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Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Xguard86 posted:

I trained at a Machado school when lockdown was the hip new thing. Jean Jacque came through and showed us all how to beat it. Relatively easy if they're just holding on and have tunnel-vision on that one position.


For a good few years after, we were slicing through 10p style half guards like it was nothing, often to their total confusion to how we were doing this. Knowing JJ a little bit, I'm pretty sure it was a macro strategy to troll Eddy.

These days, with the number of years since those days and how fast information spreads, lockdown is just kind of another thing people do.

How did you learn to beat it? I'm guessing something more complicated than just the little up & out foot lift

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Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
Lift, slide your foot under, then use your own heel to pressure the lock until you slip out or they let go because it can be a psuedo-ankle lock from the wrong angle. Hide your own foot after or go reverse half so they can't get it again. He called it "the button". Is that what you're thinking of?

It was also sort of the immediacy and fluidity of execution of the technique. If you start escaping before they can really tie it up, it feels magical.


Like above though; these days people know more. A lockdown half player is going to be ready for the counters. I still use it but it's not mysterious.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Xguard86 posted:

Lift, slide your foot under, then use your own heel to pressure the lock until you slip out or they let go because it can be a psuedo-ankle lock from the wrong angle. Hide your own foot after or go reverse half so they can't get it again. He called it "the button". Is that what you're thinking of?

It was also sort of the immediacy and fluidity of execution of the technique. If you start escaping before they can really tie it up, it feels magical.


Like above though; these days people know more. A lockdown half player is going to be ready for the counters. I still use it but it's not mysterious.

got a vid? not sure what you mean by "slide the foot under"

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
Some combination of Lachlan here using his feet:

https://youtu.be/xIkXPK5h-4A?si=UA9jZS5ET5oZAJjs

And John sort of sliding out once he has the angle:

https://youtu.be/VsLSCbC6-DI?si=x47i4rF48dXI9UoW


I can't find one of JJ Machado himself. John's video dates to around the same time period.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Xguard86 posted:

Some combination of Lachlan here using his feet:

https://youtu.be/xIkXPK5h-4A?si=UA9jZS5ET5oZAJjs

And John sort of sliding out once he has the angle:

https://youtu.be/VsLSCbC6-DI?si=x47i4rF48dXI9UoW


I can't find one of JJ Machado himself. John's video dates to around the same time period.

yeah, the first one lachlan shows is the one I knew. the others are great though, especially the knee cut

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

Undoing the lockdown is no big deal, you can just egg beater your ankle around theirs, the problem comes in getting enough of an advantage out of doing that, because once you flip your ankle out you have to then pass just a normal half guard and do it before they rehook your ankle. The only actual counter to the lockdown I've actually seen and done is if your opponent forgets rule 1) never let your opponent posture. Because if you posture and go to a kneeling position with your opponent still locked down you can hit an indian deathlock. Unfortunately I can't find good prowrestling footage of it in action, but here's keenan actually teaching it instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cevaArRRIY


note: huh, I learned that you can back spin kneebar up and over into it instead of just sitting up.

edit: Keenan attributes this move to a rando blue belt, but it's definitely a catch move, Paulson showed it to me in 2015ish and you can see it in prowrestling footage.

Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Nov 7, 2023

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Over in the martial arts thread, I posted on Mongol Bokh and also starting to train in it. Would people here care to look at the video? I dunno if it makes sense to paste the posts here or just direct yall over there.
As I see it, the MA thread is very broad with less expertise in every kind of art, whereas here it's maybe strongly focused on BJJ and relatively similar grappling rulesets.

I guess I'm looking for general standup grappling advice, since it's not my background and I could have some blindspots, particularly with posture or grip strategy.

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

kimbo305 posted:

Over in the martial arts thread, I posted on Mongol Bokh and also starting to train in it. Would people here care to look at the video? I dunno if it makes sense to paste the posts here or just direct yall over there.
As I see it, the MA thread is very broad with less expertise in every kind of art, whereas here it's maybe strongly focused on BJJ and relatively similar grappling rulesets.

I guess I'm looking for general standup grappling advice, since it's not my background and I could have some blindspots, particularly with posture or grip strategy.

:justpost: your video here. I dont know what mongol bokh is but I'm willing to learn and more importantly will to give terrible advice to a fellow goon on how to hug another human being violently.

Edit: oh its mongolian wrasslin', that slaps, I've never been formally trained in it or knew you could find that in the states but am aware of it.

Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Nov 8, 2023

duckdealer
Feb 28, 2011

I saw what you posted in the other thread and it was pretty cool! I'm sure others here would enjoy it.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
Sensei Seth's YouTube videos on Sumo wrestling, and the translation it's clearly had in more general purpose competitive environments, has made me more receptive to the usefulness (and coolness) of "outsider" grappling.

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

What would a completely bullshit grappling art even look like? Even aikido has some genuinely useful and funny throws you can do in rolling against a resisting opponent.

Sherbert Hoover
Dec 12, 2019

Working hard, thank you!

Defenestrategy posted:

What would a completely bullshit grappling art even look like? Even aikido has some genuinely useful and funny throws you can do in rolling against a resisting opponent.

systema

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010


LOL I forgot entirely about it. What if death touch bullshido but we make it grappling.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
William Gibson had characters use practically magical Systema in his second "Blue Ant" novel and it was one of the rare times when it was obvious he had been drinking the cool aid and was really out of touch.

But he apparently did some research because in the third novel the combative Deus Ex Machina is provided by a supporting character having a romantic liaison with a young, athletic MMA fighter. So that dude tags along to the showdown and one of the antagonists is dispatched off screen with such immediate resolution that the main complication suddenly becomes that the bad guy has been much more seriously injured than anticipated and needs immediate medical assistance. Gibson doesn't narrative the event but you're left with the impression that someone that has been physically bullying "regular people" for the novel's duration ended up basically literally bumping into a college age MMA gym rat and it was quick, decisive, and a little gruesome.

02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004

Ever since I found out that Stephenson is a Sword Guy I can’t unsee it in his writing. Yep, this passage was written by an adult man who owns swords

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Ok, I'll split into two. Here's the background:
============
I recently got introduced to Mongolian Bokh. Gonna write up a little about it here and follow up later with a video of me trying it out.

Mongolian Bokh is a group of folk wrestling styles practiced by various Mongolian ethnic groups.
The particular ruleset likely goes back for a couple thousand years, but the culture around it and why Mongolians still practice it so much is because Genghis Khan decided that it was a good way for the army to keep fit, motivated, and skilled. The "Three Manly Skills" were archery, horse riding, and wrestling, with the latter broadly the most popular in modern Mongolian culture. If it not for Genghis putting his stamp of approval on it, Bokh might not have the same diehard following.

Ok, so what are the rules?
Like many folk styles, a match ends when someone lands on the ground. It doesn't matter if both people fall; the loser is who falls first.
One of the most fascinating things to me about Bokh is that there's no weight classes and no time limits. No weight classes! You could be matched up to any other competitor who shows up to the tournament, even if you're outweighed by 100lbs. If you're a light wrestler, not only do you have to deploy one set of tactics against people of your size and speed, but you have to have another game ready when you square off with a giant.

No time limits is an even more alien concept to me. How do you decide how you expend energy when there's no points, only total victory off the first successful throw? There's so many different ways to speed up or slow down the match, to try to feel out your opponent and try to pick the right time and right tactic to throw all your energy into.

You could compete indoors on a mat, but usually competitions happen outside, so you might have grass, you might have dirt, there might be some rocks, anything goes. It's at least usually warm in the summer, when tournaments are generally held.

The rationale from tradition is that if you're a soldier, you don't get a choice whom you fight against or where you fight. You have to win no matter the conditions even if they're unfavorable to you.


In Khalkh Bokh, the style of the Republic of Mongolia, a fall is when any part of your body above the knee touches the ground.
You're allowed to grab or touch the legs with your arms and hands.
In Inner Mongolian (the province of China) Bokh, you're not allowed to grab the legs, and a fall is any part of your body above the ankle touching the ground.

In Khalkh Bokh, you wear a tight fitting silk or wool bolero-type jacket (jodog), briefs, and shoes.

Here, blue jacket has a grip on the jodog belt and another grip on the wide collar.

In Inner Mongolian Bokh, you have a short sleeve jodog that's geometrically looser but much stiffer thanks to the leather construction.

The loose pants are afforded by the no hand attacks rule.
Often, the leather jackets are studded, which helps with impacts into hard dirt, as the studs drive into the soil and provide a little more give.



Naadams are competition events that encompass all 3 Skills, but frequently focus on wrestling. In the summer, there’s a naadam held somewhere almost every day, so you can easily get all the competition experience you can handle, even if it’s one loss at a time.
Competition field sizes are powers of 2 -- 32 up to 1024 for the national level stuff.
Large naadam tournaments aren't settled in one day, but can you imagine the uncertainty of no time limits, first score wins, facing 5, 6, 7, 8 people of whatever weight up to the final?
A tournament winner gets some prize money and maybe animals, but also for prestigious enough naadams, a jangga, the ribboned necklace you see in the previous picture.
Imagine showing up to the event and there's this many tournament winners, and you might draw one of them first round:


The general hardness of life on the steppes, the extreme reverence Mongolians keep for wrestling, and the specific competition format have produced a lot of Mongolian competitors in other wrestling sports.
As long as they're skilled enough, competing in sports that are more flush with money can be a good career move for talented Mongolian wrestlers.
There's Mongolian world champions in judo, freestyle, sambo, and sumo. For them, their indigenous art isn't something set to put on a pedestal (even if their society thinks very highly of Bokh specifically), but simply one of many proving grounds. They already have a ready to fight anyone mentality from Bokh which probably helps them adapt to other rulesets.
On the flip side, the viability of competing in a sport that levels the playing field for your weight means that a lot of skill developed by lighter wrestlers is departing Bokh, leaving behind absolute units who tend to have a more simplistic power based game:






On a side note, the practice of using wrestling as part of developing and maintaining an army's fitness was adopted by the Manchus and refined into Qing Dynasty imperial army training systems. Similar Manchu wrestling styles become the direct ancestors of Chinese shuaijiao, which is frequently billed (intentionally or not) as an indigenous style. While folk wrestling styles certainly exist and use some of the same cultural precepts about what is considered a fall, shuaijiao (and its influence on sanshou) has direct lineage back to Mongolian wrestling.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
*for more on my background -- I trained sanshou for a long time, like twice a week from 2012 to 2016, then once a week for a couple more years. I now teach it.
In addition to punches ad kicks, sanshou allows any throw you can pull off with boxing gloves on within 3s of initiating a clinch, executed with only the feet touching the floor. And it doesn't reward / require maintaining control to the ground. In fact, its scoring encourages clean separation so that you stay standing no matter what.
I was never a throw-heavy kind of sanshou fighter, and when I did throw, it was usually off of kick catches. So while I have a modest amount of experience with takedown defense, my offensive game has little overlap with Bokh rules outside of falls being anything but feet touching the ground.

 
And here's some notes on my 2nd try with it:
================
Ok, some footage. I haven't done watched more than a couple times. I suspect at least to people who can't see the intricacies of weight shifting and relative positioning (which of coruse includes me), this might be like softball -- more fun to play than to watch. But nevertheless, it's footage I can at least provide some direct 1st person commentary on, unlike some of the highlights out there on Douyin.

So this is my 2nd time ever doing Bokh -- much improved on my first outing but not saying much.
Prior to this, I had done like a month of BJJ and a few months of judo. Not much of that translates over compared to my sanshou instincts*, which lead to me keeping a narrow stance and carrying my own weight in clinches. In my first session, I noticed how much I defaulted to no-gi gripping concepts, namely underhooks and two-on-ones. I was aiming to do more jodog-specific grips in this session, with inconsistent success.

To introduce who I'm wrestling with -- Vincent Tseng has a bit of a presence in the martial arts social media scene. He has a lot of traditional training methodology commentary as The Wandering Warrior. He went from a lot of shuaijiao training to getting more into Inner Mongolian Bokh. He was out in Inner Mongolia for a month this summer to really ramp up his game. Since he's Boston based like me, we eventually hung out in person, and I thought it would be cool to try Bokh out, as a complement to how I teach sanshou, which leans more to the striking side.
At my current flabby weight, I'm almost 50lbs more than him. His goal is to get up another 10lbs of muscle, which is an empirical threshold for finding success in Inner Mongolian competition. As the weight difference sits, I'm trying to be smooth and not herky jerky into or out of anything, to maximize what I'm able to sense of the exchanges

[the audio is really harsh from construction going on across the street]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qadMhiu9_nY&t=10s
I'll call out all the moments of interest:
- in true Bokh fashion, we're doing it outside. Vincent is wearing Inner Mongolian style gutal boots, and I'm in some rubbery Feiyues. Grip was pretty good on the grass, imo
- throughout, I have a decent sense of where the camera is, and to a degree, I either move or allow myself to be moved to center the action a bit. I don't think it really put me at a disadvantage
- 2:05, Vincent pushes forward into a leg reap combo. I'm pretty alert and hop out of the way. Upon recovering, I just dumbly push my right hand against his sleeve instead of trying to get any sort of grip.
- 2:40, you see him subtly reeling me up and in for a trip, but again I'm too wary for it. I manage to reestablish grip on his belt and do a half-hearted outside sweep attempt (this is probably the sanshou throw I'm most experienced with that doesn't involve arm on leg contact; it's of course common to many arts), just completely bouncing off his well-rooted leg
- 3:22, after going through a few grip configurations, he gets two grips to my one, and yanks me forward and then leans down on my shoulder. I'm able to stay upright, but having to squat to resist the pressure. So I'm very up and down posturally, though obviously keen that I'm getting set up. As I make space at 3:30, he pulls me back in and goes for an inside reap. I fight that off, try to heist him up with a bodylock, but fail and am standing straight up, so fall victim to the sustained pressure of the repeat reap
- 4:15, you can see the lightness of my footwork that comes from striking. I'm not sitting down on my heels much.
- 4:23, after getting pulled in again off of a horse's mouth grip on my right sleeve, I'm trying to get his hips close to mine. Starting again from not trying to grip anything and just putting my hands anywhere, I go for the belt but have no feel for how to get under it, so switch to an easily broken gable grip, give up, eventually settle back to no-gi grips.
- 4:46, Vincent goes for a deep far side leg trip, I try to throw his upper body away, he keeps backing up and I touch my knee to the ground
- 6:14, good example of the slow buildup pace that Bokh can have. Vincent keeps steadily advancing, switches to an overhook and keeps my torso bent off to one side. The moment I try to reach across with my left leg to his rear foot, he's ready to stride across, block my knee, and pull me over. Tai otoshi in Judo? This throw goes slowly, but I'm in for the ride the whole time thanks to how rigidly I'm held by my jodog.
- 8:28, Vincent starts an offensive sequence of leg trips. I manage to get out of the last one, but it's precarious. Again, when you're locked up on each others jodog's, the 2-body structure you achieve can balance on a very fine line between standing and falling. So even if things are moving slowly, it pays to fully invest in trying to keep budging and trying to get that topple.
- 8:40, another fun leg attack sequence. I offer one counter in the middle, no good, and then get squashed down at my shoulder again. Try a sweep at 8:57 but am completely read and and countered
- 9:39, I forget the rules and pop under his arm to go for a knee tap. Whoopsie
- 10:52, I think I'm gonna try something by putting my foot behind his lead, maybe wrench him up and back. I'm overall too complacent with being in this 90deg foot stance, and Vincent sends me over his leg with what's called a wai in shuaijiao. And again, how slow it is doesn't show how sure a thing the throw is. At every step of the way, I'm just behind enough that I can't recover out of the situation.
- 13:45, I'm definitely flagging in energy at this point, and I think Vincent can sense it. Once we break grips on one side, he fakes reengaging on that side and switches to a 2-on-1, finishes with a shuaijiao jidao ("squash down"). If I were fresh I would have tried harder to hop around the blocking knee, but I'm just giving in at this point
- 14:58, Vincent starts a creeping advance into a throw that only materializes 30s later, once he's got all the marbles on his side, then he commits


Some other notes:
- the jodog is supposed to be worn down under the shoulders, with the collar running across your shoulder blades, and the sleeves down at the crease of your elbows. Given how stiff the leather is, these are custom sized to your proportions
- to really secure a grip, you're supposed to curl your fingers back up once you have gotten inside the sleeve. Obviously how feasible this is depends on how tight the sleeve is to the arm, how big your hand is, and how stiff the leather is. I would say it was pretty easy for Vincent to do to my training jodog with only canvas for the central span of material, but I was struggling with his stiffer jacket and my fingers not being used to it
- if striking sports are described as games of millimeters, I'd call Bokh a game of seconds. Either you're literally passing time out there, doing true active resting by backing off / disengaging and just breathing, or you're putting everything you got into a single moment of full attack. In some footage I've seen, you see a pair of wrestlers going at it, and the nearby wrestlers do a gentleman's agreement to split apart to watch the action, in part because they could get bowled over if they don't get out of the way
======================

I've done 4 sessions with Vincent so far, and have improved a bit in terms of using my head/shoulders as a resting point for my weight, instead of carrying all of it in my legs. And clinging to a not-ideal grip for dear life instead of thrashing for a better grip and not getting anything at all.

kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Nov 9, 2023

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

Watched it, good on you for getting out there and trying Grapplesports.

There's a lot to unpack here because as you stated you're very new to jacket wrestling in general. So instead of breaking down everything here's two things you should watch.


1)For Defense: At 1:37 look at your partners stance. He has his head controlling your head on the midline, by basically pressing his forehead to your temple which makes it nearly impossible for you to have have any power turning toward him. His grips are basically on your sleeve and belt here which is a stellar defensive position as he can push you back from coming in with his belt hand or turn you with his sleeve hand. You will also notice his feet aren't parallel to each other, this allows him the ability to step easily back forth and to the side. This is an extremely good defensive position as for you to get any attacks off you're gonna have to retrieve your midline and either peel his grip or use a counter grip to begin even trying an attack. The only thing I'm not so sure of is how he's hanging his weight on you. I personally don't like it, because if you did manage to do all of the above quick enough you could instantly win by just stepping back and snapping his head to the floor, however; if he's confident in your inability to do the above kind of thing he's burning no energy and causing you to burn a ton of energy to keep your posture upright which is good.


2)For Offense: at 2:06 he starts what ends up being a beautiful attack run. Utilizing an outside foot sweep, probably a fake because he's not really twisting you, which you stepped out side of which splits your stance. Your opponent then followed up taking advantage of your now compromised position with an Uchimata. The only thing that saves you here is that you either knew or instinctively grabbed his belt and used this as a pivot point to swing around his hip, which is the proper defense.

bonus: You try a body lock take down at 3:36, it fails because if you look at your feet, your feet are parallel and he is in a split stance under you, this makes it hard for you to just yeet someone, and as you said this causes you to straighten your back and get hit with an ouchi-gari. For this to have a better chance of success, look up my favorite sumo throw Yaguranage, seen below


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmn7AU-NS1o

edit: stupid nhk doesn't like embeds.

edit2: I just noticed that in Judo this is actually kind of annoying to pull off because belts can sometimes be finnicky, but this should work beautifully in your sport because the Jacket you're wearing appears really sturdy in so far as it'll give you a great hand hold to lift from.

Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Nov 9, 2023

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

Sorry for double post but had to share this because this seemed bizarre to me.

Gracie Barra Affiliate FB Post posted:

Sandbagging, a term in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, refers to individuals who remain at a belt level for an extended period or those who excel in tournaments but aren't promoted.
The reasons for sandbagging vary, with different coaches using diverse criteria for promotions.
It's essential to remember that promotions depend on the coach's discretion, and there's no universal standard.
Sometimes, holding back promotions is necessary due to injuries, life events, or age-related factors.

uh, dude, no one complains about sandbagging tournaments if you're a blue belt, who has been a blue belt for years, being competitive with blue belts. They complain when you, hypothetically, enter a dude who is as skilled as the average middling blue belt in a white belt division, or have a NCAA wrestling champion enter nogi at beginner.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
We had a dude visit our gym who was a white belt who, no joke, was competitive with our gym owners. He was in the military, had ten+ years of training, but never stuck around anywhere long enough to get a belt. I don't think he signed up for tournaments in that way, but goddamn.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
I mean if I compete again I'm definitely just gonna keep doing purple belt or its equivalent because brown/black is scary

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

Jack B Nimble posted:

We had a dude visit our gym who was a white belt who, no joke, was competitive with our gym owners. He was in the military, had ten+ years of training, but never stuck around anywhere long enough to get a belt. I don't think he signed up for tournaments in that way, but goddamn.

Thats hilarious and that does happen where dudes are kept back because circumstances beyond their control, but to my knowledge outside of ibjjf there isnt any rules saying you cant compete above your given rank.

I think theres an aprocyphal story where josh barnett entered a random ibjjf tourny on a lark and as he wasnt ranked he wasnt allowed to compete at black belt, so jean jacques just tosses the man a black belt.

Probably not true, but I'd like to believe it.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfXo2G4olrI

"And this is...we call this an eye lock."

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

Jack B Nimble posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfXo2G4olrI

"And this is...we call this an eye lock."

Having been to two Erik Paulson seminars this is basically what he's like. It's a comedy-science show where Paulson demonstrates rapid fire techniques and talks/jokes around about grappling. Sort of akin to watching the grappling version of Mr. Wizard.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Defenestrategy posted:

his feet aren't parallel to each other, this allows him the ability to step easily back forth and to the side.

splits your stance.

your feet are parallel and he is in a split stance under you,
Just to confirm -- split stance is where your feet are lined up front to back, and feet parallel means they're side to side?
I'm getting hung up on feet angle vs feet placement relative to right under my center of mass.

In striking, I'd call these stance too long and too narrow vs too square.

quote:

For this to have a better chance of success, look up my favorite sumo throw Yaguranage, seen below

edit: stupid nhk doesn't like embeds.

edit2: I just noticed that in Judo this is actually kind of annoying to pull off because belts can sometimes be finnicky, but this should work beautifully in your sport because the Jacket you're wearing appears really sturdy in so far as it'll give you a great hand hold to lift from.
Belts can come loose, same as with gis, so it's not as reliable as the sleeves or collar, but I have seen that throw a lot in Bokh highlights, with the throwee balanced up on the throwing leg, balanced, waiting to see if they can land on their feet. Spent some time looking an example (and forgot to post this reply) but couldn't find one.

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

kimbo305 posted:

Just to confirm -- split stance is where your feet are lined up front to back, and feet parallel means they're side to side?
I'm getting hung up on feet angle vs feet placement relative to right under my center of mass.

In striking, I'd call these stance too long and too narrow vs too square.

.

From a striking stand point think American Boxing or Muay Thai, where your hips and shoulders are square forward and one foot is infront of the other.

duckdealer
Feb 28, 2011

Guess I'm probably going to a Judo seminar with Neil Adams. The poster for the event says that due to demand they opened it up to yellow belts.

I am a white belt, but apparently will be allowed to attend.

Quick questions for folks who have been to a Judo seminar before, am I going to die?

butros
Aug 2, 2007

I believe the signs of the reptile master


Eventually yeah

Sherbert Hoover
Dec 12, 2019

Working hard, thank you!
You're like exponentially safer being thrown by black belts than by white belts

Sherbert Hoover
Dec 12, 2019

Working hard, thank you!
I had a white belt try to like invent a throw during uchikomis a while back that was basically a hosed up seio from a standing waki gatame and that was the first time I had to get real stern with someone.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Sherbert Hoover posted:

I had a white belt try to like invent a throw during uchikomis a while back that was basically a hosed up seio from a standing waki gatame and that was the first time I had to get real stern with someone.

Ah so the old school kata version

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

duckdealer posted:

Guess I'm probably going to a Judo seminar with Neil Adams. The poster for the event says that due to demand they opened it up to yellow belts.

I am a white belt, but apparently will be allowed to attend.

Quick questions for folks who have been to a Judo seminar before, am I going to die?

You'll be fine, unless the guy is one of those weirdos who wants you to do a bunch of judo calisthenics/exercises instead of actually teaching technique. Then you will wish for death.

if it's this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85t8cinfNqc

Seems like a nice enough dude.

duckdealer
Feb 28, 2011

Ok that makes sense. I was mostly being a bit silly due to concerns about my lack of Judo ability but the fact that it's being safer to be thrown by a black belt than a white belt makes sense. Thanks all!

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
You're a Judo white belt, but do you know how to do break falls from another martial art? That's the main difference between a white belt and a yellow belt, that the Sensei can be reasonably confident you can do your break falls correctly. If you can get thrown, in a controlled, drill-like setting, and land in a way that you don't hurt yourself, then you know the one make-or-break requirement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbiLot6laks If this look like something you've done in BJJ, Karate, whatever, you're fine. If you've literally never done Judo style throws you might struggle with whatever they're going to be teaching, but not to the point that going is a waste of yours or someone else's time, especially if they're allowing yellow belts - as a yellow bet myself I can tell you they're not expecting them to execute perfect throws lol.

duckdealer
Feb 28, 2011

Jack B Nimble posted:

You're a Judo white belt, but do you know how to do break falls from another martial art? That's the main difference between a white belt and a yellow belt, that the Sensei can be reasonably confident you can do your break falls correctly. If you can get thrown, in a controlled, drill-like setting, and land in a way that you don't hurt yourself, then you know the one make-or-break requirement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbiLot6laks If this look like something you've done in BJJ, Karate, whatever, you're fine. If you've literally never done Judo style throws you might struggle with whatever they're going to be teaching, but not to the point that going is a waste of yours or someone else's time, especially if they're allowing yellow belts - as a yellow bet myself I can tell you they're not expecting them to execute perfect throws lol.

Sweet, thanks for the reply.

I am a purple belt in BJJ, but have only been training Judo a few months.

Had been doing two Judo classes a week but got cut down to one. Then I didn't go at all in September / most of October due to mental health struggles.

Things going much better now so I've done three Judo sessions this week (one class and two privates).

I've actually been to the gym where I train Jiu Jitsu / Judo everyday since November 5th which feels good.

Biggest thing I struggle with in Judo is the cardio. I plan to do a gi BJJ competition on January 27th so Judo is something I plan to put work into.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
Oh yeah, you'll be absolutely fine, wear a Judo top if you have one, I'm sure you've noticed the sleeves are different. Let me know how you like the seminar, I actually have a book of his I bought like twenty years ago when I had the very bad idea of teaching myself martial arts in my first apartment or something.

Edit: Sorry, the book is Judo Unleashed by Neil Ohlenkamp

Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Nov 13, 2023

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

duckdealer posted:

.

Biggest thing I struggle with in Judo is the cardio. .

I also struggle with it and I dont understand how judo dudes all seem to be these endurance freaks. Im going at an easy pace in randori and these dudes keep pushing the pace hard on me so I have to go a little bit harder to meet them where they are, and after a round im sucking wind badly, and these dudes just go hard in the paint multiple rounds in a row. Then we get to the ground and its tranquilo and these guys just get all of their energy sapped out of them.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
My Judo Sensei recommended getting up an hour earlier to do sprint intervals and I have not.

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

Jack B Nimble posted:

My Judo Sensei recommended getting up an hour earlier to do sprint intervals and I have not.


Lol, also lmao, further. Ha.

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Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
Drilling reverse DLR to kiss of the dragon leg reaps and I hit my testicle so hard on my partner's kneecap that I had to sit out for 5 minutes to recover.

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