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https://www.svt.se/nyheter/snabbkollen/billstrom-forklarar-nedlagd-rost Billström claims we didn’t vote for it because it wasn’t made clear that Hanas are the bad guys. Totally sane priorities.
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Oct 28, 2023 12:33
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V. Illych L. posted:you're in NATO For what it's worth, our prime minister said (loosely translated) that "our vote was consistent. The resolution did not even mention Hamas, and therefore Finland opted not to vote for it".
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Oct 28, 2023 14:52
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Yeah supposedly a bunch of countries complained about that omission. It's a fair point imo but the resolution, any resolution needed to be pushed through. Even though the UN is kinda impotent in this regard
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Oct 28, 2023 15:03
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Rappaport posted:For what it's worth, our prime minister said (loosely translated) that "our vote was consistent. The resolution did not even mention Hamas, and therefore Finland opted not to vote for it". this blood is also on your hands now, this mealy-mouthed bullshit is an obvious pretext V. Illych L. fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Oct 28, 2023 |
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Oct 28, 2023 15:36
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I am literally translating a news article for you. I didn't vote for these idiots.
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Oct 28, 2023 16:37
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V. Illych L. posted:this blood is also on your hands now, this mealy-mouthed bullshit is an obvious pretext settle down
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Oct 28, 2023 17:06
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Rappaport posted:I am literally translating a news article for you. I didn't vote for these idiots. Translating is a form of explaining, and it's been long established that on this website, explaining something is the same as endorsing it. You're not getting out of this one.
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Oct 28, 2023 17:10
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Crespolini posted:Translating is a form of explaining, and it's been long established that on this website, explaining something is the same as endorsing it. You're not getting out of this one. Good point, I am had  I at least hope the food is nice at the Hague.
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Oct 28, 2023 17:12
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im sure this vote matters a lot and will change the course of history, as all un votes have
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Oct 28, 2023 17:25
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Beeswax posted:settle down nah Rappaport posted:I am literally translating a news article for you. I didn't vote for these idiots. transporting without comment means that other interlocutors must add the comment. to be clear, the "you" in question is the finnish state and government, not the individual finnish citizen except insofar as that citizen has direct influence over finnish foreign policy
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Oct 28, 2023 17:33
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V. Illych L. posted:transporting without comment means that other interlocutors must add the comment. to be clear, the "you" in question is the finnish state and government, not the individual finnish citizen except insofar as that citizen has direct influence over finnish foreign policy Alright, but the Finnish state doesn't have physical hands, so you can see how I took your comment otherwise. To the larger matter, Finland (and other states) have engaged in foreign policy moves that are questionable, so the blood on collective hands sort of dilutes if everyone everywhere in Europe are guilty of some poo poo or another. Which they are. So is it a meaningful critique at that point? Over a UN vote, not a military action even.
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Oct 28, 2023 17:38
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Rappaport posted:Alright, but the Finnish state doesn't have physical hands, so you can see how I took your comment otherwise. to the first point, i appreciate that this was not obvious - it's consistent with my positions elsewhere but it's not reasonable to expect people to know the Posting Record of individual forums posters, especially ones as relatively boring as myself. i accept a measure of criticism on this. however, i think that voting "yes" on a non-binding resolution saying "pls stop bombing your giant prison camp" is about the least that should be expected from our governments and that failure to do so is shameful. it will have limited material impact either way, but as ever with these votes it's a matter of signalling international attitudes on an issue and insisting that the "stop bombing the prison camp" resolution needs to specifically call out the organisation leading the insurrection that precipitated this round of bombings is nonsense. with regards to israel specifically, finland is now explicitly a part of the US-based geopolitical bloc, which has a long-standing tradition of abetting whatever stupid poo poo the israelis have wanted to get up to. the US has mostly taken the direct political brunt of this, but it really is on all of our countries to reckon with this support; israel, in important ways, is one of our projects. since what is important to the US is important to us (because NATO is unquestionably built around US military power) and israel and the US are so intimately involved geopolitically, there's a very real sense in which our consent allows israel to keep doing its thing. we may not have the power to outright deny the americans, but we do have the ability to impose some costs, at least in terms of prestige and credibility, for underwriting israel's actions. when finland had a posture of neutrality it could reasonably avoid taking stances on such issues and argue that it was necessary to avoid taking sides so as not to provoke anybody; this clearly no longer applies, however. to summarise: 1) what israel does is our problem because they're a part of the same broader geopolitical power bloc as us 2) this sort of vote is a minimal signal that we're willing to make a stink about the issue in question 3) habits of neutrality no longer apply 4) i don't think that calling out hamas is necessary in the context of telling israel to not kill a bunch of people that israel itself has penned up for over fifteen years
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Oct 28, 2023 17:52
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All valid points. But, as you say, protest voting at the UN is mostly a symbolic gesture and won't actually help anyone. There are back-room deals and talks, but to be honest I doubt Israel gives enough of a poo poo about Finland to listen to our diplomats, so here we are. I also somewhat disagree with your assessment of what Finnish neutrality actually historically meant in these terms, but that's probably too esoteric for this thread. Suffice to say, I agree with you that it was a silly, procedural excuse to vote that way, but if as you insist we are wedded to Israeli (US) interests, what other way could it have gone? The EU adopted a resolution condemning the violence and Finland agreed. As I said, I was repeating a report in our moon-language that no one in this thread can speak, to provide context. You have disagreed with their flimsy pretenses, and we can maybe move on.
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Oct 28, 2023 18:08
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Rappaport posted:All valid points. But, as you say, protest voting at the UN is mostly a symbolic gesture and won't actually help anyone. There are back-room deals and talks, but to be honest I doubt Israel gives enough of a poo poo about Finland to listen to our diplomats, so here we are. I would certainly take a symbolic gesture over cowardly silence.
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Oct 28, 2023 20:44
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The Danish Foreign Minister, one Lars Løkke Rasmussen, said pretty much the same thing. It incidentally also did not mention by name the Israeli government officials and military personnel who have so far murdered 3,000+ children in 3 weeks. Curious! That should be rectified immediately.
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Oct 29, 2023 02:16
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https://twitter.com/CPJesper/status/1718187053609861529 We have some serious intellectual heavyweights sitting in our government and polluting EU decisions.
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Oct 29, 2023 06:20
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Jack Trades posted:https://twitter.com/CPJesper/status/1718187053609861529  not only is the emperor naked, she's running around screaming "I HAVE NO CLOTHES! LOOK AT ME, I AM COMPLETELY NAKED!"E: here is the complete mess: https://www.svd.se/a/wAVRkM/eu-s-chat-control-massovervakning-eller-trygghetsatgard
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Oct 29, 2023 07:38
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Seriously, what's with Swedish politicians and going some variant of "it's illegal to do crimes"?
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Oct 29, 2023 08:03
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Jack Trades posted:https://twitter.com/CPJesper/status/1718187053609861529 "CPJesper" Post/username
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Oct 29, 2023 08:09
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Wait, no. My idiot inner teenager took over the brain for a second. My bad. Regardless of CP is supposed to be in Swedish or English it's inappropriate. Potrzebie fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Oct 29, 2023 |
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Oct 29, 2023 08:14
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Nice piece of fish posted:"CPJesper" I have no idea who that is. I found the Tweet somewhere else.
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Oct 29, 2023 08:21
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Jack Trades posted:I have no idea who that is. I found the Tweet somewhere else. His Wikipedia page is illuminating. quote:Sandström identifierar sig som libertarian[14] och gör sedan februari 2022 regelbundna videokrönikor på Youtube, för den marknadsliberala tankesmedjan Timbro
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Oct 29, 2023 08:28
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Potrzebie posted:His Wikipedia page is illuminating. Ew. I'm hardly a fan of the loving Timbro assholes but I suppose even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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Oct 29, 2023 08:31
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Jack Trades posted:Seriously, what's with Swedish politicians and going some variant of "it's illegal to do crimes"? Didn't Denmark also do that with biker gangs? Crims are illegal! 
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Oct 29, 2023 08:56
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Fruits of the sea posted:Didn't Denmark also do that with biker gangs? Crims are illegal! Actually not. One of the gangs was banned, but the biker gangs are still allowed to operate
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Oct 29, 2023 10:36
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thotsky posted:lol that Turkey voted yes and Sweden did not
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Oct 29, 2023 11:11
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evil_bunnY posted:Too few kurds in palestine Just give Gaza to the Kurds. Bing bong, all problems solved forever!
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Oct 29, 2023 14:33
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Actually, I think "very few" is close to the perfect amount of Kurds for Erdogan
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Oct 29, 2023 17:15
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I feel the same way about Chat Control as I do about bitcoin. “No, it can’t work that way, surely you’re explaining it to me wrong” I’m less shocked about Johanssons inability to understand how technology works and more concerned that people are seemingly going along with how she thinks image detection works. That and the subtle as a brick to the face lobbyism.
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Oct 29, 2023 18:17
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it is extremely worrisome that we have a minister of finance who openly disagrees with more restrictions on how much we can, and should, spend from our sovereign fund, and openly disagrees with the entire point of this fund to begin with! quote:– En del ledere for ungdomspartiene har tatt til orde for at handlingsregelen burde vært satt ned fra 3 prosent til 2 prosent. Vil ikke det ha vært fornuftig når fondet er blitt så stort? source
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Oct 30, 2023 14:59
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not even the progress party was this brazen about it
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Oct 30, 2023 14:59
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Jesus... Who the gently caress thought it was a good idea to give a man who can't do 2+2 without lying the finance minister post? 
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Oct 30, 2023 15:51
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Actually saw the guy at work the other day. Even looks like an rear end in a top hat up close.
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Oct 30, 2023 16:55
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ulvir posted:it is extremely worrisome that we have a minister of finance who openly disagrees with more restrictions on how much we can, and should, spend from our sovereign fund, and openly disagrees with the entire point of this fund to begin with! i don't think that overly expansive fiscal policy is the reason why we're in the situation we're in atm and i also don't think you can reasonably say that we're suffering from dutch disease. his rhetoric here is completely vacuous, but it's not obvious to me that decreasing public expenditure is of immediate vital importance
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Oct 30, 2023 19:15
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I just find his response in that quote, as it stands, to be incredibly irresponsible in a way no other minister of finance has been before.
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Oct 30, 2023 19:59
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yeah, vedum's brand of "oh-shucks" gladhanding is deeply irritating to me as well. it's transparently insincere, and journalists who were perfectly capable of seeing through it let him get away with murder because they thought that the rubes loved him unconditionally. it is also very irritating to me that the article doesn't explain why this professor thinks only a 1,5% rate is likely to be sustainable in the long term - unless they're suggesting that returns on the global stock market is likely to grow by less than two percent per annum for an extended period of time without it causing a bona fide crisis of capitalism
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Oct 30, 2023 21:49
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It is however an incredibly bad sign that oil and gas companies pay an ever increasing total percentage of all corporate tax year after year. And that we are losing one sucessful private enterprise after another to foreign interests. The closer we get to the end date of our oil and gas sector the less prepared we become. But i agree that just cutting taxes and welfare will just lead us to where Britain is now, things falling apart and an explosion of obvious Dickensian need. But no new businesses or decent jobs or really anything being improved. We cant go on has we, so what can we do? We can`t go full Juche even as a joke, we`ll starve to death in three months.
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Oct 31, 2023 16:25
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Baudolino posted:It is however an incredibly bad sign that oil and gas companies pay an ever increasing total percentage of all corporate tax year after year. And that we are losing one sucessful private enterprise after another to foreign interests. The closer we get to the end date of our oil and gas sector the less prepared we become. So you never solved Dutch Disease - you’re just implementing it slowly?
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Oct 31, 2023 16:47
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah, vedum's brand of "oh-shucks" gladhanding is deeply irritating to me as well. it's transparently insincere, and journalists who were perfectly capable of seeing through it let him get away with murder because they thought that the rubes loved him unconditionally. He's such a vile dipshit, when you start boiling it down. V. Illych L. posted:it is also very irritating to me that the article doesn't explain why this professor thinks only a 1,5% rate is likely to be sustainable in the long term - unless they're suggesting that returns on the global stock market is likely to grow by less than two percent per annum for an extended period of time without it causing a bona fide crisis of capitalism I'd really like to know this, too. Owling Howl posted:So you never solved Dutch Disease - you’re just implementing it slowly? Correct! And we're doing it in the dumbest possible way, too.
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Oct 31, 2023 17:08
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Baudolino posted:It is however an incredibly bad sign that oil and gas companies pay an ever increasing total percentage of all corporate tax year after year. And that we are losing one sucessful private enterprise after another to foreign interests. The closer we get to the end date of our oil and gas sector the less prepared we become. With a population growth of 0,6% and an increase of businesses that survive over 5 years are around 1,5% I'll say that it's not that hard to start a business here. So the decrease of corporate taxes as a part of our income is the main driver What we do need to do is renationalize crucial infrastructure and provide good jobs there - railways and energy infrastructure are two very good examples of this. If you run a business and you have 13 times your annual budget on hand you start investing. Most other western countries provide relatively equal services as us - but manage to do it without an enormous slush fund If we want to create good opportunities for businesses we need to provide some sort of competitive advantage, and gutting workers rights or race to the bottom with taxes are short sighted. What we can do is to ensure that the infrastructure is world class, that our work force is well educated, motivated and effective. Take Aker Verdal who builds multiple jackets for oil platforms internationally, and that's because Norwegian workers in general work more effectively and to a higher quality thanks to our relatively good education and working conditions Note: I'm not a macro economist, so even if I'm very interested in macro, I've only had time and money to take a bachelor degree in economics - so I can't model the effects
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