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I don't know how well SE and IR3 work together. They both modify the game in VERY different ways. SE works mainly with Krasstorio 2 and Industrial Revolution works with...itself. As an aside, I'm absolutely in love with the Heavy Roller in IR3. Just a tank with no gun that plows through everything: immediately inserting the logs from any trees you crushed into its inventory. I realized I could shove a bunch of steam roboports in it and have been using it to just clear terrain as I set up my initial rail network. Doing this let me find rubber wood by complete accident since it looks so much like some of the alien biome trees.
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Oct 28, 2023 22:00
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Drone_Fragger posted:Logistics groups seem interesting but I can't help feel if they integrated logistics train network into the game (which they clearly should) It would be unnecessary. They would be incredibly useful even with LTN built in. They serve different needs entirely.
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Oct 28, 2023 22:03
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Qubee posted:Trust a bunch of Factorio nerds to give thoroughly detailed and well thought out posts on my question. Thanks a bunch everyone. I think I will bootstrap a new base a few screens away from my main base in my existing save, just because I like going to old setups and having flashbacks of when I was actually sitting there coming up with the design. In the 7 years since I last played the main save, will there be things not included in my save, like map generation stuff? Or is it fine. I'm curious if it'll even load a save that old. I don't think there are new resources, if you're already using nuclear. And I think it generates new chunks on the fly anyway, so if you drive far enough away, it would generate new chunks based on the new map gen. SE + IR3 right out of the gate sounds like trying to find your kneecaps with a sledgehammer. And I don't think they're particularly compatible. Maybe try Freight Forwarding or 248k next? Drone_Fragger posted:Logistics groups seem interesting but I can't help feel if they integrated logistics train network into the game (which they clearly should) It would be unnecessary. I think built-in LTN would be a step too far, especially since not everyone wants to use the LTN model. (I like TSM, myself, and there are others I haven't tried yet.) You can get 90% of the way there with train limits, and doing more complex/large-scale circuit stuff gets you even further. I'd really appreciate having automated refueling in the base game tho!
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Oct 29, 2023 02:55
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did they even have purple/yellow science in 2016?
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Oct 29, 2023 04:15
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I've been slowly working my way through getting my base up to 60spm, and currently dealing with scaling oil - am I misreading factoriolab or do I really need 24 unmoduled refineries or 9 with full speed 3s??? Also if theres a better calculator for this stuff please lmk, it'd be nice if material flows were a little easier to visualize but its been mega helpful so far.
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Oct 29, 2023 05:10
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meowmeowmeowmeow posted:I've been slowly working my way through getting my base up to 60spm, and currently dealing with scaling oil - am I misreading factoriolab or do I really need 24 unmoduled refineries or 9 with full speed 3s??? I use Helmod in-game to do planning and once I got a hang of the ui it's pretty useful for this kinda stuff. Especially on my current space block run, where each science has its own platform where it generates everything from raw. Yellow and White science might kill me though.
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Oct 29, 2023 05:20
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That sounds like it might be using basic oil, first thing you want to do with blue science is almost always researching advanced oil processing.
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Oct 29, 2023 05:24
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DocJade hurt himself for our amusement again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Kvi4JPUsak
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Oct 29, 2023 05:43
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Xerol posted:That sounds like it might be using basic oil, first thing you want to do with blue science is almost always researching advanced oil processing. No, factoriolab does advanced oil by default, and you really do need that much gas. (60 spm = 802 red circuits/min = 1604 plastic/min = 16,040 petro gas/min = ~14 refineries with full cracking, and you still need even more gas for LDSs and sulfur.) I think most people (including myself) think of the oil pipeline as "crude oil -> petro gas and some other stuff", which is valid because you mostly just need gas. factoriolab presents it as crude oil -> heavy oil, heavy oil -> light oil and light oil -> petro gas, because heavy oil gets cracked down into the other oils and the simplex solver needs some variable to focus on. I think my 1kspm base ended up with something like 54 refineries? I don't quite recall now. It was a lot.
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Oct 29, 2023 05:53
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For some reason I thought this was just for blue science, which only needs a smidge over 4 refineries on basic processing for 60/min. I usually design the starter base around 120/min and the standard 8-2-7 cracking setup feeds into early lategame just fine (with prod 1s in a lot of the expensive recipes two of these setups gets me up to the end of non-space science just fine).
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Oct 29, 2023 06:13
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Yeah, fair enough! I guessed they were doing all sciences at 60 SPM and used factoriolab to double check.
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Oct 29, 2023 06:21
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Solumin posted:I think built-in LTN would be a step too far, especially since not everyone wants to use the LTN model. (I like TSM, myself, and there are others I haven't tried yet.) You can get 90% of the way there with train limits, and doing more complex/large-scale circuit stuff gets you even further. LTN is what I used but I can't really advocate for one or the other. I liked being able to drop 20 new trains into the network and have it go. It was more complicated than it should be, since it's a mod, so hopefully whatever they add in isn't as heavy on using circuits. With raised rails allowing for fewer bottlenecks and longer games potentially meaning way more trains (even before going way past the intended loop into a megabase) having more circuit homework to do wouldn't be fun.
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Oct 29, 2023 07:05
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Yeah I'm getting my starter base up to doing 60spm of all but military, currently only got prod3 in the silo and now speed3s in the refineries to get numbers low enough for them to fit in their spot in my current layout without tearing up big chunks. Just going through one science and base resources at a time, bumping up to assembler 3s and blue belts as needed according to factorio labs. It's kinda annoying, I thought I was putting in assemblers to 60spm but didn't realize assembler3s are 1.25 speed not 1 so I'm having to prune things and also realizing I hosed up ratios in some spots, but it's been fun. Did start stockpiling blue belts early enough or in large enough numbers so it's kinda slow going but we're getting there.
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Oct 29, 2023 07:15
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You'll get better results by reducing downstream demand by putting prods in your main oil consumers (mostly plastic but iirc sulfur/acid takes up a surprising amount too). But the main things to generally prioritize for productivity after the silo are your labs, followed by the yellow and purple pack assemblers, and after that you'll probably want to save up to do a beaconed/moduled green chip build. Re: machine speed, I design for my first target SPM on blue assembler speed, then I just get a free(ish) 66% bonus when I upgrade to yellow. e: I looked it up on the cheat sheet and the quickest payoffs for productivity modules are (in order) the silo, labs, yellow science, purple science, acid, blue chips, and green chips. Plastics and sulfur don't even show up in the top 10.
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Oct 29, 2023 07:53
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Right, because prod mods get better the higher up the chain you go. Prod mods in plastic gets you very little compared to prod mods in, say, low density structures. I don't entirely agree with the cheat sheet's order, because they're only looking at the time it takes for the production modules to pay for themselves. In my 1kspm base, I ended up with full prod mods in green, red, and blue circuits; blue, purple, and yellow science; RCUs, LDSs and the silos themselves. My main goal was reducing the number of plates needed, because most of my congestion came from ore and plate trains. Prod Mod 3s in the red circuit factories alone were worth 8 blue belts of copper plate per minute. Mailer posted:LTN is what I used but I can't really advocate for one or the other. I liked being able to drop 20 new trains into the network and have it go. It was more complicated than it should be, since it's a mod, so hopefully whatever they add in isn't as heavy on using circuits. With raised rails allowing for fewer bottlenecks and longer games potentially meaning way more trains (even before going way past the intended loop into a megabase) having more circuit homework to do wouldn't be fun. Have you used Cybersyn or Train Control Signals at all? I'm curious about how those work. You make a very good point about train complexity, and I wonder how they're going to handle it. The space platform FFF said platforms also have train schedules!
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Oct 29, 2023 08:40
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meowmeowmeowmeow posted:I've been slowly working my way through getting my base up to 60spm, and currently dealing with scaling oil - am I misreading factoriolab or do I really need 24 unmoduled refineries or 9 with full speed 3s??? For calculators, I don't really do any planning in Helmod or online planners, I just use a mod called "Max Rate Calculator" inside the game. You can setup your oil, put all the recipes in the refineries and chemplants and then hit the hotkey for max rate calculator, use the mouse to highlight the entire setup, and the mod will spit out the exact inputs and outputs of everything highlighted. That way you don't have to figure out each individual section and add them up, the mod does it all for you and tells you that it will have inputs of crude oil, heavy oil, light oil (because of your cracking) with outputs of those also plus petroleum gas. This is also helpful for making sure you have enough cracking as you can see how much heavy and light oil you are producing and verify that your input side of the cracking stacks have enough capacity to process all of it.
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Oct 29, 2023 11:12
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Solumin posted:Have you used Cybersyn or Train Control Signals at all? I'm curious about how those work. Never touched anything outside LTN, and that was in a (by the end) something like 150-train base across liquid and cargo trains. It's janky and inefficient (and probably superseded by other mods) but it's probably the simplest one to rig up. If you just want to schedule a producer/consumer train setup with a very quick tutorial and no complex logic then LTN still works.
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Oct 29, 2023 14:19
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Ltn is probably the closest to logistics bot logic, you set demands at a station and the network looks for stations that provides that and then dispatches a train from a depot to move a to b. In that regard I personally prefer it though if I do another run soon I may run one of the train mods.
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Oct 29, 2023 16:57
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KillHour posted:DocJade hurt himself for our amusement again Holy poo poo this was amazing.
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Oct 29, 2023 18:18
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LTN and TSM are good for different things, and while I haven't seen anyone actually do that, you could use both in the same game. LTN turns trains into logistic bots: You define a depot, where the trains wait until they get something to do (=Roboport), stations that make their items available for pickup (= provider chest) and stations that need some items (=requester chests) and if there is an open request that is big enough to make sending a train worth it, LTN will pick an idle train and schedule that movement. This is good if you want a small number of trains to handle a lot of different low throughput transports, but it's not that great for e.g. supplying your smelters with ores, because LTN movements always need to go Depot-->Provider-->Requester-->Depot with no way to skip the depot step. TSM is good for bulk transports like ore: You assign stations that supply e.g. iron ore, stations that need iron ore, stations where trains can wait before loading (optional) and stations where trains can wait before unloading (optional). Then you assign the desired number of trains to iron ore and TSM handles moving the trains around. And all of those trains will forever be assigned to iron ore, so it's not great for the types of tasks LTN is good at because you need at least one dedicated train per resource, but it's better for bulk transport where you need to move enough of a resource that you always need to have one or more trains active. The other thing TSM does that you can't easily replicate with vanilla trains is this: if a train is low on fuel, TSM will force it to go to a refueling station instead, so you can have one dedicated refueling spot instead of having to worry about getting fuel to either the pickup or drop-off stations.
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Oct 29, 2023 18:55
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KariOhki posted:Holy poo poo this was amazing. The first block design was novel and not the worst, but the big red belt base one was so bad, it was 8 belts wide with only regular assemblers pulling from the closest belt, it was leaving 6 of the belts untouched at all times. Splitters mixed it up, sure, but well over 75% of the contents of the base were inaccessible at any given time.
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Oct 29, 2023 19:02
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EVGA Longoria posted:The first block design was novel and not the worst, but the big red belt base one was so bad, it was 8 belts wide with only regular assemblers pulling from the closest belt, it was leaving 6 of the belts untouched at all times. Splitters mixed it up, sure, but well over 75% of the contents of the base were inaccessible at any given time. Not only that, his logic for filling the belts was in absolute units. Not anything that scales with amount of sushi space. Additionally, the more different items he added the less dense each of them became. At least he recognized adding barrels made it 4x worse haha.
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Oct 29, 2023 19:27
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Not only that, his logic for filling the belts was in absolute units. Not anything that scales with amount of sushi space. Additionally, the more different items he added the less dense each of them became. At least he recognized adding barrels made it 4x worse haha. He also put all the same recipes together in groups, so they were competing with each other for ingredients.
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Oct 29, 2023 20:08
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Tamba posted:LTN and TSM are good for different things, and while I haven't seen anyone actually do that, you could use both in the same game. LTN can easily support the large volume needs like smelters, you just have to make sure there is a stacker that can handle x number of trains at the drop-off point, and set the requester levels (or trains assigned or something, it's been a while) high enough that LTN is dispatching lots of trains to that requested resource. I built a fairly large base doing the maximum rocket launch rate using LTN like that and using nothing but 1-1 trains and it worked fine but had hundreds of little trains zipping everywhere all the time.
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Oct 29, 2023 20:14
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The Locator posted:For calculators, I don't really do any planning in Helmod or online planners, I just use a mod called "Max Rate Calculator" inside the game. You can setup your oil, put all the recipes in the refineries and chemplants and then hit the hotkey for max rate calculator, use the mouse to highlight the entire setup, and the mod will spit out the exact inputs and outputs of everything highlighted. That way you don't have to figure out each individual section and add them up, the mod does it all for you and tells you that it will have inputs of crude oil, heavy oil, light oil (because of your cracking) with outputs of those also plus petroleum gas. I'll give that a shot, sounds helpful to see what each section is producing and if im feeding it enough but having an idea of overall consumption has been super helpful as far as x belts of y etc
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Oct 29, 2023 20:30
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cybersyn looks really promising as like ltn but better, i have it in a game but haven't gotten to actually setting it up yet
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Oct 29, 2023 20:32
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Tamba posted:LTN and TSM are good for different things, and while I haven't seen anyone actually do that, you could use both in the same game. Having used TSM, I really feel that train limits can do most of what that mod does. The two winning features are automatic refueling and being able to prioritize requests. For example, I set up my megabase's oil processing as a train-based village, and LTN let me ensure that lube and rocket fuel were prioritized over cracking.
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Oct 29, 2023 21:10
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Hey nerds I just barfed and found this on the floor. Is this a good factorio base for SEK2? I think i might spend a few more years on it (500h so far, no deliberate idling, but some) then print out a giant professional poster on my IRL wall (not married). This is a screenshot of the original image which is 16k by 16k and 450mb png (/screenshot [x pixels, i.e 1920] [y] [zoom factor relative to 1] ). I have a real question regarding the iridite processing in the far bottom right https://imgur.com/a/jhehtoo I have finally increased the input of raw iridite ore rockets and now the input is full on stage two. Stage 1 is basically cut off at the bottom of this screenshot, it is functioning fine and sends the unlimited crushed iridite into two stage 2, chemical plants, converting the crushed iridite into iridium powder. SEK2 brings to us the OPPORTUNITY to OVERCOME many new INTERESTING ways to do basically kovarex enrichment, where the output is part of the input, and so you either route it back in properly or are a failure. (Its not BAD, its not a horrible chore, its fun YAY!!!! because we are playing this on purpose and not because anyone is forcing us to) Anyway I hosed it up and the crushed iridite in stage 2 is now deadlocked because there is too much input. Of course I could put a circuit buncha poo poo all some where, but instead, i want a perfect geometry tesseract converyor belt design. Not a blueprint though, blueprints from the internet are not allowed in my house. It's basically impossible to actually help me. Anyway thanks for playing factorio and being weird nerds. https://imgur.com/a/lQy2qm9 Are you a smart enough dude to make people think you are actually stupid? I am sorry that my imgur links did not work Cool Bear fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Oct 30, 2023 |
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Oct 30, 2023 06:11
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you listen to me, tech support employee, i have over 100k redstone pyro liquid saved up and if it goes below 100k, then i will begin panicking. this is not the sound of me panicking right now
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Oct 30, 2023 06:42
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storage of pyrolux is down to 90k... its never supposed to be below 100k... its fine, im almost done with this...
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Oct 30, 2023 06:57
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alright *laughing* something is confused here, if my pyrolux is at .. 80k... then.. *face turns white* https://www.di.fm/dubtechno Cool Bear fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Oct 30, 2023 |
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Oct 30, 2023 07:18
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https://imgur.com/a/hILrh2q OH! welcome to all the new players. I want you to know,... ... that there are so many things that we can show you
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Oct 30, 2023 08:11
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Solumin posted:Have you used Cybersyn or Train Control Signals at all? I'm curious about how those work. I've been using cybersyn in my sek2 playthrough and it really feels like a better LTN once you figure things out and they stabilize the management gui(I haven't been using it outside of some debugging since its still labeled as experimental ). The only issue I have had is delivering rocket fuel. For some reason it wasn't sending out a request for delivery if the requested amount was under 2k but not sending out any error messages like it usually does if there is a problem. After turning on the GUI I figured this out and tried increasing the request size, this worked but it errored out saying no trains could service the request since my 1-2 trains could only hold 1200. Setting the request threshold to 1200 fixed the issue, but it took a while to figure out that it would. Trains not needing to return to a depot to get a new order is definitely my favorite upgrade over ltn. It lets you keep your depot's way out of the way and plop trains down whenever you want without worrying about your depot's backing up.
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Oct 30, 2023 08:36
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I've been playing after being gone for 5 years and have tried to not use others blueprints to do things beyond smelting and green chips because those are boring and obvious. I wound up spending a ton of time trying to build the most compact purple science blueprint I could and have learned just like real coding that too much optimization just isn't worth it. I now know to just come up with the logical chunks of things I need to make, make each chunk in an ergonomic way, and then get them reasonably together. I've also learned that not only is too much belt weaving and reuse hard to manage, it can also screw up throughout if you wind up needing to rely on long reach inserters for high volume input. I've got to pay attention to number of items as well as type. My rails need to get redone in order to get stone in fast enough now.
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Nov 1, 2023 19:50
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Unlike coding, Factorio is a game so the correct level of optimization is "as much as you think is fun"
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Nov 1, 2023 20:18
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KillHour posted:Unlike coding, Factorio is a game so the correct level of optimization is "as much as you think is fun" Yeah and it is a fun exercise but I still should only do it *after* I've made a reasonable baseline.
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Nov 1, 2023 20:48
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Chin Strap posted:I've been playing after being gone for 5 years and have tried to not use others blueprints to do things beyond smelting and green chips because those are boring and obvious. I wound up spending a ton of time trying to build the most compact purple science blueprint I could and have learned just like real coding that too much optimization just isn't worth it. I now know to just come up with the logical chunks of things I need to make, make each chunk in an ergonomic way, and then get them reasonably together. Belt weaving also sucks a whole lot down the road when you forget you did it and do a mass robot-powered belt upgrade on your entire base and it completely breaks your build. No, of course I've never done this, why do you ask?
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Nov 1, 2023 20:50
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The Locator posted:Belt weaving also sucks a whole lot down the road when you forget you did it and do a mass robot-powered belt upgrade on your entire base and it completely breaks your build. No, of course I've never done this, why do you ask? If you always do higher tier first you are safe right? Like red to blue before yellow to red?
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Nov 1, 2023 21:02
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Chin Strap posted:If you always do higher tier first you are safe right? Like red to blue before yellow to red? That would require forethought and planning. Edit: And remembering that you had done the belt weaving in the first place!
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Nov 1, 2023 22:01
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I took the time to rearrange it so that nothing is weaved and nothing that is high throughput is inserted or taken on underground entrances or exits. Is that still a problem or did they fix that? I've noticed that using undergrounds for compression has changed since last I played. What about inserters and corners? Still inefficient? Can't believe I have spent probably 6 hours just optimizing purple science but it was a good exercise. The blueprint laboratory mod made it much nicer to tinker with.
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Nov 2, 2023 03:26
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