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A general lack of a sense of common community is kind of a step up from Italy's long history of bitter local and regional rivalries. Although Florida definitely doesn't have like an exclusive culture or identity to it as a whole (few states really do), it's just a part of the overall culture of America as a whole, and it would be socially disastrous for Florida to be isolated from the rest of America, but you could hypothetically redraw the state borders any number of ways.
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Nov 1, 2023 20:28
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They're also unified by loving RepublicansMustang posted:I don't know about that. I spent my teens through college years in Florida, and the overwhelming majority of people are from somewhere else. Interesting post. It does make sense, when you've had non-stop massive population growth for all of your existence, mainly due to migration from other US states and countries, there's no opportunity or time for it all to coalesce into a cohesive state culture and identity. 
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Nov 1, 2023 20:47
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New York has also historically had a lot of growth from outsiders and still managed a good local identity or five. It's also about the kind of immigrants you get, and I think suburbanites and rich old people are probably the least likely to actually interact with the existing residents, so Florida is uniquely bad for getting a unified identity not based on guys doing meth. Compare to people stepping off the boat in New York with nothing, they kinda have to interact to find work and company and so forth. Also it's a city and not a car based hellscape.
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Nov 1, 2023 21:24
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BonHair posted:New York has also historically had a lot of growth from outsiders and still managed a good local identity or five. It's also about the kind of immigrants you get, and I think suburbanites and rich old people are probably the least likely to actually interact with the existing residents, so Florida is uniquely bad for getting a unified identity not based on guys doing meth. Compare to people stepping off the boat in New York with nothing, they kinda have to interact to find work and company and so forth. Also it's a city and not a car based hellscape. new yorkers are united in thinking new york is the most unique and special place in the whole world and talking up the stuff they have that every other metropolis also has
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Nov 1, 2023 21:47
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Have u heard about convenience stores though? Pretty wild stuff up there
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Nov 1, 2023 21:48
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Didn’t they recently invent the dumpster?
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Nov 1, 2023 21:51
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Wendover had a neat video on the development of Florida. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIqxfBhlwx0 Basically the state for a long time couldn't be developed much because it was mostly swamps and needed a lot of technology to become livable and pleasant (much like Arizona more recently). Even for farmers trying to take advantage of the climate for tropical crops, it doesn't have good rivers for transporting their product. When the technology did hit, there was a huge explosion of development that was mostly driven by investors who often would buy and sell sight unseen, but would still have to engineer elaborate premises for extra attention. Phlegmish posted:They're also unified by loving Republicans Not really. The state's been fairly equally split for a while. Registered Republicans only outpaced registered registered democrats in 2021. Local governments of cities of decent size (as usual) are overwhelmingly controlled by Democrats. There's a reason why national election coverage kept treating Florida as a swing state even though it kept going for Republicans every time for twenty years. As I understand it, the main reason the state itself ends up solidly under Republican control is that the state Democrat party is really exceptionally incompetent, and I've never really understood the full story behind that. Something about the party being dominated by old retirees who don't give a poo poo. DeSantis's current administration seems to be more extreme than previous ones, since instead of just being corrupt and filling his pockets, DeSantis is really absurdly focused on "winning" national politics, and even though he doesn't seem to be getting anywhere on the national stage, he has somehow gained a lot more control, and has even been stomping over Florida's long tradition of governmental transparency that was part of where the whole "Florida Man" thing came from. BonHair posted:New York has also historically had a lot of growth from outsiders and still managed a good local identity or five. It's also about the kind of immigrants you get, and I think suburbanites and rich old people are probably the least likely to actually interact with the existing residents, so Florida is uniquely bad for getting a unified identity not based on guys doing meth. Compare to people stepping off the boat in New York with nothing, they kinda have to interact to find work and company and so forth. Also it's a city and not a car based hellscape. New York state has fairly stable population growth over a much larger timespan. New York City has one major population explosion at the turn of the 20th century, and then population growth has been way down for the past 80 years. The fact that there are still surviving regional culture differences within the city is less because of the mythologized idea of the immigrants being poor and coming over with nothing (most immigrants tend to be middle class, especially in those days), but because since they were immigrants from abroad instead of from across America, building up your own little enclaves of your own people that can all speak the same language instead of having to try using English. This does also happen to a degree across the country, but I'm not really sure of the mechanics of forming like an immigrant colony that far from their point of entry to the country.
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Nov 1, 2023 21:54
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Mister Olympus posted:new yorkers are united in thinking new york is the most unique and special place in the whole world and talking up the stuff they have that every other metropolis also has yea, this has been happening for decades now, but it really accelerated during the pandemic. back when i moved there in 02, each place you went had way more character, therefore each neighborhood had way more character, therefore each borough had way more character, therefore the entire place had way more character. most things felt individual. noncorporate, at the very least. but, at the same time, you still knew it wasn't the nyc of old. you knew it had gotten a little less nycish or whatever. locals, old and young, complained about how things were different and blah blah blah. a story as old as time. but it was still decent and you had a good chance of running into something fun and unique every night. but over the 2 decades i was there a lot of the characterful places i knew got priced out or unloved because everyone who moved in wanted something more convenient and/or familiar to them. a lot of the fun bars died because of rent. venues and galleries mostly migrated from manhattan to brooklyn. hell, manhattan is basically 50% walgreens/rite-aid and/or a chase bank. pretty much all the new restaurants were in no way local or unique to the area. they're all designed by ohio state mba who'd fallen in love with edison lights, the same awful wooden bar, the industrial look. food is bland. basically, everything was trying to get a grade of B. something you couldn't hate, but something you couldn't love, but something that would consistently make money. and god it loving sucked. then the pandemic happened and pretty much anything worthwhile that had remotely made it through the pre-pandemic erosion got killed. any of the fun bars. the old restaurants...pretty much gone. the artists, the actual artists and musicians who aren't loaded to begin with, got priced out of every borough/town within an hour of the city and all left for somewhere they could even remotely think about doing their art. and what replaced all that? more loving chase atms and walgreens. oh, and whole foods. and lululemon. sprinkle some tasteless thai or french or mexican brunch places there while you're at it. all this is to say you are 100% right, and whatever nyc-ness made nyc nyc is gone and it is basically just an immensely expensive, more annoying, funless generic place. basically, dallas. abelwingnut fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Nov 1, 2023 |
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Nov 1, 2023 22:16
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SlothfulCobra posted:
chicago neighborhoods today frequently have a distinct ethnic identity, it's much closer to the old style early 20th century patchwork of immigrants still. some of them--the polish neighborhoods for example--have been how they are for multiple generations through a deliberate effort to preserve the place as somewhere for polish speakers. others are long-standing but not generations old. some, like chinatown, have moved since their initial creation but also expanded and changed in economic character even as they remained ethnically the same. chicago's chinatown today is still majority chinese, and has expanded into what were formerly irish neighborhoods that long since assimilated. but most of the chinese people there have roots in the mainland rather than taiwan, a big change from its mid-century self. i bet people have done dissertations on this, how many new immigrants you need in a city for a certain neighborhood to maintain a separate identity
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Nov 1, 2023 22:44
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Mister Olympus posted:new yorkers are united in thinking new york is the most unique and special place in the whole world and talking up the stuff they have that every other metropolis also has Americans: Everyone else
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Nov 1, 2023 22:45
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A Buttery Pastry posted:New Yorkers : Americans the inverse of this applies to texas. texans are to the rest of the US how the US is seen from outside
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Nov 1, 2023 22:47
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for however sad applebees and strip malls are in the US i'm always horrified hearing about those pub chains in the UK that take over 300-year-old establishments
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Nov 1, 2023 22:54
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abelwingnut posted:all this is to say you are 100% right, and whatever nyc-ness made nyc nyc is gone and it is basically just an immensely expensive, more annoying, funless generic place. basically, dallas. Ow. Painful truth out of nowhere, you could at least have warned a body. Christ, I gotta get out of North Texas.
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Nov 1, 2023 23:53
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abelwingnut posted:yea, this has been happening for decades now, but it really accelerated during the pandemic. Settle down, James Murphy. You already said all this poo poo in 2005.
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Nov 2, 2023 01:38
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New York state and city had their population growth start to flatten out in the 40s, while Texas population growth has still been fairly steady even today. I feel like when my family moved here everybody else I knew was also not from around here (although internal migrants from inside Texas kinda balanced some things). 20.1% growth in 2010, 15.9% growth in 2020, as opposed to New York state growth being at 2.1% and 4.2%. City growth I think would be harder to track from the fact that commuting pushes a lot of growth outside of the boroughs. However, Texas does have something else to give it at least the impression of a culture that Florida doesn't (aside from just having a higher overall population earlier on to provide an anchor for future growth), and that's romanticism or mythology. There wasn't just a pre-existing population to anchor future growth into something that they could integrate with, there was and still is an image that people have of what Texas supposedly is and what they expect to see there. First off there's all the western stuff, that even contemporaneously in the 19th century was being exaggerated and romanticized in dime novels, cowboys and stuff. Then there's an interesting history that people like romanticizing, people wanna remember the Alamo and the idea of boldly winning independence, but they don't want to remember the Seminole Wars where the native peoples of Florida were steadily removed so that decades later Florida could form (they also don't want to remember the Comanche wars, so that quietly doesn't get mentioned in pop texas history). Around the 50s, Texas had another economic boom from oil that got cemented in pop culture (possibly with the assistance of proximity to all the media based in California) and there are Texan character archetypes based on that. And then politically we've had one Texan president and two faux-Texan presidents who weren't from Texas, but made it into a big part of their personal brands. All this feeds into an idea that people have about what Texas should be even if they haven't met any Texans, and it makes immigrants have an idea of what they should try to be like if they come to Texas, how they should change their behavior, or maybe that they should keep their heads down if they don't fit the image. Some people even fall really in love with the image of Texas and dress up in costume to signify their conversion.
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Nov 2, 2023 02:01
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Mister Olympus posted:chicago neighborhoods today frequently have a distinct ethnic identity, it's much closer to the old style early 20th century patchwork of immigrants still. some of them--the polish neighborhoods for example--have been how they are for multiple generations through a deliberate effort to preserve the place as somewhere for polish speakers. Poles in Chicago have actually moved quite a bit. The old core of Polish Chicago used to be around the Polonia Triangle, around the Division blue line station. There's still some infrastructure around there, like Holy Trinity/Trójcowo, the Copernicus Center, and the Polish Museum of America, but Poles themselves have largely moved farther northwest towards Jefferson Park. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Downtown_(Chicago) quote:In the 1960s, the area began to change radically. Completion of the Kennedy Expressway in 1960, whose construction had displaced many residents, disrupted the network of Polish-American churches, settlement houses, and neighborhood groups.[18] Additionally Puerto Ricans and other Latinos displaced by urban renewal in Old Town and Lincoln Park began moving in. In 1960 Latinos comprised less than 1 percent of West Town's population, but by 1970 that proportion had increased to 39 percent.[18] At the same time, more established ethnic Poles moved out to newer housing in the suburbs, following World War II and the housing boom. burnishedfume fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 02:05
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SlothfulCobra posted:And then politically we've had one Texan president and two faux-Texan presidents who weren't from Texas, but made it into a big part of their personal brands. I'm blanking on a second faux-Texan president. Like, there's LBJ, George W. Bush, and then I'm staring at a list of Presidents trying to figure out who else dressed themselves up as Texan. (Apparently Eisenhower was born in Texas? Had no idea.)
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Nov 2, 2023 02:13
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HW definitely did some things in Dallas 
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Nov 2, 2023 02:47
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steinrokkan posted:Have u heard about convenience stores though? Pretty wild stuff up there Have you heard about the delightful New York specialty dish The bacon egg and cheese sandwich? Its so beloved it even has its own local pronounciation! While other cities might call it a bacon egg and cheese. New Yorkers pronounce it baconeggncheese Vavrek posted:I'm blanking on a second faux-Texan president. Like, there's LBJ, George W. Bush, and then I'm staring at a list of Presidents trying to figure out who else dressed themselves up as Texan. (Apparently Eisenhower was born in Texas? Had no idea.) Both bushes are being counted as fake texan here I believe. HW never really made swaggering texan a part of his political brand like W did though. He was a New England Blue Blood Aristocrat and he acted like it. He worked and ran for office in Texas to try to "escape his father/grandfather's shadow" which is a very old money WASP thing to do. Its the entire reason FDR decided to be a democrat rather than a republican BIG FLUFFY DOG fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 04:55
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 Yeah the cartographer used that word there. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 04:56
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Platystemon posted:
hmm dallas and fort worth as separate dots. I wonder what state the map maker is from
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Nov 2, 2023 05:07
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Both bushes are being counted as fake texan here I believe. HW never really made swaggering texan a part of his political brand like W did though. He was a New England Blue Blood Aristocrat and he acted like it. He worked and ran for office in Texas to try to "escape his father/grandfather's shadow" which is a very old money WASP thing to do. Its the entire reason FDR decided to be a democrat rather than a republican Yeah, I started running through every postwar President trying to figure out where they would land and cut a couple sentences from the end of my post about "Nixon and Reagan are both incredibly Californian, Carter's the Georgia peanut farmer", etc., and part of that was that I don't know if George Bush actually did any of the faux-Texan act his son did. I just struggled to picture him having done any, but I was not paying much attention to politics in 1988-1992, so I might've missed it.
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Nov 2, 2023 05:27
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SlothfulCobra posted:Then there's an interesting history that people like romanticizing, people wanna remember the Alamo and the idea of boldly winning independence, but they don't want to remember the Seminole Wars where the native peoples of Florida were steadily removed so that decades later Florida could form (they also don't want to remember the Comanche wars, so that quietly doesn't get mentioned in pop texas history). And people don't really talk about the actual motives behind Texan independence and Alamo either. As a child I had seen some movies about Davy Crockett and that whole Battle of Alamo had a big part in forming my non-American view about that period and area. And oh boy when I learned how the heroes in Alamo were fighting for freedom against tyrannical Mexicans wanting to abolish slavery and wait what was that?! This was the first clear example for me that I remember how popular culture can not only play loose with facts and thus give people false impressions of historical facts but actively lie about them and make the opposite of reality the prevailing "truth".
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Nov 2, 2023 06:10
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i say swears online posted:for however sad applebees and strip malls are in the US i'm always horrified hearing about those pub chains in the UK that take over 300-year-old establishments SlothfulCobra posted:New York state and city had their population growth start to flatten out in the 40s, while Texas population growth has still been fairly steady even today. I feel like when my family moved here everybody else I knew was also not from around here (although internal migrants from inside Texas kinda balanced some things). 20.1% growth in 2010, 15.9% growth in 2020, as opposed to New York state growth being at 2.1% and 4.2%. City growth I think would be harder to track from the fact that commuting pushes a lot of growth outside of the boroughs.
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Nov 2, 2023 06:25
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West Virginia is the original USA, all other land is conquered and maintaned in peace by West Virginia. Tejas and La Florida, are just spanish territories in denial.
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Nov 2, 2023 08:42
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Platystemon posted:
What the gently caress happened to Michigan? The UP get flaccid and reverse direction?
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Nov 2, 2023 12:52
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EasilyConfused posted:What the gently caress happened to Michigan? The UP get flaccid and reverse direction? Don't worry honey it happens to a lot of peninsulas
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Nov 2, 2023 15:52
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EasilyConfused posted:What the gently caress happened to Michigan? The UP get flaccid and reverse direction? The map's including Lake Huron and Georgian Bay.
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Nov 2, 2023 19:53
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Nov 4, 2023 05:49
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Ahh, the fjords of the Amalfi Coast
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Nov 4, 2023 05:55
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Sicily is rightful Norwegian clay
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Nov 4, 2023 06:39
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Røme, the æternal city
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Nov 4, 2023 08:33
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Nov 4, 2023 09:30
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Fact: men think about Romerike at least once a day
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Nov 4, 2023 09:32
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Serious question: Isn't the arctic circle literally the worst place to build a rocket launch center? The ESA base is in French Guiana since that is the closest place to the equator Europe has. Similarly, US launch bases are all in the south. Because of that very useful slingshot you get near the equator from the spinning of the Earth.
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Nov 4, 2023 11:58
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Carbon dioxide posted:Serious question: Isn't the arctic circle literally the worst place to build a rocket launch center? The ESA base is in French Guiana since that is the closest place to the equator Europe has. Similarly, US launch bases are all in the south. Because of that very useful slingshot you get near the equator from the spinning of the Earth. i wonder that too, also the distance to space is longer from the poles i think
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Nov 4, 2023 12:09
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Carbon dioxide posted:Serious question: Isn't the arctic circle literally the worst place to build a rocket launch center? The ESA base is in French Guiana since that is the closest place to the equator Europe has. Similarly, US launch bases are all in the south. Because of that very useful slingshot you get near the equator from the spinning of the Earth. Carthag Tuek posted:i wonder that too, also the distance to space is longer from the poles i think DTurtle fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Nov 4, 2023 |
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Nov 4, 2023 12:31
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The big reasons to launch from near the equator are free eastward velocity, but also that you can only launch into orbital inclinations at or below the latitude of your launch site. If you want to orbit straight over the equator (e.g. geostationary), you can do that from an equatorial launch site. If you want to orbit pole‐to‐pole, just tip poleward as you launch. The reverse doesn’t work. From Santa’s workshop, all directions result in polar orbits. You’d have to enter orbit and then execute a change of plane, which is hellacious expensive in Δv, paid for in rocket propellant.
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Nov 4, 2023 12:38
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DTurtle posted:I’ve never heard of this idea before, but the atmosphere is thickest at the equator. oh yea i guess that makes sense, i just meant the earth is fatter around lol
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Nov 4, 2023 12:48
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The arctic is a poo poo place to launch rockets, but nevertheless best futureproof against Frau Revoir
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Nov 4, 2023 13:58
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