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mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Popete posted:

The Yankees having a handful of mediocre seasons seems to have completely broken everyone's brain in the FO/media. I wonder what a truly bad Yankee stretch would do to New York. I'm talking something relatively tame like 4 years sub .500 and missing the playoffs.

You know how hard it is to spend as much money as the Yankees do and go under 500? They were an utter and complete joke this year and won 82 games. Being under 500 is relatively meaningless.

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bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

Popete posted:

The Yankees having a handful of mediocre seasons seems to have completely broken everyone's brain in the FO/media. I wonder what a truly bad Yankee stretch would do to New York. I'm talking something relatively tame like 4 years sub .500 and missing the playoffs.
may we all be blessed with finding out some day

BigBallChunkyTime
Nov 25, 2011

Kyle Schwarber: World Series hero, Beefy Lad, better than you.

Illegal Hen

Popete posted:

The Yankees having a handful of mediocre seasons seems to have completely broken everyone's brain in the FO/media. I wonder what a truly bad Yankee stretch would do to New York. I'm talking something relatively tame like 4 years sub .500 and missing the playoffs.

So basically the 80s

ihatepants
Nov 5, 2011

Let the burning of pants commence. These things drive me nuts.



Nodoze posted:

They should be looking at Jung Hoo Lee

Mike Axisa talked about Jung-Hoo Lee in his Patreon post today. His ground ball rates are extremely bad, especially to the pull side. He's got nearly a 60% ground ball rate and he isn't even facing MLB pitching and velocity.



His defense and baserunning are also considered good, not great. Jon Morosi's comparison for him is Ender Inciarte without the defense.

Here's an excerpt from the patreon:

Mike Axisa posted:

I’m less enthusiastic about Lee now than I was coming into this exercise, mostly because that ground ball rate is scary high and the defense doesn’t seem to be highly regarded (even before factoring in the ankle injury). I still think he’s worth pursuing, though he's not longer a must have for me. Lee does have special bat-to-ball ability, and hitters with elite tools tend to be outlier performers, plus he's only 25. He's nine months younger than Florial!

At the same time, it is very hard to be a productive hitter with a ground ball rate like Lee’s, and he did that against KBO pitching. In the last three seasons only two Major Leaguers had a ground ball rate as high as Lee’s 2023 KBO ground ball rate, and they had a 75 wRC+ (Raimel Tapia in 2021) and a 60 wRC+ (Tim Anderson in 2023). His ground ball rate is extremely high.

You don’t want Lee aiming for the short porch every swing, he’s not that kinda hitter, but you do want him to get the ball over the infielders consistently. Lee can be a quality hitter with only 8-10 homers. He’ll probably need to hit a few more line drives though. Are the Yankees a team that can get those additional line drives out of Lee (or any hitter)? I have my doubts.

Lee’s upside might look like the good version of Benintendi. A batting average around .300, few strikeouts, a decent amount of walks, maybe 15 homers, and the occasional steal. That guy is a borderline All-Star in center. The downside is a sub-.350 SLG corner outfielder. Someone who shouldn’t be in the lineup unless he’s saving 20 runs with his glove and/or stealing 40 bags. Indications are Lee is not that kinda runner or defender.

There is more to Lee than what he does on the field. He will open new revenue streams for his MLB team. There will be Korean sponsors, new Korean baseball fans, etc. The Yankees have never had a high profile Korean player, but they’ve had several big name Japanese players. They know exactly how much revenue a player like this can generate. Lee’s value to a franchise will transcend what he does on the field. That absolutely factors into the decision to sign him.

Bottom line, 25-year-old center fielders with 80 contact ability (on the 20-28 scouting scale) are rare, and they’re basically never available for nothing but money. As a left-handed hitter, Lee is an especially good fit for the Yankees. There are red flags, that ground ball tendency is real, but we can get too caught up in the things a player can not do rather than focus on what he can do. Lee has an elite skill, great bloodlines, and youth. The Yankees have to at least see what he and Boras want.

(For what it’s worth, ZiPS projects Lee as a .282/.342/.412 (108 OPS+) hitter and +2.2 WAR player in 2024. Mark Canha had a 108 OPS+ with +2.2 WAR in 2023, though Canha got to that production in a much different way than Lee would.)

xbilkis
Apr 11, 2005

god qb
me
jay hova
I'm glad the Yankees are talking about bunting, because it made me remember the moment when I realized the Yankees actually sucked as much as mcmagic said they did: No. 5 hitter Isiah Kiner-Falefa bunting down 4-0 in the second inning with Earth's Slowest Human on first base + promptly popping into a double play

https://twitter.com/TalkinYanks/status/1692955459982913776

I for one welcome much more of this next season

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

xbilkis posted:

I'm glad the Yankees are talking about bunting, because it made me remember the moment when I realized the Yankees actually sucked as much as mcmagic said they did: No. 5 hitter Isiah Kiner-Falefa bunting down 4-0 in the second inning with Earth's Slowest Human on first base + promptly popping into a double play

https://twitter.com/TalkinYanks/status/1692955459982913776

I for one welcome much more of this next season

I don't think people realize what a rancid pile of poo poo the Yankees were last year.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida

https://twitter.com/nightengalejr/status/1722076831447425287

Legendary Ptarmigan
Sep 21, 2007

Need a light?

Nodoze posted:

Yamamoto is actually a big need, they should be in on him. He's a young international star, something they could stand to have for numerous reasons both off and on the field.

They should be looking at Jung Hoo Lee

I don't hate looking carefully at Yamamoto. I hate doing it at the expense of adding someone(s) to start every day at 3B, LF, and CF or replace a broken DH or potentially broken 1B and/or super-utility guy, which is what will happen if you have only $25 million to fill a ton of holes with veteran free agents.

They have Judge, Torres, Volpe, and Wells/Trevino. You need five more players to put in the lineup. I think Rizzo and LeMahieu will be better, but we won't know until April/May. After that, it is really just question mark after question mark for the rest of the position players. Starting pitching is a tier 3 need for the team, after position players who can hit (1) and bullpen (perennially 2).

Darude - Adam Sandstorm
Aug 16, 2012


lol at "the nautral ebb and flow"

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Legendary Ptarmigan posted:

I don't hate looking carefully at Yamamoto. I hate doing it at the expense of adding someone(s) to start every day at 3B, LF, and CF or replace a broken DH or potentially broken 1B and/or super-utility guy, which is what will happen if you have only $25 million to fill a ton of holes with veteran free agents.

They have Judge, Torres, Volpe, and Wells/Trevino. You need five more players to put in the lineup. I think Rizzo and LeMahieu will be better, but we won't know until April/May. After that, it is really just question mark after question mark for the rest of the position players. Starting pitching is a tier 3 need for the team, after position players who can hit (1) and bullpen (perennially 2).

the way the FA market falls out this year there aren't big ticket hitters who are worth signing. They will need to hit the trade market to improve the lineup. I do think it's reasonable to sign 1 starter be it Yamamoto or E Rod who is another guy I suggested.

Darude - Adam Sandstorm
Aug 16, 2012

I would like Brian Cashman to double down on his previous strategy and run it back from last year. Hell bring back Joey Gallo.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X

Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:

I would like Brian Cashman to double down on his previous strategy and run it back from last year. Hell bring back Joey Gallo.

And make him bunt

R.D. Mangles
Jan 10, 2004


responding to every complaint by yankees fans about how bad the team is by saying lol and good

Darude - Adam Sandstorm
Aug 16, 2012

Eric the Mauve posted:

And make him bunt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyy1NFm1Mgw

LonesomeCrowdedWest
May 8, 2008
How did Varsho not win a gold glove with the highest DRS in the league? Is it because he split time between left and center?

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X
it's because he was the second best center fielder on his team

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

lotta great bunts against the shift here, which is a good argument against the shift ban

LonesomeCrowdedWest
May 8, 2008

Eric the Mauve posted:

it's because he was the second best center fielder on his team

Yeah, he mostly played left, which I thought he might win

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:

Cashman trolling the entirety of baseball cause he's unfireable is really funny

I mean, at some point, the Steinbrenners will fire him. As used as they are to Cashman, they're even more accustomed to shitcanning people publicly.

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Red posted:

I mean, at some point, the Steinbrenners will fire him. As used as they are to Cashman, they're even more accustomed to shitcanning people publicly.

Hal is literally nothing like George.

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

Yeah most of these modern second-generation owners seem to be obsessed with holding costs down and much less interested in winning

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

Legendary Ptarmigan posted:

I don't hate looking carefully at Yamamoto. I hate doing it at the expense of adding someone(s) to start every day at 3B, LF, and CF or replace a broken DH or potentially broken 1B and/or super-utility guy, which is what will happen if you have only $25 million to fill a ton of holes with veteran free agents.

They have Judge, Torres, Volpe, and Wells/Trevino. You need five more players to put in the lineup. I think Rizzo and LeMahieu will be better, but we won't know until April/May. After that, it is really just question mark after question mark for the rest of the position players. Starting pitching is a tier 3 need for the team, after position players who can hit (1) and bullpen (perennially 2).

That assumes signing Yamamoto does block pursuing a hitter. That's a fairly big leap based on assumptions about vague statements about the budget. It also basically assumes that there are 3B, LF, and CFers worth pursuing. Which I'm not really sure there are, at least not ones where the money Yamamoto would cost is a bigger issue than something else. You get better where you can. Reality plays a significant role.

Red posted:

I mean, at some point, the Steinbrenners will fire him. As used as they are to Cashman, they're even more accustomed to shitcanning people publicly.

A person isn't their father and if anything the Hal era feels like its deliberately steered against the chaotic and cruel hiring/firing polices associated with the name. Boone was unlikely to be fired because the Yankees haven't fired any manager mid contract since Showalter.

Certainly Cashman's tenure in the Bronx will come to an end some day and it could well be soon. Cashman signed a four year deal in December in parallel with the Judge signing. My guess is he'll play those years out unless the Yankees fall further in the interim. And if they can't fix their problems by the end of his contract that will probably be the end.

Nodoze
Aug 17, 2006

If it's only for a night I can live without you

mcmagic posted:

the way the FA market falls out this year there aren't big ticket hitters who are worth signing. They will need to hit the trade market to improve the lineup. I do think it's reasonable to sign 1 starter be it Yamamoto or E Rod who is another guy I suggested.

I can't believe you of all people would say sign erod, gross. Bring back Montgomery

MrMidnight
Aug 3, 2006

Yankees lol

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute
I know I'm late but I've been recovering from surgery for the last 3 days and this morning is the first time I am able to process the Counsell news fully lucid:

lol and, dare I say it, lmao.

As a known Ross hater, even I'm impressed at the swift and unexpected knife Jed jammed in his back on this one. Not exactly shedding tears, but that's ruthless. Wonder if that's the end of his managing career or somebody else gives him a shot. Probably at a minimum can swing a 1B coach job somewhere if he wants.

Anyway I look forward to a manager who actually utilizes good rookies and knows how a bullpen works. Also go throw money at all star players too, Cubs.

Well Played Mauer
Jun 1, 2003

We'll always have Cabo
Cashman playing the besieged guy when he’s done Jack poo poo with the richest team in the western hemisphere in the last 14 years is very Trump in Georgia energy.

Having a bad year is one thing but this loving arrogant gaslighting doublespeak is insulting to a point where I’d consider rooting for another team if even one were run by people less bad.

The Yankees haven’t even been fun to watch since 2019 or so. They’re boring and unsuccessful and the failson and his muppet get defensive?

rickiep00h
Aug 16, 2010

BATDANCE


bawfuls posted:

Yeah most of these modern second-generation owners seem to be obsessed with holding costs down and much less interested in winning

What I wouldn't give for a Bill Veeck (Jr.) again.

quote:

As Bill Veeck related in his autobiography, Veeck as in Wreck, his father Bill Sr., who was president and general manager of the Chicago Cubs, had hired Hornsby, and soon disposed of him when the usual problems surfaced. Some years later, when the junior Veeck hired Hornsby to manage his St. Louis Browns for a time, his widowed mother wrote him a letter asking, "What makes you think you're any smarter than your Daddy was?"

Bismack Billabongo
Oct 9, 2012

New Love Glow
All teams are bad. Go cards tho

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Nodoze posted:

I can't believe you of all people would say sign erod, gross. Bring back Montgomery

Why are you making GBS threads on ERod? He's a lefty who has been consistent his whole career and has proven he can pitch well in the AL East

yea ok
Jul 27, 2006

As a fan I'd be pretty pumped that my GM and owner seem to have a plan in place. Cashman needs another year or 5 to see the plan through. 300 million is a poo poo load of money and scrappy teams like the Diamondbacks and Rays have proven that you don't need to spend to compete. The future is bright in the Bronx.

Tatsuta Age
Apr 21, 2005

so good at being in trouble


Bismack Billabongo posted:

All teams are bad. Go cards tho

uhhhhhh no

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X

Sydin posted:

I know I'm late but I've been recovering from surgery for the last 3 days and this morning is the first time I am able to process the Counsell news fully lucid:

lol and, dare I say it, lmao.

As a known Ross hater, even I'm impressed at the swift and unexpected knife Jed jammed in his back on this one. Not exactly shedding tears, but that's ruthless. Wonder if that's the end of his managing career or somebody else gives him a shot. Probably at a minimum can swing a 1B coach job somewhere if he wants.

Anyway I look forward to a manager who actually utilizes good rookies and knows how a bullpen works. Also go throw money at all star players too, Cubs.

Ross will absolutely manage again, and probably soon

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

https://twitter.com/mike_petriello/status/1722259719384178902

Oh boy

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute
Clearly the only way for the Yankees to reassert their dominance as the greatest team in baseball is to build a rotation around pitcher wins.

Kevlar v2.0
Dec 25, 2003

=^•⩊•^=


Judge should definitely change his swing to try to hit fewer fly balls

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

=^-^=

Sydin posted:

Clearly the only way for the Yankees to reassert their dominance as the greatest team in baseball is to build a rotation around pitcher wins.

Teams with more pitcher wins have historically had more team wins.

Nodoze
Aug 17, 2006

If it's only for a night I can live without you

mcmagic posted:

Why are you making GBS threads on ERod? He's a lefty who has been consistent his whole career and has proven he can pitch well in the AL East

Cause he isn't that good?


I actually don't feel as bad about this as it looks on the surface, having a team full of .230 hitters really worked out well. The ability to hit for average has been devalued and I actually think it should be emphasized more now than ever due to the fact that everyone strikes out like crazy.

Nodoze fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Nov 8, 2023

Forrest on Fire
Nov 23, 2012


Aaron Judge wants to become Rod Carew so what

zoux
Apr 28, 2006


Player-manager right here

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Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

STAC Goat posted:

A person isn't their father and if anything the Hal era feels like its deliberately steered against the chaotic and cruel hiring/firing polices associated with the name. Boone was unlikely to be fired because the Yankees haven't fired any manager mid contract since Showalter.

Certainly Cashman's tenure in the Bronx will come to an end some day and it could well be soon. Cashman signed a four year deal in December in parallel with the Judge signing. My guess is he'll play those years out unless the Yankees fall further in the interim. And if they can't fix their problems by the end of his contract that will probably be the end.

Hal on 2024: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-A7dsnNZZU

Hal does seem a lot more... stable. Maybe I'd seen interviews where he came off as more mercurial.

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