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Bar Crow posted:What are the extra recruiters supposed to do? Drag people off the streets? Dune buggies and net guns
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Nov 2, 2023 18:13
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Bar Crow posted:What are the extra recruiters supposed to do? Drag people off the streets? maybe they're gonna start putting them in middle schools in addition to high schools
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Nov 2, 2023 18:14
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Bar Crow posted:What are the extra recruiters supposed to do? Drag people off the streets? Set up a telegram channel for
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Nov 2, 2023 18:16
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pay more? esprit d’corp? all impossible in modern America, apparently
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Nov 2, 2023 18:17
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maybe they should offer more things that soldiers don't actually use, like college money. that way you get more guys but you don't have to pay much more business loans maybe
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Nov 2, 2023 18:19
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poisonpill posted:pay more? esprit d’corp? all impossible in modern America, apparently It's so funny that "why does nobody want to join the army?" is a question that's been pretty easily solved through all of history (pay them more, benefits) but is literally outside the imagination of anyone in power now.
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Nov 2, 2023 18:21
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Frosted Flake posted:It's so funny that "why does nobody want to join the army?" is a question that's been pretty easily solved through all of history (pay them more, benefits) but is literally outside the imagination of anyone in power now. because neoliberalism solved the problem on the cheap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l-Wzh78pyg&t=95s
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Nov 2, 2023 18:21
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Frosted Flake posted:It's so funny that "why does nobody want to join the army?" is a question that's been pretty easily solved through all of history (pay them more, benefits) but is literally outside the imagination of anyone in power now. Maybe people have already done it but it feels worth re-examining drones through this lens. The usual lens has been that of casualty aversion: putting fewer soldiers' lives at risk. I don't think I've ever seen anyone dispute this framing. It makes sense. But within the framework of class consciousness, I think there's something to be said for how drones are money for Capital, rather than for humans.
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Nov 2, 2023 18:29
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Raskolnikov38 posted:because neoliberalism solved the problem on the cheap This is funny because it actually isn't solved, the volunteer force is in shambles, and they're panicking and diverting people to recruiter school with no notice and all the requirements are dropped Will there be a draft? Well, the current force structure definitely won't work for any war in which the US military takes sustained casualties. Like, at all. The US Army couldn't fight the Ukraine/Russia war for three months without nervously eyeing the red button.
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Nov 2, 2023 18:34
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poisonpill posted:pay more? esprit d’corp? all impossible in modern America, apparently If you gave every single person in US active military service $1.2 million cash dollars right now, it would cost about the same as the F-35 program, lol.
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Nov 2, 2023 18:44
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Guess we get to see what happens when you try to do war fascism without any buy-in from the public whatsoever
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Nov 2, 2023 18:48
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https://www.military.com/daily-news...mmediately.html Just normal things that happen in a well oiled and functioning army. Imagine having thinks like leave for holidays already planned and you get orders for training immediately and then being completely in the dark to where you have to move for your recruiter job
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Nov 2, 2023 18:50
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Slavvy posted:Guess we get to see what happens when you try to do war fascism without any buy-in from the public whatsoever You're going to be begging for jingoistic nationalist war fascism propaganda when Biden rolls out woke scolding liberal war fascism propaganda
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Nov 2, 2023 18:53
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We're gonna have the draft again lmao Patrolling Gaza makes you wish for a nuclear winter.
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Nov 2, 2023 19:00
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skooma512 posted:We're gonna have the draft again lmao absolutely no way do we get a real draft again. maybe we’ll get some modern version of debtor’s prison or DUI -> Army diversions but no way are they doing a draft lottery or anything like that
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Nov 2, 2023 19:03
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poisonpill posted:pay more? esprit d’corp? all impossible in modern America, apparently the US military would find it a bit easier to recruit if the armed forces were not in the service of an empire that was destroying life on earth
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Nov 2, 2023 19:04
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I had a cousin who got in trouble when he was 19 and the judge gave him the choice between prison or join the army, which is not a thing I thought still existed.
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Nov 2, 2023 19:05
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Fell Mood posted:I had a cousin who got in trouble when he was 19 and the judge gave him the choice between prison or join the army, which is not a thing I thought still existed. Russia pressgangs people like DOO DOO DOO but American pressgangs people like dee dee dee. Trabisnikof posted:absolutely no way do we get a real draft again. maybe we’ll get some modern version of debtor’s prison or DUI -> Army diversions but no way are they doing a draft lottery or anything like that Why not? Who's gonna stop them? The only reasons anybody 2nd Amendments out here is 1. Black people exist grrr 2. Women exist grrr 3. The voices told me. This isn't a democracy, you can pass deeply unpopular legislation and be openly corrupt and no one will ever stop you.
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Nov 2, 2023 19:12
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skooma512 posted:We're gonna have the draft again lmao to have a draft you need to have a society to draft from. all that exists in america is a consumer marketplace
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Nov 2, 2023 19:51
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Centrist Committee posted:to have a draft you need to have a society to draft from. all that exists in america is a consumer marketplace There are a million books from 2003-2020 about how PMC solve that problem forever. Only, you can’t buy loyalty, it turns out, and PMC will turn tail if they actually have to risk their lives and not just brutalize Congolese miners and Iraqi minors.
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Nov 2, 2023 20:01
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Centrist Committee posted:to have a draft you need to have a society to draft from. all that exists in america is a consumer marketplace Just flood the media like after 9/11 and everyone will oink happily and join. Barring that, use force. I'd say take away college funding and healthcare but lol they already kinda did.
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Nov 2, 2023 20:14
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Love the idea of press ganging recruiters like how are you meant to get people to join up when the people trying to sell them on the idea hate their job and wish they weren't there
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Nov 2, 2023 20:17
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Slavvy posted:Guess we get to see what happens when you try to do war fascism without any buy-in from the public whatsoever That's why neoliberalism rules. Remember, they believe in a post-heroic age where soldiers can't be inspired to do anything particularly risky... like... fighting. They still want to have globe spanning military power.
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Nov 2, 2023 20:18
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Morbus posted:If you gave every single person in US active military service $1.2 million cash dollars right now, it would cost about the same as the F-35 program, lol. lol
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Nov 2, 2023 20:28
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Holy poo poo, that Hamas tank video. Really brings home the difference between a force that's willing to risk their lives and a force that values protecting its soldiers above all else.
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Nov 2, 2023 20:35
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Might be kind of good if the US military was once again full of guys who didn't really want to be there. We would at least get some good war movies again.
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Nov 2, 2023 20:36
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skooma512 posted:Russia pressgangs people like DOO DOO DOO but American pressgangs people like dee dee dee. I know docile sheep americans blah blah but dude zoomers aren't going to accept a draft. They'll be posting mutiny videos on tiktok within hours of being put into units. It won't even have to wait for deployments and casualties, a good half of young americans today would respond to effectively being arrested and press ganged with completely shutting down, there is absolutely no sense of patriotic duty or social responsibility left anywhere but the far right and those guys are just going to volunteer anyway. They're not going to do a draft, they couldn't even enforce a lockdown, they're just going to double down on neoliberal brain and just fail to meet quotas, whine, make excuses and cast partisan blame for whatever policy failure they hamfist into being like hiring some private firm to outsource recruiting for them. If this thread has taught us anything it's that neoliberal governments will refuse at every single turn to address any problem that requires real work or money being handed over without some kind of kickback for-profit enterprise that is definitionally incapable of actually addressing the problem. It has nothing to do with the extralegal powers available to the state, they are simply ideologically committed to never using the government to do anything but launder money. You can theorycraft a bunch of examples of how they could use the draft to do that sure, but I just don't think it's realistic because they just do not think like that, it's just outside how they have normalized exerting those powers.
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Nov 2, 2023 20:41
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Pistol_Pete posted:Holy poo poo, that Hamas tank video. Really brings home the difference between a force that's willing to risk their lives and a force that values protecting its soldiers above all else. Link?
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Nov 2, 2023 20:45
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Slavvy posted:Link? Check the last few pages of the I/P thread. To paraphrase: A Hamas guy with a Go-pro, in t-shirt and tracksuit bottoms, emerges from a tunnel. Two Israeli tanks are close by. He charges at the tanks while carrying an artillery shell, plants the shell on one of the tanks, runs back to the tunnel (nobody in the tanks has apparently noticed him), picks up an rpg and shoots the artillery shell with it, blowing the tank to smithereens. It's like something out of a computer game..
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Nov 2, 2023 20:52
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Pistol_Pete posted:Check the last few pages of the I/P thread. To paraphrase: argh i just corrected someone about this in that thread (but it's worth doing because it shows how it's even more heroic). he plants the artillery shell (modified), then pulls the pin and runs, then it explodes, then he gets passed the rocket launcher, and fires at the second tank.
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Nov 2, 2023 21:10
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Raskolnikov38 posted:because neoliberalism solved the problem on the cheap Outsource the army to China?
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Nov 2, 2023 21:40
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they'll just wreck south and central america and dangle asylum for service, simple as
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Nov 2, 2023 21:42
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The draft has social implications that are antithetical to neoliberalism (there is a society, society can do things to you, you can do things to society). the US will have mass formations of noncitizen mercenaries long before ever reintroducing the draft imo.
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Nov 2, 2023 21:48
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We're expecting ww3 but what we'll get is 30 years war, American edition
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Nov 2, 2023 22:16
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Best Friends posted:The draft has social implications that are antithetical to neoliberalism (there is a society, society can do things to you, you can do things to society). the US will have mass formations of noncitizen mercenaries long before ever reintroducing the draft imo.
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Nov 2, 2023 23:13
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Best Friends posted:The draft has social implications that are antithetical to neoliberalism (there is a society, society can do things to you, you can do things to society). the US will have mass formations of noncitizen mercenaries long before ever reintroducing the draft imo. Yeah, better integrating foreign mercs is more on brand for the founding fathers' hardon for Roman stuff. I don't think you can turn contemporary Americans into soldiers and trying to do so would break the country even without any kind of organized resistance to the draft.
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Nov 2, 2023 23:43
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Slavvy posted:Link? The US will lose WW3
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Nov 3, 2023 02:05
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Bar Crow posted:What are the extra recruiters supposed to do? Drag people off the streets? Worked for Ukraine.
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Nov 3, 2023 02:11
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DancingShade posted:Worked for Ukraine. US doesn't have walkable streets though
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Nov 3, 2023 02:14
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sullat posted:US doesn't have walkable streets though Malls, schools, buses, subways. You'll be eating in McDonald's and suddenly vans pull up. Armed men in uniform herd all the workers and staff into a bus, front line in a week after some cursory training. You pull out your medical certificate. It's torn up in your face and then you are shoved onto the bus.
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Nov 3, 2023 02:21
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