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Christ almighty I'm trying to get a few wins with Qin Shi Huang on Immortal and its a loving nightmare, its so loving hard to get Ancient and Classical wonders up quickly and actually make use of his bonus while also doing all of the other stuff you need to do to not die instantly to a tidal wave of Barbarians or Surprise Wars and just generally grow quickly to stay relevant.
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Nov 4, 2023 06:08
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| # ? May 16, 2024 09:18 |
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So, I'm trying to work my way up the higher difficulties, can I really just ask, does anyone actually like the way that Barbarians are implemented into the game on Immortal and Deity difficulties? It has got to be the single most obnoxious and infuriating elements of the game trying to handle this, I know about trying to intercept the scout before he gets back to base and keep some visibility on your surroundings, but look at what happened to me in my last game: A barbarian camp spawns all of two tiles away from my capital at about turn 15, all I've managed to build was a scout along with my starting warrior before this threat appeared, my warrior was on the banks of the Yellow River there but this was nowhere near enough time for him to get back to the city and certainly not quick enough to halt the barb scout. Within probably two turns of the camp appearing the barb scout is back at his camp and they are fully alert, they immediately shart out at least six horsemen, this image was taken after I'd already managed to kill 2 along with their starting spearman by parking my warrior in the forest and letting them suicide on him. Unsurprisingly my warrior was killed the next turn after this by the two cav archers, but I was just so desperate to shut down the clone factory that was making them that I jumped on the camp when the opportunity presented itself. So now I had 4 barbarian horsemen running around with nothing for me to do until my slinger was created, but its not like he could realistically kill them all and certainly not quickly enough for me to resume normal production and expansion. This isn't even the end of it, if you look north you can see another barb camp, while I was trying to deal with the first barb camp their scout dropped down and went back immediately, lo and behold it was also a loving horseman camp, immediately shits out another 4 horsemen and captures both my worker and the other settler. At that point I just gave up. I know barbs can't destroy your capital but this is just so loving ridiculous, there's no way a game like this can be salvaged and I feel punished to ludicrous degrees for things I can't really help most of the time when the camps are spawning so close to me and making so many units. If they made so that the camps cannot spawn within a certain distance of your territory or maybe so that the amount of units ramps up slower over time so it starts with 1 or 2 and increases at intervals if you leave it to fester instead of throwing 5 or 6 units at you immediately, I could deal with it. As it is trying to just start a game on higher difficulties feels like a complete crapshoot between poor start locations, bad luck with nearby civs and the agonizing whac-a-mole that is trying to handle Barbarians where its got to be one of the most punishing and random feeling systems in the whole game that completely torpedo a promising looking game in the first 25 turns.
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Nov 5, 2023 01:21
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Private Cumshoe posted:Make the AI start with more settlers so I have more settlers to steal
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Nov 5, 2023 01:35
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That's super unlucky but it's still theoretically survivable. Definitely get slingers out faster. My typical starting build is 2x scout and a slinger, and if I get an early barb invasion I beeline the slinger. Builders and settlers have only marginal utility that early on. A builder gets you at best +3 food/production and cost 50 production, so it takes 17 turns to break even, and that's assuming you even have tiles worth using them on. A settler costs you a population point and 80 production, and unless you're going to be settling it on a really good spot (like a natural wonder), is also not going to pay off any time soon. Slingers usually pay off immediately by keeping you save from barbs and hostile AI, and more scouts give you a better chance of avoiding the invasions and also finding good stuff. Another problem is that your starting location just kinda sucks. The best tile within your first two rings is the silk, and even that's not that great. You really want to aim for tiles with at least 4 total food and production, because those actually give you double the surplus of a tile with only 3 food/production (since the citizen that works the tile has to eat two food). Or settling on a tile with more than 2 food or 1 production, like the plains hills directly left of your capitol, because that will increase your capitol's base yield. Depending on where you started and what you could see, I would have settled on the hill, or south between the silk and bananas. Also you don't have to clear the camp ASAP, the barbs won't spawn endlessly. The city state to your left might help take them out. Which isn't ideal because you'll miss out on the money and era score, but it's probably better than sacrificing a warrior. Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Nov 5, 2023 01:53
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For the record the builder was a village reward, I didn't hard build it. Realistically speaking, how many turns can you spend looking for a good start location for your first city? I'm always in a state of mind that its imperative to get it down either the first or second turn, but I can see that may not be for the best.
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Nov 5, 2023 02:09
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I've come to embrace barbarians and almost always turn on Barbarian Clans Mode. The AI cannot handle it, so it keeps them weaker. PotatoMcWhiskey is in the middle of a playthrough as the updated Rome which gets huge bonuses from barbarians. It's a hoot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpTNOz6a7mc
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Nov 5, 2023 02:22
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khwarezm posted:For the record the builder was a village reward, I didn't hard build it. I try to aim for by the second turn for 4 point tiles or good city bases. Third turn if I can reach a 5 point tile, and maaaaaybe fourth turn if I spy a rare 6 point tile or a good natural wonder.
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Nov 5, 2023 02:36
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You should have slammed the "restart" button as soon as you saw that starting terrain, imo. But if not then, then definitely when the barb camp spawned. It's just not worth your time to deal with bad RNG at high difficulty.
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Nov 5, 2023 03:27
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DontMockMySmock posted:You should have slammed the "restart" button as soon as you saw that starting terrain, imo. But if not then, then definitely when the barb camp spawned. It's just not worth your time to deal with bad RNG at high difficulty. That all depends on not getting barbfucked, however.
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Nov 5, 2023 04:32
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Albino Squirrel posted:It's not that bad of a starting position. You've got a couple of +3 Holy site/campus tiles in the mountains to the north of the city, and plenty of opportunities for an aqueduct/dam/industrial triangle in the floodplains. It's been like five years since I started playing this game and I still have no idea how to plan for where dams can be placed.
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Nov 5, 2023 04:44
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Remalle posted:It's been like five years since I started playing this game and I still have no idea how to plan for where dams can be placed. Yeah, same here. I could use a mod where it highlights which tiles can have which district or wonder and tell me what requirements are missing. I've had that screw my placement so many times, not just with dams
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Nov 5, 2023 05:12
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Dr. Fraiser Chain posted:Yeah, same here. I could use a mod where it highlights which tiles can have which district or wonder and tell me what requirements are missing. I've had that screw my placement so many times, not just with dams Detailed Map Tacks: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2428969051 It won't do exactly what you want, but it will tell you when a tack that you place is invalid. Dams are easy, you can put them on any floodplains tile that has at least two sides touching a river.
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Nov 5, 2023 07:36
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Mike the TV posted:I've come to embrace barbarians and almost always turn on Barbarian Clans Mode. The AI cannot handle it, so it keeps them weaker. Is this a mod? I haven’t fired up VI in a minute, did the civs or leaders get an update?
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Nov 5, 2023 14:54
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Remalle posted:It's been like five years since I started playing this game and I still have no idea how to plan for where dams can be placed. I think.
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Nov 5, 2023 16:47
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I have a question. I pre-ordered civ 6 (lol) way back when and got the "Deluxe" edition, which meant I got the expansions for free when they eventually came out and the DLC too. But it seems that perk ran out at some point because I see there's a "corporations" game mode and it seems I don't have it. I have clans and tech shuffle modes, but not corps. Can anyone confirm what is and isn't included in Deluxe? Google is failing me
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Nov 5, 2023 17:53
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Microplastics posted:I have a question. I pre-ordered civ 6 (lol) way back when and got the "Deluxe" edition, which meant I got the expansions for free when they eventually came out and the DLC too. But it seems that perk ran out at some point because I see there's a "corporations" game mode and it seems I don't have it. I have clans and tech shuffle modes, but not corps. Can anyone confirm what is and isn't included in Deluxe? Google is failing me Seems to be: quote:- Sid Meier's Civilization VI quote:Maya & Gran Colombia Pack May 21, 2020
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Nov 5, 2023 18:00
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Shuffle and Barbarian clans were both free updates, the other game modes are from the Frontier Pass, which is a series of mini-expansions that each introduce a new civ and game mode. I'm assuming the Deluxe edition only gave content up to Gathering Storm, the second major expansion.
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Nov 5, 2023 18:05
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 Look at these yields. This is on Deity, so I have no idea how I managed to grab Etemenanki in my second city.
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Nov 5, 2023 22:46
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did unique units always lose their uniqueness when they upgrade? i’m playing nubia i think it is? ancient archer unit with 3 sight upgrades to xbow and only has 2 sight. i think i remember civ 5 keeping those unique attributes, civ 6 near launch as well but maybe that was a mod? seems real stupid either way
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Nov 7, 2023 09:10
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harrygomm posted:did unique units always lose their uniqueness when they upgrade? i’m playing nubia i think it is? ancient archer unit with 3 sight upgrades to xbow and only has 2 sight. i think i remember civ 5 keeping those unique attributes, civ 6 near launch as well but maybe that was a mod? seems real stupid either way civ6 indeed needs a mod for that https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2444029678
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Nov 7, 2023 12:41
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Civ V was really weird about what did or did not get carried on from upgrading unique units, sometimes it was a unique promotion that would carry on forever, sometimes it was a unit feature that would disappear, and sometimes the unit would change into a whole different unit type and some promotions would be useless while others would only be obtainable that way. VI streamlined the whole thing, so now everything would be locked to the UU specifically and be lost on an upgrade, but it'd always stay within the promotion tree so horse archers would become crossbowmen and keep all their non-unique promotions instead of becoming knights or whatever and make all their ranged strength bonuses obsolete. Pretty sure it was like that from day one. It's a boring solution, but it's a sensible one.
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Nov 7, 2023 13:19
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Are there any mods that prevent Barbarians from building up huge forces? I keep having games where my exploration units (not just recon units) stumble upon a single Barbarian unit they can easily take, but get swept by a horde hiding just outside the fog before they can do anything. If I survive and manage to gently caress off they don't really give chase but they do seem to build up even more units and then go erase a city. Funny when it's someone else, especially a warmonger, but less funny when it's me. It feels like this is just bad Barb AI intersecting with bad Civ and City-State AI that doesn't tend to finish the job on Barb camps but gets close enough to prompt them to spawn counter units. I'm not asking for a miracle, just like a cap on the number of units a camp can have at any given time or something along those lines. Or should I just use Clans mode where it seems like they tend to convert before this happens?
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Nov 7, 2023 20:23
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poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:Are there any mods that prevent Barbarians from building up huge forces? I keep having games where my exploration units (not just recon units) stumble upon a single Barbarian unit they can easily take, but get swept by a horde hiding just outside the fog before they can do anything. If I survive and manage to gently caress off they don't really give chase but they do seem to build up even more units and then go erase a city. Funny when it's someone else, especially a warmonger, but less funny when it's me. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2492747881
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Nov 7, 2023 20:31
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Fister Roboto posted:That's super unlucky but it's still theoretically survivable. Definitely get slingers out faster. My typical starting build is 2x scout and a slinger, and if I get an early barb invasion I beeline the slinger. Builders and settlers have only marginal utility that early on. A builder gets you at best +3 food/production and cost 50 production, so it takes 17 turns to break even, and that's assuming you even have tiles worth using them on. A settler costs you a population point and 80 production, and unless you're going to be settling it on a really good spot (like a natural wonder), is also not going to pay off any time soon. Slingers usually pay off immediately by keeping you save from barbs and hostile AI, and more scouts give you a better chance of avoiding the invasions and also finding good stuff. Also, super early barbs are much less of a threat than they look because they cant conquer/destroy your capitol, unlike your other cities. You can just turtle up and let them wear themselves out slamming against your city while you build that slinger. Worst case is they pillage your improvements, but you still have builder to repair them But also, super badluck to have them generate horse archers, thats the absolute worst thing you can roll from barbs The Glumslinger fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Nov 7, 2023 |
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Nov 7, 2023 20:33
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The Glumslinger posted:But also, super badluck to have them generate horse archers, thats the absolute worst thing you can roll from barbs The ghosts of about a thousand kings are nodding gloomily at this post. Tree Bucket fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Nov 8, 2023 |
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Nov 8, 2023 00:55
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I started a game the other day and got a notification that another player had been defeated. On turn 2. How is that possible
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Nov 8, 2023 01:16
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Microplastics posted:I started a game the other day and got a notification that another player had been defeated. On turn 2. How is that possible This can happen when their settler gets destroyed by a natural disaster like a flood before they are able to lay down their first city. The Glumslinger posted:Also, super early barbs are much less of a threat than they look because they cant conquer/destroy your capitol, unlike your other cities. You can just turtle up and let them wear themselves out slamming against your city while you build that slinger. Worst case is they pillage your improvements, but you still have builder to repair them This is less meaningful than you'd think, when you are getting flooded by barbs like I was even if they are butting heads with my capital it still prevents me from being able to expand and boxes in my units when the AI can get a massive leg up on me. Irregardless, the other issue was that it wasn't even the only wave, there was another flood of horse riding barbarians that came from the north and captured both my second settler and my builder while I was trying to move them away from the first crowd, at that point I was going to be way too far behind for the game to be worth bothering with.
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Nov 8, 2023 03:05
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khwarezm posted:This can happen when their settler gets destroyed by a natural disaster like a flood before they are able to lay down their first city. Aha that makes sense. I thought it might have been some barbarian shenanigans
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Nov 8, 2023 07:32
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khwarezm posted:This can happen when their settler gets destroyed by a natural disaster like a flood before they are able to lay down their first city. This should create a special artifact site
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Nov 8, 2023 07:43
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Goa Tse-tung posted:Customization VI is incredibly powerful (probably the most important Civ 6 mod ever imo), Barbarians is one of the options Thanks, I'll check that out! Microplastics posted:Aha that makes sense. I thought it might have been some barbarian shenanigans With the mods I use I sometimes get a barbarian encampment one tile into the fog of war turn 1. Obviously it's a reroll but just know that your mods may have barbmurdered a dude for no reason.
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Nov 8, 2023 11:18
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Look at this disgusting Khmer start. It's so good I feel the need to make a clickbait thumbnail for it. I'm gonna get completely barb hosed, aren't I?
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Nov 10, 2023 17:41
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What mod are you using to show yields on the pins? And what's the 11 and 4 on the city's pop number (and what mod is that, too)?
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Nov 10, 2023 19:03
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Maybe always playing on Marathon makes a difference but I always opt for an early slinger over a scout at the start these days to help against early threats, I always want 3 anyway to upgrade into archers for the eureka and slingers are still a lot better at looking around than scouts are at fighting (or having relevant upgrades).
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Nov 10, 2023 19:48
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Yea Khmer's pretty disgusting and it's hard to gently caress up. A complete shithole of a location suddenly becomes a 15+ pop city in a blink just cuz there's a sniff of a river. The yields on the pins are Detailed Map Tacks, one of the better mods out there imo. I like the pacing on Marathon as I think it's too hard to levarage a tech spike / UU normally, but consequently the barb mechanics are brutal and it's not uncommon to see the computer player get rolled by them. Even with all that said, Civ6 scouts are so bad, slingers forever.
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Nov 10, 2023 20:36
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Judgy Fucker posted:What mod are you using to show yields on the pins? And what's the 11 and 4 on the city's pop number (and what mod is that, too)? Detailed map tacks mod for the pins. Efb. Still definitely worth installing
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Nov 10, 2023 20:39
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Marathon can really be a gamble on higher difficulties, because if you start too close to another AI, they can easily take your capitol before you can even build your first scout.
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Nov 10, 2023 22:17
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I can't believe anyone even plays on marathon speed. The game speed adjustments are wack as hell. Compared to standard, on marathon, units move/attack three times as much, and certain game timers (like interacting with barb clans, or governor establishing) happens three times more often. The units thing is really the big one - if someone declares war on you and steps a massive army out of the fog, you can't build up to defend it - you're just hosed. Getting spotted by barbs is now much, much worse. On the plus side, you'll explore the entire world by the mid-classical age. You get to reset your trade routes three times as often. The lag between making a settler and settling your city is three times shorter. Etc. It really feels like Firaxis didn't think about it or test it at all (but hey, that's like 90% of the systems in the game).
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Nov 10, 2023 22:37
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Sorry I haven't used marathon, I've enjoyed the middle option between the two, forget what it's called. It's 1.5x slowness iirc? I just think tech blazes past a smidge too fast for me, the way units stumble over each other means that any actual warfare (or religious stuff, or walking rockstars/UU's across the map, or even farking using builders) is prohibitively expensive. You'll have totally won a war, but an entire era will pass before you knock over their last city and walk your army back home. If units had base 3 or 4 movement speed I'd never have looked at it. It further separates things into tactical or strategic decisions. Like the commitment to make a builder is still a big decision in your build order, but (eg) having it spend 1 turn hiding from a barb isn't as crippling.
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Nov 10, 2023 22:47
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Fister Roboto posted:Marathon can really be a gamble on higher difficulties, because if you start too close to another AI, they can easily take your capitol before you can even build your first scout. Not building scouts to begin with aside, I don't think I've ever have it happen quite that fast. I remember some hopeless-feeling AI rushes but there's almost always enough time to make one or two units, and the AI is miserably bad at warfare so more often than not it's enough to fend them off. If anything it's often a great thing to happen, since that way they exhaust their starting armies on the offensive and have nothing left to defend their own cities when you counterattack. DontMockMySmock posted:I can't believe anyone even plays on marathon speed. The game speed adjustments are wack as hell. Compared to standard, on marathon, units move/attack three times as much, and certain game timers (like interacting with barb clans, or governor establishing) happens three times more often. The units thing is really the big one - if someone declares war on you and steps a massive army out of the fog, you can't build up to defend it - you're just hosed. Getting spotted by barbs is now much, much worse. On the plus side, you'll explore the entire world by the mid-classical age. You get to reset your trade routes three times as often. The lag between making a settler and settling your city is three times shorter. Etc. It really feels like Firaxis didn't think about it or test it at all (but hey, that's like 90% of the systems in the game). We've played 2-player civ pretty much exclusively on Marathon since like, Civ III (I think Civ III had it already?) so anything faster feels way too "weightless". Not being able to do stuff like creating or upgrading armies out of nothing after a war declaration is one of the main draws for us, same as techs and other things it means there's more emphasis on planning and making decisions ahead of time instead of reactively. Now if unlike us you care about actually finishing games with any kind of consistency then obviously you should never play on Marathon. 
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Nov 10, 2023 23:09
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| # ? May 16, 2024 09:18 |
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I always try to keep my scouts alive, because they do get a passive trickle of experience just from uncovering the map, and turn into killer units if you ever get the +20 combat strength promotion. They're not the best endgame combat unit but deploying the invisible sniper paratroopers past the enemy line and burning down all their crops and libraries is the most satisfying form of modern warfare in my book.
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Nov 10, 2023 23:16
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