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Kith posted:Ah yes, this mission. Also the fact that Human WC3 is explicitly detailing Arthas' fall, while SC2 Terran is ultimately a redemption arc--either with alcoholic Jim or the version we ended up getting. Stratholme is Arthas' point of no return. You can debate endlessly if Uther or Jaina could have done better and saved people but that doesn't matter in the end, because Arthas has already decided they can't be saved and no one can change his mind. He's going to kill them all, head north, and swan-dive right into Nerzhul's trap. In my opinion, it highlights one of the cardinal sins of SC2: the illusion of choice. Choice was en-vogue in game design when SC2 came out. This was the era when Mass Effect and Dragon Age and Alpha Protocol and all these other games were loving SCREAMING "choices matter" at every chance they got. IMO, Blizzard got caught up in this hype as well and their narrative ends up suffering for it. I think the only choice I actually like and feels like it belongs in SC2 is the last one, and that one I always pick the same answer because it suits my style of gameplay.
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Nov 4, 2023 22:25
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Also, the other version of this mission is quite possibly the worst contender for a mission being designed to show off a new unit in the entire game. Entirely nonsensical enemy base designs that just so happen to have weak points that a long range sir superiority fighter can neuter, and high ground that is just in range of your mission targets. And the Viking also happens to outrange the only actual threat in the entire mission.
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Nov 4, 2023 22:40
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Fajita Queen posted:Vikings are the best answer to Colossus in TvP, and I believe they're a solid counter to Seige Tanks in TvT as well? The siege tank counter is technically positioning and map control if you're playing bio. The idea being that if your opponent is remaining static, they're losing because you have map control and can expand and harass their expansions without consequence. If they respond to your aggression, then you can punish them when they unsiege the tanks and take advantage of the transformation time. And even if they don't, they still have the onus to attack into you to win, so you can pick your own ground for the fight or set up a contain, and if they never take the fight, you can just set up infinity expansions and roll over them with superior production because they turtled up and can't contest your economy. In general, siege tanks are 'countered' in the traditional sense by anything that can run up and get under their guns in siege mode. Zerglings, banelings, zealots, marine-medivac drops, literally any air unit that shoots down, and I suppose technically vikings. The problem with this is that anyone using unsupported siege tanks deserves to have them all killed by the first thing that thinks to move command right up to it. Their strength comes from the MMM ball sitting in front of them, or the mosh pit of Thors and Hellbats, or anything else the enemy has to deal with before they can deal with the tanks. Which is where the positioning problem in TvT comes in--TvP and TvZ all have clear recipes to deal with the units protecting the tanks, but the mirror match doesn't. If you try to medivac drop supported tanks, the marines or Thors will shoot your medivacs down. Same with Vikings. If you catch the tanks unsupported, you just won the positioning war and your bio ball will do the job just as well as any fancy medivac or viking micro. I'm discounting Liberators, Banshees, and Battlecruisers here because I haven't played in a while and the moment a TvT spots Libs or BCs in force, I'd expect them to be shifting their tank production into viking production.
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Nov 4, 2023 22:40
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JackSplater posted:Also, the other version of this mission is quite possibly the worst contender for a mission being designed to show off a new unit in the entire game. Entirely nonsensical enemy base designs that just so happen to have weak points that a long range sir superiority fighter can neuter, and high ground that is just in range of your mission targets. And the Viking also happens to outrange the only actual threat in the entire mission. I dunno, the firebat mission where not building firebats was the correct option is worse to me. It depends on your definition of worst, but "contrived scenario where your unit is good" seems better than "your unit is so trash not even the mission can save it"
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Nov 5, 2023 02:19
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Eh, I don't really see a problem in the Viking mission being contrived to have Vikings be awesome. Because Vikings are still really loving good outside of that mission.
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Nov 5, 2023 02:50
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Intermission 22 Cinematic: Infested  Soooooooo... I wonder how Hanson's been taking the loss of everyone she's ever known and loved?      What this scene leaves is weird. It removes the zerg and protoss research samples, plus the Adjutant we got from The Great Train Robbery, but leaves behind the orb. The artifacts would normally be here too, but Valerian takes the set after Maw of the Void.       Oh, that's bad.     How considerate of the now-infested Hanson to take the orb off the little display stand before she spewed unknown fluids all over it.   Oh christ!          Jim starts looking around, while Hanson can be heard moving in the vents.                   Hope you enjoy the protoss research, you monster!   For once, Jim starting the intermission with a drink in his hand is understandable. >Examine Friend of the Protoss.  >Watch news.       >Talk to Tychus.    It was our own mess to clean up. I don't give a drat what the protoss think.>Talk to Tosh.   Take my advice - keep it simple. No attachments, no strings. Just you against the universe. Not your fault. Did you ever stop and think what'd happen if all those refugees from Agria had gone to the core worlds? That Hanson was a honey trap right from the start.Some people take this to mean that Hanson was some kind of zerg plant that was always going to go crazy, but I don't buy it simply because that implies a level a subtlety I don't see coming from modern Blizzard. I think she was just overly idealistic, ended up playing the 'test the experimental cure on yourself' card and had it backfire. >Check Mercenaries.  And with that, we now have the final Merc.  Devil Dogs do not interact.  And despite the Everything that just happened five hours ago, Stetmann has absolutely nothing to say. As always.  The Viking is also the final unit to show up in the Armory. >Talk to Swann.   There had to be a better answer, though. Maybe if we caught it earlier... Look, if the protoss with all their tech, psionics and big freakin' alien brains couldn't do anything for them - there ain't nothing we coulda done. Sometimes life's just rough that way.>Examine Viking.  >Use Armory Console (for the final time).  The Viking's upgrades double down on the anti-air, with the first being added splash damage to help deal with Mutalisks.  And the other giving +2 air range, putting it at a massive 11 range.  Since this is the absolute last bit of money I'll be getting, I decide to get some niche picks and grab a Missile Turret upgrade.   And for funsies I get the Medivac heal and Firebat attack size upgrade.    With Haven out of the way, all that's left is Char.  But not before another trip to the Non-Canon Zone.
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Nov 5, 2023 03:28
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Fun Fact: That poster behind Tosh is of Hanson.
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Nov 5, 2023 03:44
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While the cure failed, the result was interesting enough. Though, don't think there'll be many volunteers for the 'Independent(?) Infested-Terrain' procedure, though. 
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Nov 5, 2023 03:51
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Kith posted:Fun Fact: That poster behind Tosh is of Hanson. ...stay loving classy, Blizzard.
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Nov 5, 2023 03:56
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also Hanson's Zerg cure was just horse de-wormerBisbyWorl posted:
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Nov 5, 2023 04:02
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I think what Tosh is suggesting is less that Hanson herself was personally the trap, and more that her group of refugees was the trap. It was her people that got infested on Meinhoff - assuming the seeds weren't planted as early as Agria. Tosh isn't talking about Hanson herself being a zerg plant that was going to go crazy, his idea is "what if the refugees carrying that virus but not showing symptoms yet had gone to core worlds, or Korhal itself?" I appreciate that Tychus is genuinely trying to cheer Raynor up here, too. Says he's not going to kick Raynor when he's down, when he might otherwise tease him about the Doctor's obvious crush on him, and draws on the fact that, while he doesn't understand it, Raynor obviously has a good relationship with the Protoss in an attempt to cheer him up... which maybe kinda backfires since their presence forced him to make the choice in the first place. But drat it, he's trying. Tychus may have some ~secrets~ right now, but he still genuinely considers Jimmy his friend.
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Nov 5, 2023 04:31
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supposedly there was a one-liner cut to end that cutscene, of Raynor saying "what is it with the women in my life" works without it? but if it feels like the cutscene ends a little abruptly, that's why.
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Nov 5, 2023 04:52
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Good thing Hanson wasn't a BW-style infested terran, that would have made a mess of the Hyperion.
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Nov 5, 2023 06:24
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I'll hold my commentary until after we traverse the non-canon zone, but it boils down to what I said about the meta reality of SC2 bending to the choices of the player.
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Nov 5, 2023 06:51
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Warmachine posted:The siege tank counter is technically positioning and map control if you're playing bio. The idea being that if your opponent is remaining static, they're losing because you have map control and can expand and harass their expansions without consequence. If they respond to your aggression, then you can punish them when they unsiege the tanks and take advantage of the transformation time. And even if they don't, they still have the onus to attack into you to win, so you can pick your own ground for the fight or set up a contain, and if they never take the fight, you can just set up infinity expansions and roll over them with superior production because they turtled up and can't contest your economy. I stopped playing before liberators became a thing, but I remember thinking that they are weird addition. Siege tank but flying? Why
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Nov 5, 2023 10:06
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I just want to point out that so far, the only infested anythings we've seen that feel like they look reasonably non-weird and retain most of their pre-infestation appearance are Kerrigan and Hanson, which gives a certain vibe of "infested boobs? we gotta make sure those stay intact" to Blizzard's story choices.
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Nov 5, 2023 10:32
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I really like this set of scenes, because it shows off the different relationships everybody has with Raynor and their own different personalities - and all of the responses seem pretty true to the characters. BlazetheInferno posted:I think what Tosh is suggesting is less that Hanson herself was personally the trap, and more that her group of refugees was the trap.
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Nov 5, 2023 14:19
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It's kind of a weird thing because there's the "they must all be purged" bit, but then there's a bunch of colonists happily sitting right in the middle of a giant zerg force that you're trying to save right up until the moment the big barf boy comes online and tentacles burst from the building. It's my preferred choice because the one we're about to see is just dumb, but this side of the choice always felt a little confused on what they're actually going for here.
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Nov 5, 2023 14:23
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PurpleXVI posted:I just want to point out that so far, the only infested anythings we've seen that feel like they look reasonably non-weird and retain most of their pre-infestation appearance are Kerrigan and Hanson, which gives a certain vibe of "infested boobs? we gotta make sure those stay intact" to Blizzard's story choices. "Infested" Duran and Infested Stukov remained identifiable, too. Somebody fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Nov 5, 2023 14:31
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Those are all psionics. Does that mean Hanson is also psionic?
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Nov 5, 2023 14:49
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Her brain isn't magic, just splattered across the lab.
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Nov 5, 2023 15:18
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Eh, Hanson's just a random colonist. Look how quickly Jim took her down. She may have retained a few more human-looking features than some, but I really don't consider her any different from any other "Infested Terran" random melee mini-minion that swarm you in missions like Outbreak.
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Nov 5, 2023 15:23
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This dialogue changes when the mission is done after Media Blitz - if you play it before that (as most people would) you instead get this: quote:Kate Lockwell: In other words, the General dodged the question. If Dominion forces fire on unarmed civilians-
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Nov 5, 2023 16:33
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I'm honestly impressed that this early mission is one of the ones they changed for that possibility.
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Nov 5, 2023 16:47
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goes to show that delaying haven for as long as possible is the canon option
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Nov 5, 2023 16:50
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...Are her glasses still on?
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Nov 5, 2023 16:53
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well yeah, she needs those to see
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Nov 5, 2023 17:10
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Gun Jam posted:...Are her glasses still on?
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Nov 5, 2023 17:11
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The zerg health plan does not cover laser eye surgery.
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Nov 5, 2023 17:12
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Gun Jam posted:...Are her glasses still on? The Zerg swarm has been two years away from including LASIK coverage on their insurance policy for the past eight years and counting
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Nov 5, 2023 17:12
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BisbyWorl posted:The zerg health plan does not cover laser eye surgery. it DOES cover eye-lasers, though
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Nov 5, 2023 17:18
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Regalingualius posted:The Zerg swarm has been two years away from including LASIK coverage on their insurance policy for the past eight years and counting In Kerrigan's defense the only specialists that cover LASIK are the protoss, and they aren't in-network.
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Nov 5, 2023 17:19
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Finally, a horrifying bug-goop monster that appeals to those of us who like glasses girls.
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Nov 5, 2023 17:45
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BisbyWorl posted:In Kerrigan's defense the only specialists that cover LASIK are the protoss, and they aren't in-network.
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Nov 5, 2023 18:01
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disposablewords posted:Finally, a glasses girl that appeals to those of us who like horrifying bug-goop monsters. Fixed it 
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Nov 5, 2023 18:09
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The monster fuckers are coming from inside the thread.
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Nov 5, 2023 21:07
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Warmachine posted:The monster fuckers are coming from inside the thread. Please let's not have a repeat of what happened in Cyth's thread where someone insisted on unwanted levels of detail about what turned them on despite a remarkable number of "please stop" warnings.
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Nov 5, 2023 21:23
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The only monsters this thread welcomes are monster trucks 
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Nov 5, 2023 21:26
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Isn't Man the greatest monster of all?
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Nov 5, 2023 21:30
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No, that's Blizzard's writing team.
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Nov 5, 2023 21:43
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