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Are palestinians still starving and drinking ocean water or is some aid getting through?
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Nov 6, 2023 03:10
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Willo567 posted:Are the subs both conventional and nuclear attack subs? An SSGN is dosen't have nuclear weapons, but they are powered by a nuclear power plant. Edit: I'm not seeing in any stories on whether it is an SSBN or an SSGN, but i'm not sure what would be the upside of bringing in an SSBN and announcing it. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-nuclear-submarine-has-arrived-at-the-middle-east-the-pentagon/ar-AA1jqWIf quote:The identity of the submarine was not disclosed and it is not known whether it is one of the four submarines that carry Tomahawk cruise missiles or of the 14 submarines that carry the Trident-II ballistic missiles, but it is still a significant addition to the American deterrence force in the region, and the ability to attack if necessary. gurragadon fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Nov 6, 2023 |
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Nov 6, 2023 03:11
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Main Paineframe posted:And now today he's suspended Amichai Eliyahu from cabinet meetings after making a number of comments that ranged from obvious political blunders to downright genocidal rhetoric. He said that "there is no such thing as uninvolved civilians in Gaza" and that "we wouldn’t hand the Nazis humanitarian aid", he suggested that nuking Gaza shouldn't be ruled out, he stated that the lives of hostages were less important than the lives of soldiers, and he said that Israel should reoccupy and resettle Gaza and that the Palestinian population that would be displaced by that should go to "Ireland or deserts". Real fuckin class act there. This guy's already back in cabinet meetings btw.
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Nov 6, 2023 03:13
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Neo Rasa posted:At least one of the times the IDF decided to massacre more Palestinians this was actually an officially funded part of the IDF's PR. Like "hey gorgeous young Israeli women paint and show off your rear end for the IDF" was a thing on Twitter. 
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Nov 6, 2023 03:31
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Main Paineframe posted:Not a lot of detail out about it yet, but the Palestinian telecoms company says Israel cut off communications in Gaza again: I'm confused with one part of this: "Meanwhile, Netanyahu seems to be getting increasingly frustrated with Otzma Yehudit, who are making basically no effort at all to play along with Israel's PR needs." What do you mean/interpret as Israel's PR needs at this point? Considering the comments were basically something like "we're not that crazy" and that Israel obviously is trying to massage the PR here, but still.
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Nov 6, 2023 04:22
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notwithoutmyanus posted:I'm confused with one part of this: Ben Gvir wasn't trying to downplay violence occurring to an international audience, he was suggesting they intentionally allow the pogroms against Palestinians in the West Bank to continue by turning a blind eye to them. Which was and probably still is the Israeli plan, but Ben Gvir making an rear end of himself outflanks Netanyahu from the right by appearing like the only one to support the pogroms, while Netanyahu has to denounce them. WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Nov 6, 2023 |
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Nov 6, 2023 04:41
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Jaxyon posted:Are palestinians still starving and drinking ocean water or is some aid getting through? water situation last time i had solid info: two to three of the israel pipelines of clean water are functioning at half-ish capacity, one of the major desalination/treatment plants is operational and self-powered, some aid is coming through. situation isn't good but it's not immediately apocalyptically dire food situation: doesn't seem like enough is getting through on a quick skim and that's going to become a problem
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Nov 6, 2023 06:46
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notwithoutmyanus posted:I'm confused with one part of this: Netanyahu wants to maintain the pretense that this is all just a terrorist-busting campaign with heavy weapons like what the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan, rather than ethnic cleansing with some pogroms on the side. For context, Ben-Gvir, as Minister of National Security in charge of the police, has been handing out police weapons to civilians all over Israel, and has promised to supply thousands of guns to the settlers. He's also been doing photo-ops of himself passing out guns at political events. This has quite a few US government figures concerned, given Ben-Gvir's notorious extremism and the skyrocketing levels of violence against Palestinians in the West Bank by gun-toting Israeli civilians in the last few weeks. Now, Israel has also ordered 27,000 assault rifles from US gunmakers in the past month, saying the guns are for police - and that some of them are likely to end up in the hands of these ad-hoc civilian "security squads". This purchase requires the approval of the State Department, and Congress had to be informed of the purchase as well. There's plenty of people in both bodies who are making noise about it because they'd rather not directly supply American weapons to extremist settler pogroms in the West Bank. The Biden administration seems to be happy to let Israel do whatever it wants to Gaza in the name of "fighting Hamas", but they're much more hesitant to endorse aggressive activities in the West Bank where Hamas doesn't have much of a presence. In order to please the US and other international observers, Netanyahu thinks it's crucial to publicly act like settler violence is a serious and important issue that he wants to restrain and prevent at all costs. Meanwhile, Ben-Gvir and his buddies - who are the direct cause of most of this trouble because they're the ones arming the settlers and encouraging aggressive action in the West Bank to begin with, are just playing coy and acting like it's not worth worrying about. Don't mistake any of this for sympathy for Netanyahu, though. He's the one who chose to coalition with Otzma Yehudit, and he's the one who agreed to give a bunch of important positions with actual authority to those genocidal lunatics.
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Nov 6, 2023 07:09
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Main Paineframe posted:For context, Ben-Gvir, as Minister of National Security in charge of the police, has been handing out police weapons to civilians all over Israel, and has promised to supply thousands of guns to the settlers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KICczZ1DyZU&t=1273s
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Nov 6, 2023 09:15
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Those guns sent going to be used on Hamas or other people who fight back. It will be used on Palestine’s and other Israelis.
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Nov 6, 2023 09:46
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https://twitter.com/MazenMahdi/status/1721509190684786986 This have any teeth to it or likely a bluff?
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Nov 6, 2023 14:09
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Willo567 posted:https://twitter.com/MazenMahdi/status/1721509190684786986 Unlikely to be a bluff. *At least* 20% of Jordan's population is Palestinian (and that ratio is only because of the huge influx of Iraqi & Syrian refugees). If Israel does any large scale cleansing, it's going to completely upset the delicate balance and has the opportunity of Arab-springing the Jordanian monarchy (recall some years back how that instability almost led to significant moves). They'd only be able to field about a third of the men and equipment that Israel theoretically could but if Jordan goes to war there's a substantial likelihood others would join them (think: Hizbullah, maybe factions in Iraq or thorough Syria, potentially even Egyptian guerrilla support). Israel isn't in a position to fight any meaningful war outside its own borders beyond running some bombing campaigns. Jordan would almost certainly ask the US to leave its waters. There's all sorts that could theoretically happen but it's definitely something Israel doesn't want. And I doubt the US would allow it. tl;dr - this is probably more for the US than anyone else. "Sort Israel out or poo poo's about to fall the gently caress apart" is the message I think.
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Nov 6, 2023 14:20
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As much as Israel would like to dump the population they've abused for decades on someone else I don't think there's any reasonable way they can compel their neighbours to take them. Even if they managed to do it somehow Egypt/Jordan could at minimum retaliate by giving Hamas free reign to attack Israel from within their borders.
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Nov 6, 2023 14:25
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Willo567 posted:https://twitter.com/MazenMahdi/status/1721509190684786986 Jordan does take it's custodianship of the al-aqsa mosque very seriously.
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Nov 6, 2023 14:28
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The attempt by the PLO to coup(with Syrian support) the Jordanian government kinda soured them on taking on more Palestinian refugees after historically being willing to offer citizenship- it also made the Hashemites more amenable to a relationship with Israel.
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Nov 6, 2023 14:35
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Nevermind
Willo567 fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Nov 6, 2023 |
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Nov 6, 2023 14:39
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Willo567 posted:https://twitter.com/MazenMahdi/status/1721509190684786986 Jordan is extremely unlikely to declare war over Gaza's populace being driven into Egypt, but it's basically impossible for them to stand by and do nothing if Israel starts trying to drive the West Bank's population over the border to Jordan. It's extremely unlikely that Israel is going to do that this time, though.
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Nov 6, 2023 14:42
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Panzeh posted:The attempt by the PLO to coup(with Syrian support) the Jordanian government kinda soured them on taking on more Palestinian refugees after historically being willing to offer citizenship- it also made the Hashemites more amenable to a relationship with Israel. The Hashemis have been amenable to working with Israel since the beginning. In 1948 they essentially had a gentlemen's agreement with Israel to annex the West Bank (including refusing to engage at key moments). In the period between 1948-1967 Jordan frequently shared intel with Israel. In 1967, Jordan and Israel essentially had an understanding that Jordan wouldn't get involved in any major conflict. They only got involved because Israel took out its airforce, went 'whoopsies, but we'll leave you alone if you don't do anything'. The Hashemis have only ever been interested in securing their reign and getting as much resource under their control as possible. To that end, everything (including the Waqf) has to be understood through the lens of their own survival mechanisms.
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Nov 6, 2023 14:51
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Main Paineframe posted:Jordan is extremely unlikely to declare war over Gaza's populace being driven into Egypt, but it's basically impossible for them to stand by and do nothing if Israel starts trying to drive the West Bank's population over the border to Jordan. It's extremely unlikely that Israel is going to do that this time, though.
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Nov 6, 2023 15:01
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Hong XiuQuan posted:The Hashemis have been amenable to working with Israel since the beginning. In 1948 they essentially had a gentlemen's agreement with Israel to annex the West Bank (including refusing to engage at key moments). In the period between 1948-1967 Jordan frequently shared intel with Israel. In 1967, Jordan and Israel essentially had an understanding that Jordan wouldn't get involved in any major conflict. They only got involved because Israel took out its airforce, went 'whoopsies, but we'll leave you alone if you don't do anything'. It was more Nasser lying to King Hussein that the Israeli air force was destroyed, Egyptian planes were bombing Tel Aviv and he should attack Israel immediately. The Jordanian air force was indeed taken out but not after it had attacked Israel first and got hit while refueling at their bases.
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Nov 6, 2023 15:08
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Willo567 posted:What makes you think Israel won't try doing just that? They've already shown they don't care about civilians I think they're saying Israel doesn't have an excuse lined up to completely purge the West Bank right now. So far the Israeli government, IDF & settlers have been breaking it up into enclaves and terrorizing Palestinians in the area & this has worked while keeping the West Bank largely out of the public eye. Doing something larger to the West Bank, a nominal noncombatant, while they are currently destroying the Gaza strip would draw down a lot of international scrutiny, as ultimately ineffective as that may be. Nancy fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Nov 6, 2023 |
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Nov 6, 2023 15:48
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CeeJee posted:It was more Nasser lying to King Hussein that the Israeli air force was destroyed, Egyptian planes were bombing Tel Aviv and he should attack Israel immediately. Not going to take this thread down "what happened in 1967" but suffice to say that the Hashemis have been cosy with Israel since the 1948
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Nov 6, 2023 16:15
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Nancy posted:I think Willo567 means they don't have an excuse lined up to completely purge the West Bank right now. So far the Israeli government, IDF & settlers have been breaking it up into enclaves and terrorizing Palestinians in the area & this has worked while keeping the West Bank largely out of the public eye. Doing something larger to the West Bank, a nominal noncombatant, while they are currently destroying the Gaza strip would draw down a lot of international scrutiny, as ultimately ineffective as that may be. Aren't they handing AR15s to the settlers enmass right now? Feels like what Hamas did to the Kibbutzs is gonna be childs play pretty soon
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Nov 6, 2023 17:54
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Hong XiuQuan posted:The Hashemis have been amenable to working with Israel since the beginning. In 1948 they essentially had a gentlemen's agreement with Israel to annex the West Bank (including refusing to engage at key moments). In the period between 1948-1967 Jordan frequently shared intel with Israel. In 1967, Jordan and Israel essentially had an understanding that Jordan wouldn't get involved in any major conflict. They only got involved because Israel took out its airforce, went 'whoopsies, but we'll leave you alone if you don't do anything'. Back then Israel didn't care about Jordan kicking out the few thousand Jews from the Jewish Quarter and other areas?
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Nov 6, 2023 17:58
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E2M2 posted:Aren't they handing AR15s to the settlers enmass right now? Feels like what Hamas did to the Kibbutzs is gonna be childs play pretty soon Not yet, no. There's certainly some concern that they're going to do so, but most of the violence so far is from settlers who were already armed (or who aren't armed, but are well aware that the watchful eye of the IDF will protect them from any consequences). And the guns that Israel is distributing are not primarily for assaulting Palestinians. It's a measure to restore public confidence after the IDF dropped the ball big-time on Oct 7th: the point is to provide an assurance that any community within a few miles of any Palestinians will have a local militia on hand for self-defense, even if the nearest IDF base gets caught napping and lets another Palestinian incursion through. Some of those guns are inevitably going to fall into the hands of extremists who'll use them for violence, and the administration isn't really going to do all that much to prevent it, but it's not going to be at the kind of level that leads to mass refugees fleeing into Jordan. To put things in perspective, around 150 Palestinians have been killed by Israelis in the West Bank since Oct 7th. That's a loving awful increase from what it was before Oct 7th - the total number killed from January through August was 172, which was already a big increase from the total 2022 count of 155 - but it's still gonna be a far cry from mass expulsion, even if Ben-Gvir gets to hand out a couple thousand free guns to the price taggers and hilltop youth.
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Nov 6, 2023 18:16
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Giving them all assault rifles is a good way to make sure settlers are never forced to leave the West Bank like they were forced to leave Gaza.
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Nov 6, 2023 19:53
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Hebron is a nightmare rn for anyone who’s not a settler: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/5/like-a-prison-the-palestinians-in-hebron-living-under-israeli-lockdown?utm_source=pocket_reader quote:
Settlers are playing dress-up in military uniforms and torturing people, which is like, probably already a death squad, but if not technically, is a hair’s breadth away from it.
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Nov 6, 2023 20:00
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Rukeli posted:Back then Israel didn't care about Jordan kicking out the few thousand Jews from the Jewish Quarter and other areas? Ben Gurion’s primary concern was getting a demographic majority in the land he could hold on to and then to ensure Israel didn’t have to fight another three-front war. When he wanted to expand he looked initially to Egypt. To be clear, he and his successors and Hussein weren’t in some deep and meaningful sexual relationship. They used each other politically.
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Nov 6, 2023 20:01
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selec posted:Hebron is a nightmare rn for anyone who’s not a settler: I posted a video earlier of a woman visiting her parents hometown of Hebron. Part of it was an old lady having to scale a building because she wasn't allowed to use the street her house was on. Every day.
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Nov 6, 2023 20:12
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Jaxyon posted:I posted a video earlier of a woman visiting her parents hometown of Hebron. I think there’s a real job of work to be done sending people who lived under Jim Crow over to Israel to talk to people and compare what they go through with what happened in our own country. You wouldn’t even need to go to Gaza or the West Bank, just talk to Israeli Arabs about their schools, how marriage works between Arabs and Israelis, or same-sex marriage still being illegal there. I think that would do a lot to push sentiment and get people asking what the hell is going on there and why we fund it.
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Nov 6, 2023 21:02
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They have nets outside their homes because the settlers who live above just toss trash down on them.
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Nov 6, 2023 21:07
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selec posted:I think there’s a real job of work to be done sending people who lived under Jim Crow over to Israel to talk to people and compare what they go through with what happened in our own country. You wouldn’t even need to go to Gaza or the West Bank, just talk to Israeli Arabs about their schools, how marriage works between Arabs and Israelis, or same-sex marriage still being illegal there. How could one even get that information out there in the west? It would be labeled as antisemitism by the mainstream if it wasn’t simply ignored, just like the protests now. Social media services would be pressured to categorize it as harmful misinformation. Sharing it could open people to genuine legal trouble in several western democracies. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/france-germany-palestinian-supporters-say-they-struggle-be-heard-2023-10-19/ quote:Over the weekend, Paris police issued a ban on the "presence and circulation of people that present themselves as pro-Palestinian". Since Oct. 12 they have issued 827 fines and arrested 43 people. quote:Darmanin said on Tuesday that 327 antisemitic acts had taken place in France since Oct. 7, with 183 arrests for antisemitism or apologising for terrorism. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/10/20/palestinian-tiktok-instagram-algospeak-israel-hamas/ quote:
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Nov 6, 2023 21:16
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Have there been any ballpark estimates of Israeli military casualties and materiel losses since they launched their assault? There's a ton of video of Palestinian fighters doing things like running up to tanks and destroying their outer defences before firing an RPG at them but its hard to know if this is having real effects on the Israeli assault or if its mostly just a show for the cameras.
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Nov 6, 2023 21:54
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Are we counting damage from Hezbollah? Because they've claimed a few tank kills and some direct hits on border forts in the north.
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Nov 6, 2023 21:56
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HootTheOwl posted:This thread seems to think that a destroyed or downed tank goes up in flames and there's black pillars of smoke like they're searching for a Pope, when the reality is much less cinematic. You have not seen many tank kills if you think this is true lol. If you have any kind of turret toss event there's absolutely going to be a massive column of smoke and flame because all the tank's ammo just cooked off. I don't know if Merkava tanks have the Abrams system of ammo storage in a separate compartment from the crew but those systems are designed to blow out special panels if ammo is hit so the whole tank doesn't go up. Even that causes a lot of smoke and flame, it just results in an alive crew rather than a dead one. Tanks have a lot of explosives and fuel in them. They tend to make large explosions when they get hit with a high explosive weapon. HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Nov 6, 2023 |
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Nov 6, 2023 22:05
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Edit: I absolutely did not mean to post in this thread
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Nov 6, 2023 22:07
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Best Friends posted:How could one even get that information out there in the west? It would be labeled as antisemitism by the mainstream if it wasn’t simply ignored, just like the protests now. Social media services would be pressured to categorize it as harmful misinformation. Sharing it could open people to genuine legal trouble in several western democracies. The ideal would be to send people under the aegis of an org like MSNBC (lol, I know) and you could do one better by tracking down Jewish freedom riders and organizers from the era and having them go along to. You’d get riveting footage, I suspect, as people who lived under and fought these kind of policies were bearing witness to the version of them at play right now in Israel. I don’t hold out hope that this kind of reporting would be undertaken, but it’d be nice to see.
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Nov 6, 2023 22:34
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I think theres a reason why Israel is pretty selective on who can visit. Ta-Nehisi Coates talked about his visit and thats the closest thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_df_u7yJj3k
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Nov 6, 2023 23:11
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E2M2 posted:I think theres a reason why Israel is pretty selective on who can visit.
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Nov 6, 2023 23:28
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Both Irish and Brazilian nationals seem to be deliberately excluded from the lists of people allowed to leave Gaza, while countries that did not press for a ceasefire or gave carte-blanche to the scouring got bumped to the front.
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Nov 7, 2023 02:17
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