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Give d&d posters an embassy in your FYAD homeland to let them post SYQ.
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Nov 6, 2023 20:49
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Nothing is improved by more forum war nonsense.
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Nov 6, 2023 20:50
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Gumball Gumption posted:Give d&d posters an embassy in your FYAD homeland to let them post SYQ. That is impossible, as I have no control over FYAD, and FYAD thinks C-SPAM and D&D are both, erm... various words I ought not say.
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Nov 6, 2023 20:55
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Koos Group posted:That is impossible, as I have no control over FYAD, and FYAD thinks C-SPAM and D&D are both, erm... various words I ought not say. Tell me more about the FYAD hivemind
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Nov 6, 2023 21:34
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Feedback 1: Stop using the rule numbers as reasons in the Leper's Colony. Aside from being a really poor way to communicate the reason, the rules can and will change, so using static references is just a terrible way to log these issues. Feedback 2: Fister Roboto posted:Yeah I'd really like to know how many of these supposed subject matter experts have actually been driven off by the vile CSPAM trolls as opposed to just losing interest or any other explanation. I imagine a lot of people left when the lowtax domestic abuse poo poo came out. I can choose to either spend a bunch of time attempting to correct misinformation posted in areas that I am considered an SME, or I can close the browser tab and make an ice cream sundae. It took a while for me to realize how much less annoying hot fudge is. Koos Group posted:I am as sad as you to see any expert go, as it hurts D&D's ability to be informative, which is one of its top goals. If someone has a wealth of knowledge or expertise they're sharing, I try to be especially lenient toward them and harsh toward anyone who breaks a rule in a way targeting them. I'm not sure what else I can do, and it's not helpful for you to say "enforce the rules" because I already believe I am doing so. I wrote all of them my dang self with the intent of being enforced. I really don't think you can fix that with rules, because there's no workable rule against spreading misinformation or annoying other posters.
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Nov 6, 2023 22:22
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Main Paineframe posted:Honestly I think D&D is pretty much fine now. Yeah there's like no emergent tire fire condition going on like was the default condition before, even getting inside medium range of the presidential elections. Not a lot to do but perseverate about really pretty minimally invasive issues even if Electoralism Chat is probably getting brined in poo poo takes from dictatorship simps or something Most of the huge issues got hosed off by nown tbh
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Nov 6, 2023 22:29
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Kalit posted:You know what, you've convinced me that SYQ is fine. Endorsed. Let's see what you got.
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Nov 6, 2023 22:43
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rules and have a rotating thread IK who's not [also] a CSPAM poster. Then we can make fun of CSPAM posters who's bloodlusting for the genocide of Ukranians or whatever and then chain probe anyone who wants to 
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Its worth noting that the D&D discord did have a goon mock channel that became so toxic it had to be shut down, and also the D&D discord plotted to remove mods they didnt like. Every accusation about external coordination is a confession, because the most miserable posters of D&D have absolutely done the same. They imagine themselves brave fighters for truth and freedom against an unrelenting unruly mob
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Nov 6, 2023 23:04
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Missing Donut posted:Feedback 1: Stop using the rule numbers as reasons in the Leper's Colony. Aside from being a really poor way to communicate the reason, the rules can and will change, so using static references is just a terrible way to log these issues. No, keep doing this. It's hilarious and only 3 people in all of the forums care or even know what the gently caress specific rule they're referring to, lol.
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Nov 6, 2023 23:15
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Nix Panicus posted:Its worth noting that the D&D discord did have a goon mock channel that became so toxic it had to be shut down, and also the D&D discord plotted to remove mods they didnt like. I must reiterate that I would like feedback to be about current issues and not old drama.
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Nov 6, 2023 23:16
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Missing Donut posted:Feedback 1: Stop using the rule numbers as reasons in the Leper's Colony. Aside from being a really poor way to communicate the reason, the rules can and will change, so using static references is just a terrible way to log these issues. God yes this it’s absolutely arcane
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Nov 6, 2023 23:31
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Bwee posted:A "rival subforum" that's allowed to make fun of D&D posters without those posters being allowed to do the same or (realistically) defend themselves is kinda messed up imo A common misconception, anybody can post in any forum. Different forums have different standards of behavior, the solution to users who want to do that xyz behavior isn’t to change their homeforum. It’s go to the appropriate forum, otherwise you are just diluting the spirit of each forum.
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Nov 6, 2023 23:39
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Homeless Friend posted:A common misconception, anybody can post in any forum. Different forums have different standards of behavior, the solution to users who want to do that xyz behavior isn’t to change their homeforum. It’s go to the appropriate forum, otherwise you are just diluting the spirit of each forum.
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Nov 6, 2023 23:45
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Homeless Friend posted:A common misconception, anybody can post in any forum. Different forums have different standards of behavior, the solution to users who want to do that xyz behavior isn’t to change their homeforum. It’s go to the appropriate forum, otherwise you are just diluting the spirit of each forum. This comes across as disingenuous. Are you suggesting D&D posters, if they want to have a complain about CSPAM and their digs at them, instead go to CSPAM to do so? If you’re going to shut down the idea then just do that, don’t make up this obviously nonsense scenario as an outlet.
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Nov 6, 2023 23:52
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Jakabite posted:This comes across as disingenuous. Are you suggesting D&D posters, if they want to have a complain about CSPAM and their digs at them, instead go to CSPAM to do so? If you’re going to shut down the idea then just do that, don’t make up this obviously nonsense scenario as an outlet. Yes. Id make a cspam mock thread in cspam. The “our posters are dumb as gently caress” has been on the upward trend since the 2019 drama cleared out a lot of forum war folks
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Nov 6, 2023 23:55
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CSPAM already has multiple CSPAM mock threads so you don't even need to make a new thread
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Nov 6, 2023 23:57
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Jakabite posted:This comes across as disingenuous. Are you suggesting D&D posters, if they want to have a complain about CSPAM and their digs at them, instead go to CSPAM to do so? If you’re going to shut down the idea then just do that, don’t make up this obviously nonsense scenario as an outlet. It's really not that scary.
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Nov 6, 2023 23:59
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Jakabite posted:This comes across as disingenuous. Are you suggesting D&D posters, if they want to have a complain about CSPAM and their digs at them, instead go to CSPAM to do so? If you’re going to shut down the idea then just do that, don’t make up this obviously nonsense scenario as an outlet. What do you think would happen there that would be worse than what happens here when you post? You can actually tell the genocidal weirdos to gently caress off there.
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Nov 7, 2023 00:07
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Jakabite posted:This comes across as disingenuous. Are you suggesting D&D posters, if they want to have a complain about CSPAM and their digs at them, instead go to CSPAM to do so? If you’re going to shut down the idea then just do that, don’t make up this obviously nonsense scenario as an outlet. do you not read our own feedback thread lol
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Nov 7, 2023 00:07
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Gumball Gumption posted:What do you think would happen there that would be worse than what happens here when you post? You can actually tell the genocidal weirdos to gently caress off there. I don't read CSPAM but I've seen probes in the lepers colony on people for calling out Russia for the horrible poo poo it's doing in Ukraine so I'm not sure how true all that is. Also the idea of posting with a bunch of posters who've been reading and reposting my boring posts for years obsessively, who have sent me many many harassment PMs and who name drop me directly in SAD as some sort of evil D&D mastermind despite my maybe 20ish posts there a month is not appealing in the slightest. I just want to post about politics with people who also want to post about politics and not someone who's being a poo poo so he can run back to his buddies and tell everyone how much he owned the libs.
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Nov 7, 2023 00:15
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socialsecurity posted:I don't read CSPAM but I've seen probes in the lepers colony on people for calling out Russia for the horrible poo poo it's doing in Ukraine so I'm not sure how true all that is. Also the idea of posting with a bunch of posters who've been reading and reposting my boring posts for years obsessively, who have sent me many many harassment PMs and who name drop me directly in SAD as some sort of evil D&D mastermind despite my maybe 20ish posts there a month is not appealing in the slightest. Which probes are these, that you've seen? Also, D&D has a freep thread, so you're familiar with the core concept.
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Nov 7, 2023 00:17
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Buck Wildman posted:do you not read our own feedback thread lol No. My assumption would be that it would instead be full of CSPAM posters, is that not correct? I don’t mind either forum to be honest, though I find CSPAMs hyper-online vibe quite off-putting, but it is noticeable how mods and admins have consistently acted in favour of the CSPAM side of things. This doesn’t sound to be the thread for that, but this seems like a weird suggestion.
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Nov 7, 2023 00:20
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Jakabite posted:This comes across as disingenuous. Are you suggesting D&D posters, if they want to have a complain about CSPAM and their digs at them, instead go to CSPAM to do so? If you’re going to shut down the idea then just do that, don’t make up this obviously nonsense scenario as an outlet. Jakabite I haven't seen too many of your posts but from what I have I am being completely sincere when I say that if you can handle a little (mostly) good natured teasing here and there I think you would find CSPAM pretty friendly and accommodating. I mean if you already believe that most cspammers are dogbrained losers you'll fit right in.
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Nov 7, 2023 00:21
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:Jakabite I haven't seen too many of your posts but from what I have I am being completely sincere when I say that if you can handle a little (mostly) good natured teasing here and there I think you would find CSPAM pretty friendly and accommodating. I mean if you already belief that most cspammers are dogbrained losers you'll fit right in. Aw, you cutie. I have been enjoying the IP thread in CSPAM a lot more. I don’t read anything in D&D apart from UKMT to be honest, i just found the swapping of my precious gibbus musk thread annoying. That and some of the tanglier vibes but maybe I will grace CSPAM with some of my fabulous posting one day
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Nov 7, 2023 00:24
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Foxrunsecurity posted:I don't think that a level of paranoia that would lead someone to believe posts they made in public being blind quoted for a chuckle in another part of the same forums means scary authoritarians are coming to get them or are is a sign of creeping fascism is at all healthy and an environment leading to that mindset should be discouraged. Leper's colony posted:Strawmanning, though only the part about creeping fascism, as someone did actually say SYQ could lead to authoritarians going after people irl. User loses posting privileges for 6 hours. My feedback: irl lol.
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Nov 7, 2023 00:27
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Jakabite posted:Aw, you cutie. I have been enjoying the IP thread in CSPAM a lot more. I don’t read anything in D&D apart from UKMT to be honest, i just found the swapping of my precious gibbus musk thread annoying. That and some of the tanglier vibes but maybe I will grace CSPAM with some of my fabulous posting one day peace.... is possible...... 
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Nov 7, 2023 00:29
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Nix Panicus posted:Which probes are these, that you've seen? I don't think this line of questioning will be particularly fruitful but here you go: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=4016635&pagenumber=2034&perpage=40#post533154281
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Nov 7, 2023 00:32
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socialsecurity posted:I don't read CSPAM but I've seen probes in the lepers colony on people for calling out Russia for the horrible poo poo it's doing in Ukraine so I'm not sure how true all that is. Also the idea of posting with a bunch of posters who've been reading and reposting my boring posts for years obsessively, who have sent me many many harassment PMs and who name drop me directly in SAD as some sort of evil D&D mastermind despite my maybe 20ish posts there a month is not appealing in the slightest. Understandable. I do think if someone asked me why I prefer posting in CSPAM it would be almost the exact same answer but with the roles reversed.
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Nov 7, 2023 00:35
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socialsecurity posted:I just want to post about politics with people who also want to post about politics and not someone who's being a poo poo so he can run back to his buddies and tell everyone how much he owned the libs. Your already doing that, this same behavior of having to check what some guy making fun of them is doing is what drove the forum warriors insane in 2019 re: fyad. Forums i don’t care about might as well not exist. I delete all pms.
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Nov 7, 2023 00:38
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Feedback: Perhaps some people in this thread might feel happier and more peaceful if they had CSPAM removed from their list of viewable forums (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 7, 2023 00:39
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This is not a thread for discussing the moderation of cspam. Take it to PMs, SAD, or cspam.
Baronash fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Nov 7, 2023 |
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Nov 7, 2023 00:41
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Koos, you seem to be replying to most suggestions with "No," "Not my area," or "We totally do that." If you're not going to accept anything people are saying, why ask for feedback? What actionable feedback have you accepted from past posts? My feedback: There's too much leniency for users that are trolling, whether they're posting in good faith or not. They know there's been a reaction in the past, they know there will be a reaction in the future, and they don't care. And it leads to endless derails as people take the bait or try to refute it.
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Nov 7, 2023 01:40
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Maera Sior posted:Koos, you seem to be replying to most suggestions with "No," "Not my area," or "We totally do that." If you're not going to accept anything people are saying, why ask for feedback? What actionable feedback have you accepted from past posts? I can’t reconcile “trolling” and “posting in good faith” here, I kinda thought definitionally those two things are mutually exclusive. What does “good faith trolling” look like to you, what’s the heuristic for identifying that?
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Nov 7, 2023 01:45
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I'm gonna be totally honest, I have no idea what good faith/bad faith means, at least in terms of how it gets commonly used here. To me it's kind of like how "gaslighting" has lost its meaning because so many people just use it as another word for lying. What does a bad faith argument look like?
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Nov 7, 2023 01:53
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Maera Sior posted:Koos, you seem to be replying to most suggestions with "No," "Not my area," or "We totally do that." If you're not going to accept anything people are saying, why ask for feedback? What actionable feedback have you accepted from past posts? It is not accurate that I don't accept (here meaning agree with, consider, or act on) anything people are saying. Here is a sampling of times I have done so in this thread. Koos Group posted:Alright, I'll try leaving it open longer than usual this time. Maybe not an entire week, but into the middle of the next work week so those who are busy on the weekends still have a chance. Koos Group posted:I agree that this was something of a mistake and will speak to Rigel about it, and clarify what whataboutism is for the purpose of D&D rules to the thread. Koos Group posted:It appears that post was handled by a different mod, and no explanation was given for not acting on the report (this is normal due to the high number of reports we receive). MEMRI had not been discussed during the course of the current conflict as being unreliable until after Mister Fister posted it, so that can be considered an honest mistake, and now that the truth has come to light others who post it without explaining themselves will be probed for not acknowledging rebuttals/ongoing debate. His second source does clearly seem to violate the rule against Twitter randos, so I will consider your posting of it here an appeal and punish it accordingly, with a warning to use better sources in general. Koos Group posted:I'll take a look and do that if it seems necessary, though the rule on the first page of I/P seemed explicit enough. Koos Group posted:This may be true. I do get in the habit of starting at 6 for a new type of offense and might need to more carefully consider how intentionally naughty someone is being and how much damage it does to a thread. Koos Group posted:Thank you, that is something to consider. My intent here is simply to avoid glorifying violence or promoting desensitization to it. It can be difficult to judge whether someone is posting something violent to remind us of the horror of war, or because they enjoy sharing something sickening. But your reasoning is part of why violent content isn't banned completely, which some people in SAD have strongly promoted. Koos Group posted:We're on the same page on the mod team that we need to keep that sort of thing from becoming tedious. We still aren't certain whether the best way to do that is with strict enforcement or having a thread for it, but we will take action either way. Koos Group posted:Not a terrible idea, though I'm not sure it would be practical to find a new IK for every new thread. It takes time for mods to clear an IK and for the admins to actually add them. A better system would be to have IKs who handle particular areas, such as world history, US politics, science, et cetera, and for them to handle new threads in their domain. When I say something is not my area, it's because it's because it is about another board I have no power over. That is not a matter of choosing not to accept feedback, as I do not have a choice in the matter. When I say we are already do something, I mean that I agree with the user about what outcome is desirable, and it is already D&D policy and mod intent to reach it. If we come short it is our failure, and in those cases we require specific examples to consider and improve, which is to say, feedback. Maera Sior posted:My feedback: There's too much leniency for users that are trolling, whether they're posting in good faith or not. They know there's been a reaction in the past, they know there will be a reaction in the future, and they don't care. And it leads to endless derails as people take the bait or try to refute it. selec posted:I can’t reconcile “trolling” and “posting in good faith” here, I kinda thought definitionally those two things are mutually exclusive. As defined in D&D rules, trolling does not mean specifically that a user does not believe what they're saying, but is instead about wanting to inflame rather than have a debate. So, if someone were to post something using the phrasing most likely to cause rancor, then leave, that would be considered trolling regardless of whether they believe the thing. Though it's grouped under bad faith even if they do believe it, as the dishonesty is not in presenting an idea they don't believe, but the implicit and false assertion that they are posting it to have a dialogue.
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Nov 7, 2023 02:19
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Koos Group posted:As defined in D&D rules, trolling does not mean specifically that a user does not believe what they're saying, but is instead about wanting to inflame rather than have a debate. So, if someone were to post something using the phrasing most likely to cause rancor, then leave, that would be considered trolling regardless of whether they believe the thing. Though it's grouped under bad faith even if they do believe it, as the dishonesty is not in presenting an idea they don't believe, but the implicit and false assertion that they are posting it to have a dialogue. How often do you think a person should be required to continue posting in order to not qualify as having 'left'? Should I block out a few hours ahead of time? Can I get official Koos feedback on that? E: As an explicit example, I wanted to post that, after hearing the arguments, I agreed with everything said in the USCE thread about voting. Discendo Vox was correct, the democrats were in no way responsible for electing the House Speaker because only those who vote for a candidate hold any responsibility for that candidates election, and everyone else who voted for a candidate who could not possibly win was simply expressing their feelings on the matter. I also wanted to agree with others in the thread that it is not worth the effort to sift through the positions of bad candidates to find the least bad one to support. I agree with all of those things, they were well argued. But, alas, I was probed for 4 days and could not respond. Nix Panicus fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Nov 7, 2023 |
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Nov 7, 2023 02:23
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Maera Sior posted:My feedback: There's too much leniency for users that are trolling, whether they're posting in good faith or not. They know there's been a reaction in the past, they know there will be a reaction in the future, and they don't care. It seems like trolling is defined not by the intention of the poster but by the reception of his post. Interesting.
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Nov 7, 2023 02:29
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Nix Panicus posted:How often do you think a person should be required to continue posting in order to not qualify as having 'left'? Should I block out a few hours ahead of time? Can I get official Koos feedback on that? If all you were going to post was that you agreed that would be white noise cheerleading. But determining if someone is trolling is not just based on whether they make another post, it's a combination of all the things I said. Though even a single follow up post doesn't hurt. Cpt_Obvious posted:It seems like trolling is defined not by the intention of the poster but by the reception of his post. Interesting. As you can see in my previous post, it is not. The rules also acknowledge that having a controversial opinion should not be prima facie evidence that someone is trolling: Koos Group posted:Enforcement of this rule errs on the side of leniency so that posters do not fear they'll be considered trolls just for having a controversial opinion.
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Nov 7, 2023 02:30
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good evening. i hear there is an issue with d&d regulars feeling they lack an outlet to flame c-spam. we now have a dedicated thread for d&d regulars to flame c-spam in, and in which c-spam regulars will not flame you back - under penalty of discipline. i hope this addresses the concerns. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4046728 thank you for the enjoyable thread, koos group (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 7, 2023 02:33
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Koos Group posted:If all you were going to post was that you agreed that would be white noise cheerleading. But determining if someone is trolling is not just based on whether they make another post, it's a combination of all the things I said. Though even a single follow up post doesn't hurt. As a worked example for the class, what would be the correct response you would give that indicates that, after consideration, I fully agree with the arguments made in response to my question so as to avoid white noise cheerleading? Also, to avoid accusations of 'leaving' should I announce my bedtime in the future? I crave excessive specificity to avoid any ruling based on vibes
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Nov 7, 2023 02:50
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