vote for Trump)
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Oct 30, 2023 21:44
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Dubar posted:Lots of people have gotten probations, some people have gotten angry. Zero minds have been changed or stimulated It has made me think about how much violence is acceptable in the name of harm reduction. Both to me, personally, and in general/principle.
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Oct 30, 2023 22:04
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I also want to push back a little more on the framing of this as a "whether to vote for the lesser evil" which I actually think is disputable and does a grave disservice to the many policy achievements Dems have done that we've basically not seen since the 1940's or 1960's. It's not "New Deal" levels of transformative but that's maybe an excessively high standard before we allow ourselves to admit that maybe just maybe "Dems... Good?"
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Oct 30, 2023 23:25
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In a world where I need to be a reasonable adult who just accepts that both parties will commit genocide no matter what and will actively suppress the truth of that genocide? Yeah, Dems good  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 30, 2023 23:39
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Twincityhacker posted:The UAW negoatied a contract with Ford today, which makes the last one they were still negotating on. while talking up this victory, the uaw leadership has said the plan is now to use this massive win to lever open the non-union shops and focus on massively expanding membership. the goal is that next time around they won't be doing this with just the big three, but five or six of the major manufacturers this kind of rhetoric is really heartening. i have real hope that gone are the days of defensively trying to grasp on to whatever crumbs organized labor can hold onto
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Oct 30, 2023 23:45
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Raenir Salazar posted:it's not "New Deal" levels of transformative but that's maybe an excessively high standard before we allow ourselves to admit that maybe just maybe "Dems... Good?" Dems less bad
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Oct 30, 2023 23:50
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The Dems are alright.
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Oct 30, 2023 23:52
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They should unionize Tesla, if only because Musk would literally die of outrage
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Oct 30, 2023 23:52
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 30, 2023 23:53
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Raenir Salazar posted:I also want to push back a little more on the framing of this as a "whether to vote for the lesser evil" which I actually think is disputable and does a grave disservice to the many policy achievements Dems have done that we've basically not seen since the 1940's or 1960's. It's not "New Deal" levels of transformative but that's maybe an excessively high standard before we allow ourselves to admit that maybe just maybe "Dems... Good?" The banality of good men doing nothing
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Oct 30, 2023 23:55
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Eric Cantonese posted:I wouldn't be surprised if doing a spoiler run in 2024 is a condition for her getting said cushy job. Yeah, who are her donors? I’m guessing quite a few republicans and reactionary millionaires.
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Oct 30, 2023 23:58
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:The banality of good men doing nothing Pardon? Can you explain?
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Oct 31, 2023 00:00
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I AM GRANDO posted:Yeah, who are her donors? I’m guessing quite a few republicans and reactionary millionaires. Didn't the latest poll also have her spoiling the Republican candidate?
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Oct 31, 2023 00:00
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Raenir Salazar posted:Pardon? Can you explain? "The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" is a quite famous quote attributed to Burke I believe. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Oct 31, 2023 |
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Oct 31, 2023 00:02
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Josef bugman posted:"The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" is a quite famous quote from Brecht I believe. No poo poo, it's just not clear what his point is.
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Oct 31, 2023 00:04
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Josef bugman posted:"The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" is a quite famous quote attributed to Burke I believe. I'm pretty sure that wasn't my question, and very obviously so. "How does this relate to what is being said/argued?" WHO is doing nothing, what is the evidence that nothing is happening?
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Oct 31, 2023 00:06
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Personally think Douglas Adams has the better quote here:quote:“[Ford said] ".. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
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Oct 31, 2023 00:07
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Raenir Salazar posted:Pardon? Can you explain? That no, they were not in fact ... good. Doing nothing in the face of something evil, and doing so in a banal way through excuses and tacit approval is actually the opposite of good. I am directly speaking to the democratic party's ability to influence Israel or disavow its war crimes if it cannot be influenced. I hope that explains it. Retro42 posted:Personally think Douglas Adams has the better quote here:
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Oct 31, 2023 00:14
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haveblue posted:They should unionize Tesla, if only because Musk would literally die of outrage Good news, that just might be happening. https://twitter.com/josheidelson/status/1719071337480864186
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Oct 31, 2023 00:19
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smiling placidly to myself voting how Douglas Adams would want (not at all, in that example, I guess? idk) while my friends and family are deported by $RepublicanAdministration (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 31, 2023 00:22
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Raenir Salazar posted:I'm pretty sure that wasn't my question, and very obviously so. "How does this relate to what is being said/argued?" WHO is doing nothing, what is the evidence that nothing is happening? Pretty obvious that the contention is the Dems are doing nothing to rein in Israel.
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Oct 31, 2023 00:23
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What was the thinking behind the democrats letting Mike Johnson take the house speaker position? Did the democrats believe Johnson is going to be easier to work with or less of a threat?
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Oct 31, 2023 00:26
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As an aside, because Ms Adequate is getting it right and because she's like the only one, please people: reign != rein. This is almost as annoying as all the Isreals.
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Oct 31, 2023 00:26
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Tatsuta Age posted:smiling placidly to myself voting how Douglas Adams would want (not at all, in that example, I guess? idk) while my friends and family are deported by $RepublicanAdministration Feel like the solution prevented as the best one in the quote is "getting rid of the lizards" On the other topic: very heartening to see a few big labor wins in a row. The last couple of years have been really great for unions and I'm hoping we're primed for this to be just the beginning.
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Oct 31, 2023 00:26
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Retro42 posted:Personally think Douglas Adams has the better quote here: Alien Lizards would've absolutely have been an improvement under Trump but I'm not sure how this relates to anything. The analogy seems to me to break down here because to be more accurate to real life one of the lizard rulers (democratically elected it seems I might add) is actually doing something to fix human mistakes like climate change, student loans, and poverty, is funding new green energy and reversed damaging policies of the previous lizard while the other lizard actively wants to eat you. Also reptiles are objectively cool and cute, so another way this quote just doesn't seem very applicable, I'd absolutely vote for a lizard for office and use my lap for body heat whenever it goddamn wants AND it's going to invest in green energy!? Heck Yes! Loam! posted:That no, they were not in fact ... good. I think the point here is I'm broadly addressing the larger issue, which is how broadly speaking especially considering domestic politics but also broadly regarding foreign policy the Dems do a lot of good things; their policies regarding Israel with the current ongoing tragedy is at best incredibly disappointing but I think it says something that this is what you have to focus on to say that they aren't "good" for whatever that means and however its quantified. A nuanced and hollistic assessment should I think consider everything else, and also foreign policy regarding other issues, like the Kurds, or support for Ukraine, confronting China, and so on. If this is the only issue you care about and no other issue you do you, but I don't think its fair to dismiss that other people ultimately need to consider a wider range of policies and outcomes and when considering these other outcomes maybe they aren't actually bad; or maybe as I said earlier, sometimes politics is disappointingly messy and a lot of sucky awful things are going to happen, and there's a gap between ones ideals and ones reality. Ms Adequate posted:Pretty obvious that the contention is the Dems are doing nothing to rein in Israel. I don't agree that it was obvious since that wasn't what I was specifically addressing in my original post, which would mean that it's a bit of a non-sequitor to reply to me with that. Nix Panicus posted:What was the thinking behind the democrats letting Mike Johnson take the house speaker position? Did the democrats believe Johnson is going to be easier to work with or less of a threat? Did any Dems vote for him? If not then I don't think they "let" Johnson be the speaker.
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Oct 31, 2023 00:28
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Nix Panicus posted:What was the thinking behind the democrats letting Mike Johnson take the house speaker position? Did the democrats believe Johnson is going to be easier to work with or less of a threat? What exactly do you think the democrats did to "let" Johnson take the position?
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Oct 31, 2023 00:29
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Discendo Vox posted:What exactly do you think the democrats did to "let" Johnson take the position? It's a troll, come the gently caress on
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Oct 31, 2023 00:32
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Nix Panicus posted:What was the thinking behind the democrats letting Mike Johnson take the house speaker position? Did the democrats believe Johnson is going to be easier to work with or less of a threat? How did the Democrats let Johnson become Speaker? The only things they could have done differently to alter that result is vote for Kevin McCarthy (or Jim Jordan) to be speaker. And that would have been an unprecedented act I sincerely doubt we’d all be sitting around commending the Dems for doing. The Republicans removed McCarthy from office and elected Johnson the new speaker. Their dysfunction allowed a false narrative that it was somehow the Democrats doing this to take root directly from the Republicans.
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Oct 31, 2023 00:33
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Raenir Salazar posted:
They're enabling and encouraging genocide, this isn't some niche issue that you can just handwave away.
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Oct 31, 2023 00:35
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Blue Footed Booby posted:It's a troll, come the gently caress on Current moderation policy is that we must entertain trolls, and cannot acknowledge them as trolls. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 31, 2023 00:36
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Nix Panicus posted:What was the thinking behind the democrats letting Mike Johnson take the house speaker position? Did the democrats believe Johnson is going to be easier to work with or less of a threat? The Democrats uniformly voted for Jeffries every time it was put to the whole House. The Republicans made Johnson speaker all by themselves
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Oct 31, 2023 00:40
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