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PoontifexMacksimus posted:It can be hard to find good sources (in English...) about how the enormous empires of the early Caliphates actually worked, but from my understanding, once a more regular imperial governance was implemented after the initial period of expansion it was all about (for the new imperial elites) securing governorships of provinces, so that you could extract tax revenues, and hopefully get out before your successor would accuse you of stealing said tax revenues and try to extort your hard-gotten wealth from you; in some ways very much like the Roman senatorial governorship system. I wonder if anyone has written anything about the similarities between Rome and the early Caliphate from that perspective? I read a very good paper about it yesterday just give me a minute to dig it up
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Nov 4, 2023 00:06
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really queer Christmas posted:The entire purpose of it is for this congressperson(s) to give their base and donors red meat, and enrage their opponents to build more support. It has absolutely no chance in going anywhere, and posting it and getting mad about it here is how you get the succ zone. I think people should save their outrage for the genocide, and not bills that will never come to pass.
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Nov 4, 2023 00:07
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OSINT guy straight up calling for genocide https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1720521769998553437
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Nov 4, 2023 00:08
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As someone who's father was ethnically cleansed, which turned out to be the best thing that could have happened to him, https://twitter.com/steveplotnicki/status/1720545760893136973?t=bqnu2DUAAb_vsTbOlb2v8Q&s=19 (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 4, 2023 00:08
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dead gay comedy forums posted:paging frosted flake Yes exactly, I’ll find that paper
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Nov 4, 2023 00:09
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Father Wendigo posted:As someone who's father was ethnically cleansed, which turned out to be the best thing that could have happened to him, 
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Nov 4, 2023 00:10
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never again unless there is a colorable argument for it and people are mad
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Nov 4, 2023 00:12
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the per capitalism gdp lol
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Nov 4, 2023 00:12
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Father Wendigo posted:As someone who's father was ethnically cleansed, which turned out to be the best thing that could have happened to him, Wow, there sure are some WEIRDOS on Twitter.com
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Nov 4, 2023 00:13
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The Holocaust sucked, yes (big time), but it made Zionists powerful. Who are you to deny Palestinians the same opportunity. They will be reforged
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Nov 4, 2023 00:13
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really queer Christmas posted:Smarxist asked me about it and what I said is that this bill will never come close to passing. The entire purpose of it is for this congressperson(s) to give their base and donors red meat, and enrage their opponents to build more support. It has absolutely no chance in going anywhere, and posting it and getting mad about it here is how you get the succ zone. I think people should save their outrage for the genocide, and not bills that will never come to pass. If it does actually become a bill that has a huge chance to pass, then im 100% wrong and it's worth discussing in this thread. mod hat on
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Nov 4, 2023 00:13
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PawParole posted:Contrary to the popular narrative of Islam spreading by the sword, the ummayads banned all conversion to Islam expect for Umar 2 and wanted to make Islam an ethno-religion for the Arab conquerors. Pictured: the Rashidun caliphate at its height. That's the preceding caliphate, the first four caliphs, for those who don't know. Also, I think it's worth distinguishing Islam spreading geographically by the sword from gaining converts by the sword. My understanding is the former happened under the Ummayads.
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Nov 4, 2023 00:13
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per capitalism
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Nov 4, 2023 00:14
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Smythe posted:mod hat on 
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Nov 4, 2023 00:14
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my father just got ethnically cleansed and he’s never been happier
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Nov 4, 2023 00:15
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Bouillon Rube posted:my father just got ethnically cleansed and he’s never been happier juche cleanse
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Nov 4, 2023 00:16
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Bouillon Rube posted:my father just got ethnically cleansed and he’s never been happier you get ethnically cleansed, I get ethically cleansed win win
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Nov 4, 2023 00:16
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If anything, the burger posting idea is part of the whitewashing of US culpability in Israel. The US doesn't distantly support Israel on occasion but is an integrated part of Israel. I wouldn't even call Israel the 51st state because they are more tightly connected to the federal government and have more of a say in US affairs than any actual US state. You can debate sending relief funds to some US state but even suggesting there should be a dialogue around Israeli funding sends both parties and the media establishment calling for your blood. Here is something I do think is burger posting: electoral politics. You can't vote in someone who's anti-killing innocents. Anyone who gets to a ballot is either a baby killer or is being groomed to be a baby killer. You cannot vote for any change to the plight of the Palestinians.
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Nov 4, 2023 00:18
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dead gay comedy forums posted:paging frosted flake Thank you very much! Obviously, the fact that the early states of Islam faced so few specifically anti-Islam rebellions in Iraq, Syria, Egypt or Iran cannot be justified only by Byzantine-Sassaind exhaustion or iconoclasm or the other internal issues usually raised. Islam must have offered an actual and better alternative as a political system, even if not immediately as a new religion. My understanding was based on what I suppose is an early western standard stance that the management of the early Caliphal empire was based on structures inherited from the Sassanids, but obviously that could not have produced a lasting peace in the areas used to Byzantine rule like Syria and Egypt (yes, I know they were briefly conquered by the Sassanids). And again, the people living in those regions were often very slow to convert to Islam, yet seemed quite content under Caliphate rule. Most unrest we know of would instead be between different interpretations of Islam from within the group of the conquerors... PoontifexMacksimus has issued a correction as of 00:31 on Nov 4, 2023 |
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Nov 4, 2023 00:19
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FuzzySlippers posted:If anything, the burger posting idea is part of the whitewashing of US culpability in Israel. The US doesn't distantly support Israel on occasion but is an integrated part of Israel. I wouldn't even call Israel the 51st state because they are more tightly connected to the federal government and have more of a say in US affairs than any actual US state. You can debate sending relief funds to some US state but even suggesting there should be a dialogue around Israeli funding sends both parties and the media establishment calling for your blood. im pretty sure were all very clear here that the us is ultimately the main guilty party as they are entirely responsible for israel give it the support and cover it needs to survive and continue its genocide. and far as i can tell no-one is whitewashing this in this thread
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Nov 4, 2023 00:20
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good poo poo from Coates despite some of his succ past, had a coworker link me this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_df_u7yJj3k
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Nov 4, 2023 00:22
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rip to hezbollah drone martyrs
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Nov 4, 2023 00:23
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Economic Boundaries? Late Antiquity and Early Islam Author(s): Michael G. Morony Source: Journal of the Economic and Social History of the Orient , 2004, Vol. 47, No. 2 (2004), pp. 166-194 Published by: Brill Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/25165033 "The Sasanians helped to destroy the Late Antique economy in Anatolia and to undermine it in Syria. It is as though one economy literally arose at the expense of the other. It is surely significant, and perhaps no accident, that it was Syria, Palestine, Egypt, and North Africa, where the Late Antique economy survived in its most sophisticated form, that were incorporated into the early Islamic empire and economy rather than Anatolia. It is also worth suggesting that the Sasanian campaigns under Khusraw II and the early Islamic conquests were the political and military expressions of an expanding economy. Whether an economy is expanding or contracting is a matter of the volume and/or value of production and exchange, which are impossible to measure for the period under discussion here. Our conclusions can only be impressionistic. But issues of economic production go beyond expansion and contraction and should consider production for self-sufficient use versus production for exchange, changes in crops and kinds of animals, the nature of manufactured products, and local specialization in the production of particular goods for export. It is not possible to go into these issues here except to note that, compared with Late Antiquity, production in the early Islamic economy was more profoundly commercialized and specialized. But there was probably not a single unified Late Antique economy. The impression that there was is based on imperial legislation that was intended to apply throughout the entire late Roman Empire. However, uniform models are useful when making comparisons, and in this case allow one to speak of a retracting Late Antique economy that was chronologically overlapped by an expanding Sasanian/proto-Islamic economy in the sixth and early seventh centuries. This would be a teeter-totter view of economic history, with one region or sector of the economy going up while another goes down. An alternative model would be of one region or sector of the Late Antique economy overtaking another or others, but not all of them, and going on to become the dominant economy in the early Islamic period." Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 00:31 on Nov 4, 2023 |
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Nov 4, 2023 00:27
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lol suicide drones vs heroic cruise missiles is some 21st century human wave tactics wording.HallelujahLee posted:im pretty sure were all very clear here that the us is ultimately the main guilty party as they are entirely responsible for israel give it the support and cover it needs to survive and continue its genocide. and far as i can tell no-one is whitewashing this in this thread Yeah, you're totally right as the thread is very good about that. I was talking past the thread at some stupid loving msnbc brained poo poo I was exposed to a while ago and that's a dumb thing for me to do.
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Nov 4, 2023 00:28
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Spoondick posted:rip to hezbollah drone martyrs seventy-two brand-new roombas await in heaven (Jesus the convoluted-rear end wording the press is using to try to recast everything that's happening.) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 4, 2023 00:29
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really queer Christmas is right, burgers should continue to be destroyed, empty words coming from a corner of the USA's congress are not germane.The Atomic Man-Boy posted:Someone posted earlier in the thread about the US no longer needing to support Israel as hard as it does. Most middle East countries are just running dogs of US hegemony at this point, especially the gulf states, and the ones that aren't (with the exception of Iran) like Syria and Libya have been carved up bu US-backed civil war. The gulf states are dictatorships trying to maintain their political system. This has neccesarily involved aligning with America in the past but this is fading. If they were wholly subservient to the USA's interests SA and the UAE would not be joining BRICS. Israel on the other hand because of its nature as a militaristic ethno state is fundamentally reliant on America, it is not an ally that can drift out of America's orbit into China's, because China will not support it in the way America does, which it requires to survive.
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Nov 4, 2023 00:31
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FuzzySlippers posted:Yeah, you're totally right as the thread is very good about that. I was talking past the thread at some stupid loving msnbc brained poo poo I was exposed to a while ago and that's a dumb thing for me to do. fair enough
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Nov 4, 2023 00:32
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who gives a poo poo about the burger posting rule it’s just a sixer and if you can’t handle taking six hours off you need the break more than anyone. burger post if you’re willing to pay the tax and don’t if you’re not dta dta
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Nov 4, 2023 00:32
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:Thank you very much! Obviously, the fact that the early states of Islam faced so few specifically anti-Islam rebellions in Iraq, Syria, Egypt or Iran cannot be justified only by Byzantine-Sassaind exhaustion or iconoclasm or the other internal issues usually raised. Islam must have offered an actual and better alternative as a political system, even if not immediately as a new religion. "Thus, the important economic boundary that emerges is the one between Anatolia and Syria, not the political frontier between the Late Roman and Sasanian empires. With the Muslim Arab conquest of Syria this boundary also became the political frontier. Liebeschuetz (2002: 414) wonders whether: 'social and economic trends which were to become evident after the Arab conquest had begun in a quiet way before the establishment of the Arab empire, and that an economic region encompassing Arabia, Syria, and Mesopotamia had been developing well before the Arab conquest created the political one?' Ward-Perkins (1996: 11) is more blunt: urban change in Syria at the end of Late Antiquity was a positive development that liberated cities from aristocratic Roman urban formalism and made it possible for Islamic commercial enterprise to thrive."
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Nov 4, 2023 00:33
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Spoondick posted:rip to hezbollah drone martyrs lol the western media doesn't know how to handle the proliferation of cheap cruise missiles
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Nov 4, 2023 00:33
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gently caress all the western politicians enabling this and double gently caress them for taking credit when they get Israel to take a five minute drinks break
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Nov 4, 2023 00:34
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Real hurthling! posted:the per capitalism gdp lol TheLemonOfIchabod posted:per capitalism
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Nov 4, 2023 00:35
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Frosted Flake posted:Economic Boundaries? Late Antiquity and Early Islam Author(s): Michael G. Morony Hmm, seems interesting, but again seems to state the priority of a Iran-centered economy that Islam was essentially able to take over, including taking over Sassanid models and technologies of imperial rulership, when I think, again, that Caliphal models of governship seemed to have a lot more in common with the conquest-province-senatorial-governorship of Rome.. Since my understanding of actual Sassanid provincial governance was that it was far more local-feudal in nature.. But I will read the article! Frosted Flake posted:
Is that a quote from the article or another source? PoontifexMacksimus has issued a correction as of 00:39 on Nov 4, 2023 |
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Nov 4, 2023 00:37
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Calibanibal posted:I'm torn on the ambulance incident, on one hand - yeah bad shoot there probably weren't any terrorism in the truck (hamas do all of their traveling through the Underway). On the other hand I feel like ambulances shouldn't have giant red X's painted on them driving a palestian ambulance and theres 6 stars of david at the top left of my vision
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Nov 4, 2023 00:39
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Smythe posted:mod hat on
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Nov 4, 2023 00:40
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Smythe posted:mod wig on
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Nov 4, 2023 00:40
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:Is that a quote from the article or another source? Same article, p. 180 The best new book on the subject is very good, Pre-Islamic Arabia: Societies, Politics, Cults and Identities during Late Antiquity This book delves into the political and cultural developments of pre-Islamic Arabia, focusing on the religious attitudes of the inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula and its northern extension into the Syrian desert. Between the third and the seventh century, Arabia was on the edge of three great empires (Iran, Rome and Aksūm) and at the centre of a lucrative network of trade routes. Valentina Grasso offers an interpretative framework which contextualizes the choice of Arabian elites to become Jewish sympathisers and/or convert to Christianity and Islam by probing the mobilization of faith in the shaping of Arabian identities. For the first time the Arabians of the period are granted autonomy from marginalizing (mostly Western) narratives framing them as 'barbarians' inhabiting the fringes of Rome and Iran and/or deterministic analyses in which they are depicted retrospectively as exemplified by the Muslims' definition of the period as Jāhilīyah, 'ignorance'.
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Nov 4, 2023 00:41
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:Caliphal models of governship seemed to have a lot more in common with the conquest-province-senatorial-governorship of Rome.. The Caliphate was second Rome?!
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Nov 4, 2023 00:43
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VoicesCanBe posted:It seems like the Israeli and US governments, as well as western media, went all-in on one single incident - the October 17th hospital bombing. That was the one where they threw out a bunch of lies to obscure the obvious reality that Israel bombed it. I guess maybe they felt that was just enough to muddy the waters so their supporters could feel better about it and all subsequent bombings, but yeah there's no longer any effort to hide what's happening It's important to go in on the first one. Normies never revisit old controversies, but remember that the question was in doubt (and so all future ones are also in doubt)
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Nov 4, 2023 00:45
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the caliphates also derived their legitimacy from adherence to the model of the prophet, but because of how the sunnah is passed down they were inevitably going to drift away from that model over time and lose that legitimacy. it’s an inherently unstable form of government past a few generations.
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Nov 4, 2023 00:47
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