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Best Friends posted:it is genuinely weird that the US makes the coast guard (effectively) a branch of the military. I don’t think anyone else does that. whatever it is it’s a US insanity. is there any other country that militarises their police in the style of special forces operators instead of doing a gendarmerie?
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Nov 4, 2023 05:32
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Best Friends posted:it is genuinely weird that the US makes the coast guard (effectively) a branch of the military. I don’t think anyone else does that. whatever it is it’s a US insanity. Is there another country that has three different independent air forces (4 if you count army helicopters) that compete for funding and barely cooperate on equipment? America is a global leader in finding new ways to waste money and be poorly organized. I'm sure making the coast guard part of the military made someone money and/or was a maneuver in some pointless bureaucratic war. That's why a space force that can't get to space is so on brand for us.
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Nov 4, 2023 05:38
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Megamissen posted:is there any other country that militarises their police in the style of special forces operators instead of doing a gendarmerie? mexico sorta did the opposite 
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Nov 4, 2023 05:55
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Best Friends posted:it is genuinely weird that the US makes the coast guard (effectively) a branch of the military. I don’t think anyone else does that. whatever it is it’s a US insanity. China in fact does this as well.
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Nov 4, 2023 07:08
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huh! good to know. being a sort-of military seems generally counterproductive to the core missions of law enforcement and rescue.
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Nov 4, 2023 07:19
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quote:Coast Guard, wildlife specialists rescue injured pelican on Eastern Shore
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Nov 4, 2023 07:41
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Best Friends posted:huh! good to know. being a sort-of military seems generally counterproductive to the core missions of law enforcement and rescue. they were initially for fighting pirates i think
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Nov 4, 2023 08:08
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Best Friends posted:huh! good to know. being a sort-of military seems generally counterproductive to the core missions of law enforcement and rescue. I'm no lawyer but I feel like law enforcement of citizens on domestic soil vs law enforcement of vessels in your oceans is a fundamentally different type of dynamic. I could see a military or non military setup being viable here. What's your concern with this setup?
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Nov 4, 2023 08:33
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Well, I don't think you can draw the line of territory at soil versus ocean for one thing. Doesn't territory extend several miles out to sea? If I'm a private citizen (lol) committing a crime in a city, I don't think the military should be able to detain or investigate me. Likewise, if I'm a private boater in the ocean within territorial limits and 18th century sensibilities I'd probably say the government's military shouldn't be able to arrest me while I'm illegally fishing or what have you. I'm also no lawyer but I suppose my point is that people can gently caress around in the ocean close to land and I assumed it was loosely the same rules with regards to land police/military dynamic. Admiralty law is complicated however. e: add "constitutionally speaking" to everything because it is a hypothetical and I wonder what our lawmakers 200 years hence thought about such things. I'll take a letter of marque and go privateering, thank you all the same palindrome has issued a correction as of 08:59 on Nov 4, 2023 |
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Nov 4, 2023 08:53
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Odd that the USCG is cutting back on partoling America's home waters, but maintaining ships and bases as far afield as the Persian Gulf and Guam.
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Nov 4, 2023 09:04
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Centrist Committee posted:hey ff or someone, what is the role of the coast guard in the imperial order anyway? what’s the difference between a coast guard and a navy etc etc. idgi Revenue, mostly, before free trade
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Nov 4, 2023 13:20
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Coast guard was part of the department of transportation until 9/11 and George Bush brought them under the DHS umbrella 
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Nov 4, 2023 13:24
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atelier morgan posted:mutiny, fragging and sabotage nearly destroyed the military in vietnam (and there were entire formations that were, for all military purposes, destroyed because they could not be trusted or relied on to do absolutely anything) Are there any good books or anything about this?
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Nov 4, 2023 13:37
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Megamissen posted:is there any other country that militarises their police in the style of special forces operators instead of doing a gendarmerie? Turkey has both
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Nov 4, 2023 14:42
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Votskomit posted:I'm no lawyer but I feel like law enforcement of citizens on domestic soil vs law enforcement of vessels in your oceans is a fundamentally different type of dynamic. I could see a military or non military setup being viable here. my understanding as relayed to me by a coast guard dude (us) is that international law says that a military vessel doing boardings outside of armed conflict is either piracy or an act of war, which is why the coast guard has never been in the department of defense. (coast guard personnel are seconded to the navy to do boardings outside war for this exact reason). So you have a sort of military with naval guns (that mostly don’t work) and ships much bigger than you probably need so they can be very lovely frigates for theoretical war purposes, and a full military rank structure, but all of it is technically civilian by necessity of international law. So depending on how you look at it you either have a military branch that has to run lighthouses and search & rescue while not legally being a military, or you have a actual coast guard that needs to waste time and money pretending to be a military.
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Nov 4, 2023 15:34
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Gripweed posted:Are there any good books or anything about this? the latter part of James William Gibson's "The Perfect War: Technowar in Vietnam" has some great stuff about this    
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Nov 4, 2023 15:58
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gradenko_2000 posted:the latter part of James William Gibson's "The Perfect War: Technowar in Vietnam" has some great stuff about this That book looks really interesting, thanks. I wonder why the stuff about black prison revolts isn't in the common cultural memory of Vietnam. That stuff at the end about not wanting to be the last to die in the war reminds me a lot of the similar problem they had at the end of Korea. But I haven't heard about officers getting fragged then.
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Nov 4, 2023 16:30
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Best Friends posted:my understanding as relayed to me by a coast guard dude (us) is that international law says that a military vessel doing boardings outside of armed conflict is either piracy or an act of war, which is why the coast guard has never been in the department of defense. (coast guard personnel are seconded to the navy to do boardings outside war for this exact reason). Similar reason Chinese coast guard has pretty big ships retired from the navy to handle most of the disputes in Diaoyu/Senkaku island and SCS.
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Nov 4, 2023 16:49
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Best Friends posted:my understanding as relayed to me by a coast guard dude (us) is that international law says that a military vessel doing boardings outside of armed conflict is either piracy or an act of war it's good and part of the based order when İsrail does it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid quote:The Gaza flotilla raid was a military operation by Israel against six civilian ships of the "Gaza Freedom Flotilla" on 31 May 2010 in international waters in the Mediterranean Sea. Nine activists were killed during the raid and dozens wounded, including one who later died of his wounds, while ten Israeli soldiers were wounded, one seriously. Three of the six flotilla ships, organized by the Free Gaza Movement and the Turkish Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief (İHH), were carrying humanitarian aid and construction materials, intending to break the Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip. Israel had warned the flotilla to abort their mission, describing it as a provocation.[1]
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Nov 4, 2023 17:58
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Why would a zoomer or heck, a millennial, fight a war for America lol
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Nov 4, 2023 18:28
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Making a sacrifice in behalf of Blameless B
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Nov 4, 2023 18:37
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we don't wanna go to war today but the lord of the lash says: "nay, nay, nay!" were gonna march all day, all day, all day! where there's a whip there's a way!
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Nov 4, 2023 18:50
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Gripweed posted:That book looks really interesting, thanks. I wonder why the stuff about black prison revolts isn't in the common cultural memory of Vietnam. look at media today about things going on right now and extrapolate it backwards a little, and then consider that common cultural memory is created by the news media i used to have a blog post handy that provided some general details from a commie perspective but i lost the link and google might as well not exist any more so i'm thankful to gradenko for picking up the slack there
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Nov 4, 2023 19:24
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atelier morgan posted:
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Nov 4, 2023 19:50
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Gripweed posted:I wonder why the stuff about black prison revolts isn't in the common cultural memory of Vietnam. Buddy, the Americans still literally do not acknowledge widespread AWOL and straight up desertion in Italy in 1944-45.
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Nov 4, 2023 19:50
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Frosted Flake posted:Buddy, the Americans still literally do not acknowledge widespread AWOL and straight up desertion in Italy in 1944-45. Wut? The British desertion crisis in Italy is well known, as is the gang violence arguably driven by U.S. deserters after Paris liberation, but this is the first I’ve heard of this, and Duck Duck Go isn’t turning up Jack poo poo. Its believable though, where’s more info?
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Nov 4, 2023 20:33
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Remulak posted:Wut? The British desertion crisis in Italy is well known, as is the gang violence arguably driven by U.S. deserters after Paris liberation, but this is the first I’ve heard of this, and Duck Duck Go isn’t turning up Jack poo poo. I said, American. It's in the British official histories, regimental diaries and so on, but the Americans specifically excluded mention of it. “Fortunately the front-line infantrymen of Fifth and Eighth Armies were unaware of the shortage of ammunition, since they had come to place their trust in the support of the guns in both offensive and defensive situations. Such knowledge would have been a major blow to morale, already a serious problem for commanders at all levels. The greatest manifestation of that problem was in the numbers who deserted. Figures for desertions are available for Eighth Army and the British official historian is candid about the problem. In contrast, there is no mention of the problem either in the US Army’s official history of the Italian campaign, or in Fifth Army’s history, which, however, does refer to an ‘increase in the number of courts-martial cases, which soared especially among the veteran divisions’. Both sources describe efforts made in Fifth Army to maintain morale, which hints at the existence of a desertion problem without admitting that there was one” Victory in Italy: 15th Army Group's Final Campaign 1945
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Nov 4, 2023 21:23
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gradenko_2000 posted:the latter part of James William Gibson's "The Perfect War: Technowar in Vietnam" has some great stuff about this Despite the somewhat goofy title (many years later its funny to think of Vietnam as a 'techno war') this is a really good book and worth the read.
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Nov 4, 2023 23:30
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Frosted Flake posted:Buddy, the Americans still literally do not acknowledge widespread AWOL and straight up desertion in Italy in 1944-45. my grandpa got busted going awol over enemy lines to go whoring when a whole german regiment surrendered to him and he had to walk them back to the base and they took a rank off of him for it.
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Nov 5, 2023 05:50
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Real hurthling! posted:my grandpa got busted going awol over enemy lines to go whoring when a whole german regiment surrendered to him and he had to walk them back to the base and they took a rank off of him for it. Dudes rock
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Nov 5, 2023 06:03
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Real hurthling! posted:my grandpa got busted going awol over enemy lines to go whoring when a whole german regiment surrendered to him and he had to walk them back to the base and they took a rank off of him for it. Wait did they surrender to him while on a whoring excursion or did he go on a whoring excursion while theoretically guarding a regiment of POW's?
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Nov 5, 2023 08:55
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Slavvy posted:Wait did they surrender to him while on a whoring excursion or did he go on a whoring excursion while theoretically guarding a regiment of POW's? Based on FF's citations of British homosex I'm going to guess the regiment were the whores.
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Nov 5, 2023 09:20
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Need a nomogram calculating commonwealth soldier homosex distribution for a given area and troop density
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Nov 5, 2023 09:25
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My god, it’s off the charts.
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Nov 5, 2023 09:27
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NATO homosex manufacturing is totally inadequate to meet battlefield demand which is why they are losing ww3
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Nov 5, 2023 09:29
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Slavvy posted:Need a no-homo-gram calculating commonwealth soldier homosex distribution for a given area and troop density
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Nov 5, 2023 10:14
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frozenphil posted:Based on FF's citations of British homosex I'm going to guess the regiment were the whores. Slavvy posted:Need a nomogram calculating commonwealth soldier homosex distribution for a given area and troop density
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Nov 5, 2023 13:07
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Slavvy posted:Wait did they surrender to him while on a whoring excursion or did he go on a whoring excursion while theoretically guarding a regiment of POW's? him and a pal went through the wire and over the lines but before they could get into town to see a lady, they come over a hill and theres a dozens of germans with white flags heading toward the lines begging them to escort them back
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Nov 5, 2023 14:42
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one of those where you either lose a rank or gain one, depending on the COs mood
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Nov 5, 2023 15:19
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https://x.com/jonathanvswan/status/1721167445916799141?s=20quote:A Secret War, Strange New Wounds, and Silence From the Pentagon
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Nov 5, 2023 15:24
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