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My personal pet theory wrt Alex Casey I think that Alex Casey, the real person who has been pulled in to fiction and written and used, mirrors another familiar face that appears both as a real person and a character. Alan Wake himself. I believe that Alan is in a similar situation, written in by Thomas Zane. Back in the day there was speculation on who was really... Real? Alan Wake writes that Thomas Zane writes in the clicker, adding it into Alan's life as a child so that he will have this weapon when he needs it. But, did Alan write that, or has Zane been using Alan this whole time, a fictional character that he wrote to save himself? I think with Alex Casey we learn that it's a bit of both. That Alan Wake is a real person, but who has been used in fiction by Thomas Zane. I'd need more time to go through the movie and really collect my thoughts and everything but I think that's why people refer to him as Tom. He is the spitting image of him after all, since Tom played him in a movie.
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Nov 7, 2023 18:28
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Cynthia remembered Tom as a poet, not a filmmaker. That's important I think. It means it can't be as simple as Tom playing Alan in a film - Tom wrote things. That's what's true. The film stuff is... there's some kind of fiction there, even though it pretends the poet was just a character.
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Nov 7, 2023 18:35
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Finished the game. Possibly my GotY. I feel like an actual plot is fairly weak, weirdly enough. The reason for this is that the story is kind of incomprehensible. As everyone said it'svery Twin Peaks The Return inspired, but I feel like in that season of television you at least knew the characters and stakes. Sure, the ending was strange, but before that you understood what happened with Cooper and Bob, and even Episode 8 was clear, just weird. There are FOUR Alex Caseys in the game, and it's that sort of thing that really messes with me. Which one is real? Are all of them? None? Playing as Alan specifically I just tuned out the events because it was all Black Lodge fuckery. Doesn't help that Alan barely interacts with anyone and everyone aside from Tom makes him confused as hell more than anything. I definitely preferred Saga as a character and her campaign. Despite this, I've enjoyed the story of Alan Wake II more than most games I've played this year, and it's all thanks to it being INCREDIBLY funny and having some A+ characters. I don't even know if I would classify it as horror, because nothing actually scary happens in it. Well, except for absolutely absurd jumpscares. It's like they knew they didn't have enough actually tense elements so they keep you on your toes by letting you know that at any time a spook will appear full-screen and screech at you. This was legit idiotic and I see no reason for this aside from trying to get some fame off social media pissbabies who will make Hilarious Reactions. For gently caress's sake, Old Gods chapter had like 5 of them and they were all the same exact jumpscare! The ending was good too! For a game that isn't really scary it manages to not do a lovely happy ending which feels divorced from the genre or killing off everyone and just making you mad. I think a cliffhanger is a valid ending technique even if there's no continuation because, yeah, I've been in a situation where I can't reach someone who I believe is in danger and it is TERRIFYING.
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Nov 7, 2023 18:36
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Archonex posted:Casey is in a weird place. Hear this out, because it's a lot of words but it might explain what he really is. There's a reason why the FBC treats him like a walking talking AWE tier anomaly and have to resist the impulse to lock him up. Okay but why does he sync drinking coffee with Saga, that poo poo is weird.
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Nov 7, 2023 18:37
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I kinda liked the jump scares, speaking as someone who isn’t a horror head, because i think they serve better as a shorthand for encountering or getting closer to something that is touched by darkness. Like a primal lizard brain sense going off that “this place be hosed, get out now”
Unlucky7 fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Nov 7, 2023 |
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Nov 7, 2023 18:40
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There's some official Old Gods of Asgard merch and music coming out: https://www.backstagerockshop.com/collections/old-gods-of-asgard
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Nov 7, 2023 18:48
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Vookatos posted:There are FOUR Alex Caseys in the game, and it's that sort of thing that really messes with me. Which one is real? Are all of them? None? As an addendum the "real" Alex Casey is probably the FBI agent and maybe the Max Payne version in some alternate reality. But then the stuff I mentioned in my post happened and real went out the window. Alex Casey the FBI agent was probably the real one, but because of the talk show with Alan giving the rights to use Casey's likeness in an adaptation (seriously, the better question is what the Dark Presence would do with such a wide ranging authorization of usage beyond the immediate act of loving over Casey. Does that mean it now gets access to Max Payne in an alternate reality?) now he's being stretched across multiple identities possibly retroactively. Though this makes me wonder if we'll get some Hartman from Control level fuckery in the DLC given that he's got Door and the Dark Presence involved. "HARTMAN WAS STRETCHED" with the Hiss and Dark Presence trying to overtake him simultaneously is a thing after all and implies having your existence hosed with to that degree is not a pleasant experience in the long run. Caidin posted:Okay but why does he sync drinking coffee with Saga, that poo poo is weird. Hey, there's no rule that the real version wasn't a loving weirdo to begin with. Just look at his weird rage at being out in nature. 
Archonex fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Nov 7, 2023 |
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Nov 7, 2023 18:49
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Also, another thing I liked was the cult stashes (again, big spoilers) hammering home that the Cult of the Tree were just a bunch of well meaning idiots in over their head and kind of high on their farts.
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Nov 7, 2023 18:51
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I think Saga’s escape from her Mind Place in the Dark Place was good. But she hadn’t really displayed much self doubt before that point. I feel like they maybe should have given her a few moments of minor doubt earlier in the story because it came across as the Dark Place amplifying fears that mostly hadn’t been touched on outside of something bad potentially happening to Logan.Unlucky7 posted:Also, another thing I liked was the cult stashes (again, big spoilers) hammering home that the Cult of the Tree were just a bunch of well meaning idiots in over their head and kind of high on their farts. Casimir Radon fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Nov 7, 2023 |
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Nov 7, 2023 18:53
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I like where you're going with it, but wasn't that first interview very specifically called out by name as Sam Lake, the "actor", who plays Casey in the "films"
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Nov 7, 2023 18:54
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site posted:I like where you're going with it, but wasn't that first interview very specifically called out by name as Sam Lake, the "actor", who plays Casey in the "films" Given what we know of the Dark Presence that's more than enough for the Dark Presence to gently caress over Casey the FBI detective. Also, his likeness is linked to the book Alan Wake writes, and even the FBC is leery of the guy as a result. He's even got a mention in Control's DLC that helps with this and establishes that there's some sort of narrative link to Alan Wake's book. As a bonus to all of that here's an even bigger mind bender. The Alan Wake easter egg in Quantum Break allegedly shows him being killed in "The Return" by Scratch. So there's some weird multi-dimensional stuff going on across at least three games counting Control's DLC as well. This also means that there aren't just as few as four Alex Casey's. By that logic there's at least five or more since he exists in a story presumably influenced by Alan Wake's works in the Quantum Break timeline as well. Using TVtropes to sum it up since i've typed enough as it is posted:Casey the book character was killed off in the final novel. The "Return" Easter Egg (which shows the Broad Strokes of Saga's half of the story) in Quantum Break also showed him getting killed by Scratch. Despite several close calls and a possession, he survives to the end credits (in Alan Wake 2) in control of himself. What that means if anything at all I have no idea other than that maybe that's how Door knows of him and might somehow be why the Sam Lake version is hanging out in a weird meta-textual talk show with the guy from Quantum Break who is everywhere all at once.  Maybe someone else is familiar enough with that part of the Alex Casey thing to comment on it.
Archonex fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Nov 7, 2023 |
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Nov 7, 2023 18:57
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There are multiple distinct but overlapping Alex Casey's. Similar to how there are multiple Tom Zane's; the original who now lives forever in a magic happy place with the real Barbara iirc after writing himself into death to stop the 70s AWE, diving suit Zane who the original wrote to help Alan, and Alan's Tom Zane who he wrote back into reality (vis a vis the Dark Place) with the manuscript hence why Zane in Control and Alan Wake 2 look like Alan - like Scratch he basically is just another part of Alan. I think. It gets harder to understand because Zane is also the one who wrote Alan, or maybe just parts of Alan's life like he did with Cynthia, but also Alan wrote Zane writing Alan. Whatever. Sometimes you think too much about this lol. Plus I can't remember if Tom the Filmmaker or Tom the Poet are the original, or if Alan wrote one, or if Tom the Filmmaker made Tom the Poet real when he made the movie Tom the Poet starring him, Tom the Filmmaker. Cynthia says poet, Jesse Faden says Poet, but also both of them were affected by Tom and Alan and and ahhhhhhhhhhh I love Remedy Casimir Radon posted:I think Saga’s escape from her Mind Place in the Dark Place was good. But she hadn’t really displayed much self doubt before that point. I feel like they maybe should have given her a few moments of minor doubt earlier in the story because it came across as the Dark Place amplifying fears that mostly hadn’t been touched on outside of something bad potentially happening to Logan. I think they were killing a lot more than just the four that brought the FBI in, Mulligan and Thornton's duties for the Cult, before they accidentally murdered an innocent woman and the guilt made them vulnerable to the Dark Presence, were to dump bodies in the Finnish Murder Well
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Nov 7, 2023 19:08
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Unlucky7 posted:I kinda liked the jump scares, speaking as someone who isn’t a horror head, because i think they serve better as a shorthand for encountering or getting closer to something that is touched by darkness. Like a primal lizard brain sense going off that “this place be hosed, get out now” Okay, I swear I'm not trying to make light off it, but when people are referring to jump scares in this game, are we talking about the quick cuts to the scratch video clips or something else? Because none of that ever got me even a little but I want to be on the same page as everyone else
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Nov 7, 2023 19:15
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Casimir Radon posted:I think Saga’s escape from her Mind Place in the Dark Place was good. But she hadn’t really displayed much self doubt before that point. I feel like they maybe should have given her a few moments of minor doubt earlier in the story because it came across as the Dark Place amplifying fears that mostly hadn’t been touched on outside of something bad potentially happening to Logan. It was a balancing act for the cult. Their goal wasn’t just to eliminate Taken, but also scare the poo poo out of people so they never went into the woods around Cauldron Lake again. Leaving a body or two lying around was probably a calculated risk they took to get that effect. Presumably Nightingale would have been one of the bodies that they would have hidden if they weren’t interrupted
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Nov 7, 2023 19:39
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site posted:Okay, I swear I'm not trying to make light off it, but when people are referring to jump scares in this game, are we talking about the quick cuts to the scratch video clips or something else? Because none of that ever got me even a little but I want to be on the same page as everyone else Basically, and honestly I do not think they are that bad. It’s basically the game occasionally going “OOGA BOOGA BOOGA!!” One thing that confuses me slightly is that (late spoiler)i thought that altered world events were more or less localized, but by the end game the story had even effected David (a legit brutal scene), and he was supposed to be in Virginia, clear on the other side of the country? Granted it could be because that the Dark Place is REALLY powerful
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Nov 7, 2023 19:41
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Unlucky7 posted:Basically, and honestly I do not think they are that bad. It’s basically the game occasionally going “OOGA BOOGA BOOGA!!” really potent AWE’s can break containment. the Hiss (which Alan created using the Dark Presence as inspiration) would have done the same if its “broadcast” hasn’t been stymied by Jesse
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Nov 7, 2023 19:45
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Unlucky7 posted:Basically, and honestly I do not think they are that bad. It’s basically the game occasionally going “OOGA BOOGA BOOGA!!” Personally I questioned whether she may not have actually been talking to David at all in those last couple phone calls due to the intervention of the dark presence. But that's pure speculation. From the past few pages I feel like I actually need to give quantum break a try
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Nov 7, 2023 19:54
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Game also made me want to try to finish up Control as well. It’s weird, I played the first Alan Wake once years ago, liked it well enough, but after a few episodes did not really come back to it. This game I basically devoured, even through some of the more bullshit sections and bugs that I encountered.
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Nov 7, 2023 20:03
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Archonex posted:As an addendum the "real" Alex Casey is probably the FBI agent and maybe the Max Payne version in some alternate reality. site posted:Okay, I swear I'm not trying to make light off it, but when people are referring to jump scares in this game, are we talking about the quick cuts to the scratch video clips or something else? Because none of that ever got me even a little but I want to be on the same page as everyone else I liked the one when you talk to a specific NPC which might be a spoiler so I'm not even gonna mention it, because it does feel like a turning point and as one poster above mentioned, a kind of a "oh poo poo" moment, but then they just show up screaming at you as you progress through the level for no reason. Go towards the door? Shriek! It's like that flash maze game.
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Nov 7, 2023 20:11
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acksplode posted:Rewatch the conversation where they write the ending. At a certain point they realize that Alan is also a hero in the story, and therefore he can pay all the price that the genre demands. His taking the bullet is supposed to be what allows a happy ending for everyone else. That's why Saga is expectantly calling Logan -- the ending leaves unclear whether it's actually the case, but the intention is that she pays no price. Whoops, I need to rewatch it. I thought she said she accepted being a hero. Maybe I misunderstood or misheard. parasyte posted:
Unlucky7 posted:I kinda liked the jump scares, speaking as someone who isn’t a horror head, because i think they serve better as a shorthand for encountering or getting closer to something that is touched by darkness. Like a primal lizard brain sense going off that “this place be hosed, get out now” I hated them at first but as I got used to them, I was more invested in them happening because I knew it was immersive to the characters, similar to what you're saying.
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Nov 7, 2023 20:18
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Revitalized posted:Whoops, I need to rewatch it. I thought she said she accepted being a hero. Maybe I misunderstood or misheard. I think you caught that much correctly. The nut they had to crack next was how to get a happy ending without sacrificing Saga's family, and treating Alan as a second hero so he could be sacrificed was the solution they landed on.
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Nov 7, 2023 20:20
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Oxxidation posted:really potent AWE’s can break containment. the Hiss (which Alan created using the Dark Presence as inspiration) would have done the same if its “broadcast” hasn’t been stymied by Jesse
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Nov 7, 2023 20:22
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Prokhor posted:I think this is misguided. Specifically, Alan Wake has nothing to do with the Hiss or the Slide Projector existing. Similarly with Polaris. He reached out and bent them together when making the monster that was Hartman, but he didn't create either thing. There's a scene in the AWE DLC where Alan comes up with the Hiss chant
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Nov 7, 2023 20:23
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Revitalized posted:Whoops, I need to rewatch it. I thought she said she accepted being a hero. Maybe I misunderstood or misheard. she does, but Alan interjects that he is also the hero and thus he can be the sacrifice
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Nov 7, 2023 20:24
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acksplode posted:There's a scene in the AWE DLC where Alan comes up with the Hiss chant The Dark Place cannot create, it can only alter.
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Nov 7, 2023 20:25
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site posted:she does, but Alan interjects that he is also the hero and thus he can be the sacrifice That was actually Saga's idea  . One thing I love about the ending is how it flips their dynamic and suddenly Saga has most of the ideas and agencySirSamVimes posted:The Dark Place cannot create, it can only alter. Shrug. Take it up with the AWE DLC lol
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Nov 7, 2023 20:26
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acksplode posted:There's a scene in the AWE DLC where Alan comes up with the Hiss chant I don't think this implies he created it. He wrote the chant and the Hiss took it, but that's all. Thinking on it, I think 'Take Control' by the Old Gods of Asgard would be the sort of controlling prescedent, in that they're primarily prophetic. I think it would make the most sense that they saw the situation coming and put their hand on the scale long before Alan Wake could create anything. Wait again even BEFORE that, the Old Gods call it out in Balance Slays the Demon. Prokhor fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Nov 7, 2023 |
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Nov 7, 2023 20:27
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One thing I find interesting regarding the Alan and Scratch discourse. If Scratch is indeed entirely Alan's darkest self, perhaps manifested by the DP tender mercies or no, then it's kinda  that even in Return despite every spiteful thing done to the side characters of the last game, the nastiest thing he can bring himself to do about Barry is keeping him away.
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Nov 7, 2023 20:28
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Caidin posted:One thing I find interesting regarding the Alan and Scratch discourse. If Scratch is indeed entirely Alan's darkest self, perhaps manifested by the DP tender mercies or no, then it's kinda There are some implications that Scratch was quite a bit meaner to Barry before Alans revisions, the whole contractors cheapening out on the Valhalla Nursing home part is one of Alan's edits, so the original could have just been that it was entirely Barry's fault for just taking the money and loving off after wringing out everything he could from the Anderssons Or maybe Scratch is just too scared of Barry's Flaming Eye of Mordor to dare attract its attention Hel fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Nov 7, 2023 |
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Nov 7, 2023 20:33
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Prokhor posted:I don't think this implies he created it. He wrote the chant and the Hiss took it, but that's all. I think they as much imply or state that Alan is also a seer, like Saga, and what she perceives as insights from profiling he perceives as inspiration. So I don't think he came up with the Hiss or the chant necessarily, but I believe he thought he did.
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Nov 7, 2023 20:40
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Some of the edits are even meaner to the characters though, like Mulligan and Thornton accidentally murdering an innocent and hiding the body was Scratch (ie Alan when he was completely overwhelmed by the Dark Presence and writing in a fugue state with Zane), but them being misogynist racist fucks was an edit, which means Alan wrote them when he was more himself. One thing worth noting is that the Dark Presence is a sapient entity in its own right. The entire reason Alan is trapped in the Dark Place in the first place is due to its manipulations.
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Nov 7, 2023 20:40
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lines posted:I think they as much imply or state that Alan is also a seer, like Saga, and what she perceives as insights from profiling he perceives as inspiration. So I don't think he came up with the Hiss or the chant necessarily, but I believe he thought he did. You're (I'm) sorta predisposed to imagine the Old Gods of Asgard's songs prophecy as acts of creation powered up by the lake. But it sure starts to seem like they're also mythic figures on their own, completely separate from the powers of the lake. I'm kinda thinking like on the same sort of level almost as Door or Ahti. Like they're (in their prime) not so easily meddled with
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Nov 7, 2023 20:46
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Prokhor posted:That's actually another question I had while thinking about it ok so I always felt like they're just insane enough that the entire ordeal just makes sense to them. (Plus the fact that they're seers)
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Nov 7, 2023 20:50
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it's been a couple years since i played it, but wasn't it the implication by the end of aw1 that they are reincarnations or avatars of a sort of the norse gods
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Nov 7, 2023 20:55
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One of the things I like about them tying all this into a connected universe is that it establishes that not everything is because of the Dark Presence, poo poo can just be weird for completely different reasons. The FBC calling something an Object of Power or AWE, is just a categorization of how powerful it is, not because they have the same source.
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Nov 7, 2023 20:56
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Prokhor posted:Wait again even BEFORE that, the Old Gods call it out in Balance Slays the Demon. Barry wrote that.
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Nov 7, 2023 20:58
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Mulva posted:Barry wrote that.
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Nov 7, 2023 21:01
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I thought it was that Barry co-wrote it with them (and also included some lanes of Zane poetry!)
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Nov 7, 2023 21:02
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Hel posted:One of the things I like about them tying all this into a connected universe is that it establishes that not everything is because of the Dark Presence, poo poo can just be weird for completely different reasons. The FBC calling something an Object of Power or AWE, is just a categorization of how powerful it is, not because they have the same source. It also adds an element of ambiguity to certain things. Like why Martin Hatch is operating under an alias inside the Dark Place and not loving about in Quantum Break's universe anymore. Door doesn't seem to be an avatar of the DP and is doing his own thing. Given his stated motivations in Quantum Break it seems like it might have something to do with Alex Casey --- or at least, a version of him. But even that's ambiguous.
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Nov 7, 2023 21:17
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site posted:Okay, I swear I'm not trying to make light off it, but when people are referring to jump scares in this game, are we talking about the quick cuts to the scratch video clips or something else? Because none of that ever got me even a little but I want to be on the same page as everyone else on a bigscreen TV at night with the lights dimmed and home theater audio cranked it scared the poo poo out of me multiple times mitigated slightly by knowing it just meant a boss fight was coming up soon so you knew they were coming, just not exactly when
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Nov 7, 2023 21:23
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